MSF Course

[Sunil]

I just passed the MSF course! Its been said before, but here it is again: Take the course! It will make you a better, safer rider and its a lot of fun. The only down side was I really liked shifting so now I want to get a motorcycle too! If you are in the Los Angeles area I highly recommend the West Side Motorcycle Academy. The instuctors are great and they make it pretty easy.

[EP_scoot]

CONGRATS Sunil !

And remember, shifting is a lot of fun . . . until you are stuck in traffic and your left wrist starts to hurt from shifting/holding the clutch 30 times in 1 mile.

If you don't have to deal with that, then it looks like you will be saving some more money for your next 2-wheel vehicle

[Kurzer]

The course is amazing! Congrats on passing

People always laugh at me when I tell them about the course but I always tell them the one thing I learned was how to ride slow, which is a skill I have used every day since.
The course may seem silly but it's well worth the time. I should be finishing up my instructors courses by this summer so I hope to see more people out there on bikes

[Sunil]

Thanks guys! The slow figure 8 was a great exercise. It really helped me improve my balance and bike handling. My commute takes me through heavy traffic every day which is why I plan on keeping the buddy if I can swing it. Id love a motorcycle for a weekend ride though! Ill have to see if the tax gods bless me with a big return this year

[heavypetting]

I'd like to see the MSF design a class for scooter riders. Most of the scooter riders I know poo-poo the idea since they have to learn on motorcycles and learn to shift, however there is so much important info in the drills that applies to anyone on 2 wheels. I also think it made me a better driver.

It would be great if dealers would get involved and craft a class like it.

[Sunil]

I know the MSF offers a scooter class at some locations, but it doesnt give you a waiver for the dmv test. The place I went gave us the option to use our own motorcycle or scooer as long as its 250cc or under. Im glad I used thier motorcycle. It wasnt not nearly as hard as you would think and they ease you in to shifting in stages.

[jmazza]

Yeah the MSF scooter class didn't seem to make much sense to me. It's been talked about here some. You might find the threads in a search.

It's only about 8 hours and, as stated above, doesn't waive anything at the DMV.

[zemacar]

Hi. I'm new to the list.
I just passed an MSF course last weekend also. In WA, completing it waives all DOL (Dept of Licensing) testing requirements. I waltzed in Mon. morning, took a number & waited with everybody else, but all I needed was that completion card (and $25) to get my MC endorsement.
A big bonus is learning how to ride correctly. I, too, found the slow riding valuable, but more important to me is learning that you always stop the bike upright. That is, stand it up straight before stopping.
They provided me with a Yamaha Vino for the course. That's what I thought I wanted until I did a little research and found out about Genuine. I put a deposit on an orange one, but I'm waiting for a green one to come in (this weekend) before making my choice.
Meanwhile, I'll try to get by with my Honda Elite 80.
Cheers,
Cara

[afriendofcheese]

From what I gather, it'd be a waste oh $$ for a 50cc (well, 70 really) rider no?
Call me ignorant, but an automatic scooter 50/70 just isn't that hard to ride!

[jaded]

From what I gather, it'd be a waste oh $$ for a 50cc (well, 70 really) rider no?
Call me ignorant, but an automatic scooter 50/70 just isn't that hard to ride!

No. Actually, it's recommended that everyone on a two-wheeled motor vehicle take it. And I strongly agree. Even on a 50- or 70-cc scoot, you are still riding on public streets in traffic. You can do major damage to yourself and/or others.

[Corsair]

Congrats

[Sunil]

From what I gather, it'd be a waste oh $$ for a 50cc (well, 70 really) rider no?
Call me ignorant, but an automatic scooter 50/70 just isn't that hard to ride!

Even if you are already good rider I think the class could teach you something. Theres alot of good information about what to do in different situations to avoid being hit by unattentive drivers as well. No matter what you ride you can get hurt or killed out there.

[ericalm]

From what I gather, it'd be a waste oh $$ for a 50cc (well, 70 really) rider no?
Call me ignorant, but an automatic scooter 50/70 just isn't that hard to ride!

Even if you are already good rider I think the class could teach you something. Theres alot of good information about what to do in different situations to avoid being hit by unattentive drivers as well. No matter what you ride you can get hurt or killed out there.

An automatic 50/70 isn't all that easier to ride than a 125/150 and the fundamentals are the same, as are the strategies for dealing with problems that you'd encounter in traffic. A lot of riding is done at speeds attainable by a derestricted 50cc scoot, and a crash at those speeds can cause serious injury or worse. (Says the guy who got injured in a crash at under 35mph!)

[louie]

...(Says the guy who got injured in a crash at under 35mph!)

as are most 2 vehicle crashes that involve a mc.

[illnoise]

From what I gather, it'd be a waste oh $$ for a 50cc (well, 70 really) rider no?
Call me ignorant, but an automatic scooter 50/70 just isn't that hard to ride!

