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Does your Roughhouse sometimes not turn over properly?

 
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dkw12002
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 112
Location: New Braunfels, TX
2015 FZ-07, 2014 Vespa 300, 2013 Zero S

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Does your Roughhouse sometimes not turn over properly? Reply with quote

About every 3rd time I try to start my Roughhouse, I get this different whirring sound that is not turning the engine over. I stop pressing the starter button and the second time it turns over and fires up fine. I had a Scarabeo 100 that did this too on occasion, but I'm not sure what it is. Something to do with the starter obviously. Anybody else have this?
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VinylDoctor
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Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 173
Location: Las Vegas, Nv

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: Does your Roughhouse sometimes not turn over properly? Reply with quote

dkw12002 wrote:
About every 3rd time I try to start my Roughhouse, I get this different whirring sound that is not turning the engine over. I stop pressing the starter button and the second time it turns over and fires up fine. I had a Scarabeo 100 that did this too on occasion, but I'm not sure what it is. Something to do with the starter obviously. Anybody else have this?


weak starter spring?
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OldGuy
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Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Everett, WA
Roughhouse R50, Vespa LX50

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2012 Roughhouse is a perfect starter always. Starts up instantly, never a hitch. I assumed this was normal. In fact from the first, I have always admired how willingly it starts. Wish some of my other bikes were like that...

Can you describe the noise? Do you think the battery is in good shape? How many miles on it? (Mine has about 1600.)

_________________
1971 Hodaka Ace 100
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
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dkw12002
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 112
Location: New Braunfels, TX
2015 FZ-07, 2014 Vespa 300, 2013 Zero S

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. The noise is a whirring sound, but the engine is not turning over since there is no sound or feel of compression....no chugging or slow turning over or just clicking like I would expect from a weak or dying battery. When I stop pressing the starter and re-press it, the motor turns over fast and well and then I can hear the compression, and it starts quickly and normally. I'm pretty sure that the whirring sound is the starter motor turning but not engaging the engine. Perhaps the gear of the starter motor is not meshing with the engine properly if it works the same as a car starter motor. Haha. I found this too. Notice the mechanic in the video calls it a "whirring sound" too..... http://www.ehow.com/video_4874554_do-motor-starters-work_.html

I first thought it might be due to not squeezing the brake lever well enough, but that isn't it cause I've been careful to squeeze the brake lever well, however I still run into the problem. Since it's a new bike with a 2-year warranty and I have a backup kick starter if I should need it and it always starts with the second attempt even if it didn't on the first, I think I'll just watch it for now. Also since it's an off-and-on event, chances are good I can't demonstrate it to a mechanic when I want to...yet.

Whatever the whirring sound is, I had the exact same thing with a Scarabeo a couple years ago. There too, the scoot would start on the second attempt.
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OldGuy
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Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Everett, WA
Roughhouse R50, Vespa LX50

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the starter is turning (the whirring sound), but not actually engaging with the motor. Seems like what you are describing. Then, then next time you try, the starter is thrown into engagement and all is well. Starters normally are not engaged with the engine all the time. Ones I am familiar with have a mechanical or relay-operated mechanism that pushes their output gear into engagement with the engine when the starter button is pressed.

The first time you try, the engagement mechanism may not slide out properly, but, in trying, it las been losened up and heated a little from friction. The next time you try, it is able to move correctly and the whole thing works.

I am not sure about these starters, but normally the engagement mechanism is integral with the starter. Likely replacing the starter is needed.

Or, could be the starter and the engine are not aligned quite right. I wonder if loosening the bolts that hold the starter, just enought to get the starter loose enough to move a little with moderate force (not floppy loose), then try to start it. If it works, shut the engine back off and tighten the bolts there. My thinking is that this might help the starter get itself aligned, if this is the problem.

Other possible causes are stripped or worn teeth on the engine where the starter is supposed to engage (seems unlikely), or some mechanical interference that prevents the starter from engaging.

Overall, I would guess that a new starter will be the cure. I hope others will comment who have played with these specific starters. Good luck!

