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Just had 2nd scooter accident in a week - what's happening?

 
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phenomenalworld
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Location: Los Angeles, United States
2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject: Just had 2nd scooter accident in a week - what's happening? Reply with quote

Two hours ago I survived my 2nd scooter fall in a week, the only two I’ve had in 5 months of a lot of riding. I’m OK, although my Buddy is not happy with the cosmetic damage to her features. Five days ago, I was coming to a stop at a light here in LA, not even going very fast in the first place, and next I know, the bike slides out from under and lands on its side. I wasn't hurt at all, though the bike took a few minor scrapes. It happened so fast, and I could not come up with any reason of how or why it happened. I chalked it up to very odd chance, a mystery of the dynamics of physics, I guess. Then, just an hour ago, once again I was coming to a stop at the light when the bike slid out from under me. Maybe I was coming to a faster halt this time, but nothing dramatic. I was thrown onto the street (a lady later told me it looked like a stunt right out of a movie, like I knew what I was doing covering my body in the dive, but I just did whatever I did without thinking). I got up quick - I was at a very busy intersection - went to grab the bike and get it up of its side and it took off without me and slid around some more on the street (yes I should've hit the kill switch), leaking gasoline. Finally managed to get it up onto the sidewalk where many friendly caring LA residents came to make sure I was okay. Luckily I was. Good thing I had on good gloves and padded leather jacket.

So…my question to you all is: what the hell is going on? Can’t say I know much about scooter tech, but I’m gonna guess the front break is locking up, although I’m not sure what that means exactly. But I intuit it maybe makes some sense. In any case, seems too much to chalk up to coincidence, these two very similar incidents/accidents this week. Not gonna ride it again until either someone here tells me what’s wrong and/or how to fix it, or barring that, I bring it into a mechanic. If it’s something I could adjust or fix without spending money on a mechanic, my poor pockets are all for it. But safety first of course, so will spend whatever need be. Also, besides the scooter taking a good scraping of my precious DIY custom paint job, the mirrors got all pushed out of position. I just tried unthreading/rethreading them, but they lock straight back into a position that is too far back (on one) and too far forward (on the other) making them dysfunctional. Any suggestions for how I can properly re-adjust them to how they were is very welcome too. Is it all left to chance of where they happen to reach their tightest screwed in position?

Thanks for any and all input.


Last edited by phenomenalworld on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Syd
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you happen to have the bars turned in these cases (assuming the front lockup is true)? Do you tend to ride fast? Is there dirt or oil on the road where you stop? Some more info would help.
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I had the handlebars turned in either case. I ride fast and slow, depending on the flow of traffic, but as mentioned, I was coming to a stop, and wasn't riding very fast before the stop. In both cases, I looked for dirt/oil. Best I could sleuth was that there were customary traffic/crosswalk lines painted on the street, which I suppose could cause slippage, but they weren't wet. Any education about why breaks might lock, and/or what the relation therein is to turned handlebars is welcome.

Last edited by phenomenalworld on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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johnk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I'm glad you're okay, and I hope you don't let it shake you.

I don't know enough to say whether there might be something wrong with your scooter. What I can say is that I have learned that braking can be a fairly complicated balance of several factors, and our braking habits can be a little stubborn against achieving that balance. (My main source here is David L. Hough's Proficient Motorcycling.) Most importantly, I've learned (and am of course still learning) to apply the brakes progressively and to go easy on the rear brake.

I truly don't want to kick your abilities while you're down, so I say all of this uncritically and with respect, and with the caveat that I know nothing about your riding habits or any of the external factors of your ride.

The "out from under" part makes it sound like it was your rear tire that slipped in both cases. The movie-stunt crash sounds like a "highsider," also caused by a rear-tire slip-out, where the bike whips down on its side and throws you over in the process. If so, then it's possible that you're using a little too much rear brake and/or using it too quickly. Here's the relevant passage from Proficient Motorcycling, p. 71:

Quote:
While many riders are paranoid about sliding the front tire, the greatest danger from overbraking is not on the front but on the rear. The danger is flipping yourself into a painful highside crash if the bike slides sideways during a quick stop. If the rider overbrakes on the rear and the rear end starts sliding out to one side, the unfortunate survival reaction is often to let up on the pedal [or hand lever] to reduce the skid. But when the tire regains traction and spins up, it snaps the rear end back toward center so violently it can flip the bike over the high side.

