More trouble with bearings

[Tocsik]

I had the rear bearings replaced this summer at about 13k miles and then I started hearing more noise from the rear of the CVT. It seemed like it might be the clutch/pulley bearings so I had my shop order them but they still haven't come in. I kept riding the scooter and the noise has been getting a bit worse and last Friday it really picked up (with about 16k miles now). So I took the variator and clutch assembly off for an inspection and it seems like the noise is coming from the drive shaft; maybe the bearing where it exits the gear box. When I spin the shaft, it's pretty noisy and it even binds up sometimes. Not good.

I'll need to leave it at Sportique for "who knows how long" waiting on parts to get ordered and shipped right when the excellent Fall riding season is kicking in.

Anyone else have recurrent problems with bearings? I wanted this scooter to last a good long time but I've only had it for 2 years.

[Kaos]

Wow, I've got 32k miles on mine in 3 years, and have never had the slightest bearing noise.
Bum luck Tocsik.

[Lostmycage]

Bearings can go bad prematurely if their seals are compromised, if their inner races are hit during installation, of if the part they rotate is out of balance.

If you know the size of the bearings, you don't have to get PGO ones. There's a lot of standard sized bearings available of the same quality or better (possibly).

Roll on over here

[pdxrita]

Can you give a description of what you noticed as your bearings were failing? I've been noticing just a slight rythmic pull as I ride lately - like you might feel on a bicycle if one of your brakes was intermittently hitting the rim. When I spin the rear wheel, there's a slight whirring noise, on the verge of a grinding noise, perhaps? The front wheel is very quiet and spins freely. I thought maybe it was my rear brake as the mechanic tightened that up during my recent service, but it didn't go away when I loosened the brake. I'm just short of 5k miles. The paperwork for that tune up, the 4k mile tuneup, said he had lubricated the hubs (something like that?). Maybe he didn't get it back together right?

[Lagerhead]

When I spin the rear wheel, there's a slight whirring noise, on the verge of a grinding noise, perhaps?

I've had this happen on 6 (yes six) OEM buddy clutch assemblies.
The noise comes from the ball bearing that's held in place with an internal snap ring inside the clutch driven face. The bearing is #17 in the parts drawing...


The bearing is only sealed on one side. So it eventually becomes contaminated with (very abrasive) clutch dust.

I've had good luck just replacing the entire assembly with a generic GY6 clutch.

[jijifer]

yes, that happened to me somewhere around 13k, too. I got it fixed at the shop - not sure which bearing just that it wasn't the "needle" ones. But same thing, a whirring noise when I'd spin my rear wheel.

I'm at nearly 18k - or is it 19? sheesh, I need to look. But no problems (knock on wood) since my replacement. Maybe it'll be at 26k?

[JHScoot]

I had the rear bearings replaced this summer at about 13k miles and then I started hearing more noise from the rear of the CVT. It seemed like it might be the clutch/pulley bearings so I had my shop order them but they still haven't come in. I kept riding the scooter and the noise has been getting a bit worse and last Friday it really picked up (with about 16k miles now). So I took the variator and clutch assembly off for an inspection and it seems like the noise is coming from the drive shaft; maybe the bearing where it exits the gear box. When I spin the shaft, it's pretty noisy and it even binds up sometimes. Not good.

I'll need to leave it at Sportique for "who knows how long" waiting on parts to get ordered and shipped right when the excellent Fall riding season is kicking in.

Anyone else have recurrent problems with bearings? I wanted this scooter to last a good long time but I've only had it for 2 years.

so if the bearing(s) go bad its a big enough deal to consider the scooter something which won't "last"

just how big a deal is this, and how much cash does it take to fix? is it a DIY job?

just want to know what might be coming for the Blackjack

[Kaos]

I had the rear bearings replaced this summer at about 13k miles and then I started hearing more noise from the rear of the CVT. It seemed like it might be the clutch/pulley bearings so I had my shop order them but they still haven't come in. I kept riding the scooter and the noise has been getting a bit worse and last Friday it really picked up (with about 16k miles now). So I took the variator and clutch assembly off for an inspection and it seems like the noise is coming from the drive shaft; maybe the bearing where it exits the gear box. When I spin the shaft, it's pretty noisy and it even binds up sometimes. Not good.

I'll need to leave it at Sportique for "who knows how long" waiting on parts to get ordered and shipped right when the excellent Fall riding season is kicking in.

