Scooter is Slow

scooternewb · Post by **scooternewb** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:14 am

I recently purchased a 2009 Buddy with 13,500 miles on it. I had it serviced immediately (oil, filter, overall checkup) and they found no issues with anything. With that said, the scooter seems to be slower than what I've read up on over the internet.

For example, when I hop on in the morning after it's been in the garage overnight it will max out around 37mph (speedometer reading). After a few miles of riding, when the engine is warmed up, it maxes out around 42mph. If the wind is against me then it's even slower and if I climb even a small hill I lose about 10mph.

I'm curious if anyone has some insight on what issues this could be or if I should look into upgrading anything.

-Gavin

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:41 am

scooternewb wrote:I recently purchased a 2009 Buddy with 13,500 miles on it. I had it serviced immediately (oil, filter, overall checkup) and they found no issues with anything. With that said, the scooter seems to be slower than what I've read up on over the internet.

For example, when I hop on in the morning after it's been in the garage overnight it will max out around 37mph (speedometer reading). After a few miles of riding, when the engine is warmed up, it maxes out around 42mph. If the wind is against me then it's even slower and if I climb even a small hill I lose about 10mph.

I'm curious if anyone has some insight on what issues this could be or if I should look into upgrading anything.

-Gavin

It almost sounds like you have a Buddy 50 instead of a Buddy 125. Even with 13,500 miles, a Buddy 125 should max out at 60 even 65 mph speedometer indicated or 55-60 actual. My guess is you might need only a valve adjustment since it doesn't look like one was done when you had the
scooter serviced and if you didn't get all of the service records when you bought the scooter, the valves may have never been adjusted. So check this out before you start thinking upgrades. There are upgrades available for a Buddy 125 but they're designed to get you from 60 to 65 and not 37 to 65 or even 60. Good luck,

Bill in Seattle
'14 170i Hooligan Matte Green

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:44 am

Does it feel like it's running well,, or does it chug along?

scooternewb · Post by **scooternewb** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:57 am

Ha it sure feels like a 50 to be honest. But it's definitely not. What impact would the valve adjustments have? Would I see a significant change or pretty minor? I've also been recommended to switch out the belt which might add some speed.

It does seem like the scooter is "chugging" but I'm not experienced to know if this is the feel of a 4-stroke or the scooter not performing. Any helpful hints?

HanShan · Post by **HanShan** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:51 am

Are you positive you bought a 125? Anyone know an easy was to tell? I mean the speed sounds way too much like a 50.

Scary to think someone could have put a 50 engine in a 125...

cummingsjc · Post by **cummingsjc** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:19 pm

HanShan wrote:Are you positive you bought a 125? Anyone know an easy was to tell? I mean the speed sounds way too much like a 50.

Scary to think someone could have put a 50 engine in a 125...

It would seem more likely that someone changed out the body panels rather than an engine switch. I could imagine that maybe there was body damage to the panels on a 50 cc Buddy and someone just used 125cc labeled replacement panels. One look at the muffler should be an easy way to tell since the 50 and 125 have different heat shields (the 125 has an elongated oval-shaped silver heat shield). Also, they have a different shaped airbox, the 125's is bigger. Also, the 125 has an oil dipstick and fill port on the right side just in front of the muffler. The 50, as a 2T would not have this.

If the OP has the title paperwork for a 125, he could always check the VIN placard against the Title against the frame VIN to see if they all match.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:55 pm

cummingsjc wrote:It would seem more likely that someone changed out the body panels rather than an engine switch. I could imagine that maybe there was body damage to the panels on a 50 cc Buddy and someone just used 125cc labeled replacement panels.

You don't even have to do that. The "50" and "125" badges are just plastic stuck on with light adhesive. A bit of work with a hair dryer and the "50" comes off. Replacement badges can be ordered thru a dealer. The usual thing is to swap out the "125" for the "50" to avoid licensing requirements and parking restrictions.

mukaiboston · Post by **mukaiboston** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:41 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can usually tell by the engine sounds. I have a 170, but I'm guessing the 125 would sound similar since they are both four-stroke.

The 50 is two-stroke so the engine sounds are higher-pitched, almost sounds like a lawnmower or weed-wacker.

The four-stroke engines are designed more similar to car engines so they make a deep vroom-vroom sound like an automobile.

Remous · Post by **Remous** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:09 pm

I had a problem similar to yours... try checking this thread out.. DeeDee was right about the diaphragm.. maybe it isn't seated the whole way around. Mine looked like it was but it wasn't.

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=

Made sure it was sealed the whole way around and it was back to running normal speeds

cummingsjc · Post by **cummingsjc** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:41 pm

Dooglas wrote:
cummingsjc wrote:It would seem more likely that someone changed out the body panels rather than an engine switch. I could imagine that maybe there was body damage to the panels on a 50 cc Buddy and someone just used 125cc labeled replacement panels.
You don't even have to do that. The "50" and "125" badges are just plastic stuck on with light adhesive. A bit of work with a hair dryer and the "50" comes off. Replacement badges can be ordered thru a dealer. The usual thing is to swap out the "125" for the "50" to avoid licensing requirements and parking restrictions.

