Tires and tubes and pressures, oh my!

eggsalad · Post by **eggsalad** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:37 pm

Buddy 150, and the documentation is confusing. Some sources say the proper tires are 3.50x10. Some sources say the proper tires are 100/90-10.

Yes, that's effectively the same size, yet I have one of each.

The 3.50 is on the rear. I have a receipt showing it was installed a mere 300 miles ago. That's nice!

I have another receipt for the installation of a tube, but it doesn't say which wheel.

The front wheel has a 100/90 on it. The date code on it is 4907 which seems to indicate it is the original tire, the bike being an '08. I'm considering replacing it - should I get a 3.50 to match the rear, or should I stick with a 100/90 - and why?

And while we're on tires... if I translate what the book says tire pressures ought to be in kg/cm^2 into PSI (units I understand and have gauges for) it seems to come out as 21psi front & 25psi rear. That strikes me as awfully low. What are your experiences with tire pressures on a 150?

Thank you.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:53 pm

I would get a 3.50-10 to match the back tire. You can do either and probably wouldn't notice a difference, I have run different sizes on the front and rear with no problems.

You should be able to see if one of the tires has a tube in it by looking at the valve. Otherwise take some pictures and post them and we should be able to tell. If one of the tires is running a tube I would go back to tubeless.

As for tire pressure these scooters handle well with a large range of PSIs. I personally like to run 25-29 psi in the front and 27-33 psi in the rear(usually 27 front 29 rear.) I always run 2-3 more psi in the rear tire since it has to carry most of the weight.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:51 pm

There is no reason at all to put a tube inside a tubeless rim. Something isn't right

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:46 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:There is no reason at all to put a tube inside a tubeless rim. Something isn't right

If you started out with whitewalls, those had tubes on a tubeless rim.

But those tires suck.

tenders · Post by **tenders** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:33 pm

I find it a little hard to believe that a shop would replace or install a tube in a 2007 tire any time recently. So I would guess the tube is on the back rim. Why, is anybody's guess. How does the rim look? Could it have been leaking?

My '09 Buddy 50 came originally equipped with tubed, whitewall tires although the rims are perfectly good for tubeless tires. I replaced the original tubed tires with tubeless whitewalls right after I acquired it in Jan '19. Still not clear as to why PGO/Genuine put tubed tires on those rims.

You're right - the tires (Primas, but they might be rebranded Shinkos, which were OEM) are pretty lousy. They're OK on a 50cc but I wouldn't put them on anything faster no matter how retro cool they look.

eggsalad · Post by **eggsalad** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:54 am

Interesting information from JettaKinght and tenders, and I thank you.

Since the receipt for the tube predates the new rear tire, I think I will assume that the tube was installed at the rear to stave off the impending death of the rear tire and when the tire was replaced, the tube was removed.

Aesthetics are not of particular importance to me. I don't care whether a tire has a black sidewall, a white sidewall, or a pink-and-yellow sidewall. I just want a good tire at a fair price.

Since you appear to be telling me I can get a better tire at a better price if it has a black sidewall, that's precisely what I'll do - once the feces stops hitting the fan. I'll get a new blackwall tire for the front and be perfectly happy riding around with mismatched sidewalls until the time comes to replace the rear tire.

Thank you all for your advice and input!

BayStateScooterist · Post by **BayStateScooterist** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:51 am

JettaKnight wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:There is no reason at all to put a tube inside a tubeless rim. Something isn't right
If you started out with whitewalls, those had tubes on a tubeless rim.

But those tires suck.

Are you kidding! Why would PGO put tubed whitewall tires on?

dan v. · Post by **dan v.** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:18 pm

It's not that black sidewall tires are better, per say. Unfortunately for the past few years the available whitewall tires have not been quality products - compared to the many blackwall tires on the market.

Many vintage scooters take 3.50-10 tube-type tires. These tires are still being made, both whitewall and black sidewall designs. If you are looking at tires in this size make sure that they say they are of a tubeless style if that is what you want.

Many people will not plug or repair a tubeless cycle tire if it had been pierced due to safety reasons. If you catch a nail on a "good" tire, you can use it if you use a tube.

Buddy's have used different sized tires over the years. 100/90-10 tires are 3.9 inches wide by 17.1 inches tall; 3.50-10 are 3-1/2 inches wide by 16.5 inches tall, so a slight difference.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:36 pm

I think Continental used to make a white wall tire in a Buddy size. They performed really well. When those went away, Shinko or whatever company out of China decided to make them, but with inferior rubber compounds and design. Unfortunately, that's how it goes with a lot of Chinese made products (not all, but a lot). Their overall philosophy is to make it look like the original, doesn't matter if function or quality is the same, make it cheap, make a lot of them, sell a lot of them. Hopefully one day more Chinese companies will morph (some already have) into something better like what happened with Japanese, Taiwanese, and S Korean products.

tenders · Post by **tenders** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:43 pm

Popular though it may be to bust on Chinese companies, Shinko is Japanese and their tires are made in Korea. (They're what became of the former Yokohama motorcycle tire business.)

But their whitewalls are still unremarkable.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:52 pm

tenders wrote:Popular though it may be to bust on Chinese companies, Shinko is Japanese and their tires are made in Korea. (They're what became of the former Yokohama motorcycle tire business.)

But their whitewalls are still unremarkable.

