Stella or Buddy?

Threegoofs · Post by **Threegoofs** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:17 am

OK- In my last post, you disabused me of the notion that I will be able to get a 50cc scooter without having to get a motorcycle license.

So - maybe I should just go and get the damn license and go for a higher powered scooter.... that way I can carry a second person with no problem.

So now my question is... why not a Stella? I know - its gonna be about $1K more, but I think the manual shifiting thing is cool, and it looks incredible. But is a manual transmission bad? I love driving stickshift in a car.

Is there a reason that I might want a Buddy125 over a Stella, assuming cost is not an issue?

Leeroy Jenkins · Post by **Leeroy Jenkins** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:20 am

IMHO

take the MSF class no matter what you get.

Then test ride the bikes, then decide after you ahve ridden the scoots.

All are good bikes, but I think the fiddies are useless.

Just my $0.02

~Lee Jenkins

ryder1 · Post by **ryder1** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:21 am

If you have the perseverance to go for the M endorsement, go for the 125 because you will be much happier in the long run with the versatility in riding wiith a 125.

Can you ride on a permit or do you need an endorsed rider with you?

whatever...you'll like the 125 w/out a doubt.

louie · Post by **louie** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:23 am

fiddies?

Threegoofs · Post by **Threegoofs** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:24 am

ryder1 wrote:If you have the perseverance to go for the M endorsement, go for the 125 because you will be much happier in the long run with the versatility in riding wiith a 125.

Can you ride on a permit or do you need an endorsed rider with you?

whatever...you'll like the 125 w/out a doubt.

Well - I was just gonna buy the bike and get the endorsement sometime this summer, after I practice with the scooter. You need to have an endorsed rider supervising you on a permit in IL.

ryder1 · Post by **ryder1** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:27 am

Get the 125 you will very pleased with it and no regrets.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:48 am

The Buddy and the Stella are very different scoots - as different as two 125/150 scoots can be. You really need a little exposure to each to decide the way you want to go. Both are sound choices but nobody else can tell you which one works for you. Modern design, quick, plastic paneled, 4 stroke versus heavy steel, manual shift, classic design, 2 stroke.

Now to the other point - take the MSF course now and get your endorsement. You are talking about buying a $3000-3500 scooter that you can't even test drive.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:25 am

Given that you're new to scootering, I honestly think you'll love whichever you get and that your riding and so on will adapt to the scooter as you bond with it. Like a puppy.

That said, had I been able to buy a Stella in CA when I got my first scooter, I would have bought one. But I am very much into that classic scooter thing, while many Buddy owners aren't. So...

Apiarist · Post by **Apiarist** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:38 am

louie sez:

fiddies?

there are 2 fiddies in a hunner

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed May 21, 2008 1:20 pm

The stella and buddy are two different bikes

Stella:

PROS:

25 more cc
Classic styling
Glove box with closed door
Readily available parts from scooterworks (same parts as px150)
Larger body, easier to carry passenger

CONS:
Heavier than a buddy
50-55mph top end for most people with stock parts
crash it, and dont be surprised to pay thousands at a body shop for a simple repair
Takes long time to warm up during cold season/break in
most of the weight is on the right of the bike.

Buddy

PROS:
Ligther bike
Top speed of 60-65mph
if crashed, body can be replaced for a few hundred dollars
slightly 6-700 dollars cheaper than a stella

Cons:
Some parts genuine may not stock all the time since they never fix a certain part of the bike, if something odd malfunctions, it may take a few weeks to order the part and get it fixed if it's a odd part.

25 less CC if you get the 125

Smaller body, slightly cramped when carrying a passenger, but it can be done.

Depends if you want to shift all the time, or not, and if you have the money

EDIT: You said you know how to drive stick shift in a car? It should be slightly similar, hold the clutch in when braking and downshift smoothly, hold the clutch in at a stop unless in neutral, sorta like a car, except you do everything with your left hand.

