Big, bigger, and biggest.. (Vespas)

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:11 pm

Anyone looking for a larger scooter, it's been confirmed over on MV that Vespa is coming out with the GT300 in 2009! This of course will bring many more lightly used GTS250's on the market....

And you should be able to get new GT200 leftovers (and also new GT250's soon) from dealers at reduced sale prices. I know I got my new GT200 '07 (the last year it was made) at around 1K less than when it first came out, because many new buyers only wanted the 250's...!

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:59 pm

Great information. I am torn on this one. On one hand, I like the thought of having more power and an extended range. One the other hand, isn't riding a scooter abour getting great MPG and leaving a small carbon footprint?

The bonus is getting rockstar parking everywhere you go.

redcass · Post by **redcass** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:32 pm

Legend wrote:Great information. I am torn on this one. On one hand, I like the thought of having more power and an extended range. One the other hand, isn't riding a scooter abour getting great MPG and leaving a small carbon footprint?

Would a jump from 250 to 300 make that big a difference in mpg and carbon footprint? Just curious....

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:21 pm

redcass wrote:
Legend wrote:Great information. I am torn on this one. On one hand, I like the thought of having more power and an extended range. One the other hand, isn't riding a scooter abour getting great MPG and leaving a small carbon footprint?
Would a jump from 250 to 300 make that big a difference in mpg and carbon footprint? Just curious....

I think it's more than just the 50cc's difference. It's the way people ride. IF you like to really gun it at stop lights and/or ride wide open throttle a lot, then the bigger the engine the more fuel you'll burn doing that..

But if, OTOH, I ride my 200cc conservatively, I might get as good MsPG as someone who is constantly racing a 150...

But generally speaking, the lower the cc's the better the mileage.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:03 am

Drumwoulf wrote: I think it's more than just the 50cc's difference. It's the way people ride. IF you like to really gun it at stop lights and/or ride wide open throttle a lot, then the bigger the engine the more fuel you'll burn doing that..

I agree that how you ride matters. The big frame Vespas, however, are heavier and not as nimble. Probably less likely that they would be pushed to their limit than a 125/150 scoot. After all, 50cc 2s scoots get worse mileage than virtually any other scoot. Partially the 2 cycle engine but also they are driven at or near full throttle most of the time.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:42 am

The GTS 300 is actually the slightly-differently-styled GTS Super, as seen in the thread we had about the LXS. There's a lot of debate going on (on MV) regarding the styling—especially the vents on the side of the cowls.

A lot of those Vespa riders with the means to do so traded up from the GT200 to the GTS250ie and it was a significant jump in a lot of ways. Personally, I never lusted after the GT200, but the GTS is a much more stylish machine and appealed to those who wanted more CCs but also a more classic-looking scoot. The GTS Super 300ie is cool, but different. At the same time, it just doesn't carve asphalt the way a LX—or a Buddy—does. Totally different flavor of scooter.

I don't think there will be the same migration from the 250 to the 300.

FWIW, both the 250 and the 300 are fuel-injected, which I think lowers their emissions.

BGK · Post by **BGK** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:00 am

ericalm wrote:Totally different flavor of scooter.

This is exactly why I think they shouldn't be called scooters at all. I don't like the term maxiscooter but at least it's a line in the sand.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:49 pm

BGK wrote:
ericalm wrote:Totally different flavor of scooter.
This is exactly why I think they shouldn't be called scooters at all. I don't like the term maxiscooter but at least it's a line in the sand.

I wouldn't qualify these as maxis and think they're clearly scooters. The GTS and GTS Super have the classic features that separate scoot from motorcycle: step-through design, engine and gas tank located in the rear under the seat, small wheels. I think there's plenty of room for these, as well as 50cc models and everything in between under the umbrella of "scooter" just as little trail bikes and giant Harleys all qualify as motorcycles.

The model that rides the line between scooter and motorcycle, for me, is the Gilera GP800: 75hp 850cc v-twin engine, 16" (front)/15" (rear) wheels, barely step-through design. Still a scooter, and a rather awesome one at that. The GP800 shares its engine with the lustworthy Aprilia Mana 850 motorcycle.

Sunil · Post by **Sunil** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:44 pm

Ill wait for the 1200

BGK · Post by **BGK** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:44 pm

I understand the people have different ideas of what is scooterish. But mine is that, regardless of wheel size or step through nature, if it's so big that I wouldn't want to push it if it broke down or ran out of gas, then it's not a scooter!

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:50 pm

I think a powerful/large scooter would be cool; but if I had to spend that kind of money, I would be putting the money towards a motorcycle instead.

zigzag · Post by **zigzag** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:34 pm

At what point do you just say "forget the scooter, I'm going for a bike?" The larger the displacement will take you closer to motorcycle power and pricing. And yet, you still won't be that comfortable taking it on the freeway.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:01 pm

Legend wrote:On the other hand, isn't riding a scooter abour getting great MPG and leaving a small carbon footprint?

No. It's really about having more fun than you are allowed to have with your pants on...

--Keys

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:35 am

zigzag wrote:At what point do you just say "forget the scooter, I'm going for a bike?" The larger the displacement will take you closer to motorcycle power and pricing. And yet, you still won't be that comfortable taking it on the freeway.

Well, a lot of people ride their GTSs on the freeways. In fact, some people take 150s or even Buddys on the freeways (the degree to which this is totally insane just depends on where you live and how you ride... I guess...). The GTS 250 is certainly a freeway-capable scoot, and from what I've heard from many riders is quite stable and nimble at high speeds.