Absolutely true.

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:01 pm

Dooglas wrote:
cummingsjc wrote:It would seem more likely that someone changed out the body panels rather than an engine switch. I could imagine that maybe there was body damage to the panels on a 50 cc Buddy and someone just used 125cc labeled replacement panels.
You don't even have to do that. The "50" and "125" badges are just plastic stuck on with light adhesive. A bit of work with a hair dryer and the "50" comes off. Replacement badges can be ordered thru a dealer. The usual thing is to swap out the "125" for the "50" to avoid licensing requirements and parking restrictions.

The obvious thing to look for is the absence of a dipstick since the 50 is a 2T engine. If the engine has a dipstick then it's a 4T so don't worry about body panels or badges. Look for a dipstick.

Bill in Seattle

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:46 pm

skipper20 wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
cummingsjc wrote:It would seem more likely that someone changed out the body panels rather than an engine switch. I could imagine that maybe there was body damage to the panels on a 50 cc Buddy and someone just used 125cc labeled replacement panels.
You don't even have to do that. The "50" and "125" badges are just plastic stuck on with light adhesive. A bit of work with a hair dryer and the "50" comes off. Replacement badges can be ordered thru a dealer. The usual thing is to swap out the "125" for the "50" to avoid licensing requirements and parking restrictions.
The obvious thing to look for is the absence of a dipstick since the 50 is a 2T engine. If the engine has a dipstick then it's a 4T so don't worry about body panels or badges. Look for a dipstick.

Bill in Seattle

This. And since the OP said he changed oil and filter, I think it's a 125 (unless of course, the shop he had service the scoot lied to him).

scooternewb · Post by **scooternewb** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:18 pm

It's definitely a 125 based on the aforementioned details (sound, dipstick, exhaust shield, servicing etc.).

I'll certainly look into the the other possibilities of diaphragm seal among others suggested.

Thanks everyone! I'll post some results down the road based on what I find.

-Gavin

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:28 pm

At that mileage, you are coming up on what would be your second belt change. Condition of the rollers should also be looked into. Make sure the correct rating and quantity of engine oil and gear oil has been used. Often overlooked is tire air pressure. This is huge for performance. On these small tires, you can be 10 lbs low, and still look good. I would go through and carefully do a full service including fluids, spark plug, valve adjustment and filters (oil, air & fuel). Be sure the service is up to snuff and done correctly before you start chasing your performance problem.

scooternewb · Post by **scooternewb** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:30 pm

Upon looking through the carburetor and general connections I found two possibilities. And as a disclaimer, I am not a mechanic nor an engine guru so bear with me.

First, the diaphragm seems to be a tiny bit loose and the rubber is a bit dried out. Rather than a tight seal, it more rests on top. Is this meant to be a tight seal? And would this significantly contribute to speed?

Second, I noticed there is a tube that connects to the lower right (when sitting on the bike), back portion of the carb that does not connect to anything on the other side. Could this be related to the issue? And does anyone know where this is meant to connect?

After reading through this carb thread (http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic22826.html) I'm curious if I should just consider a new carb altogether...

Thoughts? Cheers!

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:08 am

The diaphragm is a tricky little bugger. The first Buddy carb I took apart and cleaned had the diaphragm glued in place by old fuel. I tore it getting it off. Carb clean complete, I was sure the new diaphragm was in place. Took me 2 more tries before the scooter responded to the throttle like it should. I took a very small amount of plumber's grease on my index finger, and worked my way around the diameter of the carb ensuring that the whole rim has a very fine layer of grease around it. Then I carefully fit the diaphragm before re-installing the black cap. It will often look perfect, but not work past idle. Can you show a picture of the unhooked hose you're talking about. I believe the bowl drain is on the left side. If you have an unhooked vacuum line, that could surely be the cause of your problem. I don't think you need to buy a new carb. If your problem is a disconnected vacuum line, a new carb won't fix that. Without some kind of trauma or severe neglect, the Buddy 125 carb can last 30,000 miles +.

scooternewb · Post by **scooternewb** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:54 am

I've attached two photos of the hose. One shows how I found it hanging out the left side of the scooter and the other shows when I pulled it through to show where it leads. Let me know what you think.

As for the diaphragm, would you recommend I replace it if the fit is not snug? Or do you think the grease trick you recommended would help?

Thanks for the help!

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:07 pm

I haven't touched a 125 carb in over two years. Maybe someone who ones one can look under the seat and chime in. If that hose was neatly routed to the left side of the scooter, I believe it is supposed to be there.

I can't see from the small picture where the tube starts.

Did you ride the scooter before this "service" was done? How did it ride then?
Did you test ride it before purchase?
The diaphragm will usually not unseat itself. It will cause problems if it has been removed, and unseated improperly.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:24 pm

That hose is the drain line for the carburator. It is suppose to be open at one end and hanging down.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:21 pm

Is it a power issue or a transmission issue? Or possibly a brake dragging issue. If the valve adjustment was out bad enough to slow it down to 40 mph it wouldn't start. I'd rebuild the stock carb or better yet have your dealer loan you a known good carb. No way they should send you out the door with it running like that.

Modern Buddy

Scooter is Slow

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