Threegoofs · Post by **Threegoofs** » Wed May 21, 2008 1:54 pm

jfrost - that was a great reply. Great details and very helpful.

I actually DO want to shift all the time, and I do have the money, although I dont like the concept of expensive repairs on a crash at all. That may be a deal breaker for me. I wonder if a Stella is peppier with a two stroke engine vs. the Buddy 4 stroke?

kilted texan · Post by **kilted texan** » Wed May 21, 2008 2:57 pm

3GOOFS - check out this Buddy review.

Here is a Stella forum.

mlstephens · Post by **mlstephens** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:03 pm

Threegoofs wrote:jfrost - that was a great reply. Great details and very helpful.

I actually DO want to shift all the time, and I do have the money, although I dont like the concept of expensive repairs on a crash at all. That may be a deal breaker for me. I wonder if a Stella is peppier with a two stroke engine vs. the Buddy 4 stroke?

I owned both a Buddy 125 and a Stella. The Buddy is significantly faster 0-30, and has a 5mph faster top end. It is MUCH easier to learn to ride, requires very little maintenance, and gets much better fuel mileage. It is a lot of fun.

That being said, when I sold one, I sold the Buddy. Although there are days when I miss it (like now when my Stella has a 2-stroke oil leak).

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:08 pm

The buddy will outrun a stella because of it's lighter body, if you were going to "drag race them" they'd go almost the same, the stella being more powerful, but heavier, the buddy being weaker, but a ton lighter. In the long run, once you hit 55, the buddy will go zooming by.

I wouldnt let big repair bills if you crashed steer you away from the purchase, I mean it's a part of owning a bike, or even a car, all cars are made of steel, you get into a bad crash, you gotta fix it.

I didnt mention, but the stella really is a "old" bike. It's made with 1970's technology, and it isnt modern like the buddy is, there will be times where you need to be "Mr. Fix it" and play with it. Theres times like that too on the buddy, but they are more modern and have better technology built in.

Also consider how you will bring it home. Do you have a truck? or will the dealer deliver it for free (most do it for free if they do deliver). If you have a van or large SUV, measure the height and width of the trunk opening, measure the stella, will it fit? Same for the buddy. Measure from the wheel to the headset, from the front fender to the very rear of the bike. Take mirrors off too.

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:15 pm

although most here are trying to be very helpful, and they are. Do not steer away from the Stella. Not only is it a more classic looking bike, there are so many thousands more of modifications, you can do to it for dirt cheap to make it go fast, speed should not even be a consideration at all.

I have had my Stella for two months now, and 2000 miles. I love shifting and it is not an inconvience at all. I have yet to meet a buddy I cannot hang with and I have done zero mods to it. It is not right side heavy as some would suppose.

I did a short review a couple weeks back, search for it and make your own decision. IMHO, the Buddy, as nice of a bike as it is, is a bit on the smallish side. I say that but will be getting one for my wife at the beginning of next year. I would not want to be cramped all day though, as much as I am on my scoot.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:23 pm

I think going and sitting on them is the biggest thing to steer people to a certain bike. I would still consider both bikes, but go sit on one, put down the center stand and roll back and forth with your legs, is it comfortable? Which one has more leg room, or which one feels more for you?

There have been members where they get hyped, want to buy a buddy, then when they actually go sit on it, they are too tall for it, or they want a stella, and they are too short, or some other reason for both bikes.

I do agree though, there are tons of cheap performance parts for the stella/px, and they are pretty cheap and can add serious power to the bike. A prima pipe, cylinder kit, and other small upgrades can make the bike go 70-80mph.

I think though the stella could have been made with some plastic parts to make it lighter, the cowls could have been made of heavy duty plastic, the front fender, headset, and glove box could also be plastic. It would probably take 20-30 pounds off if all these were made lighter.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:26 pm

Apiarist wrote:louie sez:
fiddies?
there are 2 fiddies in a hunner

just so we are clear, hunner = hundo?

and having many many hundos = stacks of cheese?