Highside flips are simple to avoid. Just stay in the habit of using more front brake than rear brake all the time. [...]
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, thanks. Am not shaken very badly actually, more pissed my paint job and mirrors are all mussed, and more concerned with how to avoid these falls and pitfalls in the future. Interesting to get your take, firstly that there may be nothing wrong with the scoot itself, but just how I'm breaking. It's possible, I reckon, although still hard to account for these two freak, similar occurrences within a week whereas otherwise smooth sailing. I like your description of the highsider "where the bike whips down on its side and throws you over in the process". i mean, that's exactly what happened. I appreciate your quoting the Proficient Motorcycling bible - inspiring verses and/or good-to-know stuff. I will say I MAY have noticed lately - not long before both these two spills - that my rear break isn't all that effective unless i really squeeze it to a full pinch, whereas the front break is much more responsive even half-pressed. Maybe I didn't really ever test or take notice of the rear in isolation, or maybe overall wear has eroded its function somewhat. Anyway I only mention it in case your or any other detective here could find significance and relationship here regarding my recent troubles.
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New2Scoots
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your tires are 5 years old they may not have the grip they once had. I know that motorcycle tires are supposed to be replaced every 5 years because they lose grip over time. Probably depends on brand. My MC tires are 5 years old & still very grippy.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realignment of your mirrors is simple. You need a 14 mm wrench to do it. Unscrew the tightening collar arou d the base of the mirrors all the way. Screw in the mirrors as far down as you can get them before they won't go any farther then back them out to where you want them set. Then tighten the tightening collar until they are locked in place where you want them. Remember, the right side mirror (I believe it's the right side) has a reversed thread so it's left tightly, right loosie.
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Christophers
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't happen to ArmorAll (or equivalent) your tires did you?
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ucandoit
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are certain road conditions that I am very leery of because of near instant slippage of the back wheel, even at very slow speeds; and one of these is the white Paint of Crosswalks. Esp. if they are wet. Also, the sealant that is commonly used on many of our roads is also very slippery. I actually now put my foot out in case the back tire loses traction on a curve. My tires are new and I still slip on those surfaces, even at very slow speeds. I'm assuming also that you use both brakes to slow down.
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Stanza
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to ask this, but when is the last time you checked your tire pressure? I've had bikes slip out when the tire was too soft, and it deformed on braking.

Barring that, what were the pavement conditions? Dry, rain, etc? You might have hit a patch of oil left by an ailing vehicle.
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Rayc11949
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I'm a fairly new rider I've been very wary of street conditions. And I have to echo what ucandoit says, that even when the pavement looks fine I'm found slippery conditions. Another thing that my mechanic explained to me is that the rear brake is drum while the front is disc and its a little tricky to get the right amount of brake pressure to make a nice even stop.
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johnk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to hear it. I've heard good things about scooterpaint.com for the cosmetics.

If your rear brake shoes are worn, that could be the culprit, or at least a major factor in these crashes. As you're coming to a stop, they might be providing zero stopping power for the majority of the braking process (because the shoes aren't making contact), and then suddenly grab at the very end (where you reach the full pinch), which very well could cause the rear tire to slip, especially since more of your weight is on the front end while stopping. A new set of shoes is fairly inexpensive and might make a big difference.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rider error?
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k1dude
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you take an MSF course near you. It will teach you all about road conditions and where to ride in a lane and what to look out for. Along with a whole bunch of other safe riding info. It's money well spent and will likely save your life.

The problem you encountered both times is surface oil. It built up over the long dry spring/summer/fall in California when there's no rain to wash it away. You can't see it, but it's there. Especially at intersections coming to a stop. You don't even need to be going that fast as you're braking.

Not only is there oil build-up from cars, but also the pavement itself. It bubbles to the surface and gets shoved forward during all the hot days of summer and forms a big lump of thick slick oil where everyone stops and their tires shove it forward into the lump. Sometimes you can see the physical lump, but sometimes you can't. But one thing is for sure, it's slick.

That surface oil also coats the road paint and makes it almost as slick as if it were wet. Never ride on the road paint, especially when braking.

You need to make sure you also NEVER ride in the middle of the lane where most of the oil is and NEVER try to stop in the middle of the lane. You should always be riding in the tire tracks on either side of the lane.

Also pay attention if a road is newly paved or repaired. The new asphalt is oily and slick. It's expecially bad if they used a chip and seal repair where they spray a thick layer of oil over the surface.

