Buddy 125 gear oil question

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zach976
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Buddy 125 gear oil question

Post by zach976 »

New to scooters. I just bought my wife a used 2013 Buddy 125. I went to my local Genuine dealer to buy engine oil/filter and gear oil. I got the correct engine oil/filter but they sold me 80w90 gear oil. The manual states the gearbox requires SAE 140. Is the 80w90 okay to use or should I take it back and get the correct oil? We live in Texas and it's 90-100 degrees during the day. Thanks for any input.
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MGM
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Post by MGM »

85W-140
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KrispyKreme
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Post by KrispyKreme »

Yeah, I had a dealer that said he put 80w90 in everything. Great advice. :?

85w140 is correct. As far a brand, I use Belray with fine results. You can go all out and get Motul synthetic, but I thinks it is a bit overkill for the purpose.
zach976
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Post by zach976 »

Thanks for the advice. I picked up the correct oil from another dealer and returned the oil they sold me. The lady seemed totally confused when I returned the oil and told her it was the wrong weight. You think they would know, since they are selling the scooters.
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KrispyKreme
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Post by KrispyKreme »

zach976 wrote: You think they would know, since they are selling the scooters.

NEVER EVER ASSUME THIS. :)
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jrstone
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Post by jrstone »

KrispyKreme wrote:
zach976 wrote: You think they would know, since they are selling the scooters.

NEVER EVER ASSUME THIS. :)
Sadly, this is true with nearly everything you buy.
zach976
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Post by zach976 »

Another quick question about checking the engine oil. To get the correct oil level on the dipstick, should the scooter be on the center stand, side stand or holding it up level. I noticed that you get a different level in all three positions.
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Dooglas
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Post by Dooglas »

I check mine on the center stand. I would think checking while on the side stand would create the largest error.
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Neurotic-Hapi-Snak
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Post by Neurotic-Hapi-Snak »

I believe it's centerstand, while the engine is warm (just run). Don't remove the dipstick while the engine is running, I made this mistake. Oil mist sprayed out a good 15 ft, onto my brother's new white Buick.

I've used Supertech (Walmart) gear oil before with no problems, the semi-syn 75w-90. I believe they sell a conv and syn 85w-140. Gear oil is gear oil, there really is no MC specific gear oil. The only thing you have to look out for is GL-4 and GL-5, they are not interchangeable. For a GL-4 spec you can use GL-4 or a dual rated GL-4/5, but not GL-5. Vice versa for GL-5 spec. GL-4 is safe for yellow metals (brass/bronze), GL-5 can corrode yellow metals in a gearbox not designed for it. For example my Toyota has brass synchros in the manual transmission, but specs GL-5, meaning Toyota used a brass alloy not susceptible to corrosion from GL-5.
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jd
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Post by jd »

When you replace the drain bolt for the gear oil, DO NOT USE A TORQUE WRENCH TO TIGHTEN IT. The aluminum threads in the case are not that strong, and it doesn't take much to strip them. Just tighten the bolt with an open end wrench and don't try to make it squeal when you do.

You find will multiple mentions on this forum of people stripping the threads and being unable to tighten the bolt again properly. There are various ways to repair this, but I have followed the advice of a couple of members and just used a slightly longer screw with the same M8 thread. Worked like a charm and only cost me the $0.98!

But you can avoid the problem entirely by just not over-tightening it in the first place.

And if you want a really easy way to put the new oil into the gearbox, get yourself one of these. (Toss out the hose at the end.) It's exactly the right size and will make the entire job a two minute affair.
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KrispyKreme
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Post by KrispyKreme »

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:I believe it's centerstand, while the engine is warm (just run). Don't remove the dipstick while the engine is running, I made this mistake. Oil mist sprayed out a good 15 ft, onto my brother's new white Buick.
Buick probably looked better afterwards.
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Post by Dooglas »

jd wrote:When you replace the drain bolt for the gear oil, DO NOT USE A TORQUE WRENCH TO TIGHTEN IT. The aluminum threads in the case are not that strong, and it doesn't take much to strip them. Just tighten the bolt with an open end wrench and don't try to make it squeal when you do.
Isn't the whole point of a torque wrench to tighten a bolt to it's design spec and no more? No reason that you should avoid using a torque wrench as long as you know the correct torque setting.
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jd
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Post by jd »

Dooglas wrote:
jd wrote:When you replace the drain bolt for the gear oil, DO NOT USE A TORQUE WRENCH TO TIGHTEN IT. The aluminum threads in the case are not that strong, and it doesn't take much to strip them. Just tighten the bolt with an open end wrench and don't try to make it squeal when you do.
Isn't the whole point of a torque wrench to tighten a bolt to it's design spec and no more? No reason that you should avoid using a torque wrench as long as you know the correct torque setting.
You certainly would think so, which is why I used one for the job. And, yes, I know how to use the right setting. I'm hearing from a lot of sources (belatedly) that aluminum threads are best tightened manually. This advice comes from experienced mechanics, of which I am not.
Some people are like slinkies. They're not very interesting, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
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Dooglas
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Post by Dooglas »

jd wrote: I'm hearing from a lot of sources (belatedly) that aluminum threads are best tightened manually.
I would hardly claim to be a great expert myself, but I certainly know more than one person who has stripped an aluminum or alloy thread while tightening a fastener by hand. Torque wrench, conventional socket wrench, or box wrench (whatever you use) - it is still necessary to avoid excessive torqueing of an alloy thread. The only difference with a torque wrench is that you know how much force you are applying. If you stripped a thread while applying less torque that speced in the shop manual for the bike, I'd guess the thread had been previously damaged.
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jd
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Post by jd »