People buy scoots in the 400cc and up range (true maxiscooters) for a number of reasons that separate them from motorcycles: auto tansmission, riding position, ease of riding, more storage space. Even something like a Burgman probably rides more like a scooter than a motorcycle. And look at an oddball like the Piaggio MP3 500ie—a design that wouldn't work in a motorcycle configuration.

It's just a matter of taste and preference. For me, if I were going over 500cc, it would probably be for a motorcycle. But I sure wouldn't mind a lower-cc bike like a Honda Dream CA 305 or a higher-cc scooter like a GTS.

GaryEPSP · Post by **GaryEPSP** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:31 am

I think of it this way; city scoot=200cc or less. Intercity scoot=250cc or more.

I've ridden almost all sizes of scoots. There is a point where you start to lose that 'bicycle feel,' and start gaining the 'motorcycle feel." Only you know where that begins and ends. And what feels the best to you.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:38 am

ericalm wrote:The GTS 300 is actually the slightly-differently-styled GTS Super, as seen in the thread we had about the LXS. There's a lot of debate going on (on MV) regarding the styling—especially the vents on the side of the cowls.

A lot of those Vespa riders with the means to do so traded up from the GT200 to the GTS250ie and it was a significant jump in a lot of ways. Personally, I never lusted after the GT200, but the GTS is a much more stylish machine and appealed to those who wanted more CCs but also a more classic-looking scoot. The GTS Super 300ie is cool, but different. At the same time, it just doesn't carve asphalt the way a LX—or a Buddy—does. Totally different flavor of scooter.

I don't think there will be the same migration from the 250 to the 300.

FWIW, both the 250 and the 300 are fuel-injected, which I think lowers their emissions.

Don't understand at all how you can possibly say the GTS 250 is "much more stylish" than the GT 200?

-Their bodies are identical, with only a very slightly different seat shape, and a digital dash on the 250 that most all Vespa owners will tell you is not nearly as nice as the older GT 200's dash!

(And oh yes, there's also an ugly piece of chrome on the 250's front fender that the GT200 had the good taste to leave off!)

And as far as highway riding goes, well, the 250 may have a bit more initial acceleration, but it's top speed is only 2 mph greater than the GT 200's!!

Myself, I think people who rave about the 'better' GT 250 (over the GT 200) are only self-justifying the higher price they paid for it..!

IMO the lighter weight, less complicated (and less expensive) GT 200 IS by far the better scooter!

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:40 am

Drumwoulf wrote:
ericalm wrote:The GTS 300 is actually the slightly-differently-styled GTS Super, as seen in the thread we had about the LXS. There's a lot of debate going on (on MV) regarding the styling—especially the vents on the side of the cowls.

A lot of those Vespa riders with the means to do so traded up from the GT200 to the GTS250ie and it was a significant jump in a lot of ways. Personally, I never lusted after the GT200, but the GTS is a much more stylish machine and appealed to those who wanted more CCs but also a more classic-looking scoot. The GTS Super 300ie is cool, but different. At the same time, it just doesn't carve asphalt the way a LX—or a Buddy—does. Totally different flavor of scooter.

I don't think there will be the same migration from the 250 to the 300.

FWIW, both the 250 and the 300 are fuel-injected, which I think lowers their emissions.
Don't understand at all how you can possibly say the GTS 250 is "much more stylish" than the GT 200? -Their bodies are identical, with only a very slightly different seat shape, and a digital dash on the 250 that most all Vespa owners will tell you is not nearly as nice as the older GT 200's dash! (And oh yes, there's also an ugly piece of chrome on the 250's front fender that the GT200 had the good taste to leave off!)

And as far as highway riding goes, well, the 250 may have a bit more initial acceleration, but it's top speed is only 2 mph greater than the GT 200's!!
Myself, I think people who rave about the 'better' GT 250 (over the GT 200) are only self-justifying the higher price they paid for it..!
IMO the lighter weight, less complicated (and less expensive) GT 200 IS by far the better scooter!

Spoken like a true GT 200 owner. I'm shocked you feel this way.

Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:47 am

ericalm wrote:Spoken like a true GT 200 owner. I'm shocked you feel this way.

I owned both. Don't y'all even get me started.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:50 am

ericalm wrote:
Drumwoulf wrote:
ericalm wrote:The GTS 300 is actually the slightly-differently-styled GTS Super, as seen in the thread we had about the LXS. There's a lot of debate going on (on MV) regarding the styling—especially the vents on the side of the cowls.

A lot of those Vespa riders with the means to do so traded up from the GT200 to the GTS250ie and it was a significant jump in a lot of ways. Personally, I never lusted after the GT200, but the GTS is a much more stylish machine and appealed to those who wanted more CCs but also a more classic-looking scoot. The GTS Super 300ie is cool, but different. At the same time, it just doesn't carve asphalt the way a LX—or a Buddy—does. Totally different flavor of scooter.

I don't think there will be the same migration from the 250 to the 300.

FWIW, both the 250 and the 300 are fuel-injected, which I think lowers their emissions.
Don't understand at all how you can possibly say the GTS 250 is "much more stylish" than the GT 200? -Their bodies are identical, with only a very slightly different seat shape, and a digital dash on the 250 that most all Vespa owners will tell you is not nearly as nice as the older GT 200's dash! (And oh yes, there's also an ugly piece of chrome on the 250's front fender that the GT200 had the good taste to leave off!)

And as far as highway riding goes, well, the 250 may have a bit more initial acceleration, but it's top speed is only 2 mph greater than the GT 200's!!
Myself, I think people who rave about the 'better' GT 250 (over the GT 200) are only self-justifying the higher price they paid for it..!
IMO the lighter weight, less complicated (and less expensive) GT 200 IS by far the better scooter!
Spoken like a true GT 200 owner. I'm shocked you feel this way.

LOL! Touche..!