Anyone else have recurrent problems with bearings? I wanted this scooter to last a good long time but I've only had it for 2 years.

so if the bearing(s) go bad its a big enough deal to consider the scooter something which won't "last"

just how big a deal is this, and how much cash does it take to fix? is it a DIY job?

just want to know what might be coming for the Blackjack

It doesn't happen to everyone, I've got 32k on my Buddy and haven't ever had bearing issues. And my bike gets a lot more abuse than most.

[pdxrita]

Thanks everyone. That part in the diagram seems about right. It seems like it's rapidly deteriorating, so it's off to the mechanic I go. It looks like the main expense in this repair would be the labor as the part looks like it should be fairly cheap?

[pdxrita]

It doesn't happen to everyone, I've got 32k on my Buddy and haven't ever had bearing issues. And my bike gets a lot more abuse than most.

I wonder if this hasn't happened to you because you've been in there a lot fiddling with everything? If it's caused by abrasive clutch dust, then I assume that's something you might blow out whenever you're in the neighborhood? I've heard others say this is something that should be done regularly. I haven't looked for a tech article on this, but it would be a good one to have if it's not already there.

[Kaos]

It doesn't happen to everyone, I've got 32k on my Buddy and haven't ever had bearing issues. And my bike gets a lot more abuse than most.

I wonder if this hasn't happened to you because you've been in there a lot fiddling with everything? If it's caused by abrasive clutch dust, then I assume that's something you might blow out whenever you're in the neighborhood? I've heard others say this is something that should be done regularly. I haven't looked for a tech article on this, but it would be a good one to have if it's not already there.

Ohh, thats a very very good point. I clean the clutch dust out very regularly. Clutch dust can affect performance and clutch life so it was a very common maintenance item for me.

I was cleaning it out every other oil change.

[Tocsik]

I haven't chimed in with a response on this because my scooter is back in the shop getting bearings replaced. Again.

It's been there for over 2 weeks and when I called them Saturday for a status check I was told they don't even have the bearings yet.

So I'm pissed.

And pouting.

And not the best person to talk to about frickin' bearings right now.

Damnit.

[pdxrita]

I haven't chimed in with a response on this because my scooter is back in the shop getting bearings replaced. Again.

It's been there for over 2 weeks and when I called them Saturday for a status check I was told they don't even have the bearings yet.

So I'm pissed.

And pouting.

And not the best person to talk to about frickin' bearings right now.

Damnit.

Sorry to hear this Tocsik. I may soon be sharing your pain, though. Perhaps we could weep over a virtual beer together.... (where's the beer emoticon when you need it?)

[jijifer]

This is my invoice for the repair:

11,555 MILES. REBUILD CLUTCH WITH NEW
BEARINGS AND SEALS. PACK WITH FRESH
GREASE. CHECK/TOP-OFF OIL, CHECK TYRE
PRESSURES, TEST RIDE.

Labor: $80.00
G95514000001 O-RING/ BUDDY CLUTCH Qty 2 @$3.49 = $6.98T
G96550202900 NEEDLE BEARING/BUDDY CLUTCH Qty 1@ = $14.95T
G92162400000 CIR-CLIP/ BUDDY CLUTCH Qty 1@ $1.75T
G95593441400 OIL SEAL,BUDDY CLUTCH Qty 2@ $6.95 = $13.90T
G96520690200 BALL BEARING 1 SEAL /BUDDY CLUTCH Qty1 @$17.95T

Grand total: $135.53

[pdxrita]

Thanks jijifer. It could be worse, I suppose. I'm guessing this is what I'll need. Lesson learned: blow out the clutch dust every now and again.

This is my invoice for the repair:

11,555 MILES. REBUILD CLUTCH WITH NEW
BEARINGS AND SEALS. PACK WITH FRESH
GREASE. CHECK/TOP-OFF OIL, CHECK TYRE
PRESSURES, TEST RIDE.

Labor: $80.00
G95514000001 O-RING/ BUDDY CLUTCH Qty 2 @$3.49 = $6.98T
G96550202900 NEEDLE BEARING/BUDDY CLUTCH Qty 1@ = $14.95T
G92162400000 CIR-CLIP/ BUDDY CLUTCH Qty 1@ $1.75T
G95593441400 OIL SEAL,BUDDY CLUTCH Qty 2@ $6.95 = $13.90T
G96520690200 BALL BEARING 1 SEAL /BUDDY CLUTCH Qty1 @$17.95T

Grand total: $135.53

[jrsjr]

It doesn't happen to everyone, I've got 32k on my Buddy and haven't ever had bearing issues. And my bike gets a lot more abuse than most.

