Buying a Damaged Buddy 170i and Price Check--advice wanted!

[csbl]

I'm considering buying a 2014 170i with less than 200 miles on it. Price is $1200. The bike was dropped, though, and has significant scratching on the front faring, plus the body panel and the plastic panel have popped apart on one side, and they're now mis-alligned by about an inch. I'm sorry I don't know the right vocabulary for that!

You can get a basic idea of the damage from the craigslist post, on the 2nd to last picture, and I'd say it's actually a bit worse than it looks in the shot:

https://hartford.craigslist.org/mcy/5661174540.html

I'd love advice on this. Would you buy a Buddy with that kind of damage? How's the price? Do you think it's fixable, and if so what would it cost? If I don't fix it, and just deal with the cosmetics, is there a safety issue? Would it pass inspection?

I'm also considering a 2007 Buddy 125, great condition with 3k miles, for $1100. How does that sound in terms of price?

I'm located in Massachusetts, if that helps.

Thank you so much for your guidance, and really looking forward to riding my "new" Buddy, whichever that winds up being!

[DeeDee]

I've owned two 125s, and I currently have a 170i. Is the 125 in good shape?

125 is an incredible scooter. I like the carb and the kickstart. I wouldn't buy 170i with the damage. Price the replacement panels. Maybe you can get the 170 for $800. People are put off when they see damage like that regardless of the miles.

$1100 for the 125 with that mileage would be a good buy in Colorado. Ride them both. I think the 125 is a smoother machine.

[Dooglas]

I would also say that the 125 sounds like the more interesting possibility. The question with the 170i is whether the damage is only panels, or if there is damage to the frame or suspension. Repairs get expensive in a hurry if we are talking about more than a couple pieces of plastic.

[cummingsjc]

I have had very limited experience on a Buddy 125 and no experience on a Buddy 170 so I am not qualified to tell you which one you should buy. Many folks on here seem to think the 125 is a better scooter for the original price but these bikes are effectively the same price minus the cost of repairs to the 170. My assumption is that a stock 170 would be a little bit faster off the line and have a higher top end speed than a stock 125 but someone else with more experience than I can weigh in on this.

I would ask if you are mechanically inclined with time to replace the panels yourself? If you can do the repair yourself (which shouldn't be that hard IF it is just damage to the body), the replacement panels aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of things. However, I would definitely take the bike for a ride to see if it rides correctly and also pay a qualified mechanic to give it the once over to see if it is just cosmetic damage. And in my last job as a scooter mechanic intern, we saw lots of folks using scooters significantly more damaged than this as the daily transportation.

[csbl]

Thank you so much for your replies!

Unfortunately, I can't take the 170i to a mechanic, since it has an expired registration. The bike is almost two hours from my house, and I don't think I can manage to rent a truck, get the bike, and find a mechanic to look at it all by tomorrow night, which is when its owner is showing it to someone else. Maybe I could figure that all out, but it seems a little unlikely. I did ride it, though, and it seems to ride just fine.

BUT---I was riding it around in this fellow's apartment complex, so I only took it up to about 30mph. Is it possible that I wouldn't notice the impact of the damage until I got up to higher speeds? Dooglas, is there any way to know if the damage is only to the plastic, or if it's impacted the frame/suspension, as you mentioned? Would I be able to tell that by riding, or only by taking it to a mechanic?

I agree that folks will be put off by the damage to the scooter, and I do wonder about re-sale value....But I think it's a really good price for the 170i. Glad to hear that, at least in CO, it's a pretty good price for the 125, too.

Has anyone owned both the 125 and the 170i, and might be able to tell me if the difference in power winds up feeling really significant? I'd like to be able to commute with either scooter, although I wouldn't be depending on it for my main transportation, more like when it's nice out and when I'm feeling like it kind of thing. My commute is about a half an hour one way, on roads posted 35mph and 45mph. Could the 125 handle that?

Thank you, again, and have a wonderful holiday!!

[cummingsjc]

The best way to determine if there was any other damage to the bike besides the plastic panels (besides using a certified mechanic) would be a visual inspection up under the front wheel to see if the frame looked straight and to see if the forks looked like they were at the right angle. Additionally, I would take the bike for an extended ride and slowly work my way up to work up to the 50-60 mph range. Any frame misalignment should be noticeable at those speeds. Is there and other damage to the bike on the rear panels. How did the bike get the damage, at least according to the owner? Is the bike a salvage or clean title?

From what I know from my limited experience on riding a 125 and everything I have read on this forum, a stock 125 would absolutely be able to handle your commuting needs, as you described them. It can realistically achieve 50+ miles per hour and has better power than many other 125 cc scooters. If you bought it and it was in good condition, you would not likely be disappointed. The 170 is fuel injected so it might handle the Massachusetts cold winters a bit better (both starting up in colder weather and any extended sitting due to said cold weather). However, 8 understand the 125 to be the more "tuneable' of the two if you want to mod your scooter.

Hopefully, someone with experience on both can better weigh in on the pros and cons of both scooters in stock configuration.

