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What's your Buddy 125 top speed? (no BSing)

 
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PNWbuddy
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Buddy125

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:09 pm    Post subject: What's your Buddy 125 top speed? (no BSing) Reply with quote

I didn't ride my recently acquired 125 before tearing it apart since it wasn't running when I bought it. When I got it running I didn't want to put it back together just for a test run then have to take it apart for the other stuff I wanted to do like the Prima big bore.

Besides the big bore and a little richer jetting I installed a new belt, 12g rollers, 110/80 front tire and 130/70 rear. I have only about 100 miles on the big bore so it isn't likely broken in enough for final evaluation but the fastest I have gotten on flat road has been around 57 or 58 indicated/bmph and not much faster on longish down hill runs. Some steep uphill have limited it to 40-45mph indicatedIt seems that it just can't supply more RPM to go faster. I have ordered some DR Pulley 13g sliders which shouldn't be too much for the 161 since the 150 and 170i both use 13g rollers.

So what are your top speeds on the flats. If you are so kind to post also include if your speed is GPS/actual or indicated/bmph. Also the wt of your rollers and if you are using sliders if not running stock.
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buzzvert
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my test route yesterday I was on a bit of a downhill. So here's the flatland result of the $100 Buddy currently, all stock. 9000+ miles on the OD.

Last edited by buzzvert on Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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buzzvert
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my wife's 2017 Buddy with 436 miles on it. Upgraded polini variator/rollers and top case.
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PNWbuddy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! It looks like the big bore took about 6 (actual, not "buddy") mph off of the top end compared to yours. I'm tempted to get some new gaskets and put the stock cylinder/piston back in but I'm probably too lazy to actually do that, for now. Mine has 11,000 and some miles on it which shouldn't really be a factor. I'll have to see what the DR Pulley 13g sliders do, if anything. I have a windscreen too but not on the scooter because I really don't prefer riding with a windscreen.
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buzzvert
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PNWbuddy wrote:
Thanks! It looks like the big bore took about 6 (actual, not "buddy") mph off of the top end compared to yours. I'm tempted to get some new gaskets and put the stock cylinder/piston back in but I'm probably too lazy to actually do that, for now. Mine has 11,000 and some miles on it which shouldn't really be a factor. I'll have to see what the DR Pulley 13g sliders do, if anything. I have a windscreen too but not on the scooter because I really don't prefer riding with a windscreen.


Things I would check:

1) Timing. valve adjustments and kit installation can, if done improperly or even properly with a minor slip/oversight, can throw your firing off just a tiny bit and that is all it takes to make things unhappy.

2) Air leaks. poor man's way to do this is with some conservative use of starting fluid around your intake manifold while it's running. if you get idle speed increases, you've got an intake leak. THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS however. You have been warned. Don't smoke. It's bad for you. Especially when doing something like this.

3) Fuel mixture. big bores need big air and big fuel. Well not that big, but big enough. DISCLAIMER: I have never put a cylinder kit into a Buddy, but everything else it seems. Plenty of folks more familiar with that than me, here.

Best of luck.
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wheelbender6
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Buddy 125 does 60mph indicated, so that is close to 55mph actual.
-Just some bolt-ons added: Exhaust, jetting, cdi and coil. I did not try the method of rolling off the throttle near top speed and rolling it back on full.

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PNWbuddy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I did rejet and it isn't running lean, I rechecked the valve clearance as well as made doubly sure that the cam/cam chain was properly aligned. No intake or exhaust leaks. My take is that mid 50s actual/gps is the real top speed on flat roads and no wind for the 125 and although the big bore adds some power it doesn't do much for the top end as that is limited by gearing and rpm. My big bore is still breaking in so maybe performance will improve a little with break in and with changing to 13g sliders (same weight as 150/170i rollers). Since the 125, 150 and 170i share the same intake including air filter and the exhaust is the same at least on the 150, and maybe on the 170 I cant see that there is need for intake or exhaust modifications for a 161.

I've only owned and ridden two scooters, ever, this Buddy and a SYM HD200. The SYM had clearly superior engine performance but the small wheels and riding the Buddy seems more "scooter" than motorcycle like and more fun to me.
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wheelbender6
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the stock CDI has a rev limiter, limiting top speed.
-an aftermarket CDI may allow more RPM and allow you to use the benefits of the big bore.

