FINALLY....

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:32 pm

after an excrutiating monthlong wait, i picked up my orange 125 at scooter invasion in tempe... many thanks to seth... in a seeming fateful initiation, it started POURING the second that i pulled onto university out of the invasion parking lot... now i just have to wait for my clothes to dry at my friend's house before i can ride it back to phx.... christmas was never this fun!!!!!

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:48 pm

Sorry you got wet on the way home -- same thing happened to me, but the rain wasn't terribly heavy.

Oh, and CONGRATS!!

MNBuddy · Post by **MNBuddy** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:58 pm

You'll luv it anyway! CONGRATS! Have fun with it...

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:00 pm

It rains in Phoenix?

Despite what local laws allow, wear a helmet! I totally freaked on a recent trip to AZ when I saw lidless bikers. Nuts!

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:12 am

Oh yeah, it rains in Phoenix. Maybe not often, but when it does, it's spectacular. The monsoons will flat wash you away!

As for lids...there is no lid law in Arizona and to honest, I'd say 65% of the the riders don't wear them. They didn't have one in Colorado either when I lived there and most folks didn't wear them. You consider the possibilities and if you are willing to live (or not) with the consequences of a mishap, then the choice to wear one or not is at least there... A little less governmental meddling is always welcome. Now, I wear a helmet, but I don't feel it's somebody else's place to tell me I HAVE to.

Off my soapbox now...

--Keys

dru_ · Post by **dru_** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:01 pm

Congratz!

setbuilder · Post by **setbuilder** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:57 am

Well said Keys! Illinois does not have a helmet law either. I have had my buddy 50 for a little over a month and I do not wear a helmet. I am however considering a full face one for when it gets colder. I respect your decision to wear one and still be able to stand up for the right to choose! Thank you for being a rational voice!!

Live safe, eat right, die anyway!

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:29 am

well it hasn't rained since sat., so i have managed to put 160or so miles on it, passed the skills test, and sold my car... im in this for real, now, i suppose...

pesqueeb · Post by **pesqueeb** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:03 pm

Keys wrote: As for lids...there is no lid law in Arizona and to honest, I'd say 65% of the the riders don't wear them. They didn't have one in Colorado either when I lived there and most folks didn't wear them. You consider the possibilities and if you are willing to live (or not) with the consequences of a mishap, then the choice to wear one or not is at least there... A little less governmental meddling is always welcome. Now, I wear a helmet, but I don't feel it's somebody else's place to tell me I HAVE to.

Off my soapbox now...

--Keys

Amen Brother. BTW, still no helmet law in CO, but there is a seat belt law. I don't know how the state justifies one but not the other.

scarabmonkey · Post by **scarabmonkey** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:12 pm

seatbelts make OTHER people on the road safer, not just you.

dru_ · Post by **dru_** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:17 pm

LOL, in Georgia we have a seatbelt law, a helmet and and get this, a Bicycle helmet law.

I'm not kidding, children 16 and under are required by law to wear an approved bicycle helmet when on a bicycle. Failure to wear a helmet can result in criminal negligence charges being filled against the legal guardian. Once you turn 17, you have the option to make a choice to wear a helmet.

Now I wear my helmet and I make my children wear theirs for safety reasons, but WTF. The government shouldn't be legislating this stuff.

rickyd410 · Post by **rickyd410** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:32 pm

I think if you're going to be on a road with automobiles, you should be made to wear a helmet. The statistics are too great to let it go unregulated.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:38 pm

As an x-ray tech, I have taken care of a lot of people doing a lot of crazy stuff: like not wearing a helmet or not using a seatbelt. A lot of these folks have no insurance or means of paying for their injuries. Maybe this is why the government enforces certain safety laws. Otherwise the state has to suck up the costs. The way I look at it personally is The Darwin Theory of Natural Selection: If you're not smart enough to wear a helmet, you don't need one! As an avid mountail biker, I've seen this Theory put to the test almost every time I ride.

rickyd410 · Post by **rickyd410** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:45 pm

So if someone doesn't have common sense, they might as well be dead?

KidDynomite · Post by **KidDynomite** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:49 pm

The way I look at it personally is The Darwin Theory of Natural Selection: If you're not smart enough to wear a helmet, you don't need one!

