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Clutch options

 
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BigDaddy SnakeOiler
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Joined: 02 Feb 2015
Posts: 248
Location: EPX
Stella 4T

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Clutch options Reply with quote

I'm thinking of upgrading the clutch on the 4T. I remember reading good things here about using the stock basket with Mallosi plates.
My scooter guy recommends replacing the whole shebang with a clutch from Cosa.
What say yee?

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djp4059
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Joined: 30 Jun 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Palos Hills, IL
2013 Stella 4T

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.bgm-tuning.com/product-category/vespa/vespa-vespa-gearbox-vespa/
I've thought about getting one from these guys. Wasn't sure which one, if any, would work in a Stella.
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BigDaddy SnakeOiler
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Posts: 248
Location: EPX
Stella 4T

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, those are some serious clutches. I'm pretty sure anyone that would fit a P200 will work in a Stella 4T.
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dasscooter
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Joined: 14 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run a Cosa in my P200 and it's fine, but you really really don't need a higher performance clutch. Even my Cosa is significantly stiffer than a stock 150 clutch, but I need it to handle the 200's power and revs on an expansion chamber. The 4t will never rev high enough to damage a clutch basket and it doesn't make any power. Keep your feather light clutch and go with standard parts. One of the best things about the Stella 4t is it's feather clutch!
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BigDaddy SnakeOiler
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Stella 4T

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dasscooter wrote:
One of the best things about the Stella 4t is it's feather clutch!


Except it's not consistent. I hate when it sticks and jerks.
I'll probably go with the Mallosi upgrade kit.

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dasscooter
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the Indian clutch plates, easy to burn.
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jimmbomb
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Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 770
Location: St Louis
81 Vespa P200... past bikes. 08 stella 09 stella w/p200 motor and 2010 4t stella

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put over 3k miles in a 2010 4t Stella and the clutch was perfect thru-out.
I wonder what caused yours to screw up.

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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest rebuilding the clutch. Get some good plates, soak them overnight before using and you should be good to go.

I had a Cosa asplode after 1,000 miles...yes...I was hammering the snot out of it.

I really don't see the need for a performance clutch. I don't know what max RPM is on a 4T but I go performance for high torque, sustained 6,000 to 7,000 RPM builds, or for street racers.

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BigDaddy SnakeOiler
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Joined: 02 Feb 2015
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Location: EPX
Stella 4T

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimmbomb wrote:
I put over 3k miles in a 2010 4t Stella and the clutch was perfect thru-out.
I wonder what caused yours to screw up.


I have 13,000 on the original clutch and it's always been kinda grabby. Very unpredictable. I don't think I did anything in particular.

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BigDaddy SnakeOiler
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Stella 4T

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
I would suggest rebuilding the clutch.


I went with the Mallosi plates. Probably going to use the original springs, or maybe a combo with a couple of the Malossi ones. Also going to replace the plunger and getting a 22 tooth drive plate. Hoping to get a bit more OTL.

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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malossi springs can be pretty damn tight. Why mixing? You really don't need that much force on the plates.
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az_slynch
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Joined: 12 Sep 2012
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'16 K-Pipe, '13 Stella 4T, '12 Yager GT200i, '81 Vespa P200e and Far Too Many Others

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
Malossi springs can be pretty damn tight. Why mixing? You really don't need that much force on the plates.


Agreed. Besides, mixing only works on six-spring clutches where you can properly balance the load; the 4T is a seven spring and won't allow for a balanced mix of springs. Just get OE Piaggio springs and call it good.

As for the 22T plate, you'll get a 4% upgear. Might add an extra .5mph in 1st and 2nd, possibly an extra 1mph in 3rd and 4th, asuming you can max out top gear. Won't do anything to improve takeoff off in that configuration.

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BigDaddy SnakeOiler
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Stella 4T

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="az_slynch"]
BuddyRaton wrote:
Malossi springs can be pretty damn tight. Why mixing?


Was following advice and experimenting. Don't really know much about clutches. Good point on the 7 spring balance. Using P200 springs is a better idea than staying with the stock ones?
The guy at Philly Scooters says the clutch is pretty simple to work on so it's no problem to try different things.

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az_slynch
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'16 K-Pipe, '13 Stella 4T, '12 Yager GT200i, '81 Vespa P200e and Far Too Many Others

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigDaddy SnakeOiler wrote:
Was following advice and experimenting. Don't really know much about clutches. Good point on the 7 spring balance. Using P200 springs is a better idea than staying with the stock ones?
The guy at Philly Scooters says the clutch is pretty simple to work on so it's no problem to try different things.


The clutch is easy to work on. The key bits to replace besides the springs are the bronze spacer that goes between the clutch basket and the driven plate and the bronze bushing on crank end of the drive plate if it gets scarred and gnarly.

The Piaggio springs are the same for the 125/150 and 200 clutches; the larger 200 clutch (Shared with the Stella 4T and Atomic Fireball) just has one extra spring to help keep the extra clamping surface engaged. I recommend Piaggio as they tend to last longer and offer more consistent spring pressure than the LML versions.

Other big things to watch for are clutch plates digging into the sides of the clutch basket where the two parts engage; I you see any of this, you might consider buying an FA Italia or Piaggio basket for better longevity. When you assemble the clutch basket and driven plate, be sure to line up the two small holes just outside of the spring circle. I've found that you can assemble these two parts at least two ways; only the one where the holes align will properly load the clutch springs. Also, once partly assembled, be sure to "push" the ends of the springs over so that they snap into the recesses in the drive plate.

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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great advice from AZ as always! I have thought that a clutch rebuild is a great introduction to working on Vespa motors.

There are some important things but overall it's a fairly easy job. Good for someone wanting to learn to wrench.

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Neurotic-Hapi-Snak
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Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 335
Location: Twin Cities, MN
'12 Stella 4T

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say at least replace the whole clutch with an OEM Piaggio or good after market 7 spring. Stay away from the 4 plate kits, they fit an extra plate by making all the plates thinner, so they wear out faster. Pretty much everyone on MV:NSM says they suck. If you need extra grip, go with stronger springs, better "corks", or a Cosa. My stock clutch was thrashed after 6000 miles, mushroomed plates, expanded basket, gouges in the basket from the plates. There are some pictures of it floating around. Maybe I just got a crappy one. So I went with a reinforced Cosa, since a Cosa is stronger and cost as much as a good 7 spring, no LML or Bajaj for me, and the reinforced was only slightly more expensive than a standard Cosa. Now I have a clutch that will withstand anything the 4T can foreseeably throw at it, even with the Polini 165 and Mikuni 22mm carb.
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