_________________
1971 Hodaka Ace 100
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
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OldGuy
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Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Everett, WA
Roughhouse R50, Vespa LX50

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, since it is under warranty, I'd have your shop fix it soon. This is so that you have more warranty left in case such a problem develops again.

And, if the starter turns at all, even just the whirring sound, then you don't need to squeeze the brake lever any harder. You are doing it right.

_________________
1971 Hodaka Ace 100
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
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dkw12002
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 112
Location: New Braunfels, TX
2015 FZ-07, 2014 Vespa 300, 2013 Zero S

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, OldGuy.
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tbswope
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Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 31
Location: Charleston, IL
2014 Roughhouse 50

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was curious how this turned out for you. I just bought two new RH50s about two weeks ago and one is doing the exact thing you are describing.
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dkw12002
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 112
Location: New Braunfels, TX
2015 FZ-07, 2014 Vespa 300, 2013 Zero S

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I traded the R50 scooter in on a 2014 Vespa 300 and I never found out what caused it. I had a Scarabeo 100 that did that exact same thing a couple of years ago. It's almost a dead battery sound like the starter motor isn't getting enough voltage to crank but when it does crank, it cranks fine, so it's not the battery. The Scarabeo was new too when it did the same thing. Something with the starter motor I guess.
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Stinkdyr
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Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 124
Location: Boston
RH50

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is the pinion gear not engaging with the driveshaft to crank over the engine sometimes. It is sort of normal for the solenoid to get tired.....maybe as the starter gets old it does it more often. Nothing to panic about. Just rock the bike forward or back a few inches and try again in 15 seconds.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD5Q_PF3pM
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dkw12002
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 112
Location: New Braunfels, TX
2015 FZ-07, 2014 Vespa 300, 2013 Zero S

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That analysis sounds plausible, but since the scooter was essentially brand new when it started doing that, I did worry a bit about it...enough to trade the scooter in at least. My experience with mechanical things not working exactly right is that they continue to not work quite right for as long as you own the equipment....cars, scooters, motorcycles. I never seem to be able to get anything fixed. In this case I really didn't try though. Trading in is SO much easier.
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tbswope
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Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 31
Location: Charleston, IL
2014 Roughhouse 50

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got around to taking my scooter in for this and it was taken care of under warranty. The paper work I got from the dealer says part is idler gear starter drive and labor description is replace starter bendix.
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SlickRick
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Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 17
Location: Boston
Buddy 150

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All genuine 50cc's do this. It is normal and gets better as the breaks in. The idler gear gets slung into position by centripetal force. Sometimes the first push doesn't break the sticktion. I am surprised the dealer warranty'd this as its most likely be a regular occurrence.
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elektrobank
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Joined: 03 Aug 2015
Posts: 12


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the same problem since the day I bought it. Every now and then I have to kick start it to get it going too. So far it's just been more of an annoyance, so I'm just going to wait to have it fixed when I go for my first service.
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tbswope
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Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 31
Location: Charleston, IL
2014 Roughhouse 50

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlickRick wrote:
All genuine 50cc's do this. It is normal and gets better as the breaks in. The idler gear gets slung into position by centripetal force. Sometimes the first push doesn't break the sticktion. I am surprised the dealer warranty'd this as its most likely be a regular occurrence.


I bought two roughhouses on the same day and one has never done this and the other started doing it as soon as we got it home.
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Pascal
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Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Canada
2010 PGO PMX Naked 50cc

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My PGO PMX Naked, which is the same as the Rattler has done this from new as well. Has anyone been able to fix this by removing the starter and sanding or filing to improve the engagement? I've got over 4000KM on it now. The starter only engages after its up to operating temperature. When cold it just spins and I always have to kick start it.
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tbswope
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Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 31
Location: Charleston, IL
2014 Roughhouse 50

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pascal wrote:
My PGO PMX Naked, which is the same as the Rattler has done this from new as well. Has anyone been able to fix this by removing the starter and sanding or filing to improve the engagement? I've got over 4000KM on it now. The starter only engages after its up to operating temperature. When cold it just spins and I always have to kick start it.

What the dealer did to mine fixed the issue. The one thing I noticed was if I rolled the bike and then tried again it would catch I didn't have to kick start.
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