I wonder if this hasn't happened to you because you've been in there a lot fiddling with everything? If it's caused by abrasive clutch dust, then I assume that's something you might blow out whenever you're in the neighborhood? I've heard others say this is something that should be done regularly. I haven't looked for a tech article on this, but it would be a good one to have if it's not already there.

Ohh, thats a very very good point. I clean the clutch dust out very regularly. Clutch dust can affect performance and clutch life so it was a very common maintenance item for me.

I was cleaning it out every other oil change.

Thanks jijifer. It could be worse, I suppose. I'm guessing this is what I'll need. Lesson learned: blow out the clutch dust every now and again.

These two posts remind me of a question I have that's never been answered to my satisfaction. If clutch dust and heat inside the CVT housing cause so many problems, why doesn't somebody try an active ventilation system? It wouldn't be all that hard. Two small form-factor computer fans hooked up in a push-pull configuration so that one pushes air into the CVT housing and the other pulls it out at the other end would do the job. It seems like this would be a great way to lower the temperature inside the housing, plus it would have the added benefit of helping to evacuate clutch dust. It seems like somebody with a Dremel, a spare CVT cover, and a few hours of work could build a test rig to see if this works. If it helped, it'd be a great idea for a side business modding CVT case covers. What I can't figure out is if this is one of those ideas that's so stupidly simple that nobody's thought of it or if it's just a stupid idea. I dunno. Anybody?

EDIT: If anybody is thinking about this, I bet you could recoup your startup costs by selling one to everybody who's ever ridden a Cannonball (or hopes to ride one in the future). There's absolutley no quicker way to learn what heat does to a CVT belt than to change a belt in the blazing heat by the side of the road in the middle of no-fricking-where.

[bigbropgo]

Race scooters run a modified cover or run without. But it does protect from the elements and road debris. Not to mention sucking in a pant leg. I think air induction would help. But city riding wouldn't offer enough flow.

[jrsjr]

I think air induction would help. But city riding wouldn't offer enough flow.

That's one of the reasons why I think an active system is called for. The pantleg thing crossed my mind. I guess the intake needs to be in the rear to circumvent that issue. Also, back to the city riding thing for a moment, it wouldn't be hard to instrument a test bike to find out if this thing actually lowers temps. A couple thermocouples inside the CVT housing and one handheld meter strapped to the bike would do it. The simplest possible test would be to run it around until thermal equilibrium is reached, then switch the fans off and see how much hotter it runs without the active ventilation.

[jijifer]

at the time, my shop had never seen this problem. They suggested it was due to the extra torque added by my big bore kit. I go through rear tires faster than most so it didn't surprise me something else on the back end was wearing quicker than most, too. As far as I know, I'm one of (if not the) highest mileage buddy's they service and one of few buddy's with a kit. There are a couple more kits in town now but not many.

It's one reason I don't recommend big topcases, too. More weight on the back wheel will mean more problems over time. I don't usually have anything in mine but the added drag is one factor in my rear tire life. I'm drawing maybe a totally unrelated parallel but I had this lovely schwinn cruiser - the 2nd off the manufacturing line the in 1996 - The Cruiser 7 - first cruiser with the Shimano Nexus 7 spd internal rearhub- I digress. The rear hub is as serious as heartattack - not one maintenance issue in almost 15yrs. BUT here's the parallel I think about. I used to be bike only and that was my grocery-getter. I'd hang grocery bags from my handlebars and ride. One day, no grocery bags, my front wheel just goes totally wonky. It's worbling under the hand pin-striped fender. I get it to work and the tech guy go "Oh shit, you totally screwed up the bearings" The "oh shit" was because this bike was made in very limited #s with the hand pin-stripped wheel so there were no replacements for one of the endearing features of said bike - no even when you work for Schwinn HQ!. The tech guys talked of taking it apart and rebuilding but by the grace of God, one bike came back as "scratch and dent" and I was given a good wheel and told to stop hanging stuff from my handlebars - the pressure flattens the bearings.

There it is- the parallel I draw. Pressure flattens the bearings. There's a reason backracks and topcases suggest such light weight maximums. I'm pretty sure my Givi could carry something more dense BUT what's that doing to my bearings, tires and any other moving part on the back end?!

