2011 buddy 50

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jns1981
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2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

hello all! i have a 2011 buddy 50 that i kind of want to mess with a bit. its stock right now and want to help it with hills in the hudson valley.

what are no-brainer upgrades?
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Dooglas
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Post by Dooglas »

You've heard the old saying, "there is no replacement for displacement". That thinking points you toward a big bore kit such as this one.

https://www.scooterworks.com/NCY-Cylind ... P8850.aspx
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Post by eggsalad »

Before modifying your 50, you should be aware that under New York State law, any "limited use motorcycle" that can exceed 30mph is considered a Class A Limited Use Motorcycle, and requires a motorcycle license.

If you modify your Buddy 50 to exceed 30mph and do not have a motorcycle license, you are subject to citation and impounding of your scooter.

If you do have a motorcycle license, why not just buy a 125?
jns1981
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Post by jns1981 »

eggsalad wrote:Before modifying your 50, you should be aware that under New York State law, any "limited use motorcycle" that can exceed 30mph is considered a Class A Limited Use Motorcycle, and requires a motorcycle license.

If you modify your Buddy 50 to exceed 30mph and do not have a motorcycle license, you are subject to citation and impounding of your scooter.

If you do have a motorcycle license, why not just buy a 125?
its already unrestricted-- i have it to drive to/from the train station & boat club... i dont cruise with it, its 5 minute trips sometimes with our 7 year old on the back going up a hill in the hudson valley...
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tenders
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Post by tenders »

Unless you're making an a$$ of yourself, it is highly unlikely that anybody in Westchester is going to care if a 50cc is going 47, which is about as fast as a BBK will get you on a Buddy.

Not impossible - just unlikely.

But I will say it's interesting and highly educational to take an MSI course over a weekend and get an actual M license. I did mine in Long Island although I also live in Westchester, and one of the instructors was a stunt driver. On breaks he took somebody's course-supplied Honda at random and rode it around the range like a demon, throwing sparks on tight turns, etc. It was awesome.

Oh, and do join the Scooterfleet (Westchester-Connecticut sector) on Facebook. You're exactly the demographic. I'll send you a sticker.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/596233447684750
jns1981
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Post by jns1981 »

tenders wrote:Unless you're making an a$$ of yourself, it is highly unlikely that anybody in Westchester is going to care if a 50cc is going 47, which is about as fast as a BBK will get you on a Buddy.

Not impossible - just unlikely.

But I will say it's interesting and highly educational to take an MSI course over a weekend and get an actual M license. I did mine in Long Island although I also live in Westchester, and one of the instructors was a stunt driver. On breaks he took somebody's course-supplied Honda at random and rode it around the range like a demon, throwing sparks on tight turns, etc. It was awesome.

Oh, and do join the Scooterfleet (Westchester-Connecticut sector) on Facebook. You're exactly the demographic. I'll send you a sticker.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/596233447684750

yeah thats a realistic take on this area! :lol:
ive been on dirtbikes on/off since I was 12... this scooter was literally an exercise in avoidance... avoiding buying a train station parking pass (chained to fence) avoid high insurance, avoiding license endorsements, avoid high gas prices, and most importantly, avoiding walking up the steep hill to our house after work... I dont need top end speed, I need to get up our hill with our 7 year old on the back a bit quicker...while avoiding buying a new scoot!

im looking on ebay and they have frighteningly cheap BBK! what is the issue with those options?
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tenders
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Post by tenders »

BBKs are not my expertise at all but a lot of Chinese stuff on eBay is touted as compatible with the Buddy 50 but is not. The carbs, for example. And more of it is terrible quality. Carb jet kits, for example. I would be entirely leery of a cheap Chinese Buddy-“compatible� BBK without a direct personal recommendation for somebody.
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Post by jns1981 »

tenders wrote:BBKs are not my expertise at all but a lot of Chinese stuff on eBay is touted as compatible with the Buddy 50 but is not. The carbs, for example. And more of it is terrible quality. Carb jet kits, for example. I would be entirely leery of a cheap Chinese Buddy-“compatible� BBK without a direct personal recommendation for somebody.
wrd- step 1 is just a BBK... for ~$60 its hard to resist...
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tenders
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Post by tenders »

If your repair time is worth nothing and you don't mind the inconvenience of an inoperative scooter, then go for it!

Personally I don't have patience for cheaply-manufactured parts in internal combustion engines, although it did take me a while to come to that conclusion.

