Buddy 170i Battery help

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:36 pm

I read some old threads and I still am not sure what I should do.

One of my stepsons moved my buddy 170i to a different spot in the garage and left the key in the ignition turned to on. It was there at least 4 days before I noticed. So excited to go ride to work after several days of not riding. No surprise now it won't start.

My husband has a trickle charger for his boat and a car battery charger. Can I use those or do I need to buy something else to charge it? I read something that said use a 12V battery charger and another thing that said never use a car charger, something that said use a trickle charger to maintain it, but that will take too long if it's completely dead, like over 24 hours. Also something called a trickle charger Jr.

What do I buy or use? Help. I'm a newbie to riding but I want to learn how to fix my scooter myself. And do it the right way.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:23 pm

Do not use a car charger. Most car chargers are designed to charge at currents too high for a small motorcycle/scooter battery. Use your trickle charger instead. Even though it may take a while to charge the battery, it is much safer. If you want a faster charge, then buy a charger with no more than 1 or 2 amperes of charge current. Also, when looking at chargers, keep in mind that a fairly decent replacement battery can be bought through Amazon for $40 or less.

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:39 pm

Should I get my own trickle charger to stay attached to my scooter?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:06 pm

You can, but if the scooter is ridden regularly, it should not be necessary. My scooters sometimes sit for two weeks or more without being used and I've never had any problems with the battery going flat. Of course, I don't leave the key in the ON position...

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:10 pm

Thanks!

VegasBaby! · Post by **VegasBaby!** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:46 pm

The term trickle charger means different things to different people. In the 60s a trickle charger was a way to charge a car battery without fear of blowing yourself up, a real danger with high powered chargers. Battery Tender was the first brand designed to maintain a charge without damaging a battery. The cheapest model is the Battery Tender Jr. There are other brands now but I would stick with a known name. They also include a "pigtail" plug. You attach it to the battery and leave the plug in an easily accessible spot. If you ride often enough and don't leave the key on for days

you probably don't need a Tender.

GregsBuddy · Post by **GregsBuddy** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:43 pm

If your battery survives that deep discharge count yourself lucky. If it survives, its life has been shortened.
When it's time to replace it, put a Lithium Ion battery in from one of the large producers. Don't just put the lowest priced one in as they are not all the same quality, just like lead-acid batteries.
The Lithium Ion battery's discharge rate during storage is 1/10 that of lead acid and will survive much longer storage times. It is far cleaner and lighter than lead acid. It costs more and worth it.

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:20 pm

GregsBuddy wrote:If your battery survives that deep discharge count yourself lucky. If it survives, its life has been shortened.
When it's time to replace it, put a Lithium Ion battery in from one of the large producers. Don't just put the lowest priced one in as they are not all the same quality, just like lead-acid batteries.
The Lithium Ion battery's discharge rate during storage is 1/10 that of lead acid and will survive much longer storage times. It is far cleaner and lighter than lead acid. It costs more and worth it.

Thanks! I will do that.

Mocha Guy 70 · Post by **Mocha Guy 70** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:23 am

I already have A Battery Tender Junior which I've never really used (bought it to charge/maintain a battery that was dead). Will it be adequate to maintain the battery on my Buddy 170i over the winter?

Would the Plus version be better?

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:20 pm

Riding often doesn't necessarily keep your battery charged. Most of my trips are 10 miles or less, and the battery can't keep up with my multiple short little hops and starts. So I use a Battery Tender Jr. regularly. If I don't, my battery charge will decline to the point of not turning over.

As mentioned previously, a completely discharged battery will likely be ruined. It may still work, but it's life has been dramatically shortened.

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:20 pm

GregsBuddy wrote:If your battery survives that deep discharge count yourself lucky. If it survives, its life has been shortened.
When it's time to replace it, put a Lithium Ion battery in from one of the large producers. Don't just put the lowest priced one in as they are not all the same quality, just like lead-acid batteries.
The Lithium Ion battery's discharge rate during storage is 1/10 that of lead acid and will survive much longer storage times. It is far cleaner and lighter than lead acid. It costs more and worth it.

Quick question, if I buy a lithium ion battery can I use the battery tender if needed on it?

I ended up getting my own battery tender jr. so I have that. It fully charged my battery by this morning but I was leaving and couldn't ride so I took the battery tender jr. off and when I came home 4 hours later and tried to start it wouldn't start. I should have left the battery tender jr. on it but I'm guessing that the battery is not going to last.