When it turned out that my rear bearings were going flat, I didn't blink an eye. If you want to carry stuff on the back, especially if you want to carry more weight than recommended - bearings will go flat - or so my non-technical mind can believe

[pdxrita]

<snip>If you want to carry stuff on the back, especially if you want to carry more weight than recommended - bearings will go flat - or so my non-technical mind can believe

Interesting theory. I am not kitted, completely stock. BUT, I do have a topcase and I carry stuff in it on a daily basis. I'd say it's less than 10 lbs that I carry, though. Basically, a few small personal items, my lunch, a thermos of tea and a mug of coffee. Maybe that contributes, but I'm more inclined to believe the clutch dust theory and henceforth, once I get this fixed, I will blow out that dust every other other oil change, like Kaos does (he's only destroyed a few scooters, after all ). I'm dropping it off at the shop after work today, so I should know more soon about exactly what the nature of the problem is.

[jijifer]

<snip>If you want to carry stuff on the back, especially if you want to carry more weight than recommended - bearings will go flat - or so my non-technical mind can believe

Interesting theory. I am not kitted, completely stock. BUT, I do have a topcase and I carry stuff in it on a daily basis. I'd say it's less than 10 lbs that I carry, though. Basically, a few small personal items, my lunch, a thermos of tea and a mug of coffee. Maybe that contributes, but I'm more inclined to believe the clutch dust theory and henceforth, once I get this fixed, I will blow out that dust every other other oil change, like Kaos does (he's only destroyed a few scooters, after all ). I'm dropping it off at the shop after work today, so I should know more soon about exactly what the nature of the problem is.

do you change the oil yourself and thus take off the cover? I'd suggest my shop do it at the oil change but if it adds labor then no bueno

[pdxrita]

I do my own oil changes, but have never removed the cover as a part of that process, since it's not necessary. It will be an additional thing to do. It doesn't look like just removing that cover is a difficult thing to do, so I'll give it a shot. As for whether your shop might charge you for that, maybe find out how much it would cost and weigh that against a periodic clutch rebuild at $130 a pop (plus time without scoot).

[bigbropgo]

I think air induction would help. But city riding wouldn't offer enough flow.

That's one of the reasons why I think an active system is called for. The pantleg thing crossed my mind. I guess the intake needs to be in the rear to circumvent that issue. Also, back to the city riding thing for a moment, it wouldn't be hard to instrument a test bike to find out if this thing actually lowers temps. A couple thermocouples inside the CVT housing and one handheld meter strapped to the bike would do it. The simplest possible test would be to run it around until thermal equilibrium is reached, then switch the fans off and see how much hotter it runs without the active ventilation.

I think fans to move the air would be a PITA. Some performance clutch bells have fins to promote air circulation but without holes or vents in the cvt case the dust probably just swishes around. But I'm with ya, heat is the enemy and so is clutch and belt dust. It would benefit scoots to have a way to evacuate dirty hot air and introduce cooler air as long as water, dirt and other debris stayed out. I just thing its a "standards of cvt operation" kinda thing. It works in most/majority of all A/C scooters. And has for eons, so why change it. A guy on 49ccscoot.com took a funnel and cut a hole in the front of his plastic just to the side of the front tire. (Mini air scoop) Hooked a hose from the funnel to the hole in the top left of the cvt case. The faster he rode, the more air came in. He put more work into it than I think I would but its a great idea.

[jrsjr]

A guy on 49ccscoot.com took a funnel and cut a hole in the front of his plastic just to the side of the front tire. (Mini air scoop) Hooked a hose from the funnel to the hole in the top left of the cvt case. The faster he rode, the more air came in. He put more work into it than I think I would but its a great idea.

Interesting. The downside to that idea is that it won't work well in traffic. The upside, of course, is simplicity.

[jijifer]

(plus time without scoot).

My shop is really awesome. They know I'm scooter only and so they turn me around same day if it's something that is routine. If something major, I drop it off at close of business one night and get it the next day - they've got an amazing mechanic that works over night.

Robot is the awesomest. By way of example. He agrees to service my scooter one Thursday night so that I can hit the road at 10am for my big Swerve & Curve adventure in Los Angeles. Oil Change, Rear Tire and performance front shocks. I'm to drop it off by 6pm on Thursday. I get to the shop at 6pm Thursday and I'm told Robot is Mexico saving some scooterists and won't be back. I had gotten confirmation that morning with no word about Mexico so the shop text's him and he says "yep, he'll be back" so I leave my scoot sure it'll be ready. At about 3am, I get an email saying it's done and ready to roll. It wasn't until he was given an award and I saw this video below that I understood what he was doing in Mexico. Listen to his story and know he rolled into the shop and serviced my scoot until 2:30am. THAT's how awesome my shop is


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhlLBKQz ... re=related

[Cheshire]

It doesn't happen to everyone, I've got 32k on my Buddy and haven't ever had bearing issues. And my bike gets a lot more abuse than most.

