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2021 Rattler 200i Coming?

 
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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:45 am    Post subject: 2021 Rattler 200i Coming? Reply with quote

Because Covid-19 I have time to do things like peruse government databases and I happened to come across something that may interest you Rattler folks. Here is the list of Models covered by one entry in the EPA database for 2021 Genuine scooters:

Blur 200i, Formula T 200i, Rattler 200i, Urbano 200i

Whhatever it is, it uses exactly the same engine as the Blur 200i.

Am I just behind the times again? Did you all already know all about this or is it vaporware (like the Venture 150 that showed up in the EPA datase a few years ago) or what?

I'm interested to hear. Thanks!
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NorCalRattler
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‘09 Rattler 110

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m still kinda new here but.. would definitely consider getting one of these (if true) to have alongside my Rattler 110!
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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorCalRattler wrote:
I’m still kinda new here but.. would definitely consider getting one of these (if true) to have alongside my Rattler 110!

It is an interesting idea, isn't it? That category (ADV scooters) is something Honda is exploring right now, too.

P.S. Belated Welcome to Modern Buddy, NorCalRattler! I'm sorry that I spend most of my Modern Buddy time and energy being the unwelcoming committee for spammers instead of the welcoming committee for legit new members. Anyway, we're glad you're here!
Very Happy
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NorCalRattler
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‘09 Rattler 110

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the formal welcome. Glad to be hear, although my old buck ten platform doesn’t seem to have much discussion - still like reading about what everyone else is up to.

This is my first scooter, I come from a long list of motorcycles (Buell, Harley, Suzuki) but found this 2 stroke 110 for a hell of a deal and jumped on it, perfect for quick beer runs!
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wheelbender6
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am familiar with the Blur 220i, but not the 200i.
-Which one was in the 2021 database?

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wheelbender6
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did find a small amount of info related to the Blur 200i:

"The G-Max design was new from PGO for 2006. Overseas the G-Max is sold in 50, 125, 150, 200 and 220cc varieties."

http://www.motorscooterguide.net/Genuine/Blur/Blur-150-220i.html

https://bikereviews.weebly.com/pgo-g-max-200.html

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Dooglas
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 2021 Rattler 200i Coming? Reply with quote

jrsjr wrote:
Here is the list of Models covered by one entry in the EPA database for 2021 Genuine scooters:

Blur 200i, Formula T 200i, Rattler 200i, Urbano 200i


Wouldn't the return of the Blur also be a big deal? I have heard nothing about that either.
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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wheelbender6 wrote:
I am familiar with the Blur 220i, but not the 200i.
-Which one was in the 2021 database?

I know, right? Makes no sense. But here is the exact database entry for this vehicle straight out of the EPA database:

Model Year - 2021
Category - Highway Motorcycle - Ib (50-169cc)
Certificate No. - MGSCC.1693L7-007
Engine Family - MGSCC.1693L7
Permeation Family - MGSCPMETALSC
Manufacturer Name - Genuine Scooters, LLC
Engine OEM Manufacturer - Ningbo Longjia Motorcycle Co., Ltd.
Engine OEM Country - China
Vehicle OEM Manufacturer - Ningbo Longjia Motorcycle Co., Ltd.
Vehicle OEM Country - China
Small Volume Manufacturer Type - NA
Application Type - NEW
Sales Area - 50S+49S
Combustion Cycle - 4
No. of Cylinders - 1
Valve per Cylinder - 2
Fuel Type - GAS
Engine Displacment(s) - 169
Fuel System Type - TBI
Air/Fuel Feedback Sensor? - Y
No of Carburetors
Other Fuel System
Air Aspiration Type - NA
Other Air Aspiration Type
Air Injection Type - NA
Other Air Injection Type
Charge Air Cooler Y/N - N
Electronic Control - ECM
EGR - Y/N - N
Catalytic Converter - Y/N - N
Catalyst Type
Models Certified - Blur 200i, Formula T 200i, Rattler 200i, Urbano 200i
Exhaust Test Procedure - FTP_C
Emission Measurement Unit - G/KM
ABT Engine Family - N
Exhaust FEL - HC
Exhaust FEL - HC+NOx
Exhaust FEL - CO
EDV Type - NEW
EDV Model - Formula T
EDV VIN - L4HATELP9K6000005
EDV Engine Code - LJ1P61QMK
EDV Engine Displacement - cc - 169
EDV Rated Power - 8.5
Power Units - kW
EDV EIM - 210
EDV Rated RPM - 7500
EDV Road Load Force (N) - 117.
EDV Transmission Type - CV
EDV Transmission - No. Speeds - 1
EDV N/V Ratio - 83.0
DF Type - M
DF-HC - 1.000
DF-NOX - 1.162
DF-HC+NOX - 1.000
DF-CO - 1.000
Low Hour GHG CO2 - 59.5
Low Hour GHG CO2 Method - Tested result from the EDV(s) of the Engine Family
Low Hour GHG CH4 - 0.219
Low Hour GHG CH4 Method - Tested result from the EDV(s) of the Engine Family
Low Hour GHG N2O - 4.5
Low Hour GHG N2O Method
Certification Level - CO - 0.3
Certification Level - NOx
Certification Level - HC
Certification Level - HC+NOx
Permeation-Tank CBD Y/N
Permeation-Fuel Line CBD Y/N
Fuel Tank Material
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Syd
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may ask, which dB are you looking into, jrsjr? I look at th2 CARB list regularl, but there has been little activity since March, unsurprisingly.
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scootERIK
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was really excited when I saw this post earlier. Now seeing that these 200i scooters are only going to be 169cc has me less excited. It would be nice to see Genuine sell some scooters with ~15 horsepower(these 169cc will be about 11.4hp.) But it's still nice to see Genuine adding more scooters to their lineup.