Threegoofs · Post by **Threegoofs** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:32 pm

Thanks, everyone. I think you may have cured me of my Stella tendencies.
I love the look of the bike, and I love the manual trans, but the mechanical stuff is something I dont think I'll enjoy too much- I can see a cable breaking - and me leaving it in the garage all summer before I get around to fixing it...

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:48 pm

You can see alot of that on scoot.net

People have an old P series (vespa's brand, 100% same as stella) who broke a small part, but they didnt want to fix it, left it in their garage for 20 years, then sell it online.

Then theres people who say "I'm going to restore this bike!" and they rip apart a nice bike, but then they cant put it back together. Sell.

I still wouldnt let mechanics steer you away, it isnt everyday a cable breaks, the buddy is similar, it has a throttle cable too. It's rare for them to break, and if they do, just let the dealer or someone experienced handle it.

EDIT: I really love the style of the stella too, more than the buddy. It really is a classic looking bike, but if you dont want to deal with certain things about it, you can look at the buddy too. Just because you cant have a stella now doesn't mean you can have one someday after you learn to ride a scooter. There are rumors everyday of a 2009 or 2010 automatic stella. LML who makes the stella for genuine already has a working 200cc and 250cc version of this automatic bike. But genuine decides if they import or not. You never know, there may be a auto stella in a few years.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed May 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Threegoofs wrote:Thanks, everyone. I think you may have cured me of my Stella tendencies.
I love the look of the bike, and I love the manual trans, but the mechanical stuff is something I dont think I'll enjoy too much- I can see a cable breaking - and me leaving it in the garage all summer before I get around to fixing it...

Despite its "vintage" roots, the Stella is a new scooter with a warranty. The Buddy has just as many parts that wear out an need replacing. Really, that shouldn't be as much of a consideration as how you fit on the scoot, how it feels and how it rides.

Also, a crash on a Stella that would require extensive body repairs would total a Buddy. The cost of repairs would probably not be in the thousands—those cowls are replaceable, it's not like a modern Vespa.

NathanielSalzman · Post by **NathanielSalzman** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:13 pm

The Buddy is not better, it's just different.

Having owned a Vespa P200E (same as a Stella, but the Stella has better brakes and shocks), a Buddy 125, and a Blur 150, the question for you is really one of what do you want from your scooter. Consider these:

Style
I LOVE the look of the old and new Vespas. That's mostly why I bought my P200. I wanted to be part of that old romantic notion of buzzing 'round on two wheels. The Stella is a brand new classic. Short of being an automatic, it's the most modern and advanced version of that old style of scooter that could possibly be. Everything is metal and solid and the whole bike just looks and feels like it ought to.

The Buddy is a modern take on the old small frame Vespa. It's got plastic body panels and goofy, tacked-on DOT turn signals, but it retains a fabulous cuteness that few modern scooters have been able capture as well. It has a great level of fit and finish for its price.

So I'd recommend you ask yourself the question I should have asked myself before buying the Vespa: Do you want to be seen a certain way for what you're riding, or do you want to enjoy the ride? You can enjoy the ride on both, don't get me wrong, but they are very different.

What the scooter demands of you
The Vespa was a bit of a handful. Not in a bad way, but there is simply more to think about. You've got to be mindful of what gear your in at all times, you've got to clutch, you've got to run one brake with your foot and the other with your hand. You have to take corners sort of in segments rather than one deep lean. These are not bad things, but it's worth considering ahead of time if that's the kind of riding you want to do. For me, I sold my Vespa because all the attention I had to pay to the scooter took away from the sheer joy of riding it. I'd love to have another one, or a Stella, as a second or third scooter. But for now I'm commuting and taking long rides and if I can only have one scoot, I'd rather that riding it didn't get in the way of riding it.

The Buddy is the quintessential hop-on-and-go scooter. You twist the throttle and you're off. You stop at a light and that's all you have to do: stop. You don't have to notch into 1st before you quit rolling, you don't have to clutch out when the light turns, you can put both your feet down as you're stopping. And when it's time to go, just twist and hang on. Simple. Not better, but different.