I nearly fell out on that one!

setbuilder · Post by **setbuilder** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:55 pm

As far as natural selection goes, I strongly feel that helmets have cause the gene pool to become polluted. Helmets have saved far too many people who were too slow or stupid to avoid danger and that "natural selection" would have otherwise taken care of. I also believe that wearing one, just like driving at the posted speed limit lulls you into a false sense of security.

I heard about a study that showed wearing a helmet on a bicycle make you more likely to be hit by a car. I am curious to see it to see if it supports what I have said.

setbuilder · Post by **setbuilder** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:01 pm

I found it here-http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2425957

Interesting, but doesn't apply to scooters. Unless you assume that people react to us the same way.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:50 pm

That study sounds pretty suspect to me... unless a lot more riders participated in more locations than the article indicated. I think the most the guy could say would be "in my experience".

As for getting hit by a car while on a bicycle, I have a friend who is alive today despite going head-first into a car windshield because he was wearing a good quality bike helmet. In NJ they only require bike helmets on kids, but he always wears one on his bicycle commute to work. He was in a coma for a while, and required lots of surgery and a bunch of new teeth, but he credits the helmet for his survival.

soundofsingles · Post by **soundofsingles** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:24 pm

I've heard all kinds of urban myths about the dangers of wearing a helmet. All I can say is that I've never known anyone who was killed by a helmet, but I've seen two people killed right in front of me because they weren't wearing motorcyle helmets. One was at an anti-helmet law rally. Now, I don't know if I want the government telling me that I need to do something that I would do anyway, but I'm sure that out there are some folks who wouldn't be alive if someone hadn't made them put a helmet on.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:58 am

Axe posted this on another topic forum but I thought I'd also put it here for those still nterested in riding at their own risk with no protective gear.

http://www.vrccdev.com/punisher/bird/

setbuilder · Post by **setbuilder** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:19 am

I am definitely not putting down anyone who choses to wear a helmet. That being said, you do all realize that you can die with a helmet on, right? What disturbs me aside from people trying to force me to do anything is this attitude that surrounds safety rules and procedures of all kinds. No matter what you do, accidents happen. Whether you get hit by a car, struck by lightning, get cancer(which happens even if you don't smoke or even spend all of your life away from smokers!) or get shot, you are going to die!!!

Live your life the way you want, and stay out of mine!

jess · Post by **jess** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:05 am

setbuilder wrote:I heard about a study that showed wearing a helmet on a bicycle make you more likely to be hit by a car. I am curious to see it to see if it supports what I have said.

There are very few occasions that I will step in and take sides in a discussion on this forum. This is one of those times. The "helmets are actually more dangerous" crap has been floating around the bicycle and MC community for years, and usually starts with "I heard about this study where...". It's a lie. There aren't any reputable studies. You got one? I want to see it, and I want to see credentials. Until then, don't propagate this kind of shit on my forum.

You don't want to wear a helmet? Fine. Be my guest. It's your head, you do with it what you want. But I'll be first in line to say "I told you so" when you leave a pile of grey goo on the side of a minivan.

setbuilder · Post by **setbuilder** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:40 am

I posted the study immediately after the post that you are replying to- YESTERDAY! Take from it what you will. My comments are in response to the safety nazis that are more than willing to force their opinion on everyone else in the form of laws that take away our rights but only hear what they want and respond in a dilusional way to half of the point that was trying to be made by a rational and neutral voice. Before anyone responds to this I suggest you actually take the time to see what the hell has been said up to this point!!!

jess · Post by **jess** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:01 am

setbuilder wrote:I posted the study immediately after the post that you are replying to - YESTERDAY!

That's a pretty weak study with some lofty conclusions, considering that it's one rider in one location, and the subject of the study was the person who formulated the study, computed the data, and drew the conclusions. In other words, extremely poor scientific execution, ignoring some very basic tenets of scientific experimentation.

Like I said, you do whatever you want with your head, but if you spread that crap in here I will ban you from the forum. Got it?

setbuilder wrote:My comments are in response to the safety nazis

Apparently you've never heard of Godwin's Law. Unfortunately, you lose regardless.

ka24desc · Post by **ka24desc** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:05 am

So if someone doesn't have common sense, they might as well be dead?

I think the idea is that if society stops coddling the morons, there will be less of them. Take the old lady that burned herself with Mcydees coffee. Now the cup has to say HOT all over it. HELLO! Its coffee, of course its going to be hot!
I'm with DARWIN, natural selection, and less polution.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:14 am

um, thanks for hijacking my excitement over my first scooter, guys...
maybe i should lurk... :[

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:18 am

setbuilder wrote:I heard about a study that showed wearing a helmet on a bicycle make you more likely to be hit by a car. I am curious to see it to see if it supports what I have said.

setbuilder wrote:I found it here-http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2425957

Interesting, but doesn't apply to scooters. Unless you assume that people react to us the same way.