If you ride through a repaired surface without paying attention and then try to stop quickly on a normal surface, you'll go down FAST! The oil from riding through the repair section will have covered your tires even though you rode through it several miles back. If you do a hard lean into a turn or try to stop quickly with that oil on your tires, you'll be slapping the pavement with your face lickety split.

That's the problem with slick roads whether it's from oil, water, or a tiny bit of gravel. You'll go down FAST! Like in the blink of an eye.

Always scan and always be alert. Not only for other vehicles and animals, but for road conditions.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the left (as if you were sitting on the scooter) sidewall of the rear tire and also the wheel hub for signs of transmission lube leakage (shiny,oily film). This can occur if the lube is overfilled or if you have a bad/failing seal. The lube splatters all over that side when you're riding and will slick up the tire pretty badly.
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when i originally posted, was fully expecting (or just plain hoping?) someone/someones would pipe in with some obvious observation/answer/solution, as i perceived the situation as clearly unique, in that i’ve put 2500 miles on this bike without this issue, and within 50 miles of riding this week the same thing happened twice, in exactly the same way, without anything unusual in the circumstances, no provocation to the spills - was simply coming to a simple stop at a low speed. and i consider myself a pretty safe & sensible driver, though always can improve my ride. but, given the feedback y’all have given me, i must apply a new scope to my thinking….

stanza - tire pressure! i just came back from filling up the tires. they were both at 28. i goosed them back up to 32. is 28 sinfully low? i have been re-airing them about once a month, which, i know, is not enough. each time i did this, they were down to 28. do others agree this could be (at least partially) the culprit? perhaps it’s a hodgepodge of things….

other tire facts: scooter is a 2012, but only had 1300 miles on it when i got it. so, tires are over 5 years, but not much use, and no, no ArmorAll on them. i don’t sense they’ve lost any grip, although i also don’t sense much grip or traction in the overall design - smooth overall with inward grooves. the seller of this used scoot lied about several things, so it's possible the tires are not the originals (as it's even possible that somehow the odometer is not accurate on miles itself - that's a whole other can of meat). perhaps i should snap a photo and post here for you guys' inspection.

what were the pavement conditions? dry. hasn’t rained here in 2 weeks, which was LA’s first rain of the season. i didn’t notice anything outstanding at either “crash site”. but it’s not like i did a thorough investigation.

i use both brakes to slow down.

1dude, from how you describe it, sounds like the roads are merely death traps in waiting, but of course i know these are plain realities any of us ride must be aware of. thanks to all for these tips on rider safety, always good to be reminded and catch a new angle on some instruction. as time moves on from yesterday’s spill, i realize i am a bit more shaken that i thought. as in a bit scared. but not too much. i also realized my shoulder hurts a fair bit, must’ve took the brunt of my fall, and that if i wasn’t wearing my new (used) Fieldsheer leather jacket w/ armor, the damage might’ve been waaaayyy worse, but the shoulder pads did their duty well. so i am one more piece of walking proof and testament to the virtues of wearing solid protection.

charlie55, i don’t see any lube leakage but thanks.

john, perhaps my rear shoes are worn and this is in part the culprit and will need to replace. thanks for the the link. how difficult and/or time-consuming is it to replace them myself?
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, and cummings, the mirrors...i must've had a momentary laps of reasoning, still be slightly deranged from the crash. the tightening collar! of course! i simply wasn't thinking clearly. thanks for straightening me out. i just realigned them, good as new. thanks!!!
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johnk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not mechanically familiar with the Buddy, but I figure the first step should be to adjust the rear brake screw before buying or dismantling anything, and see if that makes a difference.

If not, then (as far as I know) you would just remove the rear wheel and then replace the shoes like this. Because I'm not an expert, I encourage your own due diligence! And the user manual should say how often the shoes need to be replaced.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda agree with Dave. Sounds like rider error. Rider error can be fixed by taking the Basic Rider Course from MSF.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnk wrote:
The "out from under" part makes it sound like it was your rear tire that slipped in both cases. The movie-stunt crash sounds like a "highsider," also caused by a rear-tire slip-out, where the bike whips down on its side and throws you over in the process. If so, then it's possible that you're using a little too much rear brake and/or using it too quickly. Here's the relevant passage from Proficient Motorcycling, p. 71:

Quote:
While many riders are paranoid about sliding the front tire, the greatest danger from overbraking is not on the front but on the rear. The danger is flipping yourself into a painful highside crash if the bike slides sideways during a quick stop. If the rider overbrakes on the rear and the rear end starts sliding out to one side, the unfortunate survival reaction is often to let up on the pedal [or hand lever] to reduce the skid. But when the tire regains traction and spins up, it snaps the rear end back toward center so violently it can flip the bike over the high side.