Maybe you should buy a basket-case Chinese scooter on which to inflict your bargain-basement mechanical whims. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with those whims. I just don't see the point of Tao-Tao-ing a perfectly good Buddy with a part that may or may not even fit it.

There is this testimonial from the Scooterworks kit:
http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic12299.html
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Post by PNWbuddy »

You can get a Malossi 70cc BBK from ScooterWest for $136. Unless that is unaffordable I would go for that instead of an unknown Ebay China BBK and risk just wasting the $60.

I put one of the Malossi BBK on a Buddy 125 (kit from ScooterWest) and I thought it was very good quality. With just the BBK the stock carb worked fine and it sounds like from Tenders linked post that the stock carb works for the 50 with a BBK also although that was at higher elevation.

The BBK install on the 125 was a simple straight forward job, it probably is also for a 50.
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tenders
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Post by tenders »

The stock carb and exhaust on the 50 does work with the 70cc BBK kit.

You just upjet the main jet to an 85 and add a shot or so of extra 2T oil to each gallon of fuel in addition to what the oil injector already adds.

The other member of Scooterfleet has this exact setup with his blue Buddy. It's perky and fun, and of course all that 2T oil smells pretty badass. But it isn't as perky or fun as a 150cc.

It definitely still smells more badass.
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Post by jns1981 »

$150 is certainly doable...my take was the cheap Chinese parts would be a bit raw and require chamfering & finishing more than an ncy kit.

I have a question. How can I tell what size pin my 50cc has? Just take it apart and measure? Is there another way?
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tenders
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Post by tenders »

If by “pin� you mean “jet,� the stock main jet on the Buddy 50 carb is #75. You confirm this by removing the jet and scrutinizing the tiny numbers that are embossed on the base. This isn’t difficult, especially once you’ve taken the carb apart a few times, but I wouldn’t recommend pulling the carb just to check the jet size unless you have a reason to suspect it’s been messed with.

The idle jet, which is physically larger than the main jet and irrelevant to kitting, is #40 size, although in some documentation it says #35. My original ‘09 idle jet was #40, and the 2019 replacement carb’s jet was also #40.
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Post by jns1981 »

piston pin- ive seen BBK's for 10mm and 12mm pins
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by buzzvert »

I'm trying to decide a similar path for a Roughhouse 50- the only difference here is that I have the luxury of having a whole extra drivetrain sitting outside the bike. What I really WANT to do is see how cheaply I could go insane- the Buddy/RH 50 is essentially a QMB139 clone. As such, one COULD get a BBK for < $50, a variator for < $50 and a Mikuni clone slide carb for < $30 as well. On the other end of the spectrum is the $90 Malossi variator kit, an NCY BBK for $180 and a better Mikuni OEM carb for $75+.

I've got all winter to think about it thankfully.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

im starting things off by testing different roller weights. $8 per set is a cheap way to start things off.

most id do is a 70CC kit and jetting the carb.

the boat is hibernating for the winter, so i need something to fidget with-but dang did my fingers get cold last night just swapping weights!
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tenders
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by tenders »

Not a ton of discussion that I recall about changing weights on stock Buddies. Let us know what you find.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

I went from the stock 7.5’s to 7’s. Then down to 6g.

I’ve noticed a bit more pep off the line and still manage to get the needle up a bit past 40mph on level ground.
I’m still looking at a BBK.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by sc00ter »

BBK's can be a lot of fun but you'll be pushing reliability to the max. I used to do Zuma bug-eyes and we rode 'em hard and put 'em up wet. We managed to pretty much bullet proof them at 55mph with the throttle at WOT for loooong runs. But here's what will happen. Something will break (usually transmission related) or you will get a soft seize (from weather changes) when trying to get somewhere important. Not saying don't do it, but the Zumas were strictly toys because of the fear of breaking down. On the weekend running around with friends, no big deal. Breaking down going to work, no thanks. I found my sweet spot with 125-150cc scooters and no longer mess with the 2-strokes but I will admit I sometimes miss having one.

If you do go BBK start small. LEARN how everything works and basic theory. Tuning Matters is a excellent resource along with Moped Army. Don't jump into a high revving aluminum race set-up. Start with a quality street cast kit (Malossi is a favorite of mine) and matching pipe (Yasuni R is also a fav). I've also seen good results from properly tuned stage 1 set-ups. Reeds, pipe (Yasuni Z), transmission and optimized carb settings/jetting if needed.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by Stanza »

buzzvert wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:18 pm I'm trying to decide a similar path for a Roughhouse 50- the only difference here is that I have the luxury of having a whole extra drivetrain sitting outside the bike. What I really WANT to do is see how cheaply I could go insane- the Buddy/RH 50 is essentially a QMB139 clone. As such, one COULD get a BBK for < $50, a variator for < $50 and a Mikuni clone slide carb for < $30 as well. On the other end of the spectrum is the $90 Malossi variator kit, an NCY BBK for $180 and a better Mikuni OEM carb for $75+.