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:23 pm

Looking online in case I need to buy one --- were is the best place to buy a lithium ion battery and how can I be sure I get the right one? I know it takes a 12V battery.

Mocha Guy 70 · Post by **Mocha Guy 70** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:29 pm

Thanks for the advice!

I ride every other day or so, and usually burn a full tank of gas, or at least half a tank, so It always starts right up. I won't be riding in the winter (not much, anyway), or in the rain, so I know there are going to be some bigger gaps between rides pretty soon, and I'll want to keep the charger on it during those periods.

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:43 pm

Ok it's working now. I knew it has some battery power because the lights went on when I turned it on. But it wouldn't start. So I put the battery tender jr. back on and it was full green in a few minutes. Then I realized the kill switch was on

. Going to ride now.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:21 am

harmony101017 wrote:
GregsBuddy wrote:If your battery survives that deep discharge count yourself lucky. If it survives, its life has been shortened.
When it's time to replace it, put a Lithium Ion battery in from one of the large producers. Don't just put the lowest priced one in as they are not all the same quality, just like lead-acid batteries.
The Lithium Ion battery's discharge rate during storage is 1/10 that of lead acid and will survive much longer storage times. It is far cleaner and lighter than lead acid. It costs more and worth it.
Quick question, if I buy a lithium ion battery can I use the battery tender if needed on it?

I ended up getting my own battery tender jr. so I have that. It fully charged my battery by this morning but I was leaving and couldn't ride so I took the battery tender jr. off and when I came home 4 hours later and tried to start it wouldn't start. I should have left the battery tender jr. on it but I'm guessing that the battery is not going to last.

If in the future you do get a lithium battery, DO NOT attempt to charge it using the Battery Tender Jr as it is not designed for lithium batteries. Doing so may cause the battery to explode. Lithium batteries require special chargers designed for lithium chemistry.

Since I've been known to wear suspenders with my belt, I keep a small lithium polymer (LiPo) battery pack thats about the size of a couple of Hostess Twinkies in the pet carrier just in case my main battery dies. I have a pigtail connector hanging off both batteries to make it easy to plug-in the emergency pack. Starts the engine up faster than the main battery can because the LiPo battery can sustain a much higher discharge current, i.e., no voltage drop during engine start.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:02 pm

harmony101017 wrote:Ok it's working now. I knew it has some battery power because the lights went on when I turned it on. But it wouldn't start. So I put the battery tender jr. back on and it was full green in a few minutes. Then I realized the kill switch was on . Going to ride now.

Of course, you've gotten great advice from those in the know here, I wouldn't sweat it too much now as you've got the scooter running. Use your tender periodicly if you're not going to be riding regularly, ie; cold weather. I say this as I once did the same with mine and left mine with the key on to discharge a practly brand new battery some three years or more ago and have not really *yet* seen any issue.

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:18 pm

babblefish wrote:
harmony101017 wrote:
GregsBuddy wrote:If your battery survives that deep discharge count yourself lucky. If it survives, its life has been shortened.
When it's time to replace it, put a Lithium Ion battery in from one of the large producers. Don't just put the lowest priced one in as they are not all the same quality, just like lead-acid batteries.
The Lithium Ion battery's discharge rate during storage is 1/10 that of lead acid and will survive much longer storage times. It is far cleaner and lighter than lead acid. It costs more and worth it.
Quick question, if I buy a lithium ion battery can I use the battery tender if needed on it?

I ended up getting my own battery tender jr. so I have that. It fully charged my battery by this morning but I was leaving and couldn't ride so I took the battery tender jr. off and when I came home 4 hours later and tried to start it wouldn't start. I should have left the battery tender jr. on it but I'm guessing that the battery is not going to last.
If in the future you do get a lithium battery, DO NOT attempt to charge it using the Battery Tender Jr as it is not designed for lithium batteries. Doing so may cause the battery to explode. Lithium batteries require special chargers designed for lithium chemistry.

Since I've been known to wear suspenders with my belt, I keep a small lithium polymer (LiPo) battery pack thats about the size of a couple of Hostess Twinkies in the pet carrier just in case my main battery dies. I have a pigtail connector hanging off both batteries to make it easy to plug-in the emergency pack. Starts the engine up faster than the main battery can because the LiPo battery can sustain a much higher discharge current, i.e., no voltage drop during engine start.