Highside flips are simple to avoid. Just stay in the habit of using more front brake than rear brake all the time.

This is a good observation. I agree with others about the MSF Basic Course - but one of the things they will tell you is to generally brake about 60:40 front brake to rear. Now, if you have gotten into the bad habit of coming down somewhat harder on the back...…….you can get away with it most of the time, but not every time. It sets you up for problems with most of the things that have been talked about so far - paint stripes, oil sheen, a little sand, etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, if your tires are at least that old, it's time for some new rubber. It could just be a pure coincidence that you've fallen twice in a short span, but I'd get new tires to be sure. A rear wheel skid is survivable. With the rear wheel locked up, you can still steer and maintain control. I know this because I've done it. Not so with a front wheel lockup. For that reason, I'm going to guess that's what is happening to you.

Change your front tire (at least) and get a real mechanic to check your brakes, especially the front, to make certain they are not grabbing.

P.S. Mind the center of the lane, that's where the motor is on cars/trucks and that's where they drip oil. Try to stay a little to the left of the center of the lane so you're not on that oil slick. It's usually not wide, maybe a foot. When it hasn't rained for a while, you can begin to see it, then when it rains that strip will be scary slick until the rain washes the oil off.
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got busy with Holloween. I just now snapped some photos of my front and rear tire, in case anyone has an opinion, based on the visuals, of their age and wear and tear vibe. As said, the 2012 scooter supposedly only has approx 3700 total miles on it, unless previous sketchy owner somehow manipulated the odometer. Am adding photos for quick review, and meanwhile I just adjusted rear brake screw a few turns, and will test ride it soon. But wanna get any opinions on the wheels. I'll spend what I have to spend...on break shoes, new tires, mechanic's expert eye and hand, but of course don't wanna drop cash where it's not needed...

Am definitely strongly considering MSF Basic Course, if for no other reason than my slight brush or mingle with death via these spills has strengthens my will and resolve not to die or become maimed on this scooter.

Once again, you guys have been awesome and super helpful in all respect of helping me assess situation and understand me new things.


Last edited by phenomenalworld on Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

front tire
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Dooglas
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a tire problem, it is not so much with worn tread as with the rubber compound getting hard. Six years is getting old for a scooter tire.
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johnk
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can determine your tires' actual age, which might differ from the scooter's age, by finding the four-digit number in an oval on the side of the tire. The first two digits are the week and the last two are the year. For example, a tire manufactured this week would say "4418."
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
stanza - tire pressure! i just came back from filling up the tires. they were both at 28. i goosed them back up to 32. is 28 sinfully low? i have been re-airing them about once a month, which, i know, is not enough. each time i did this, they were down to 28. do others agree this could be (at least partially) the culprit? perhaps it’s a hodgepodge of things….


Anything over 25psi in the front and 27psi in the back is fine. You could even go down to 23 in the front 25 in the back and be ok. The front should have less pressure than the back, I usually run ~2-4 psi more in the back than the front. The rear tire carries most of the weight so it needs a little more pressure. The highest I go is 29 psi in the front and 33 psi in the rear, any higher and the ride starts to gets harsh, at least in my opinion. My preferred set up is 27 psi in the front and 31 psi in the rear.

If you are concerned that there is a problem with the scooter you should find someone who owns or has experience with Buddies and have them take the scooter for a ride. They should be able to figure out if there is a problem pretty quickly.

The first thing I would check is how the front brake lever "feels." At 6 years old you probably need to change the brake fluid or at least bleed it.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
oh, and cummings, the mirrors...i must've had a momentary laps of reasoning, still be slightly deranged from the crash. the tightening collar! of course! i simply wasn't thinking clearly. thanks for straightening me out. i just realigned them, good as new. thanks!!!


No problem and glad to nudge you in the right direction. I have my moments of "oh yeah, I already knew that" all the time. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been down 4 times. 3 times farting around doing silly stuff. The last time I hit 4 deep man holes in a row causing me to be forcefully ejected. I have on several occasions washed the front tire out from under me pulling up to a stop with loose sand or gravel present.
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

“If you are concerned that there is a problem with the scooter you should find someone who owns or has experience with Buddies”.