I've got all winter to think about it thankfully.
One important point here. The buddy50/roughhouse are NOT NOT NOT qmb clones. Qmb139 is a 4 cycle, buddy/roughhouse are two cycle. They use a minarelli horizontal style 2t engine.
jns1981
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

Within the past month or so, something seems odd with my scooter.. it lacks top-end speed... going up-hill i used to hit 20-25mph and now i slow to 12-15mph... i checked the rollers, even replaced with stock rollers and performance is the same... even on straights i barely hit 30, I could hit 40 on the stock rollers...

Is there anything else that could cause this? hole in muffler/tailpipe etc? its baffling... happened all at once!
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tenders
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by tenders »

If it starts and otherwise runs well, you need to rule out sticking parts in the transmission. Does the variator slide perfectly smoothly on the tube (boss)? Is the clutch moving smoothly, no sticky gunk or broken springs? You can take a Sharpie and draw some lines on the variator to check after some running whether the belt is traveling the full distance in and out of the variator.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by sc00ter »

Tenders beat me to it, transmission is my first though as well. You can check the exhaust by starting the scooter and plugging the end with a wet rag in your hand. It should run for a couple of seconds then stall. If it keeps running then you most likely have a leak. But again, I'm with Tenders.

Did you do the BBK kit? If so, you could have gotten a soft seize. Or the BBK kit wore something out in the transmission.

I'm gonna bet:
Broken V-slide in variator.
Or, damaged pins in the torque driver. My old Zuma pre-bug would hang up sometimes because the pin guides were worn into a oval! Spent its life as a field bike. I could sometimes blip the throttle and get the pins past the hang-up but I eventually just replaced the inner sheave half.

Keep us posted!
jns1981
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

i checked width of the belt today-- its juuuust about or just under 17mm wide... and the belt is loose-- it wobbles when i reved it free standing and i heard a whaaa whaaaa as the belt started to flop for lack of a better word... im going to try the line test tomorrow... i tried looking up a "v slide" but im not finding anything-- im fairly ignorant to scooters! all i ended up doing was change rollers a few years ago...

i thought it was the belt but ill do the line test and see whats up! will update tomorrow.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by scootERIK »

jns1981 wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:58 am i checked width of the belt today-- its juuuust about or just under 17mm wide... and the belt is loose-- it wobbles when i reved it free standing and i heard a whaaa whaaaa as the belt started to flop for lack of a better word... im going to try the line test tomorrow... i tried looking up a "v slide" but im not finding anything-- im fairly ignorant to scooters! all i ended up doing was change rollers a few years ago...

i thought it was the belt but ill do the line test and see whats up! will update tomorrow.
The "v slide" was probably referring to these - https://www.scooterworks.com/NCY-Variat ... ers-QMB139 which are often called variator sliders not to be confused with "sliders" or sliding roller weights.

It would be helpful to know how many miles you have on your scooters since it last had CVT/belt work done. The general recommendation around here is every 8,000 miles you change the belt. I recommend doing the rollers and the variator sliders at the same time since you are already in there. Even if you don't change the belt you should take the variator apart and give it a good cleaning while doing this inspect the rollers for flat spots.

In the current Buddy 50 owner's manual they recommend cleaning and inspecting the variator every 1,875 miles and replacing the belt every 4,000 miles.
jns1981
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

Thank you. They looked ok.
Took the rollers out. A little dirty but ok.

The v guides were there and seemed ok.

Belt made it pretty much all the way up.

I don’t put many miles on it at all. It’s 12 years old and has just over 2k miles. I take it to the train station and back. Uphill it’s all full throttle.

Is it normal for the belt to flex at speed and “flop” for lack of a better word? The play is causing the “whaaaawhaaa” sound I was hearing.