[csbl]

The bike has a clean title...I don't think the owner ever reported it to the insurance company.

He said (and I believe) that the damage happened going about 10 mph when turning a corner by his house. I guess he was just first learning how to ride, and didn't anticipate the power of the acceleration, hit a curb, and the bike went down.

[cummingsjc]

The bike has a clean title...I don't think the owner ever reported it to the insurance company.

He said (and I believe) that the damage happened going about 10 mph when turning a corner by his house. I guess he was just first learning how to ride, and didn't anticipate the power of the acceleration, hit a curb, and the bike went down.

Ironically, this seems to be the case for many scooters out there. If you are on Craigslist enough looking at scooters, you will see lots of low mileage scooters with some body damage from folks that bought the scooter for themselves or a family member thinking that they are some sort of toy rather than a serious means of transportation. Eventually, these things bit you back if you don't take them seriously enough. In my experience this attitude is typified by the fact that I often see folks riding scooter riders wearing shorts, t-shirts, and sandals (and here in Texas, no helmets) as if they won't get hurt "because it's ONLY a scooter".

[Dooglas]

BUT---I was riding it around in this fellow's apartment complex, so I only took it up to about 30mph. Is it possible that I wouldn't notice the impact of the damage until I got up to higher speeds? Dooglas, is there any way to know if the damage is only to the plastic, or if it's impacted the frame/suspension, as you mentioned? Would I be able to tell that by riding, or only by taking it to a mechanic?

It doesn't sound to me like you have the experience to evaluate the extent of possible damage. If it were me, I'd go with the 125. The 170i has a bit more torque and is fuel injected, but the two are very similar scooters. The simpler carbed system of the 125 makes it easier to repair and probably a better choice as an older used bike. We have had our 125 for 9 years and it has been a model of reliability.

[DeeDee]

If the damage is isolated to the front side panel, you don't see any damage on the front fender, wheel or bar ends, his story is probably true and it went down on a low speed slide. I would take it out on an open street where you can get it up to 50 for a minute or more. Does it ride straight, does it stop correctly? Damage is probably cosmetic.

That being said, IMO you should go for the 125. Is this your first scooter? How much do you weigh? I've put right around 5,000 miles each on a 125 and a 170i. I honestly think the 125 is the better scooter all things considered. If the majority of your riding is limited to under 45mph, the 125 is more than enough. The 125 with a 200 pound rider can do 60mph on a straight away.

You go out for a ride one day, and the 125 won't start. Not a whole lot to it in terms of figuring it out. The 125 is a solid design based on an engine with over 40 years of refinement. It is simple and bullet proof.

If you have problems with the 170i, you're likely at the mercy of a $100 an hour scooter shop that may or may not know what they are doing.

[sc00ter]

csbl, you dont know anyone that rides any power 2 wheeler that would go with you to look at the 170i? If it seems like a bargain to you, then you need to find someone to go with you that knows 2 wheel rides to help you find any hidden damage. If the other person buys it instead then its fate, and someone else's problem to repair. I keep a Buddy 125 as a back-up/loaner/fun use ride. It has never failed me and is plenty quick for whatever I have thrown at it. Easy to work on and is proven reliable.

[csbl]

Thank you all for your advice!!

I think I'm going to go with the 125, since that seems to be the consensus here. It sounds like I definitely shouldn't buy the 170i without having a mechanic give it a once over, and that's a complicated proposition given that it's not registered and is two hours away!

I called a local mechanic yesterday to pose the question to him--which to buy, how much the damage might cost to fix, etc, and he agreed with all of you, and said to go with the 125. But he also said that, even with the 125, I should be planning to replace the tires as soon as I buy it. He said that, with a 9 year old bike, the tires absolutely need to be replaced, and that people should be replacing their tires every other season.

That sounds like a lot to me, and is an immediate expense I wasn't anticipating with the 125. Obviously my first priority is to be safe, and so if they need to be replaced that's what I'll do, but it did surprise me. Does anyone have a take on this?

Finally, if I buy the 125, I don't think I'm going to take it to a mechanic either. It seems like it's in great shape, clean title, no accidents, rides fine, etc. I know it was taken in last summer for a tune-up, and passed inspection about a month ago. I understand that I'm taking on some risk by not taking it to a mechanic, but I'm leaning towards doing it anyway given the logistical nightmare of trying to get it to one before I purchase. I wonder, though, are there safety issues here that I'm not thinking of? IE: If I buy this bike and ride it, without having it looked at, is that a terrible, no good, very bad idea, or is it something that people often do?

Thanks again for your help. I'm clearly a newbie, and trying to walk the fine line between excitement, responsibility, and the inevitable unknowns of a new purchase. You've been incredibly helpful!

[cummingsjc]

The general consensus seems to be that tires on motorcycles should be replaced no less than every 5-6 years regardless of mileage due to the potential deterioration of the rubber over time due to changes in humidity and temperature. Over time, the rubber hardens and that causes it to break down when being ridden. I personally would think about changing the tires out with a pair of Michelin tires or another name brand. The stock tires aren't the greatest to begin with and if the have hardened over time they will offer less grip while cornering than a newer tire (and you might end up doing a low side at 10+ mph like the guy selling the 170).