So that's is what I did today. Better safe than sorry. Gonna capsulize the take-aways here, for whatever their worth (clarity, posterity, notes to my future self, etc) as I thought they were interesting. There’s a dude here in LA who’s one of the main scooter repairmen in the area. He grew up in a bike shop, has terribly good and many reviews on yelp (noted for his expertise, decent prices, friendliness, plus he makes housecalls). Within 10 minutes of inspecting my scoot, he said there’s nothing wrong with it - tires and breaks got plenty of life left, the thing rode fine. He did find that the rev speed was unusually high, and for this he cleaned the carbs and adjusted the revenator or whatever you call it. He guessed my two spills were from using the rear break too much in one fashion or another, maybe mixed with some oily goop on the street. Makes as much sense as anything, I guess. Said the rear break should not be used for stopping really at all, or at best 30/70 rear/front. Said rear break is basically to keep your bike from moving when it’s stopped, like on an incline. Or you can use it a smidgen at the very tail end of a stop. Said the front break is made to handle all the slowing down, otherwise one runs the risk of having the rear break lock and the bike sliding away like it did with me. Also said using only the front break gets the body and brain’s memory habituated - when you have to suddenly put on the break big time because of some trouble on the road, you won’t habitually, suddenly, and quickly, grab the rear break too, which is a leading cause of scooter accidents. So you’re training your body to respond properly without thinking.

His advice on a number of other subtopics as relates to the bike’s health, wellbeing, and longevity I found interesting, partly as it went against notions I’ve picked up on this site and elsewhere online. F’rinstance, he was adamant the oil should be changed every 1000 miles, the filter every 2000. Said the only octane of gas one should use is 91 (I know, I know, there’s endless debate about this) and then only Shell, (and/or maybe 76, Exxon, but nothing else). Also highly advised cleaning the carbs twice a year, recommended nothing over 30 psi on the tires (and didn’t think the psi need be different in front vs rear), and, lastly, said a person should never, ever ride the scoot in the rain, or even thereafter for 1-2 days. Maybe especially ‘cuz here in LA there ain’t much rain, so helluva lotta gunk piles up on the streets causing one to go slip slidin’ away.

Anyway, that’s what all he said and if you disagree take it up with him not me. I just thought it was maybe worth reporting. The good news is that my bike’s fine, and also I’m learning the ropes and ways of it, including honing in on how to break properly and of hazards of the road, thanks to all of you and the mechanic. Thanks again.


Last edited by phenomenalworld on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My #1 suggestion is to take an MSF course.
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Dooglas
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
Anyway, that’s what all he said and if you disagree take it up with him not me. I just thought it was maybe worth reporting. The good news is that my bike’s fine, and also I’m learning the ropes and ways of it, including honing in on how to brake (sic) properly and of hazards of the road, thanks to all of you and the mechanic. Thanks again.

Well, I don't disagree with what he said. Above I said something very similar. And practice and training are certainly good things.
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scootergrind
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And watch out for the dreaded "tar snakes"! I think someone already made mention of them (tar used to fill cracks) but they're treacherous as hell. I've slipped on more than a few on clean, dry pavement. They're virtually unavoidable as they are everywhere. It's grip-slip-grip in the blink of an eye!
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Point37
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'13 Buddy 125 Seafoam

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scootergrind wrote:
And watch out for the dreaded "tar snakes"! I think someone already made mention of them (tar used to fill cracks) but they're treacherous as hell. I've slipped on more than a few on clean, dry pavement. They're virtually unavoidable as they are everywhere. It's grip-slip-grip in the blink of an eye!


+1...crack seal is def slippery...worse when warm or wet...older road striping is slippery as well that doesn't have the sand in it...worse when wet
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JettaKnight
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Series Italia 161

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrsjr wrote:
My #1 suggestion is to take an MSF course.


+1.

Are those 2500 mi. of the scooter also the only 2500 mi you've got on a bike?
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skully93
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currently 09 Buddy Italia, Honda CTX700DCT

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
“If you are concerned that there is a problem with the scooter you should find someone who owns or has experience with Buddies”.
he was adamant the oil should be changed every 1000 miles, the filter every 2000. Said the only octane of gas one should use is 91 (I know, I know, there’s endless debate about this) and then only Shell, (and/or maybe 76, Exxon, but nothing else). Also highly advised cleaning the carbs twice a year, recommended nothing over 30 psi on the tires (and didn’t think the psi need be different in front vs rear), and, lastly, said a person should never, ever ride the scoot in the rain, or even thereafter for 1-2 days. Maybe especially ‘cuz here in LA there ain’t much rain, so helluva lotta gunk piles up on the streets causing one to go slip slidin’ away.