Thank you that's what I wanted to know. I suspected they were not compatible.

Also where do you buy your batteries? When I google search for lithium ion battery for genuine buddy it's not clear to me how to know I would be buying the right thing. The buddy manual and website don't help much. I may not buy one yet but I would like to be ready to know what I'm doing if the need arises.

This is my first foray into mechanical anything but it's my Buddy and am darned well going to learn the right way to care for it. I love my Buddy!

I went an an hour and a half ride yesterday to make up for not getting to ride the last few days. It was soooooooo much fun.

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:20 pm

KABarash wrote:
harmony101017 wrote:Ok it's working now. I knew it has some battery power because the lights went on when I turned it on. But it wouldn't start. So I put the battery tender jr. back on and it was full green in a few minutes. Then I realized the kill switch was on . Going to ride now.
Of course, you've gotten great advice from those in the know here, I wouldn't sweat it too much now as you've got the scooter running. Use your tender periodicly if you're not going to be riding regularly, ie; cold weather. I say this as I once did the same with mine and left mine with the key on to discharge a practly brand new battery some three years or more ago and have not really *yet* seen any issue.

Good to know. Thank you.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:23 pm

harmony101017 wrote:
babblefish wrote:
harmony101017 wrote: Quick question, if I buy a lithium ion battery can I use the battery tender if needed on it?

I ended up getting my own battery tender jr. so I have that. It fully charged my battery by this morning but I was leaving and couldn't ride so I took the battery tender jr. off and when I came home 4 hours later and tried to start it wouldn't start. I should have left the battery tender jr. on it but I'm guessing that the battery is not going to last.
If in the future you do get a lithium battery, DO NOT attempt to charge it using the Battery Tender Jr as it is not designed for lithium batteries. Doing so may cause the battery to explode. Lithium batteries require special chargers designed for lithium chemistry.

Since I've been known to wear suspenders with my belt, I keep a small lithium polymer (LiPo) battery pack thats about the size of a couple of Hostess Twinkies in the pet carrier just in case my main battery dies. I have a pigtail connector hanging off both batteries to make it easy to plug-in the emergency pack. Starts the engine up faster than the main battery can because the LiPo battery can sustain a much higher discharge current, i.e., no voltage drop during engine start.
Thank you that's what I wanted to know. I suspected they were not compatible.

Also where do you buy your batteries? When I google search for lithium ion battery for genuine buddy it's not clear to me how to know I would be buying the right thing. The buddy manual and website don't help much. I may not buy one yet but I would like to be ready to know what I'm doing if the need arises.

This is my first foray into mechanical anything but it's my Buddy and am darned well going to learn the right way to care for it. I love my Buddy!

I went an an hour and a half ride yesterday to make up for not getting to ride the last few days. It was soooooooo much fun.

Glad you're having fun riding your scooter, that's the most important part of owning one!

I've been buying my AGM-type batteries off of Amazon for between $30 and $40. They also sell lithium batteries, but you're going to be paying three or four times more for them. For the price of the AGM batteries, I'm perfectly happy to replace one every three years or so. If you live where the temperature drops to freezing or close to it, then keeping a Battery Tender plugged in when not riding is a good idea. If you don't mind spending the money, lithium batteries are more carefree. There are three main advantages to going with a lithium battery: 1) much lighter than a lead battery, 2) higher cranking voltage means faster starts, and 3) will hold a charge for months without losing a significant amount of voltage. On a somewhat related note, I have some small lithium batteries that I use in my RC (Radio Control) models that have sat unused for several years and their voltages have dropped less than half a volt in all that time.

In order to find the correct battery for your 170i (not sure if its the same battery as in my 150), look on the side of your battery for it's model number then enter that into the search function on the Amazon website. It should come up with a range of both AGM type batteries as well as lithium. Keep in mind that a lithium battery of the same (or even higher) amperage rating as your original battery will be significantly smaller. One of the more popular lithium battery manufacturers is Shorai. They have been in the game since the beginning and say their batteries can be charged with the stock charging system in new and old motorcycles and scooters. That said, even though they are quite a bit more expensive than AGM, their warranty is still only 3 years, no different than the AGM's. Even Battery Tender, the same company that makes the chargers, offers lithium scooter batteries.

harmony101017 · Post by **harmony101017** » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:34 pm

Thank you for all that battery info! I really appreciate it. I am in PA and it does get cold here. I will see how this battery lasts and take it from there.