buddy 50 sat for 6 years... not starting duh (running now)

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:53 am

Well like the title says, I have a buddy 50 that sat for about 6 years. The scoot currently has about 900 miles on it (yes nine hundred) and I recovered it from my mother in laws storage. She cannot use it anymore and it was given to me. I put the majority of those miles on it when it was new and it drove like a champ. Obviously after being neglected and sitting for that long period of time, it will not start. I only started trying to get this working last week and sofar I have done the following;

-Totally disassembled and thoroughly cleaned the carb and all associated components (this was the worst carb I had ever seen... I spent 3 hours getting it all clean...)
-drained, removed and cleaned fuel tank
-removed and cleaned fuel petcock
-removed and cleaned fuel filter
-removed and cleaned fuel lines and vacuum return line
-cleaned air filter

I have not replaced the battery and it is totally kaput. I am also considering tossing in a new universal in line fuel filter and possibly fuel petcock.

The scoot will Kickstart and then die. It will only start if I spray some go go juice in the carb with the airbox open. I can keep it going by spraying a little more into the carb every few seconds but it is still clearly not getting fuel from the tank based off these characteristics.

I am wondering if the totally dead battery is affecting the auto choke or ignition somehow. I am unaware to the specifics of the electrical systems on these things.

Also when I took the carb apart I failed to not position of the auto choke and as such I am worried it may be oriented in an incorrect position thus further complicating my futile efforts.

Any help or input is greatly appreciated, I am looking forward to getting this little guy back on the road!

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:56 am

Get a new battery and then see what happens. Is the gas tank rusted?

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:59 am

No rust but it was a little gummy. All clean now. I also tossed in a new spark plug just to be safe. It was only $2.50 but I failed to snag a fuel filter while I was at the store....

Will the battery affect it's ability to maintain idle or is it a totally seperate system just for the lights and starter?

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:28 am

Meis wrote: The scoot will Kickstart and then die. It will only start if I spray some go go juice in the carb with the airbox open. I can keep it going by spraying a little more into the carb every few seconds but it is still clearly not getting fuel from the tank based off these characteristics.

I am wondering if the totally dead battery is affecting the auto choke or ignition somehow. I am unaware to the specifics of the electrical systems on these things.

Also when I took the carb apart I failed to not position of the auto choke and as such I am worried it may be oriented in an incorrect position thus further complicating my futile efforts.

The kickstart-and-die thing sounds like an issue I had with an auto choke, aka bystarter on a small Honda. The bystarter needle was pinched in the carburetor body, effectively keeping it permanently closed. When you took the bystarter off of the carburetor, did it have a brass sleeve and needle on one end?

With a dead battery, there's little difference in bystarter operation. The enrichment air passage and jet are open when the engine is cold. In order to have the bystarter close the passage, you need to switch on the ignition and give the battery a little while to warm the bystarter and close it off, or start the engine and let the bystarter do it's thing while powered by the stator. The orientation of the bystarter isn't quite critical. Having a decent O-ring on it where it plugs into the carburetor body is likely more important.

For fuel delivery, pull the fuel and vacuum lines off of the carburetor. Put the fuel line in a fuel-proof container and draw on the vacuum line with a MityVac or your own lungs (not recommended if your petcock's vaccuum diaphragm has a leak). You should get a brisk stream of fuel in short order.

If that checks out OK, reconnect the fuel line to the carb, then route the carburetor bowl drain tube into your fuel-proof container. Open the fuel drain screw on the carburetor bowl by a turn or two. Draw on the vaccuum line again and see if the fuel flows freely out from the carburetor drain tube.

If that checks out OK, your mixture screw might be way out of whack. When you disassembled the carburetor to clean it, did you just remove the mix screw, or did you gently turn it home and count the number of turns it that it was set before removing it? If no, you can probably turn it in fully and then turn it out 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 turns and try starting it again.

Bringing them back can be a challenge sometimes, but that first ride after fixing it is always one of the sweetest!

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:20 pm

Quick update.

Okay so I plan to get a new battery because this one has been dead for so long.

I decided to test the fuel system just to make sure it was flowing. I removed the vacuum hose from the intake manifold and hooked it up to a source of vacuum (my mouth lol) to see if fuel would flow from the fuel line disconnected from the carb. To my surprise, I got a great flow of fuel once hooked up to vacuum! I suppose this rules out any issues with the fueling before the carburetor.

As it sits now I can let it sit for a few minutes and it'll Kickstart on the 1st or 2nd try. After that it'll run for a few seconds and then die.

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:26 pm

I bet it's the battery. Maybe put this one on a tender overnight and see if it holds a charge.
Tender Jr. Can be bought for around 30 bucks at Wal-Mart, etc.

