(Buddy 170i) Battery is fine, but scoot is completely dead

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Chikazz
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(Buddy 170i) Battery is fine, but scoot is completely dead

Post by Chikazz »

Hi there, so I replaced the battery in my 170i, but it won't do anything. Lights won't come on, ignition does absolutely nothing, it's as if the battery doesn't exist.

I called roadside, the guy who came checked the battery (He said it's charged and fine) and checked the fuse in the battery box as well as the fuses under the front cowl. All fine. Since nothing happens, not even the lights come on, there must be a wiring problem not too far from the battery, but we couldn't find it.

My service shop is closed today, so I was hoping someone might have an idea I can try in the meantime. Thanks.
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Wertles
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Post by Wertles »

A little bit more information is needed. Were you having this same issue before you swapped the battery? Have you checked to see if all the cables are properly secured and tight to the battery? A quick way to see if you have power past the battery is to plug something into the 12V socket. That has power 100% of the time whether or not the key is on.
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Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

I was not having this issue before I swapped them (EDIT: At least, I don't think so? The battery died on me a few times in a few days, but it jumped fine until the last time, then it was completely dead and the jump didn't work. I suppose it's possible it wasn't really dead that last time, it was simply this issue popping up? That's why I replaced it. I thought it was shot). I don't know what you mean by "Plug something into the 12v socket" Where is that? I don't have a battery charger anymore, so I don't think I can do that. The guy who came from roadside was pretty thorough. He checked the installation, tested the battery, checked the fuses, etc.
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Syd
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Post by Syd »

Did you check the kill switch?
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Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

Yes. Several times. I did everything I could think of.
paracer
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Post by paracer »

The 12 volt outlet is on the opposite side of the steering column from the ignition switch.

If you still have power there, the wiring may have failed at the kill switch.

The good news is that the fix is probably fairly simple. Nothing catastrophic.
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jrsjr
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Post by jrsjr »

Chikazz wrote:I was not having this issue before I swapped them (EDIT: At least, I don't think so? The battery died on me a few times in a few days, but it jumped fine until the last time, then it was completely dead and the jump didn't work. I suppose it's possible it wasn't really dead that last time, it was simply this issue popping up? That's why I replaced it. I thought it was shot). I don't know what you mean by "Plug something into the 12v socket" Where is that? I don't have a battery charger anymore, so I don't think I can do that. The guy who came from roadside was pretty thorough. He checked the installation, tested the battery, checked the fuses, etc.
This is what I see when I read your post. Be absolutely certain to mention that to whoever ends up troubleshooting your electrics. That person should then ask you another question which is, "Was the car/truck that you jumped from running when you did the jump?" Just a reminder, if you jump your scooter off a car/truck, the car/truck should NOT be running. I've done it before and gotten away with it, but I trashed a small motorcycle once doing that and that's how I learned.
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iamryan25
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Post by iamryan25 »

I work at the local Genuine dealer, and we've seen a high number of "sticky" kill switches, if you press really hard on the run position it can make the electric start button work again... This wouldn't prevent lights coming on.

I'd be inclined to agree with jrsjr and would be concerned that damage may have occurred if the vehicle was running and the issue became permanent following the last jump start.

I've also seen a wiring harness get hot and melt due to a bad ground connection when trying to start the scooter with the scooter's battery alone. You'd be lucky to find a loose bolt on the ground wire at the frame, although this would be far less likely.

Let us know what happens and best of luck!
The red ones are faster.
Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

Okay! The 12v has power! Progress! I borrowed a multimeter and will see what else I can see. Any more suggestions?