Dooglas wrote:
jd wrote: I'm hearing from a lot of sources (belatedly) that aluminum threads are best tightened manually.
I would hardly claim to be a great expert myself, but I certainly know more than one person who has stripped an aluminum or alloy thread while tightening a fastener by hand. Torque wrench, conventional socket wrench, or box wrench (whatever you use) - it is still necessary to avoid excessive torqueing of an alloy thread. The only difference with a torque wrench is that you know how much force you are applying. If you stripped a thread while applying less torque that speced in the shop manual for the bike, I'd guess the thread had been previously damaged.
Excellent points. I think what it comes down to is that I feel pretty confident about knowing how the right tightness should "feel." With the torque wrench, I couldn't really "feel" anything because the entire contraption was so ungainly and the extra length (versus a box wrench) made it way too easy to apply too much leverage without realizing it.

Thanks for your feedback.
Some people are like slinkies. They're not very interesting, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
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Mbates50
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Post by Mbates50 »

Just changed mine. Used 85/140, on the center stand, tightened it snugly with a ratchet wrench.

The only hassle is pouring the oil into a nearly horizontal opening. I made a long funnel type thing out of tin foil. Worked fine.

Just put in the same amount that came out. I used a glass measuring cup and made a mark on it with with a Sharpie.
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jd
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Post by jd »

Nope, don't put in the same amount that you took out. If you lost some along the way, then you won't be putting enough back in. The spec is 90-100 cc, I believe.

You can handle the horizontal opening problem with the injector to which I linked, above. It's one of the most useful tools I've bought for working on the Buddy.
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Post by Dooglas »

jd wrote:With the torque wrench, I couldn't really "feel" anything because the entire contraption was so ungainly and the extra length (versus a box wrench) made it way too easy to apply too much leverage without realizing it.
If you were using one of the older beam type torque wrenches, I agree with your point that they are somewhat awkward to use. The newer "click" type torque wrenches are a big improvement in ease of use in my opinion. If you have the experience and touch to apply about the right torque by feel, nothing wrong with that. Success is always good. :wink:
Last edited by Dooglas on Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by charlie55 »

A lot of it depends on the accuracy of the torque wrench and the component's capacity to withstand over-torquing. For heavy-duty stuff such as variator, clutch, and axle nuts, I reach for the torque wrench since they're all pretty much steel-on-steel and a few pounds extra doesn't do any harm. Whenever there's aluminum involved, I make a witness mark on the bolt and case before removal. Re-installation is then done with a non-torque wrench, tightening until the witness marks re-align, and perhaps just a smidgen more.
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Post by Mbates50 »

jd wrote:Nope, don't put in the same amount that you took out. If you lost some along the way, then you won't be putting enough back in. The spec is 90-100 cc, I believe.

You can handle the horizontal opening problem with the injector to which I linked, above. It's one of the most useful tools I've bought for working on the Buddy.
When you do it as I described, you lose none.

However having a backup if things go awry is a good idea. A turkey baster will work too. They have measurements on the side. 90cc is 3.04 fluid ounces.
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Post by KrispyKreme »

jd wrote:Nope, don't put in the same amount that you took out. If you lost some along the way, then you won't be putting enough back in. The spec is 90-100 cc, I believe.

You can handle the horizontal opening problem with the injector to which I linked, above. It's one of the most useful tools I've bought for working on the Buddy.
Drain. Measure. Refill. I always get 100cc. I'm in for 3 changes. Always 100ccs on the dot in the drain cup. Non lost. This isn't engine oil.
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Post by BlackRider125 »

Hey JD,

Where did you get that longer drain bolt for .98 cents??? I need one badly! How much longer are we talking should the new bolt be, and did you encounter a problem trying to thread it past the damaged threads? Is there a trick, or just keep twisting?
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Post by BlackRider125 »

No worries, I was able to get it!

I went to autozone today and bought a M8 1.25 16mm flange bolt to replace the M8 1.25 12mm flange bolt and then I purchased a soft metal 5/16 washer (M8 equivalent). Came home, and daubed a q-tip gently up in the case with a little gear oil on it looking for any more loose shavings and got two small flecks. could not get any more, so then I threaded the new bolt and washer on and it fit like a glove! Went for a ride and no leaks!

I would be in real trouble without this thread - so I wanted to say thank you again!!!!
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Post by Mike1nw »

My 2009 Buddy 125 OM says, be sure scooter is on level ground. I think it should be on its wheels. This is true for my Burgman 400 too. Which makes for an awkward oil check- a telescoping mirror is needed to see the sight glass. For the Buddy, I guess it takes 2 people? How do you hold the scooter upright and pull the dipstick...
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Post by babblefish »

Center stand.
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Post by Mike1nw »

/\ OK, I'll buy that. The OM doesn't state specifically.

Just like it states, 22 psi front and 25 psi rear, and the seat sticker sez 30 psi for both. :?
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