If you don't have a tender, take the battery to someplace like Auto Zone where they can test it and see if it holds a charge or sell you a new one for cheap.

Sometimes it is as simple as that.

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:32 pm

az_slynch wrote:
If that checks out OK, reconnect the fuel line to the carb, then route the carburetor bowl drain tube into your fuel-proof container. Open the fuel drain screw on the carburetor bowl by a turn or two. Draw on the vaccuum line again and see if the fuel flows freely out from the carburetor drain tube.

Bringing them back can be a challenge sometimes, but that first ride after fixing it is always one of the sweetest!

Well I checked this (thank you so much for the input by the way!) And I got NOTHING out of the drain... I cleaned it all very thoroughly when I had it all apart so what gives?

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:35 pm

Just reread that again AZ and I am dumb..... I undid the bowl drain plug by 3 full turns and nothing came out but I could smell gas..... then I realized that I needed to check the tube not the screw...

For some reason I thought fuel would come out of the screw hole. I just tried again and checked the tube and sure enough it is flowing freely through that with the drain opened.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:53 pm

OK, so we have fuel to the bowl. The cleanliess of the pilot circuit and the setting of the mixture screw are the next candidates.

Check the mix setting as I previously described. If you haven't touched it yet, turn it all the way in, counting the number of turns until it stops. Unscrew it and clean the screw. Make sure you remove the spring and seal if present. Blast the ports withcarb clean or compressed air and check the ports and pilot holes with a bright flashlight. If clear, put the mix screw (spring and o-ring if present) back in and turn it in until it stops. Don't force it! Back the screw out by the number of turns you counted before removing it and your mix will be back where it started.

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:43 pm

I got it set just like it was after cleaning and it is still doing the same thing... I'm considering hooking it up to a car battery (with the car off) to see if having any sort of electricity will help the situation.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:53 am

Have you checked, cleaned, re-gapped or changed the spark plug?

Check the cable connections from the wiring harness to the coil too.

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:58 am

Spark plug was replaced with a new NGK unit. Also, I have verified spark... and shocked myself in the process haha

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:55 pm

Have you tried a compression check on the motor?

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:44 am

I have not tried a compression check yet as I do not have any tooling to facilitate that. However, in the last few days, when I Kickstart it it'll run longer than the time before if I let it sit for a while in between starts. My voltage at the battery fluctuates like crazy when it's running and it'll go down to zero volts and then die. Bear in mind that this is on the old dead battery. The new one supposedly was delivered today but I am on shift at the firestation until 0600 tomorrow...

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:22 am

Meis wrote:I have not tried a compression check yet as I do not have any tooling to facilitate that. However, in the last few days, when I Kickstart it it'll run longer than the time before if I let it sit for a while in between starts. My voltage at the battery fluctuates like crazy when it's running and it'll go down to zero volts and then die. Bear in mind that this is on the old dead battery. The new one supposedly was delivered today but I am on shift at the firestation until 0600 tomorrow...

Put the new battery in!!!!!

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:56 am

Oh I will as soon as I'm off shift..... typical that it is delivered on my 24 hr shift

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:31 am

Okay so I got the new battery in and installed and it started right up using the electric starter. And then it died a few seconds later just like it has been doing. I'm pretty stumped here. I took the carburetor back out to clean it yet again just to make sure no deposits or gumming plugged up the Jets and it was fine but I cleaned it anayway. I am worried I may have the carburetor adjusted incorrectly... what are the factory settings for the air/fuel mixer and the idle speed? I noticed that the bigger jet inside the carb appears to be adjustable, is this true?

As it sits currently, I have the big jet screwed all the way in as it was when I initially took it apart the first time. The idle speed is also set like it was but I failed to take note of the mixer... so after some research I have it set to 2 full counter clockwise rotations from all the way in.

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:08 pm

Thought there may be an issue with the auto choke but I got 4.2 ohms when I put my voltmeter on it. Is there a certain orientation that this must be in on the carb? I noticed the retainer plate has graduated markings on it but I did not see that the choke itself has any markings.

Also, I looked underneath as I was taking the exhaust off to check for restrictions and I saw lots of oil on the crankcase, exhaust, and others. I also notoced oil on the topside of the motor around the oil pump area.The scoot doesn't ever leak off onto the ground so I'm not sure if the motor needs a rebuild or not.... I wish I had a compression tester...

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:40 pm

So my reasoning for dropping the exhaust was to see if there was a restriction causing the motor to not flow properly. I was actually expecting oil. When I dropped the exhaust I got a few drops but nothing substantial. I figured that wasn't an issue so I bolted it back up and then started it up to check for leaks knowing full well that the buddy would die in a matter of seconds as it has been doing since I actually got it to start up.