Between my wife, my friend, and myself we've put 35k on just the Buddy's.

The owner's manual is fine. 2k miles for oil changes. Filter every other change. Gear oil every other change. 85 octane is what they're designed to run on. Any higher won't hurt, but you're getting 0 benefit.

those other service intervals might be for scoots of lesser quality, but mine has been on the road for 20k miles and the only issues are pilot error.

The MSF course will save you a lot of grief, pain, $$, and possibly your life.

I try to retake a class every couple of years just to refresh.

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phenomenalworld
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2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somehow I got unsubscribed from my own thread and just found all these new responses.

Dooglas, I’ve duly noted this business you originally mentioned about front vs rear brake usage, thanks. scootergrind and Point37, thanks for the tar snakes warning, i will steer clear these dangerous reptiles. JettaKnight, the 2500 miles, by now 2700, are what I’ve racked up in the last 5 months in addition to the 1300 miles the used scoot came with.

I’m gonna take the MSF course. I actually asked this scooter mechanic if he thought I should take the safety course and he immediately responded with a resounding “no” with conviction. Said I just don’t need it. I didn’t press him further on why that was his gut response. It’s not like he was basing it on any real knowledge of my riding habits or skills. So, his advice on many fronts certainly does run counter to what many of you say, summed up in skully’s post. Everybody has an opinion, that’s for sure.,and it’s good to siphon through them all and try to make heads or tales out of ‘em from there.
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phenomenalworld
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2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somehow I got unsubscribed from my own thread and just found all these new responses.

Dooglas, I’ve duly noted this business you originally mentioned about front vs rear brake usage, thanks. scootergrind and Point37, thanks for the tar snakes warning, i will steer clear these dangerous reptiles. JettaKnight, the 2500 miles, by now 2700, are what I’ve racked up in the last 5 months in addition to the 1300 miles the used scoot came with.

I’m gonna take the MSF course. I actually asked this scooter mechanic if he thought I should take the safety course and he immediately responded with a resounding “no” with conviction. Said I just don’t need it. I didn’t press him further on why that was his gut response. It’s not like he was basing it on any real knowledge of my riding habits or skills. So, his advice on many fronts certainly does run counter to what many of you say, summed up in skully’s post. Everybody has an opinion, that’s for sure.,and it’s good to siphon through them all and try to make heads or tales out of ‘em from there.

....p.s. I just did a search for the MSF course, and tho' I'm in central Los Angeles, the nearest course is 60 miles away! That's pretty damn far to take my scoot. I do see they have a Basic eCourse. Any opinions/thoughts on how helpful the eCourse might be? Or maybe the eCourse is what many of you were referring to??


Last edited by phenomenalworld on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dooglas
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe most of us meant the Basic Course with practical riding sessions - I certainly did. You might see what kind of motorcycles/scooters are provided by that particular Safety School. Perhaps you can arrange a ride and use their bike. As far as on-line or written materials - several of us like the book Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough.
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phenomenalworld
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2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Dooglas. Again, 60 miles away is quite a hike, arranged ride or not. But I'll look into the options. And meanwhile will definitely pick up Proficient Motorcycling. Thanks much for e the recommendation!
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JettaKnight
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Location: Fort Wayne
Series Italia 161

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
I’m gonna take the MSF course. I actually asked this scooter mechanic if he thought I should take the safety course and he immediately responded with a resounding “no” with conviction. Said I just don’t need it.


Run, don't walk, away from that mechanic.

Strike 1: Always use 91 octane fuel.
Strike 2: " a person should never, ever ride the scoot in the rain, or even thereafter for 1-2 days."
Strike 3: You don't need no stinkin' training!
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phenomenalworld
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2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetta, your input is duly noted and appreciated. It's like parallel universes, the mechanic's notions vs yours and many others on here. regards strike 2 (the rain), perhaps the dude is speaking about Los Angeles particularly, where there's massive buildup of oil and gas and dirt due to lack of rains which then any rain makes into a super slick, slippery soup...
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Christophers
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Psycho

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
It's like parallel universes, the mechanic's notions vs yours


Who is this mechanic?
(I have a couple of guesses)

Send me a PM if you don't want to post the name publicly, but I'm sure he doesn't read these forums.

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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread has veered off the rails so I'm locking it.

For the record, I wasn't thrilled about the riding advice the person in question gave, either. That's why I recommended the MSF course. Let's leave it at that, please.
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