Absolutely not. Riding skills are riding skills, no matter how fast you're riding, and you can still fall over or get hit by a truck going 20mph. The three times I've dropped the bike, I was actually going under 10mph, and all three probably could have been avoided if I'd had proper rider training.

The scooter class is maaaybe a bit of a waste of time just because it's not as comprehensive as the MC class and doesn't get you an MC license. Take the real MSF course, on a motorcycle (they supply). It's just wise to have that license, many states require a MC or special endorsement even for 50s, (even yours might,some dealers are notorious for lying about that, and in some states there's a dispute over whether a 50cc scooter fits in the moped class or not) and even if you don't need it, you might ride out of state someday, or want to rent/borrow/buy a motorcycle or bigger scooter. Plus, having an MC license can lower your insurance rates, and it might buy you some credibility if you get in an accident and there's a dispute over the cause.

TOTALLY worth (if not essential) taking the class and getting an MC endorsement, even if you've been riding for ages, you'll learn a lot and be surprised how little you know.

Bb.

[jfrost2]

One thing I learned in my MSF class is do a head check when switching lanes or being followed until a stop light/stop sign, the person may forget about you since you arent as noticeable and large, so they may continue and rear end you. That lesson really helped me because yesterday a bus was following me and may not have seen me at a stop sign, I quickly accelerated 3-4 feet ahead and avoided being hit. Without the MSF I may already have a wrecked bike.

You can also use your scooter in the MSF is it is inspected and approved, but I think it isnt that smart of a idea, they teach you things like "shift to second gear after the cone and stop real quick after the next set of cones" but you cant really shift gears on a scooter....so I'm not too sure how they'd like "modding" their lessons for the one student with a scooter.

[Bethers]

Personally, it's the people who think they don't need the class for whatever reason that scare me - as they haven't learned what's necessary to be as safe a rider as possible.

I'm glad I took the class on a motorcycle, even though I never intend to have to shift. Since the license I get is a motorcycle license, and my state and insurance are for a motorcycle (even though I have a scooter) - I think they'd have to have a separate license if we were going to start having a scooter only class. And, yep, I got a discount on my insurance for having taken the class.

I still practice lots of the maneuvers (including that figure when I'm riding. I figure I want to stay on top of my game.

And, congrats on passing. It's a great feeling!

[Valgal20]

Well, My grandmother gave me some money for graduation, and I probably should have spent it on the course, but I decided to get a new Helmet, Jacket, and Green Light sensor. I know, I know, I should have used that money for the course. But I want to take the course on My scooter, and they wont let me, and its like $300, even if I bring all my own gear! Im a poor college student, what do they expect of me? So Iv been practicing on my own, and I know that a classroom would teach me more, but I think Im doing quite well on my own.

[EP_scoot]

Val,
until you can gather enough $$ for the MSF, it would be good to pick up a copy of Proficient Motorcycling from your library. It will teach/make you aware of many of the concepts you would want to be familiar with.

No sections on carrying an ewe on a Buddy, though.

[Valgal20]

Excellent, I shall. Thanks

[jfrost2]

I didnt buy a protective jacket, I thought "it's a scooter, not a harley going 70 down the highway"

I was told when you get hit, you get hit and usually break something in a bad accident, otherwise a slide, a strong normal jacket and in layers will be fine, I wear 2-3 sweat hoodies plus a wind breaker as my riding gear. Plus I bought first gear brand kevlar gloves, I want my hands to work in any accident, big or small.

But I guess money spent on expensive gear could save you from expensive medical bills Better to ride safe then to lay in bed for 3 months not riding.

[ericalm]

I didnt buy a protective jacket, I thought "it's a scooter, not a harley going 70 down the highway"

I was told when you get hit, you get hit and usually break something in a bad accident, otherwise a slide, a strong normal jacket and in layers will be fine, I wear 2-3 sweat hoodies plus a wind breaker as my riding gear. Plus I bought first gear brand kevlar gloves, I want my hands to work in any accident, big or small.

But I guess money spent on expensive gear could save you from expensive medical bills Better to ride safe then to lay in bed for 3 months not riding.

I don't want to be the gear or MSF hardass—what you wear and whether you take the course is up to you. Here at MB really don't judge people for what they decide to do. I confess to wearing a riding jacket almost all of the time... but not 100%... and I'm not ATGATT ("all the gear, all the time") but getting better.

BUT don't fool yourself into thinking that a windbreaker and a few layers of hoodies or whatever will offer you the same protection as "proper" gear made from kevlar, Cortech, Denier nylon or even leather—all of which offer superior protection from friction. If you've been walking or running and have fallen and skinned a knee, yeah that hurts a hell of a lot, even though you were only going a few miles per hour at most.

In a slide on pavement or asphalt, the friction can easily tear through several layers or cotton/blend outerwear. You can get friction burns—road rash—right through your clothes, even if the clothing is left intact.