As for your decision to not have the 125 checked out by a qualified mechanic, only you can make that decision based on your comfort level with the seller, visual inspection of the bike, and how much risk versus money saved you are willing to take. One of the prime motivations for you seems to be keeping costs down. Is this your first scooter or motorcycle? Are you properly licensed in Massachusetts to ride a Buddy 125? Have you taken a Motorcycle Safety Course? Unfortunately, there are going to be a number of start up costs like proper riding gear (helmet, jacket, gloves, boots, etc) as well as registration and insurance that immediately come to mind as well as long term costs like regular preventative and occasional corrective maintenance. Being thrifty is a virtue but being cheap is not.

[sc00ter]

Note that the Buddy 125 (and scooters in general) are pretty easy to work on. With YouTube and awesome forums at the ready you could learn how to do pretty much anything yourself. IF the tires need to be replaced it should cost no more than $100-$150 for both wheels total with the wheels off the scoot (you take them off yourself and carry them in). I say IF because if there is no visible dry rot or cracking in the rubber I personally would just run with the tires that are on it. Tires are around $30-$60 each and to get them mounted should be $20 each. Not everyone trashes scooters, so if there is no visible damage on the 125, then go for it. Things to note: if it was loved and it is the original owner it should have BOTH/2 keys for the ignition, the owners manual and the tires should be at proper pressure at ambient temp unless it has not been ridden in awhile because the owner got a car or bike now. Buy and enjoy, its as simple as that!

[csbl]

Thanks, again.

It sounds like getting it looked at by a mechanic is ideal, but maybe not absolutely essential, and that folks have some differing opinions on tires, which is kind of what I imagined. I'm leaning towards getting the 125 whether I can get it looked at or not, but I did check out the tires myself, and no dry rot, cracks, etc. (at least that I could see), and the tread depth looked fine.

In answer to your question, yes, I am trying to be frugal, but not overly so. I understand there are lots of start up costs, and I've certainly factored gear and insurance/registration into my budget, it was just the immediate brand new tires I hadn't thought about.

It's my first scooter, but I've already taken the Motorcycle Safety Course, and have gotten my motorcycle endorsement. That was step #1!

[DeeDee]

The general consensus seems to be that tires on motorcycles should be replaced no less than every 5-6 years regardless of mileage

This is a load of BS that was started by someone with more money than brains.

If your tires show no visible signs of duress and are holding air like they should, you are stupid to replace a 6 year old tire that still has good tread.

Save your money for groceries.

[cummingsjc]

The general consensus seems to be that tires on motorcycles should be replaced no less than every 5-6 years regardless of mileage

This is a load of BS that was started by someone with more money than brains.

If your tires show no visible signs of duress and are holding air like they should, you are stupid to replace a 6 year old tire that still has good tread.

Save your money for groceries.

Although I respect your opinion, I have seen this as a concern expressed many times by folks with decades of motorcycle riding experience on several different forums of which I am a member. It doesn't mean they are right, just that they have this opinion. I did not say it was gospel, that at the 5-6 year mark the tire magically go bad. I just indicated that it seems to be the answer that I have read a lot. Particularly since the 125 that he is potentially going to buy has low miles, approximately 3,000 miles, for a 2007, I would be leary of tire issues. This doesn't mean there are any, but I personally would rather pay a little extra money up front to know the tires are good than to then to find out on a ride that they are not.

[cummingsjc]

I realize that Michelin has a vested interest in folks replacing tires as frequently as possible, but here is their opinion on when to replace tires:
http://motorcycle.michelinman.com/advic ... e-my-tires

[DeeDee]

That article by Michelin says nothing about throwing out a good tire because it is 5 years old.

The 6 reasons they give are spot on regardless of age of tire.

I'd like a poll of how many of these self proclaimed experts telling you to part with your hard earned money to replace a tire because it is 6 years old have actually seen a tire fail.

[cummingsjc]

That article by Michelin says nothing about throwing out a good tire because it is 5 years old.

The 6 reasons they give are spot on regardless of age of tire.

I'd like a poll of how many of these self proclaimed experts telling you to part with your hard earned money to replace a tire because it is 6 years old have actually seen a tire fail.

The article also stated that after 5-years your tires should be professionally inspected for deterioration. Regardless, we can disagree on this.

[iwannascoot]

Quoted from the Michelin article, "As a precaution, any tire which has not been replaced after 10 years must be changed, even if its general condition seems good and it has not reached the limit of wear."

Billy

[thumper650]

I had a Buddy 170i and yes, the fuel injection was great in the cold weather. As for tires, the reason I sold it was the itty bitty tires on the Buddy made the pot hole riddled streets here unbearable.
Personally I'd look for something with larger tires like a Hooligan, or if you've got your heart set on a buddy just make sure you ride over some bumps on your test drive to see if you can stand it.

I think you said the 170i has a clean title, but if it doesn't don't buy it. I've heard salvage titles on bikes in MA is a total pain.
Good luck and keep us updated!