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cummingsjc
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On flat terrain my Buddy can get a speedometer reading of 70 MPH. With a slight downhill slope prior to the flat stretch I've had an indicated 72 or 73 BMH. That places my scoot somewhere around the low to mid 60 MPH range actual speed. It is a stock 2013. My wife's stock 2009 seems a little bit slower than that however.
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PNWbuddy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is interesting. There shouldn't be much if any difference in performance between two Buddy 125s as long as tires/tire pressure and wind resistance/load is the same - as in same rider on two different Buddy 125 scooters. Mine really feels like the power might be there to go a little faster but not the rpms. So maybe there is variation in the CDI from one to the other? I might order a cheap unrestricted CDI to see if that makes any difference, just to see.
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babblefish
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for reference, my 14K mile Buddy 150 with stock engine on a good day will do about 65 mph (GPS) on level ground. It's reving it's guts out doing that though so I don't sustain it for long. Besides, going that fast on tiny tires is kinda nerve racking, even with my tricked out suspension.
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buzzvert
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not sustain 50+ mph on anything scooter-based. You amplify every piece of road debris and even your distraction by an order of magnitude.
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GregsBuddy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the final ratio the same on 125's and 150's?
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Ferniesp
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject: Speed Reply with quote

You guys are hoping for speed that is marginal for this size scooter. Prior to me buying a 2019 Buddy Kick, I test rode a 170i for a week. Conclusion and findings.

The 125 Kick is just as fast off the line then the 170i for about 100 yards or more. 170i top speed is maybe 5 MPH faster overall on the flats and a tiny bit on the hills. Keep in mind that the 170i heavier so it makes a difference.

Both scooters are at least 4 to 5 MPH slower when it comes to top speed. If they show 65 MPH, it’s 60. Shot, who wants to go faster then that on 10 inch wheels?

I’ll add this just to help others make a decision. The Kick I bought is a better overall value then either 125 or 170i Buddy. More spacious with better use of flat foot rest. Better gas mileage and more powerful then the stock 125.
The Kick is fast enough, faster then the 125 stock and just a notch below the 170i.

Here is where I was sold on the Kick: ride quality! It’s just a better ride with the dual shocks, especially at high speeds. 170i is a bit wobbly at high speeds.

It is what it is on these scooters. Want more power, get a regular motorcycle. All scooters are meant for commuting, gas mileage and conscience.
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PNWbuddy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregsBuddy wrote:
Is the final ratio the same on 125's and 150's?


I think that I have read that the 170i has taller final drive gearing, not sure if I read the same about the 150. Curious if anyone knows but I'm not planning on changing the final drive gears on my 125/161
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PNWbuddy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Speed Reply with quote

Ferniesp wrote:
You guys are hoping for speed that is marginal for this size scooter. Prior to me buying a 2019 Buddy Kick, I test rode a 170i for a week. Conclusion and findings.

The 125 Kick is just as fast off the line then the 170i for about 100 yards or more. 170i top speed is maybe 5 MPH faster overall on the flats and a tiny bit on the hills. Keep in mind that the 170i heavier so it makes a difference.

Both scooters are at least 4 to 5 MPH slower when it comes to top speed. If they show 65 MPH, it’s 60. Shot, who wants to go faster then that on 10 inch wheels?

I’ll add this just to help others make a decision. The Kick I bought is a better overall value then either 125 or 170i Buddy. More spacious with better use of flat foot rest. Better gas mileage and more powerful then the stock 125.
The Kick is fast enough, faster then the 125 stock and just a notch below the 170i.

Here is where I was sold on the Kick: ride quality! It’s just a better ride with the dual shocks, especially at high speeds. 170i is a bit wobbly at high speeds.

It is what it is on these scooters. Want more power, get a regular motorcycle. All scooters are meant for commuting, gas mileage and conscience.