I wonder if this hasn't happened to you because you've been in there a lot fiddling with everything? If it's caused by abrasive clutch dust, then I assume that's something you might blow out whenever you're in the neighborhood? I've heard others say this is something that should be done regularly. I haven't looked for a tech article on this, but it would be a good one to have if it's not already there.

Ohh, thats a very very good point. I clean the clutch dust out very regularly. Clutch dust can affect performance and clutch life so it was a very common maintenance item for me.

I was cleaning it out every other oil change.

You change your oil, what, every 1.5k miles? 2k? So...basically cleaning out the dust is part of your 4k service...or more frequently?

[Kaos]

I wonder if this hasn't happened to you because you've been in there a lot fiddling with everything? If it's caused by abrasive clutch dust, then I assume that's something you might blow out whenever you're in the neighborhood? I've heard others say this is something that should be done regularly. I haven't looked for a tech article on this, but it would be a good one to have if it's not already there.

Ohh, thats a very very good point. I clean the clutch dust out very regularly. Clutch dust can affect performance and clutch life so it was a very common maintenance item for me.

I was cleaning it out every other oil change.

You change your oil, what, every 1.5k miles? 2k? So...basically cleaning out the dust is part of your 4k service...or more frequently?

Yeah, every 1.5k so I do it every 3 to 4k miles. With as hard as I work my clutch, I think it dusts a bit more than your average rider's will, but doing it that often can't hurt.

[JHScoot]

^ ok more education for me here...

how does one ride to work a clutch "hard" on an auto trans? i thought the belt turned and that was pretty much that?

[Kaos]

^ ok more education for me here...

how does one ride to work a clutch "hard" on an auto trans? i thought the belt turned and that was pretty much that?

Ride down the interstate at 80MPH for about an hour. You'll be spinning that clutch at maximum RPMS for a long period. Both the clutch and the belt can really heat up in those conditions and will wear much more quickly.

I've glazed belts and gotten the CVT cover hot enough to smoke in riding conditions like that.

Don't worry though, a stock(or even fairly modified) bike will NEVER reach those conditions.

[Lostmycage]

An active cooling system with SFF fans would get a lot more benefit from the fan openings than the fans themselves. Passive (open air vents with no fans) would be much less complicated to setup and probably more effective with no obstruction of the opening (fan). The fan system would work a lot better at a stand still, but once moving, a simple scoop would overpower a fan system by a large percentage.

The CVT have those giant, easily broken, fan blades on them to move air around. The fronts of the cases already have accommodations for an intake scoop and there's an exit at the rear (it snakes up and down before it exits towards the ground). The problem is that the balance between protection from road debris and cooling is shifted towards the protection. I think it's because most people don't take scooters on long distance tours so the manufacturers would rather keep potentially damaging bits out of the CVT.

What I've though about doing in the past was taking the scoop at the front of the CVT and dremeling off the side turn (for the Blur 150) or the down turn (Buddy) and replacing the foam with something more open cell, possibly even a layer of two of mesh and then dremeling out the exit so that it's more of a straight shot down. That would increase air flow through the CVT by a large margin, but it would also cause problems if you suck up a plastic bag (it'd be a lot easier to catch it if the opening is pointed towards the front.

Other thoughts are opening up the sides of the CVT by cutting vents into the back half of the variator pulley (on the back side of the slight curve out) and the rear of the clutch and then making a mesh overscreen to keep road debris out.


On the subject of clutch dust - I've always maintained that blowing out the belt and clutch dust should be a regular maintenance item.

[Kaos]

An active cooling system with SFF fans would get a lot more benefit from the fan openings than the fans themselves. Passive (open air vents with no fans) would be much less complicated to setup and probably more effective with no obstruction of the opening (fan). The fan system would work a lot better at a stand still, but once moving, a simple scoop would overpower a fan system by a large percentage.

The CVT have those giant, easily broken, fan blades on them to move air around. The fronts of the cases already have accommodations for an intake scoop and there's an exit at the rear (it snakes up and down before it exits towards the ground). The problem is that the balance between protection from road debris and cooling is shifted towards the protection. I think it's because most people don't take scooters on long distance tours so the manufacturers would rather keep potentially damaging bits out of the CVT.