Also, every time it was jumped, it was via a 12v charger, not a car/truck.
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jrsjr
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Post by jrsjr »

iamryan25 wrote:I've also seen a wiring harness get hot and melt due to a bad ground connection when trying to start the scooter with the scooter's battery alone. You'd be lucky to find a loose bolt on the ground wire at the frame, although this would be far less likely.
I would still check it. Chikazz, while you are there looking at the ground connection, there's also the possibility that the main ground connection was not great to begin with and the jumping thing might have caused it to get hot enough to burn the contact area a little. I suggest removing the fastener that holds it to the frame and checking for anything like that. What you want there is nice shiny metal-to-metal contact. Ground problems like this can cause weirdo problems that look like other problems and are not so easy to troubleshoot, not even for an experienced tech.
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Post by Chikazz »

I have no idea where to look. I'm good with electronics, but I don't know anything about automotive. Where is the ground wire on a scooter?
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iamryan25
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Post by iamryan25 »

Chikazz wrote:I have no idea where to look. I'm good with electronics, but I don't know anything about automotive. Where is the ground wire on a scooter?
At the point if you're covered by warranty it would be time to have the dealer correct the issue.

With the key on do any lights come on at all, brake lights or dash lights, does the horn work?

Look inside that fuse holder again, make sure there isn't a second fuse holder stuffed inside. Replace the fuse even if it doesn't look bad.

Cycle the kill switch a few times, pressing really hard, mechanical switches do fail, sometimes they are faulty right from the factory.

Inspect all wires for any signs of melted plastic or scorching.

Follow the black battery cable, it is fastened to unpainted metal surface, you can access it from removing the seat box.

Ensure the surface it is bolted to is not covered in paint. Use sand paper if there is paint. (I think it's bolted to the frame but might be bolted to the engine's valve cover where sanding isn't required)

While you're in there inspect the nuts on the starter relay by following the red battery cable back up to the starter relay.

Remove the front cover that has the horn behind it. Inspect the connections at the black CDI box as well as the rectifier/regulator.

Check for any loose connections if you see a wire bolted to the frame in the front check that to be sure it's touching raw metal without paint in between.

Again, if you're under warranty don't do any work yourself let the warranty take care.

The ONLY issue we've seen with Buddy 170 not starting was in fact a bad battery, even after the battery seemed to be charged it wasn't right inside.

You can consider going to an AGM battery if you did experience an issue with a battery.

Report back
The red ones are faster.
Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

The scooter is five years old. No warranty.

I just put a brand new, tested battery in it, AFTER jumping it stopped working. It's a sealed maintenance-free ytx9-bs battery. It's a bit larger than stock, but a friend in my scoot group back home suggested it. The new battery has never been jumped.

There IS power at the 12v outlet

Absolutely nothing happens when I turn the key. No brake lights, no dash lights, no headlight, no turn signal, no emergency lights, nothing. Absolutely nothing. I did not try the horn, but it's parked outside my apartment building so it's too late to try that now. I can try tomorrow.

When I try to start it, nothing. No clicks, no chug, no sound at all.

I don't know how to take the seat off

I don't have any sandpaper.

I'm not terribly handy, and I live in a small apartment with no tools besides a screwdriver. I can't remove a bolt, I don't have a wrench.

It occurs to me, even if I find a bad wire or loose connection, I don't have a way to fix it..

And I don't have any fuses. I don't have a car, either, so I can't just go get some. And I don't know anyone around here who could give me a ride. I haven't lived here very long.

Man, I sound like such a downer >.< Really, I want to do this but I'm feeling a bit out of my depth. If I had tools and supplies, or even a way to get some, I would totally throw myself into this diy :)
paracer
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Post by paracer »

I'm really thinking you might have an issue in the wiring between the battery and the ignition switch. I wonder if you'd be able to get the bike started by wiggling wires to reestablish connections. You might be able to loosen the ignition switch by rotating the plastic bezel around the switch. Then, gentle wiggle the wires with your fingers. Then, maybe not so gently, push and wiggle the kill switch and starter switch. Keep trying to start the scooter while you do this.

On another note, you need a tool set. Even a basic set from Wal-Mart is a good way to get started. Your basic pliers, needlenose pliers, screwdrivers, wrenches, utility knife, and hammer. You will find so many uses for basic tools but with the scooter and around the home.