I would like to see some pictures of the Formula T and the Urbano.



Wild prediction- Genuine will change the name of the Buddy 170i to Buddy 200i.
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tenders
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't understand the strategy behind misleading consumers about engine sizes. Buddy 50-125-150-170i, I get. But 200i for a 169cc? Why stop at 200 and not name it the 250 or 300? Or if you want 200 in the name, put in a 200cc engine. Either customers will know they're getting a smaller engine than is on the badge before they buy, or they'll discover it after they buy. The brand is diminished either way. And fooling the non-customer doesn't make any money, does it?
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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tenders wrote:
I really don't understand the strategy behind misleading consumers about engine sizes. Buddy 50-125-150-170i, I get. But 200i for a 169cc? Why stop at 200 and not name it the 250 or 300? Or if you want 200 in the name, put in a 200cc engine. Either customers will know they're getting a smaller engine than is on the badge before they buy, or they'll discover it after they buy. The brand is diminished either way. And fooling the non-customer doesn't make any money, does it?

Not to make excuses for this dishonest behavior, but this is such common practice (See Kymco) that I think Genuine had to do it to keep up with the Joneses. I mean, if they called it a 169 and Jane/Joe First-Time Scooter Buyer goes to their local Kymco dealer and sees a "200i" for sale for less money, what are they going to think? What I'm saying is, I don't think this is a game where strict honesty about engine displacement is going to carry the day when most consumers probably couldn't tell you what "displacement" means...

Just sayin'. Don't get mad.
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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syd wrote:
If I may ask, which dB are you looking into, jrsjr? I look at th2 CARB list regularl, but there has been little activity since March, unsurprisingly.

Hey Syd, you're right, the CARB databases have been static. I think they closed up shop for the duration. The database I'm quoting is from the Federal EPA Annual Certification Data for Vehicles, Engines, and Equipment databases. I made the name clickable so you can go straight to it.

P.S. The EPA database had also been static for a long while. I had stopped checking until yesterday when I just happened to check in and noticed they had posted an "April" update.
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wheelbender6
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tenders wrote:
I really don't understand the strategy behind misleading consumers about engine sizes. Buddy 50-125-150-170i, I get. But 200i for a 169cc? Why stop at 200 and not name it the 250 or 300? Or if you want 200 in the name, put in a 200cc engine. Either customers will know they're getting a smaller engine than is on the badge before they buy, or they'll discover it after they buy. The brand is diminished either way. And fooling the non-customer doesn't make any money, does it?


Ironically, there are some Chinese street bikes displacing over 300cc, that are advertised as a 250. It makes them appear produce more hp per cc. Vitacci GTO 250 is one example.
https://new-bucket-txp.s3.amazonaws.com/v/vspfiles/photos/VITACCI-GTO-250CC-2.jpg

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Dooglas
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, these proposed models have little or nothing to do with the existing Rattler or Blur built by PGO. These appear to be 4 trims or finishes of a proposed 200 (169) scooter to be built by a Chinese manufacturer for Genuine. More like the Venture 50 that Genuine has been importing.
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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dooglas wrote:
So, these proposed models have little or nothing to do with the existing Rattler or Blur built by PGO. These appear to be 4 trims or finishes of a proposed 200 (169) scooter to be built by a Chinese manufacturer for Genuine. More like the Venture 50 that Genuine has been importing.