I see what you are saying from a practical point of view but I didn't buy the scooter with any practical intent. Just a cheap fun project to play around with. I would like to get the best performance from what I have without spending too much money on a hobby. I have been tossing around the idea of riding it to the midwest late this summer and/or riding it on the 2020 scooter cannonball although I don't doubt that I won't end up doing either of those rides. I have taken a ridiculously small 200cc motorcycle by ferry to Alaska and ridden 2600 miles back home, bought my former HD200 scooter from a place in Montana - took a train there then rode it ~700 miles home, took the same scooter on maybe 1500 mile ride to Glacier National Park then back home. All for fun, sometimes it is plain fun to take a trip on something that is impractical or ill suited. I had a larger 750cc motorcycle that I sold because it wasn't really much fun for me to ride. To each their own, I wouldn't advocate that anyone else should do or enjoy what I want to do.
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350kmi
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2012 Buddy 170i, 33,000 miles - mechanically all stock - aerodynamics: Prima medium windshield on front and milk crate on a rear rack. Flat ground with no wind 63-64 GPS mph or 68-69 bmhp.

2007 Buddy 125, 18,000 miles - mechanically all stock - aerodynamics: Prima medium windshield on front and milk crate on a rear rack. Flat ground with no wind 62-63 GPS mph or 68-69 bmhp. I have also tested this scoot without the windshield and found it made a notable difference: 57-58 GPS or 62-63 bmph.

On a side note I have found on long downhills/strong tail wind days that the 170i is limited to 75 bmhp (haven't had a chance to GPS this) - it feels like it is an electronic limiter. I have not felt this happen on the 125.

For reference I am 6'1" 190 .lbs. at 600-700 feet above sea level.


Last edited by 350kmi on Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Point37
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buzzvert wrote:
On my test route yesterday I was on a bit of a downhill. So here's the flatland result of the $100 Buddy currently, all stock. 9000+ miles on the OD.


i have to do this next time i hop on for a ride...i'll have to pick up one of those apps...what is the name of this one?...is it an apple app?...annoying ads?

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PNWbuddy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. It should be helpful for others also looking for accurate/realistic and defined speed/performance data.

I just installed a similar or same phone speedometer app on an old iphone that I don't use anymore and no longer has a sim card. It will be easier to mount on the Buddy than the heavier and bulkier Garmin Oregon that I have.
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buzzvert
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a little informal testing today. There's a 1.86 mile "loop" I use for scooter testing that has a bit of everything- speedbumps, roundabouts, S curves, good flat straightaways... and probably a few pissed off old people as I've turned their neighborhood into my own personal 1-cylinder Nürburgring.

In any case as I have four scoots in the garage right now, thought I'd give some more thought to this top speed thing.

The last leg of this course is a .45 mile straight with little traffic, and a radar indicated speed sign. The sign was helpful when I was still working on 50cc bikes a lot- now I breeze past it before it can indicate a speed. In any case, this morning's GPS indicated top speed results, by bike, averaged over 3 runs each:

2006 Chinese Dong Guan "Eagle 150" GY6 bike, top case, no screen, at LEAST 12000 miles on the odometer, which broke a long time ago. Recently brought back from the dead with new brakes, carburetor, stator, voltage regulator, CDI, battery, throttle cable, and 1.4 million cable ties: 52 mph

2007 "$100" Buddy 125, 9200 miles, recently serviced, stock drivetrain: 57 mph

2017 Buddy 125, 450 miles, bought new, low-profile seat, rear rack, just serviced and break-in oil replaced: 57 mph

2008 Vespa GTS 250ie, 2600 miles, flyscreen, top case removed: 68 mph

Conclusions:

I have this Gy6 Chinese bike in for a friend, and I am pretty impressed with the drivetrain and engine. The exhaust is garbage. The air intake (under seat) is prone to drying out and cracking and eating itself. The frame is fine. The plastics are pure and utter garbage. We're talking Power-Wheels level soft toy plastic that deforms to a hard-cheese-like consistency after a few thousand miles. The CVK carburetor that came stock isn't as good as the $20 aftermarket I got from China. The gas tank sensor leaks when near full, and to get the gas tank out requires a full rear-end disassembly. The electrics are mostly buddy-like. The biggest killer on these bikes is that they're BIG and the power to weight is terrible. They're pretty fast off a stoplight, but 50mph is expected. If this one was mine, I'd tear all the plastics off and make it into a mean, ugly rolling frame.