Thanks for the correction. Shinko tires in general are usually so bad that I made a wrong assumption. I guess Yokohama passed on their designs but not their rubber compound formulas. Either that or Shinko decided to ignore that in order to make the tires cheaper.

eggsalad · Post by **eggsalad** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:45 pm

Yes. The recently replaced rear tire is a Korean-make Shinko SR550 in 3.5x10.

The front tire (the one I believe to be original) is a Maxxis 100/90-10, made in Taiwan.

PNWbuddy · Post by **PNWbuddy** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:21 am

I've used Shinko tires on a few dual sport motorcycles, CT90/110s and now on my '07 Buddy (110/80 front and 130/70 rear). I haven't had any complaints and most reviews I have read indicate they are highly rated by others as well. Which tire did you have that provided poor quality or performance or has poor reviews by others?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:43 am

I had a Shinko whitewall on the front wheel of my Buddy and the handling was horrible. Couldn't find traction if I glued it to the ground.
I've also rode motorcycles with Shinko tires and they were like riding with hard rubber tires. The handling was nowhere close to a Dunlap, Michelin, Pirelli, etc. tires.

BayStateScooterist · Post by **BayStateScooterist** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:47 am

BayStateScooterist wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:There is no reason at all to put a tube inside a tubeless rim. Something isn't right
If you started out with whitewalls, those had tubes on a tubeless rim.

But those tires suck.
Are you kidding! Why would PGO put tubed whitewall tires on?

I checked my whitewalls, they are MAXXIS 100/90-10 tubeless tires. Are these good? Thanks.

dan v. · Post by **dan v.** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:19 pm

Well, they are OEM on my '05 Malaguti Yesterday. They are OK. Past time to replace them, as I shouldn't ride on 15 year old tires.

They haven't been available in the US for many years.

Probably will replace them with Kenda K413, which I found to be a decent tire for the 50/125cc scoots. Only blackwall.

fried okra · Post by **fried okra** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:51 pm

The Buddy owners manual says 26 psi front and rear for the 125 Buddy.

Then says 28 psi front and rear for the Buddy 50.

Wonder why they would suggest a higher pressure for the lighter Buddy 50?

tenders · Post by **tenders** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:29 pm

It's weird how inconsistent the inflation guidance is. The VIN plate on my Buddy 50 says 30psi front and 30psi rear. My 50/125/150 manual (p. 20) says 22psi front, 25psi rear (actually 1.5 kg/cm2 front, 1.75 kg/cm2 rear). Apparently Fried Okra's says 28psi front and rear.

I stick with 30psi - this is the guidance "right on the tin."

eggsalad · Post by **eggsalad** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:37 pm

Just for chuckles, I went to Genuine's website and took a look at the current Buddy 125 Owner's Manual.

I can tell you the current manual is a lot better written/translated than the one from 2008, that's for sure!

On page 7 of the manual is a photo of the VIN placard, which notes that the tire inflation pressure is 28psi F/R.

Then on page 20 it says that the proper inflation pressure F/R is 26psi.

So apparently, even Genuine Scooter doesn't even know what the correct pressure is.

And the placard on my '08 150 says 30/30.

eggsalad · Post by **eggsalad** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:48 pm

Or, you know, I could just contact Genuine Scooter via their FB page...

---
ME: Tire pressure questions on my '08 150 international. The owner's manual says 21 front/25 rear, but the placard on the bike says 30/30. which is correct?

GENUINE SCOOTERS: Our owners manual for the same scooter with a 170 calls for 26/26. A few extra pounds up to 30/30 would be good. 30/30 is what our own store technicians use.
---

And that's good enough for me, straight from the horse's mouth.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:26 am

eggsalad wrote:So apparently, even Genuine Scooter doesn't even know what the correct pressure is.

Because there isn't one correct pressure. Depending on how much you weigh, if you ride with a passenger, kind of tires, riding style, which suspension you have, the condition of the roads you ride, and what kind of ride you want will affect what pressure you should run.

If you are looking to get the best ride out of your scooter you will need to do some testing. Get a pressure gauge and start trying different pressures until you figure out what combination works best for you.

eggsalad · Post by **eggsalad** » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:34 am

scootERIK wrote:
eggsalad wrote:So apparently, even Genuine Scooter doesn't even know what the correct pressure is.
Because there isn't one correct pressure.

That's absolutely true and I couldn't begin to argue that you're wrong.

However, it strikes me funny that the factory documentation (for the front tire) varies from 21-30psi. That's a pretty broad range.

BayStateScooterist · Post by **BayStateScooterist** » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:43 am

eggsalad wrote:Just for chuckles, I went to Genuine's website and took a look at the current Buddy 125 Owner's Manual.

I can tell you the current manual is a lot better written/translated than the one from 2008, that's for sure!

On page 7 of the manual is a photo of the VIN placard, which notes that the tire inflation pressure is 28psi F/R.

Then on page 20 it says that the proper inflation pressure F/R is 26psi.

So apparently, even Genuine Scooter doesn't even know what the correct pressure is.

And the placard on my '08 150 says 30/30.

The placard on my 09 150 also says 30/30. Yet the owners manual specs out different pressures. My local Genuine dealer recommends 30/30 for both the 125 and 150. Inconsistencies, inconsistencies, inconsistencies.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:05 am

BayStateScooterist wrote: I checked my whitewalls, they are MAXXIS 100/90-10 tubeless tires. Are these good? Thanks.

I was pleased with my MAXXIS tires. However they were supplied as stock on the scoot and were not available for replacement. I went with the Prima white walls.
That all said, your tires are likely what came on your scoot new, itâ€™s time to replace those â€˜aged outâ€™ tires.