<sorry, long post...>

I don't want to get into a discussion of anyone's libertarian attitudes about helmet laws. That's a moot point in 48 states where such laws exist and are unlikely to ever be repealed. Write an angry letter to your state legislators; it'll be "filed" with the rest.

People are free to make their own decisions, lawful or not. But this forum does influence the behaviors of riders (myself included), so even the suggestion that not wearing a helmet may be "more safe" than wearing one is worrisome and somewhat irresponsible. I think most of those who choose not to wear them do so knowing damn well that it's safer to wear one. It's also probably safer to drive in a car, or walk, or even fly. We all decide how much risk we want to take on, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking there's less when not wearing a helmet.

The study you cite in no way shows that bicyclists are "more likely to be hit by a car." It found, at best, that cars give those without helmets more space. BUT, given that the principal researcher was the one on the bicycle and that, well, he did have a hypothesis to test, the odds of his exerting an influence over the outcome (consciously or otherwise) are pretty high.

He may, in fact, have simply proven that when he's not wearing a helmet, he doesn't ride so close to cars or that he rides with more caution. But this was just one informal study. If he really felt like he was onto something, he would set up a more serious study by, say, placing cameras over streets heavily trafficked by cars and bikes and using video to measure the distances.

And, you're right, it doesn't apply to scooters. Although many drivers seem to treat scooters as something less than motorcycles, they also know that any motorized vehicle operating in traffic at the same speeds isn't the same as a bike. There are also big differences between bike helmets and DOT-approved motorcycle helmets.

pesqueeb · Post by **pesqueeb** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:05 am

As a long time bicycle rider and commuter, I've found that I get WAY more respect from the motorized traffic on the road on my Scoot than on my bike. Or at least people seem to take more notice of me. That said, I don't ride either without a helmet. I don't think drivers on the road could give a flying crap if YOUR wearing a helmet or not. A helmet has probably saved my life on my bike, and it might one day (God forbid) save my life on my Scooter. I find it hard to belive that there is anyone out there who thinks that helmets or seat belts don't save lives. The point of the discussion, was weather or not its the states place to dictate if you should put either on. As Ericalm said, my libertarian leanings suggest, no it should not, even if I personaly never get in/on a car/bike/scooter without my seatbelt/helmet. And I would still love for someone to explain to me how a state like Colorado can have a seatbelt law but no helmet law. I think that if your using the argument that seatbelts save lives, how can you not have a helmet law when helmets save lives? Its the same argument.

Safe Riding!

castleton · Post by **castleton** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:16 am

"um, thanks for hijacking my excitement over my first scooter, guys...
maybe i should lurk... :["

You have a point--and you have every right to your excitement & delight (it's a Christmas kind of feeling, as has been posted elsewhere). I think we all empathize & celebrate with you!

That said, I think Jess was right to jump on this dangerous line of thinking; namely, that wearing a helmet puts you more at risk than not wearing one. That's really twisted tripe. And to cite a "study" that was not conducted by a reputable neutral body, with a sample of only one person, is equally dangerous to folks who may not understand that not everything called "study" is credible or official.

It's kind of like putting out a wildfire of untruths before they turn into a conflagration of disinformation.

Sorry it had to happen on your post, but you can always keep us updated on a new thread! We definitely share your excitement!

rickyd410 · Post by **rickyd410** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:16 pm

setbuilder wrote:I posted the study immediately after the post that you are replying to- YESTERDAY! Take from it what you will. My comments are in response to the safety nazis that are more than willing to force their opinion on everyone else in the form of laws that take away our rights but only hear what they want and respond in a dilusional way to half of the point that was trying to be made by a rational and neutral voice. Before anyone responds to this I suggest you actually take the time to see what the hell has been said up to this point!!!

Safety Nazis???!! You're way out of line.

If you're referring to me, all I said was "I think if you're going to be on a road with automobiles, you should be made to wear a helmet. The statistics are too great to let it go unregulated." Notice I said I "THINK," as in, just my opinion.