What I've though about doing in the past was taking the scoop at the front of the CVT and dremeling off the side turn (for the Blur 150) or the down turn (Buddy) and replacing the foam with something more open cell, possibly even a layer of two of mesh and then dremeling out the exit so that it's more of a straight shot down. That would increase air flow through the CVT by a large margin, but it would also cause problems if you suck up a plastic bag (it'd be a lot easier to catch it if the opening is pointed towards the front.

Other thoughts are opening up the sides of the CVT by cutting vents into the back half of the variator pulley (on the back side of the slight curve out) and the rear of the clutch and then making a mesh overscreen to keep road debris out.


On the subject of clutch dust - I've always maintained that blowing out the belt and clutch dust should be a regular maintenance item.

I actually run with the front of the CVT open, removing the bend completely. It dramatically lowered the frequency that I glazed belts.

[Lostmycage]

Hah, brain fart on my part. The bend can be removed (it's a snorkel that slips over the CVT case and has a one screw band clamp). I think I was thinking of keeping it was that it has a small filter in it that would help keep stuff out.

[pdxrita]

Follow up on my issue: I got off easy, no problem with bearings of any sort. What it turned out to be was grease on the clutch plates. I asked how it got there and the mechanic said that over time it will squeeze through along the shaft. He said the whirring noise I hear when I spin the back wheel is normal and frankly, I couldn't say for sure because I don't normally spin my back wheel (well, except while riding, of course). He also found that my gear oil was really low - 40cc's - which really frustrates me because I just had the 4,000 mile service done and they should at least have checked the gear oil, if not changed it. So I will not be going to the shop that did my 4,000 mile service any more. I'm done with them.

[Old Crow]

So early this spring I started hearing a rolling-rattling noise which did not correlate to speed or throttle but did correlate to engine/drive train load. Noise would occur when accelerating uphill from 20mph but not cruising at 40mph on level road; and noise would occur when cruising on level road at 55+mph but not going downhill at 60mph. As a note, this bike is fully stock with 24k miles.

I eventually determined it to be the driven belt pulley bearings going dry. I don't know if it was the ball bearings or the needle bearings because I repacked both with grease and the noise went away. Of course it wasn't that fast or simple -- I did many maintenance & test run evolutions and luckily got it fixed the night before a group ride I wanted to do.

First I thought it was going to be the drive belt, which I found to be at the spec end-of-service-life, or the boss in driving belt pulley assembly. Don't get me started on how that Gates belt from ScooterWorks was never the width it should have been and thus I got only about half the life I get from PGO Bando belts my shop sells (yeah, my shop is ~75 miles away so I went the online route last year). Adding a touch of oil to the gear box didn't fix things either, but did cause oil to weep from it (i.e. something to clean up).

Once belt was replaced and pulley checked & cleaned and checked & cleaned, I wondered about engine bearings or timing chain & tensioner (even though I didn't hear chain slap at idle). Chain looked good when I lashed the valves and replaced my aging spark plug. My supportive shop (shout-out for Scoot Richmond) said bearings should last life of engine, but at 24k I may be getting near that. Even though I always keep good oil at proper level, am getting same great mpg, top speed & pull still good, and hear 30k-40k miles life is very achievable, this had me worried -- I love riding my Buddy 150 and it's grocery hauling capacity.

Out of desperation I replace my sliders with some lighter ones I didn't really like but kept just-in-case. Still that damned noise persisted so back in go my old sliders. I cannot believe the variator would wear from sliders.

Then I searched MB for "bearing AND noise" and found this thread (even though I was really thinking engine bearings). Reading of others' issues with dead driven pulley bearings jogged my brain. I remembered that I had wondered about how much grease should be on those bearings when doing general clean-up & inspection as part of my belt replacement several weeks before.

I didn't take the driven pulley apart, I just used a bamboo skewer to reach through the assembly and place grease on the ball bearings. Then I used a Q-tip to get it pushed down and smeared around better while removing excess. For the needle bearings I just used the skewer to smear grease on them and kind of roll them around. Yep, did it all without duct tape

Anyway, thanks for keeping these old posts around -- they are still helpful.

[babblefish]

Glad you were able to solve your Buddy's problem.
For some, old news is new news. Yep, old posts and new members/scooter owners is a good combination.