As far as the expense goes, you can easily find a good-quality jacket for under $100, sometimes less. Check out newenough.com, motorcyclesuperstore.com, motorcyclecloseouts.com, and other sites.

[EP_scoot]

jfrost2,
I am with Eric on this one. What people wear or don''t wear is up to them. They crash, they live with the consequences. And it is never fun to be the gear/helmet/boot/etc police.

A while back I saw a video here I believe that really made you think about your riding wear. It was a guy on the bed of a pick up truck. The truck is riding at 5mph, then 10mph and so on until it reached about 35mph. I want to remember the guy on the truck bed jumps out unto the road at all those speeds. He starts wearing jeans and a t-shirt and as the speed goes up he ask something like, would you do this with just jeans and a t-shirt? Obviously by the end he is all geared up.

Anyway, something like that. Layering is good for body temperature control, not so much for friction.

[Pita1963]

I have signed up for my msf class here in CO. Going to take it from ABATE of CO, they teach the course on either motorcycles or scooters ( they even have the scooters there if you don't have your own ). I'll let you all know how it goes....

[brimstone]

When I took the Abate course a couple years ago, it was great. Certainly made me more confident on my 1200cc Honda Goldwing, which was my first bike too. They didn't offer the scooter course, not too many of those here, our summers are usually about 4 months long if we're lucky, and fairly rainy too, anyway, it's worth the money.

[louie]

just a thought to those thinking about taking the msc on an automatic scooter.
the course is set up to teach you to ride a mc and the lessons seem quite uniform from what i experienced compared to what the rest of you experienced. if you can and do take it on an automatic scooter you will miss out on a lot of the lessons given especially the beginning parts but also a lot of the fine tuning that goes along during the 2 days of riding.
i think i would have either felt left out during those bits of instruction, gotten bored waiting or worse may have fallen out of the groove/momentum of the instruction given.
for those new to riding like i was and still am those 3 days are filled learning about a new world and maybe doing it the way it's been proved effective makes it a more complete learning curve.
then again i'm a teacher who writes most of my own curriculum, it's early and i'm on my first cup of coffee...

[jfrost2]

I have a copy of the state test that you'd take if you go to the BMV for your motorcycle test on a scooter, it seems super easy, 10x easier then the stuff they make you do at the MSF.

If you are thinking of taking the MSF with a scooter, go try taking the state test first, it can be done in a matter of minutes because the runs are so small and short. Plus if you fail, you know what to expect the second time and dont have to sit in another 3 day class, just go and take it.

[Pita1963]

Was told the test here in CO was really easy, right turn, left turn and weave through cones is about it. Still think that the class would be helpful tho-. Besides, if I take the course, I get a reabate from my scooter dealer !!

Robb

[un_designer]

Another thumbs up for the MSF course. In fact, I think they should make that a mandatory requirement before owning a scooter. Even though the course is for motorcycle riders, 99.9% of what you'll learn there is still applicable to a scooterist. For a couple hundred bucks and a couple of days that might save your life down the road, it's absolutely worth it.

[ericalm]

I have a copy of the state test that you'd take if you go to the BMV for your motorcycle test on a scooter, it seems super easy, 10x easier then the stuff they make you do at the MSF.

If you are thinking of taking the MSF with a scooter, go try taking the state test first, it can be done in a matter of minutes because the runs are so small and short. Plus if you fail, you know what to expect the second time and dont have to sit in another 3 day class, just go and take it.

Not in California! I thought the DMV test was too easy when I took it. They changed it, but made it near impossible and rather stupid. I'd have a hard time passing the test now on a scoot or any bike. Of course, degree of difficulty varies a lot depending on who administers the test, too.

[EP_scoot]

MSF vs. DMV test I think are too very different things.
The DMV all it does is provide you with the MC endorsement after you spend about 5 minutes doing a few exercises.
Passing the MSF also provides that same endorsement. But the MSF, specially for new riders, gives you an insight as to what you need to focus when you ride and the dinamics that make a bike go, stop and lean.

I think someone looking to take the MSF is doing it mainly for the instruction. That you get the endorsement is a bonus.

[un_designer]

Yep. I agree. The purpose of the MSF course isn't just so that you can pass the test. There are many things that are taught in that class, that are valuable, that aren't on the test. When I first got my scooter I dreaded having to take the class, but as soon as we were out there practicing it I realized right away that it was money well spent and an experience worth paying attention to.

Give the MSF class a chance. It's worth it.

[MonsterGirl]

A lot of these posts are state-specific regarding the MSF class, so just be aware that it can vary for your state.

In Washington, there are subsidized classes available that take the cost down to $125. At least the endorsement fee we pay goes somewhere that's good for our two-wheeled community! Check your areas and see if subsidized classes might be available there too.

Also, in Washington, if you take the class on a scooter it is still valid for getting your endorsement if you pass the test at the end of the class. You take the same class as everyone else.