Is that so bad? I want the guy to be safe. He's a new scooter owner, riding on roads with automobiles probably going 40-45 miles an hour; he should be wearing a helmet. It's irresponsible and stupid to tell him anything otherwise, especially citing some 'experiment' that says not wearing a helmet is SAFER than actually wearing one. Give me a break.

::edit. Thanks Castleton.

castleton · Post by **castleton** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:01 pm

KidDynomite · Post by **KidDynomite** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:06 pm

The point of the discussion, was weather or not its the states place to dictate if you should put either on.

No, actually if you read the first entry, the point of the discussion IN THIS THREAD was suppossed to be a new Buddy owner talking about their excitement. You all hi-jacked the thread.

Congrats on your new Buddy, buddy. If you wanna read about helmet laws, hopefully these two will start their own thread.

rickyd410 · Post by **rickyd410** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:12 pm

KidDynomite wrote:
The point of the discussion, was weather or not its the states place to dictate if you should put either on.
No, actually if you read the first entry, the point of the discussion IN THIS THREAD was suppossed to be a new Buddy owner talking about their excitement. You all hi-jacked the thread.

Congrats on your new Buddy, buddy. If you wanna read about helmet laws, hopefully these two will start their own thread.

So true.

Lou, congrats. Keep us updated on how everything goes.

I had my temp permit when I bought my buddy. A guy from the scooter shop escorted me home, so I didn't have to have it delivered. Although it rained the first couple days after I got it home, so it just sat there.

I ride it to work every day the weather cooperates. Not today, sadly.

Anyhoo. Congrats.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:47 pm

setbuilder wrote:That being said, you do all realize that you can die with a helmet on, right?

I think a large part of the reason for helmet legislation is not just to prevent deaths, but to prevent injuries. If you crash with no helmet and die, well bummer, but it's mainly your (and your family's) loss. However, if you crash without a helmet and suffer serious brain trauma requiring huge amounts of $$ to take care of, guess what, it is now everyone's problem! Who's footing the bill for the healthcare, which will be much more expensive than if one had a proper helmet on - the gov't, and naturally the taxpayers.

So while I am all for folks being able to not wear a helmet if they feel their head has no value, I am also for mandating that if one is riding helmetless then they should be carrying a HUGE amount of medical insurance just in case they should take a spill.

Okay, I'm done with this thread now, and my apologies to the original poster

castleton · Post by **castleton** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:00 pm

Maybe we should throw Lou a party? Thanks for hanging in there, Lou--and please don't just go into hiding. This kind of "hijacking" is rare; like I said, I think it only happened because it was an important issue.

Enjoy your riding!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:32 pm

lou76 wrote:um, thanks for hijacking my excitement over my first scooter, guys...
maybe i should lurk... :[

Orange!!!!! SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!
How many miles so far?

BR Not-David

jess · Post by **jess** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:01 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:Orange!!!!! SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!
How many miles so far?

That's the spirit.

Little known fact: the orange Buddy is the fastest of all the colors.

ka24desc · Post by **ka24desc** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:33 pm

Have we come up with a name of said SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET orange scoot yet?
Planning any mods?
I think if I had orange, I'd call her the Amber Avenger or some such.
Welcome to the Band! Or is it Brigade? Guess we haven't gotten to that point yet, but thats another thread........Cheers!

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:50 pm

BuddyRaton wrote: Orange!!!!! SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!
How many miles so far?

BR Not-David

about 60 a day, coming up on 300...
and my comment about hijacking was just to try to squelch a little hostility...
people are going to wear helmets or not wear helmets whatever impassioned opinion you may throw on some obscure message board... i bought a scorpion exo700 (matte black) prior to my buddy purchase... i hit a car head on (yes it was moving towards me) on a bicycle almost 15 years ago, without a helmet on, and it was an outright miracle that i survived with minor injuries after doing a complete flip over the car and hitting the pavement... although i dont remember the accident (due to the hefty concussion), i certainly remember waking up strapped to a board being loaded into an ambulance with my father standing over me...
my decision to buy a scooter was a significant one, as i have sold my car and am using the buddy as my sole transportation... and for me, as an intelligent person, safety was a HUGE concern... if someone else does not share that concern, it is no skin off my back... i would like to think that most of us on this message board are mature adults with enough common sense to make an informed decision, and to weed out the factual from the questionable( as in the case of supposedly "scientific" studies)... you are all welcome to make your own decisions about safety equipment in my book, and i have put thought and research into my decision... thank you to all of you for posting whatever information you had at hand for me to read and digest...
i am loving the scooter, i am wearing my helmet, but no critical thoughts pop into my head when someone suggests that i should not, or disagrees with me...