Well.... it didn't die... it idled and idled and idled. After about 5 mins it died and I started it right back up. It didn't die until I manually shut it down about 1.5 hours later. I aired up the tires and took it for a spin around the neighborhood a few times. It smokes white smoke like crazy and it feels like it bogs down starting off from a start but it runs!

Not sure if the excessive smoke or bogging down are issues but only time will tell. It has been sitting for over 6 years without so much as being looked at and now it lives again!

cummingsjc · Post by **cummingsjc** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:00 am

Meis wrote:Not sure if the excessive smoke or bogging down are issues but only time will tell. It has been sitting for over 6 years without so much as being looked at and now it lives again!

I have been told by a scooter mechanic at the scooter repair shop where I worked for about 9-months that 2-stroke scooters that sit for long periods of time usually blow excessive smoke for about 20-miles of use before it settles down. Ride it around the neighborhood for a while and if it doesn't die on you take it for a longer, multi-mile ride.

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:51 am

cummingsjc wrote:
Meis wrote:Not sure if the excessive smoke or bogging down are issues but only time will tell. It has been sitting for over 6 years without so much as being looked at and now it lives again!
I have been told by a scooter mechanic at the scooter repair shop where I worked for about 9-months that 2-stroke scooters that sit for long periods of time usually blow excessive smoke for about 20-miles of use before it settles down. Ride it around the neighborhood for a while and if it doesn't die on you take it for a longer, multi-mile ride.

Thank you for that! I noticed after I rode it again the the smoke was substantially less than when I rode earlier. I took it as my mind playing tricks on me lol

And we are practically neighbors! It's a loooooooong ride on 30 from Huntsville to college station though!

cummingsjc · Post by **cummingsjc** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:28 am

Meis wrote:
cummingsjc wrote:
Meis wrote:Not sure if the excessive smoke or bogging down are issues but only time will tell. It has been sitting for over 6 years without so much as being looked at and now it lives again!
I have been told by a scooter mechanic at the scooter repair shop where I worked for about 9-months that 2-stroke scooters that sit for long periods of time usually blow excessive smoke for about 20-miles of use before it settles down. Ride it around the neighborhood for a while and if it doesn't die on you take it for a longer, multi-mile ride.
Thank you for that! I noticed after I rode it again the the smoke was substantially less than when I rode earlier. I took it as my mind playing tricks on me lol

And we are practically neighbors! It's a loooooooong ride on 30 from Huntsville to college station though!

A very long ride on a 50cc scooter, for sure. I just got the Black Cat and Buddy and both are works in progress before I can do some serious riding on them (and I am going to try to sell the Buddy to make a few dollars). My other scooter is a 500cc MP3 so it is the more obvious choice for longer distance riding.

Clydeo · Post by **Clydeo** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:59 am

Congratulations on the resurrection of your scoot! It's a great feeling when a "dead" bike roars (ok, purrs in your case) back to life!

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:15 pm

Yeah it feels like it's running better than it did before it went into storage! Lots of pep after I readjusted the carb properly. I almost forgot how much fun these things are!

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:34 am

Quick update, the buddy has been running almost flawlessly since revival. I say almost because the front brake master cylinder took a crap (cylinder got stuck inwards but brakes did not engage). I got that changed in a jiffy and bled the system afterwards.... duh

And yesterday I hit a bump going into the driveway at my firestation where I work and it started to die while accellerating... it would idle just fine but if I gave it ANY throttle whatsoever the scoot would bog and die.

Now having the experience and knowledge of the buddy carburetor, I quickly assumed my main jet was partially or fully blocked. I ran some seafoam through to see if it would clear it up but that didn't work. So I pulled the carb and to my surprise there was a rock blocking the main jet. Yes.... a rock, as in a stone off the ground. No freaking clue how that would have gotten in there. I inspected the inside of my tank with a small inspection camera and the tank is clean as a whistle...

Anywho, the scoot is really liking being driven on the regular. After sitting for 6 years, the 10 miles to and 10 miles from work every 3rd day is doing it some good.

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:12 pm

Hooray! Glad you got it running!

Meis · Post by **Meis** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:18 pm

Whimscootie wrote:Hooray! Glad you got it running!

It is running GREAT! It is now my daily driver and I have put a couple hundred miles on it without a single hiccup.

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:24 pm

The little Met I just got sat for years, neglected. Only 714 miles on her and she is like new. The Honda dealership ''over-hauled'' her before I got her. Scoots, like dogs, need exercise and fresh air and TLC!

Camperdog · Post by **Camperdog** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:24 pm

The time honored tradition of doing your own work and doing it right!

Modern Buddy

buddy 50 sat for 6 years... not starting duh (running now)

buddy 50 sat for 6 years... not starting duh (running now)

Re: buddy 50 sat for 6 years... not starting duh

Re: buddy 50 sat for 6 years... not starting duh

Congrats