The message for Buddy owners from this test is- you should expect the same performance out of your higher mileage bikes than you do when they're new, as the 57 mph test here indicates. Routine maintenance, tires, check your suspension etc. and these should last for a long, long time. My wife's 2017 has better off-the-line acceleration, due mainly to the Polini variator and Dr. Pulley sliders- the only upgrade hers has that mine does not. Top speed is identical, Her bike is nice and cushy with the newer suspension, but I could remedy that on my beater with a fork oil service and new rear absorber. If you're wrench-handy, don't pass up a "dead" or "old" Buddy unless it's been physically wrecked and/or bent.

The GTS 250 Vespa is more motorcycle-like than scooter-like, in my opinion. I can top 70 on it with a little longer run, and it's relatively terrifying doing that on 12"s. Your brain starts messing with you- "what if that groove up there is a little wider? Why won't that guy to the right stop rolling at the 2 way stop? Is he going? AM I GONNA DIE!?". My Vespa gets long-run duty but honestly if I have to get out into 55-75mph 4-lane traffic, I'm taking a car. I don't trust anyone. In town, 68 mph is a good way to get a fat ticket, too... plus even though the Vespa is whisper-quiet, the finger-wagging is pretty annoying.

Summary? Buddy. 58 mph gives you the best of a bunch of worlds- enough speed where you want to ride a scooter, reliability, small form factor allowing you to park anywhere because it's "cute", and GREAT power to weight.
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fried okra
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a pretty good summary.....thanks!

fried okra
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PNWbuddy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I wondered if there is something wrong with mine but there probably isn't. I found one youtube where wide open with a 5'7 165# rider the speedometer barely touched 60 (speedometer visible in the video) which would be ~54mph. Another where the speedometer hit 65 per the rider's commentary, which would be ~58mph.
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buzzvert
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PNWbuddy wrote:
Thanks, I wondered if there is something wrong with mine but there probably isn't. I found one youtube where wide open with a 5'7 165# rider the speedometer barely touched 60 (speedometer visible in the video) which would be ~54mph. Another where the speedometer hit 65 per the rider's commentary, which would be ~58mph.


Yeah I'm clocking in at 205 lb. and I'm also at 5000 feet of altitude. Just a degree or two of grade on a "flat" road can make a huge difference too... as well as a slight breeze. All in all, 50-60 is about right.
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skully93
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hit 92mph coming down the side of a mountain once.

Don't do that.....


I'm about to hit 20k and everything on my buddy 150 needs some love, but it will hit 58 on a good day no problem, so long as it's flat.

I'm 185lb and we're at 5500ft

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buzzvert wrote:
Here's my wife's 2017 Buddy with 436 miles on it. Upgraded polini variator/rollers and top case.

That's cool! Would you do me a favor? I would greatly appreciate it if you don't mind and can find the time. Either of those bikes, I don't care which, would you do another run exactly like you did before to set a one-way. Take a pic of that. Then right away within 5 minutes, turn around and run the exact same course in reverse. Take a pic of that result. Then both both pics just like you did before. This is something I am intensely curious about and have been for years. We had a member do an actual run at the Bonneville Salt Flats on a Genuine Blackjack scooter, but their carburetion was off we know and their two-way speed number suffered. I feel like you could do us a giant favor and give us a real number at last.

I would be much obliged.

Thank you in advance!
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buzzvert
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll do that right after dinner and the heat ebbs a bit (97 here right now). Stay tuned!
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buzzvert
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't get pics, but I hit 57 on my eastbound run (average of 3, 56, 57, 5Cool, and 55.3 on my westbound (55, 55, 56). This tells me I may have a bit of a grade on my "flat" stretch, or there's a slight breeze out of the west, which is not uncommon around here.

For what it's worth, I did the same thing with a $35 aftermarket carb that's +2 mm from stock in the bike as well, with the airbox off. I lost about 2 mph but that is likely due to just everything being out of whack with air/fuel/jets.

I need to replace the O-ring on my intake though- I'm 90% certain I'm not sucking air (ye olde starting fluid test) but I'll fix that tomorrow and re-run with pics.
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