Bear in mind, we are talking about a 2021 model and none of this may ever actually appear in a USA dealership. Witness the "Venture 150" which appeared in the EPA database a few years ago and which never appeared in the USA. Right now these are just line-items in a federal database. For all I know, this could just be part of Genuine's effort to suss out the community response to a prospective scooter. Shocked
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wheelbender6
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bike reviews article said the G-max 200i will cruise at 110 km/hr (65mph), but they did not say if that was indicated or measured by GPS.
- I would be interested in a 200i if it will cruise at 65mph GPS. That would work on many of our 2 lane highways.

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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrsjr wrote:
... Witness the "Venture 150" which appeared in the EPA database a few years ago and which never appeared in the USA.

Earlier I mentioned that scooter that never happened. It was a 2018 model year. Here is the EPA Database record for it:

Model Year - 2018
Category - Highway Motorcycle - Ib (50-169cc)
Certificate No. - JGSCC.1503K3-006
Engine Family - JGSCC.1503K3
Permeation Family - JGSCPMETALSC
Manufacturer Name - Genuine Scooters, LLC
Engine OEM Manufacturer - Ningbo Longjia Motorcycle Co., Ltd.
Engine OEM Country - China
Vehicle OEM Manufacturer - Ningbo Longjia Motorcycle Co., Ltd.
Vehicle OEM Country - China
Small Volume Manufacturer Type - NA
Application Type - NEW
Sales Area - 49S
Combustion Cycle - 4
No. of Cylinders - 1
Valve per Cylinder - 2
Fuel Type - GAS
Engine Displacment(s) - 150
Fuel System Type - CARB

Air/Fuel Feedback Sensor? - N
No of Carburetors - 1
Other Fuel System -
Air Aspiration Type - NA
Other Air Aspiration Type -
Air Injection Type - PAIR
Other Air Injection Type -
Charge Air Cooler Y/N - N
Electronic Control - OTH
EGR - Y/N - N
Catalytic Converter - Y/N - Y
Catalyst Type - TWC, single bed, open loop
Models Certified- Venture 150
Exhaust Test Procedure - FTP_C
Emission Measurement Unit - G/KM
ABT Engine Family - N
Exhaust FEL -
Exhaust FEL -
Exhaust FEL -
EDV Type - NEW
EDV Model - Venture 150
EDV VIN - L4HGCTK38G6000002
EDV Engine Code - LJ1P57QMJ
EDV Engine Displacement cc - 150
EDV Rated Power - 7.1
Power Units - kW
EDV EIM - 190
EDV Rated RPM - 7000
EDV Road Load Force (N)- 113.
EDV Transmission Type - CV
EDV Transmission No. Speeds - 1
EDV N/V Ratio - 82.34
DF Type - M
DF-HC - 1.000
DF-NOX - 1.253
DF-HC+NOX - 1.000
DF-CO - 1.000
Low Hour GHG CO2 - 57.3
Low Hour GHG CO2 Method - Tested result from the EDV(s) of the Engine Family
Low Hour GHG CH4 - 0.022
Low Hour GHG CH4 Method - Tested result from the EDV(s) of the Engine Family
Low Hour GHG N2O -
Low Hour GHG N2O Method - Derived results based on EPA GHG default factor
Certification Level - CO - 2.9
Certification Level - NOx
Certification Level - HC - 0.2
Certification Level - HC+NOx
Permeation-Tank CBD Y/N
Permeation-Fuel Line CBD Y/N
Fuel Tank Material
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RoaringTodd
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the ergos on my Roughhouse 50, and if it came out with the 200i version, itd be hard to say no to.

The Cabo 200i, is a very close comparison. If I ever needed a larger scooter, that one is on the top of my list.

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cummingsjc
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoaringTodd wrote:
I love the ergos on my Roughhouse 50, and if it came out with the 200i version, itd be hard to say no to.

The Cabo 200i, is a very close comparison. If I ever needed a larger scooter, that one is on the top of my list.


I agree. I had an online chat with someone from Genuine in the past a couple of years ago and said that a Roughhouse 125cc would be a great bike and they agreed with me 😀 then told me it would never happen.😢 I've sworn up and down that I'd buy one if they ever brought one out.
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