...and i think that my b125 will attain the name of mantis, and will slowly aquire some flat black, some camo, and i am taking my time considering some more drastic creative mods...
thank you all...

castleton · Post by **castleton** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:31 pm

How are you liking the scorpion? I just ordered an exo400, orange design of course, which will be in by next Wednesday. When I tried it on, it fit so well I couldn't believe it, even with my glasses on! Kinda the way the orange buddy fit me perfectly when I first test-rode it.

I commute 76 miles round trip every day there's good weather, and I just topped 1000 miles (had my oil change/service check up at about 490).

More power to ya, Lou! Stay safe & have fun!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:55 pm

I almost went with the orange too. It was a close call but I decieded to go with the Cream. I really dont think there is a bad color out there! Mantis ehhh... Gonna make those little knockouts on the front into eyes?

ScooterMonkey · Post by **ScooterMonkey** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:13 am

well lou after reading your post about your accident I decided to add my noise to the chorus of good sense.
First let me say I don't believe in forcing people to do anything "for their own good", if you want to ride around without a helmet all I can say is go for it. Just don't go spreading BS about it being safer. It's not.
I know from personal experience. Not like lou tho. I've been on the other end. I've been an EMT here in Tempe for almost 13 years, & I've been on the scene of many MC accidents. Generally the rider is either pretty much ok(minus some minor road rash), or they're completely FUBAR. The difference much of the time is because of what they were wearing. That helmet, the armored jacket, pants, & gloves won't gaurantee(sp) that you won't be hurt, or even that you'll survive, but nothing will. It can make the difference between a few bruises & broken bones,& a casket, or a wheelchair.
But I don't want to force anybody to do anything. If you really don't want to wear a helmet or any of that other stuff then don't. It's your body, & your life. Just do the rest of the world a favor & fill out your organ donor card before you get on that scooter again.
Happy Scootering!

Blackeyes24 · Post by **Blackeyes24** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:00 am

BoneGirl wrote:A lot of these folks have no insurance or means of paying for their injuries. Maybe this is why the government enforces certain safety laws. Otherwise the state has to suck up the costs.

Florida deals with this by requiring you wear a helmet if you dont have a certain amount of medical coverage. I dont know the exact amount since I wear a helmet and never worried about it but I think its a good plan.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:25 am

castleton wrote:How are you liking the scorpion? I just ordered an exo400, orange design of course, which will be in by next Wednesday. When I tried it on, it fit so well I couldn't believe it, even with my glasses on! Kinda the way the orange buddy fit me perfectly when I first test-rode it.

the scorpion is working very well... i certainly feel as though i got my money's worth... i will have to look up the orange design, i dont remember it... btw, i got the silver face shield, and it looks super badass...

castleton · Post by **castleton** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:19 pm

Here's a page with a pic of the orange sting helmet:

http://www.helmetharbor.com/estore/prod ... 00+Helmets

I can't wait. I also picked up these gloves on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOTORCYC ... enameZWD1V

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:37 pm

Lou, I am tickled that you got your new Buddy. I, too, use mine for my sole transportation. Once I traded my Bajaj for my Buddy and haven't even gotten into a car since, my wife loaned my Chrysler to a co-worker whose engine blew up, so I, too, have a Buddy as my sole transportation!

I see you live in Phoenix. If you'd like to hang with other scooter enthusiasts and enjoy monthly rides (sometimes more often) with an eclectic group of folks, check out the Scarabs. You can find them at scarabsc dot com or phxscarabsc dot com slash forum slash index dot php.

Maybe next time I ride to Phx. I'll see you around! Enjoy!

--Keys

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:41 am

yo castleton... helmetharbor is where i got the 700... the store proper is in mesa, southeastern "suburb" of phx... good peoples... and i really wanted a solid orange lid, but the flat black was more than acceptable... the orange sting is hot, though... i actually did see that model, and considered it, but the flat black fit in better with my asthetic plan for my b125...

CaliGirl · Post by **CaliGirl** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:00 am

lou76 wrote: ...and i think that my b125 will attain the name of mantis, and will slowly aquire some flat black, some camo, and i am taking my time considering some more drastic creative mods...
thank you all...

Nice! I love camo, please show us pictures when you can.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:07 pm

i most certainly will...

Modern Buddy

FINALLY....

FINALLY....

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Going down hard

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