Riding position
Here's an area of huge different between the two scooters. I'm 6'4" and I fit very easily on the Vespa/Stella. A Buddy is less comfortable. My feet don't really fit in the floorboard. However, you could have the opposite experience and the Buddy's lower seat height could make a bid difference for you. Riding comfort makes a HUGE difference. If the scooter isn't comfortable, you're not going to want to keep riding it. The seat on my Blur is just awful. My riding position is fine, but I'll be taking steps to pad that sucker up a bit. It's like sitting on a plastic folding chair that's too tall for you. Do that for a couple hours and you're going to have an arse-ache.

Power
The engine/transmission setups on these two scoots couldn't be any more different unless one was electric-diesel hybrid. You've got a 2T manual 150 cc vs a 4T CVT 125 cc. The Buddy is quick, there's no denying it. But the Stella will have a little more grunt because you're getting ignition on every cycle of the engine - especially once you're already going. The weight difference isn't as much as you think (less than 40 lbs if I remember correctly). Of course there is also the 150 cc versions of the Buddy available. That'd be a screamer I bet.

Maintenance and mechanical reliability
If you were looking at an older Vespa and not a Stella, then I'd say you'd need to be mindful of the amount of maintenance required and carrying a plethora of tools and spare parts 'round with you everywhere. But starting from new, I imagine it won't take a whole lot more attention than a Buddy would when properly looked after. You've got to keep 2T oil in the reservoir on a Stella and change the gear oil at regular intervals. But you've also got to change the oil and filter on a Buddy, on top of the gear oil. So it's a wash. Sure, there's an extra cable for the clutch on the Stella, but there are cables on the Buddy as well - even the brakes - they're pulling on hydraulic master cylinders instead of brake drum levers. Still cables though. Beyond that, the LML motor in the Stella runs like a top and pretty much 95% of Vespa P-series parts are bolt-on to the Stella so you'll have decades of parts availability even if LML folded tomorrow. Likewise PGO isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Anyway, keep in mind that the biggest factor in your scooter ownership will be your riding experience. That's why you have the thing in the first place. For your first scoot, my personal recommendation would be to get a Buddy, then a year from now, or whenever it's possible/practical, add a Stella to your fleet. You can't have too many scooters

Apiarist · Post by **Apiarist** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:14 pm

Mikie Taps sez:

just so we are clear, hunner = hundo?

and having many many hundos = stacks of cheese?

yes, hunner = hundo, and many many hunners does make for a nice stack of cheese.

also, i love the look of the stella even though i bought a buddy. i think it was the best choice for a first scooter. if i ever own a house with a garage, i'd like to pick up a stella. so stylin' they are.

heavypetting · Post by **heavypetting** » Thu May 22, 2008 1:16 am

My Genuine dealer steered me away from the Stella. He explained Stellas spend way more time in the shop and don't age well. Electrical issues abound and it's just not as easy as a roll & go scoot.

If you really love shifting, get a motorcycle. You can get a great bike with low miles for the same or less than a new scoot. I still miss shiftimng sometimes. Nothing like that shift into 1st and pulling away at a light. However, having experienced both, a scooter is much more fun to ride.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Thu May 22, 2008 2:09 am

Oh boy, to shift or not to shift? How do you plan on riding and using this vehicle? If storage is not a priority a motorcycle may be a better choice. If you want the built in room to bring things home from the grocery store go with a scooter. Get what you feel is right, buy with some well educated emotions and enjoy the heck outta what you ride. If I had something other than a scoot it'd probably be a motard style bike, or a TW200 (yamaha). Small, fun and inexpensive. If I need to go on a long highway ride to get to point "B" I still have my cage

JokerJim · Post by **JokerJim** » Thu May 22, 2008 3:25 am

just get BOTH

They look really cool side-by-side.

Joker