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170i 2,000 Mile Oil Change

 
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GregsBuddy
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Joined: 11 Jan 2015
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Location: North SF Bay
Buddy 170i Vespa GTS 250ie Piaggio BV350

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: 170i 2,000 Mile Oil Change Reply with quote

Hello,
So, I decided to go for a longer change interval than the ~1,600 mile suggested distance because I'm using synthetic oil and change the filer at every oil change. The engine used about 150 CC's of oil in this interval.
The oil drained out quite black and does not give me confidence to continue on this longer interval. I'm surprised given that the scoot' has an oil cooler and filter, and carries nearly a litre of oil, synthetic in this case. Something is aging the oil pretty quickly. Heat from the head overtaxing the oil?
Blow by the rings contaminating the oil? Slow oil flow allowing the oil to get too hot in localized areas? Why the short life?

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Stanza
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Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 461
Location: Chicago
Puch Maxi, Honda C70

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is your riding style? Red line full speed all the time? Lots of stop/start?
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GregsBuddy
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Joined: 11 Jan 2015
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Location: North SF Bay
Buddy 170i Vespa GTS 250ie Piaggio BV350

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty easy on it. Rides of 10+ miles at average speeds of 45.
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fried okra
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Joined: 05 Dec 2018
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Location: Charleston
Scarabeo

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An oil cooler when riding short distances in a fairly cool climate might not be worthwhile.

In essence, your oil might not ever be getting hot enough to boil off water vapor and any other liquid contaminants.

Not saying this is so, but just a thought

fried okra
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GregsBuddy
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Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 460
Location: North SF Bay
Buddy 170i Vespa GTS 250ie Piaggio BV350

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree if I didn't ride much or only rode short distances. I ride this scoot' 3-5 times a week with minimum distances of ten miles. Sitting and stewing, as you note, is a bad thing for oil.
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'16 Piaggio BV350 Medium sport scoot'
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kmrcstintn
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Joined: 19 Oct 2011
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leftover '13 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oil turns dark brown/black as it picks up & suspends carbon and other contaminants from normal operating conditions; the thermal damage that occurs to base oils and additives also turn oil dark brown/black; remember that all 4-stroke buddy model engines are air cooled which means larger tolerances inside the engine to accomodate for material expansion of parts as the engine gets hotter and I suspect blowby of combustion chamber contaminants is increased; another phenomenon is full synthetic oil has a higher detergency than conventional and your oil probably cleaned more contaminants...
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GregsBuddy
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Joined: 11 Jan 2015
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Location: North SF Bay
Buddy 170i Vespa GTS 250ie Piaggio BV350

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points!
The 170i has an oil cooler and the oil is providing more cooling to this engine than the smaller displacement derivatives of this engine.

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'06 Vespa 250ie GTS Medium smooth cruiser
'16 Piaggio BV350 Medium sport scoot'
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kmrcstintn
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Joined: 19 Oct 2011
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leftover '13 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah the 170i has the added mechanism of the oil cooler in addition to the forced air cooling thru the cowl surrounding the cylinder & head and the wind created over the oil filter while the scooter is moving...makes me wonder how the 170 in the hooligan achieves effective cooling; not sure if it has an oil cooler hidden somewhere in addition to the forced air cooling mechanism

hell...most air cooled motorcycles only get ambient air cooling which loses effectiveness during stop-n-go traffic, hence riders' legs getting toasty; liquid cooled scoots & motos start up rougher in cooler temps yet have longer anticipated engine life due to extra cooling capabilities; one of the oddballs I know of is Suzuki m90/c90 motorcycles...engine is a 1500+cc v-twin with fuel injection and cooling is done with a large oil cooler & an oil capacity of nearly 5 qts (common sump lubrication system does engine, transmission, clutch, and primary drive connected to the drive shaft) vs dedicated coolant based systems on most other liquid cooled bikes

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Stanza
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Puch Maxi, Honda C70

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Hooligan does have an oil cooler, and it's a proper radiator vs the finned block that the buddy 170 uses. Probably to compensate for it being tucked up into the bodywork.
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GregsBuddy
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Location: North SF Bay
Buddy 170i Vespa GTS 250ie Piaggio BV350

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The finned radiator-style cooler has vastly more surface area I suspect.
Suzuki built sports bikes and roadsters with oil/air cooling as they advertised. Baked the oil as oil is not the best heat transfer medium.
The oil cooler/oil filter aluminum block widget on the 170i is better than no cooler but may have limited heat transfer capability. On a hot day after riding at ~55MPH, the cooler is still not very hot and one can briefly touch it without burn. This, of course, is not a statement of much merit without data...

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'06 Vespa 250ie GTS Medium smooth cruiser
'16 Piaggio BV350 Medium sport scoot'
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