Curious if a 654x18x30 belt will fit the buddy 50? Or does it have to be 651? Does 3mm in length make a significant impact?
Mostly gone save for the small lip.
Mostly gone save for the small lip.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by DeeDee »

The stock Bando belt that comes with the scooter is about the best you can get. Gates PL30508 works well in this scooter. I've combined it with 7 gram sliders and hit 44mph on the GPS for a top speed. Gates gives 660 for the length. All belt makers don't measure their belts the exact same way.
What brand of belt are you looking at that gives you a 654mm length?
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
jns1981
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

This thing I found on Amazon! Was just looking for something close to original specs.

https://a.co/d/dWRSCAn

I don’t know much about CVT belts…I welcome advice!
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by DeeDee »

Did you order it? Stick with Bando, Gates or Mitsuboshi. I've had good results with this one: https://www.amazon.com/Gates-PL30508-Dr ... 137&sr=1-1

Replace your stock rollers with these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09TB ... =UTF8&th=1

Your scooter only has 2,000 miles? Why are you replacing the belt?
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
jns1981
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

I bought it 12 years ago. Last service was 6+ years ago, don’t think they changed the belt.

And I’m trying to eliminate causes for the slow down. I’ll buy the gates.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by DeeDee »

Clean and re-oil the air filter, replace the plug with a properly gapped NGK. I'd change the gear oil while your hands are dirty. I'd pull the exhaust, and make sure it is completely clear. Wouldn't be the first time an unwanted nest was built in one.
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
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tenders
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by tenders »

Belts get glazed and brittle over time, regardless of mileage. Replacing a 12-year-old belt is a good idea.

Your variator appears to be functioning pretty well based on the Sharpie mark erosion.

Confirming the good condition of the air filter is a good idea.

Where in Westchester are you?
jns1981
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

I’ll check the air filter. I called a shop in CT and they have been super helpful.

Noticed the drive face of the variator is odd. Wobbles a bit when the nut is on. Is that normal?

I took off the clutch bell and the pads were worn shiny. I scuffed them up a bit and cleaned the bell…I’ll giving it a few more tries/fixes and then I’ll just accept that it’s a slow scooter now…not really sure it’s worth more effort/time.

Also-near Tarrytown.
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tenders
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by tenders »

There shouldn't be any variator wobble. At least, there isn't with mine.

If the variator is not fully seated on the crankshaft when reassembling, it is possible to mis-align the washer that engages the kickstart mechanism, and then crank the variator nut down, such that the washer mashes on the crankshaft splines and the variator is not properly held in place on the crankshaft. With the variator too far away from the engine side of the transmission, the belt falls closer to the shaft than it should on the powered side of the transmission. The symptom is that the engine runs slow, especially uphill, because it's essentially in higher gear than it should be.

It can then be difficult to get the washer off, and the tips of the splines can be slightly bent so the variator is hard to get off and back on again, and the teeth in the variator that engage the splines might not mesh correctly. Don't ask me how I know this.

My fix for this situation was to take a small diamond file and gently clean up the tips of each crankshaft spline and the kickstart washer teeth so that they again engaged cleanly. I can't remember, maybe I replaced the kickstart washer. But I definitely left a note in my instructions to make damn sure the variator is fully pressed onto the crankshaft and that the washer is fully seated on the teeth of the splines before putting that nut on.

Also: I'm near White Plains. I bet we could figure this out after the holidays.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

Yeah when I noticed that I had an “ahah!” Moment.

Ordered a new drive face and kickstart washer as the drive face had some issues that added to the wobble.

Once the parts arrive I’m hoping I notice an improvement.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

Yep. Absolutely the drive face.

It had no teeth!! Worn smooth! To the point I had no idea it was supposed to have teeth!!! No idea how it happened. It rides completely and absolutely differently from any time I can remember. Engine sounds completely different than any time I can remember.

Fixed!
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by DeeDee »

The fixed outer pulley had no teeth holding it onto the crankshaft? Please post a pic. Your scooter has 2,000 miles? Was some igit in there playing mechanic, and didn't get the parts back on correctly?
Less chit chat, more riding, Buddy 50, 125, 170i, RH50, Yamaha C3
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tenders
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by tenders »

Good fix! And a pretty cheap one too. Same thing happened with my Vespa S 150, marooning me in the Yonkers Home Depot parking lot. It was some type of assembly failure on my part - perhaps I put a washer on the axle in the wrong place. The soft aluminum teeth are designed to fail this way to protect the crankshaft.
Last edited by tenders on Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 buddy 50

Post by jns1981 »

Only thing I can think of is i didn’t tighten the nut correctly? I took photos of the order I removed things. I learned that the hard way with my first boat! Ha.

But yeah-fixed!
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