If you don't have connections where you live, maybe you could post on craigslist that you need some help tracking down and fixing the issue. What part of the country do call home? There might be a local MBer that can help you out.
Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

Thanks for the idea. I can try that tomorrow.

I'd rather not go asking internet strangers to come to my apartment complex. I'm a five foot tall woman with a bad knee. I really wouldn't feel safe. Thanks though.
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Post by paracer »

Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

Wow! That's a great little tool set! I'm ordering one! Thanks, Paracer. If you guys think of anything else I can try that isn't too involved, let me know :)
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Post by paracer »

Chikazz wrote:Thanks for the idea. I can try that tomorrow.

I'd rather not go asking internet strangers to come to my apartment complex. I'm a five foot tall woman with a bad knee. I really wouldn't feel safe. Thanks though.
Gotcha. If you can wait a few days, I would pick up a tool set and then really dig into it.
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Post by Chikazz »

Unfortunately I can't. I'm a manager (and the sole IT person) at a small business. My boss has been nice enough to ferry me to/from work for the last few days, but I need my wheels back :D

Edit: Speak of the devil, he just told me he won't have a car tomorrow. Crud. Taxis cost a fortune.
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iamryan25
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Post by iamryan25 »

Uber and Lyft in the winter are good.
The red ones are faster.
Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

Whooo! It was the ignition!! I was trying what Paracer suggested, when I realized the key wasn't -quite- turning all the way to the on position. Mostly, but just the slightest bit off. Barely noticeable. I jiggled and wiggled and twisted, then flipped the key and tried again, and after a few minutes, it hesitantly turned completely, I saw the dash light come on, tried to start it.... and BOOM, started right up like a total dream on the first try!! Words cannot express how happy I am!!

I should probably get the ignition replaced, it's acting really creaky and sticking, but at least I can use it now!!!


I think my tired are low, it was struggling on my trek to work... What psi do I want? I have heidenau k58s on there.
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iamryan25
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Post by iamryan25 »

Nice work! Woohoo! Congrats.

It is actually not that hard to get the key stuck like that -- so replacing it may not help.

I recommend being careful to not press in when turning the key from on to off.

And also be careful to not press in when turning the scooter from off to on.

That key assembly can get stuck in between unlatching the seat and transitioning from on to off -- the difference is made when you press in to open the seat or turn the key without pressing the key in.

Sounds like a learning curve will circumvent this issue in the future.
The red ones are faster.
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

Congrats on the easy fix. Before replacing the ignition switch, try lubricating it first to see if that helps. The most common lubricant to use would be WD-40. Using the small tube that comes with WD-40, stick it into the key hole and just spritz a small amount into the lock/switch assy. Then distribute the lubricant by inserting the key and turning it back and forth a few times. You'll probably have to wipe the lubricant off the key the first few times you use it, unless you don't mind a little WD-40 in your pocket or wherever.
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Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

Yay! I used some WD 40 as suggested, and it's like I have a brand-new, velvety-smooth ignition! So easy!!! I thought the de-icer I used in it a few weeks ago would lube it too, but I guess not. No matter! New battery, full tank of gas, and a smooth ignition! A little air in the tires and it'll be like new!
paracer
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Post by paracer »

Congrats!! Very glad to hear that the bike starts now. With regular use, the ignition should be good to go.
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jrsjr
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Post by jrsjr »

Glad to hear that did the trick.

Happy Scootering!
Chikazz
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Post by Chikazz »

Thanks everyone. If it wasn't for all of you and your help/advice, I wouldn't have found all the clues that led me to the fix. I really appreciate it!
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

One of the main ingredients in de-icer spray is alcohol, so it probably washed away most of the lubricant from your switch assy. which caused the stickiness and ultimate starting problem.
Some people can break a crowbar in a sandbox.
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