Notes on Oil Change

[jess]

I did the hard break-in method, and so had to change the oil after about the first 20 miles or so, as prescribed. Oil change was relatively easy -- there's a drain bolt right underneath the dipstick, and it's sealed with an O-ring. I drained it into a catch (which barely fit under there, between the wheel and the center stand) and the oil had nice fine metal dust suspended in it. Relatively clean, aside from the superfine metal. There were also two larger bits of metal, probably molding flash from somewhere in the engine. All in all, completely normal and expected. The superfine metal dust tells me that the crosshatch pattern on the cylinder walls did it's job and honed down the piston rings.

Only mishap was caused by following the directions, which state (on the little sticker next to the dipstick) to put 0.8 liters into the engine (total capacity is 0.9 liters) and then run the engine for 3 minutes, turn it off, and check the level with the dipstick before adding any more.

I bought a nifty funnel with measurements, a valve, and a hose on the end so as to put a precise 0.8 liters into the engine. However, this turned out to be too much -- it was clearly past the "Hi" mark on the dipstick. I used a turkey injector (think large syringe) to then remove some of the oil until it got back down to a more appropriate mark on the dipstick. If I do the oil change again, I'm going to start somewhere closer to 0.6 or 0.7 liters and see where that puts me. It's easier to add more than to take some out.

Oh, one other thing -- the label calls for 15W40 oil, which is kind of an odd blend. I wasn't able to find anything in that weight, and so used 10W40.

[mlstephens]

Was there a filter attached to the drain bolt? The manual mentions one.
Any surprises with the oil filter?

[jess]

Not a filter, per se, just a screen about the size and shape of a thimble, with the spring from the plug kind of wrapped around it.

[Bryce-O-Rama]

Is there a disposable filter, or do they run the screen filters that Kymcos do?

[Beamie]

What is the "hard break-in"?

[jess]

Is there a disposable filter, or do they run the screen filters that Kymcos do?

Well, according to information elsewhere here on MB, it runs a disposable filter as well as the screen. My dealer said just change the oil for this initial 20-mile interval, though, and don't bother with the filter. He'll do a more complete oil and filter change (along with a once-over) at the end of the standard break-in period.

[jess]

What is the "hard break-in"?

Here's my previous description.

[Beamie]

Is there a disposable filter, or do they run the screen filters that Kymcos do?

Old English motorcycles just had a screen in the sump and they called it a filter. It gets washed in solvent with each oil change. But it is minimally effective judged by the fact that oil changes were required every 1000 miles.

[Beamie]

What is the "hard break-in"?

Here's my previous description.

But do you know that they use the finer honing on the buddy?

What clued me into this particular point is that the description of the method claims that the finer honing of the jug results in less operating heat.

The owners manual makes a statement that leads me to believe that the Buddy generates excessive heat during break-in because they suggest cool down periods every hour during the first 100 miles.

[jess]

But do you know that they use the finer honing on the buddy?

Well, the metal dust had to come from somewhere.

The owners manual makes a statement that leads me to believe that the Buddy generates excessive heat during break-in because they suggest cool down periods every hour during the first 100 miles.

I'd expect a statement like that to be in the owner's manual regardless. Like I said in the other post, though, it's a bit of an unscientific experiment. It could all go terribly wrong, which is why I'm not telling everyone else that they should be doing this too.

[Beamie]

Thanks for the information.

[Beamie]

Well, the metal dust had to come from somewhere.

I have a 1976 Triumph with 14,000 miles that always puts silver color speckles in the oil. In my case it is just an indication of normal bearing and piston wear, both of which are from aluminum.

[mlstephens]

Oh, one other thing -- the label calls for 15W40 oil, which is kind of an odd blend. I wasn't able to find anything in that weight, and so used 10W40.

Thanks for the detail Jess. 15w-40 is indeed a difficult weight to find, and
the difference between 10w and 15w is not all that critical, particularly in
our application. 10w-40 should work fine, and is certainly more available.

I've ordered synthetic Amsoil Motorcycle Oil 10w-40 to replace the mineral oil after
the break-in period (as it isn't good to use synthetics during engine break-in as a general rule).
I contacted Amsoil for a cross-reference gear oil, and the recommended
140 weight oil is: 75w-140. Straight 140 is not common, and synthetic 75w-140 should be great.
One quart should last a long long time, as we're using 90cc at 300km and
then every 2500km according to the schedule.

[Javarod]

What's interesting is I remember having 15W40 in stock when I worked at an auto parts store, it was being marketed as import engine oil, plus one of the synthetics we sold didn't have anything with a 10W, it was all 15W and up.

[mlstephens]

What's interesting is I remember having 15W40 in stock when I worked at an auto parts store, it was being marketed as import engine oil, plus one of the synthetics we sold didn't have anything with a 10W, it was all 15W and up.

It used to be that way, but a number of factors, including improving fleet fuel mileage, better synthetic technology and base stocks, tighter engine mfg tolerances, etc., have all led to synthetics going to lower and lower cold flow viscosity numbers. 0w and 5w oil is now commonplace, and the "euro" oil is typically 5w-40 or 0w-30 synthetic. Sounds crazy, but the oils are that good. The flow properties are amazing, and extended drain intervals are becoming much better accepted. The oils will last (in a properly running motor) much longer than the filter will.

[mlstephens]

Is there a disposable filter, or do they run the screen filters that Kymcos do?

Here are photos of the filter:

[jess]

What's interesting is I remember having 15W40 in stock when I worked at an auto parts store, it was being marketed as import engine oil, plus one of the synthetics we sold didn't have anything with a 10W, it was all 15W and up.

Yeah, I did find one variety of 15W40, but it was a synthetic for diesel SUVs or something. Since synthetic (as mlstephens noted) isn't recommended for break-in period, I skipped it.

[Beamie]

Yeah, I did find one variety of 15W40, but it was a synthetic for diesel SUVs or something. Since synthetic (as mlstephens noted) isn't recommended for break-in period, I skipped it.

Right don't use synthetic.
Our vette came from the factory with synthetic and was still developing oil control at 3500 miles. There isn't enough friction with synthetic.

[mlstephens]

Yeah, I did find one variety of 15W40, but it was a synthetic for diesel SUVs or something. Since synthetic (as mlstephens noted) isn't recommended for break-in period, I skipped it.

Right don't use synthetic.
Our vette came from the factory with synthetic and was still developing oil control at 3500 miles. There isn't enough friction with synthetic.

For the same reason (low friction) synthetic oil is the way to go after break-in to reduce engine wear, operating temperatures, mileage, etc.

[Beamie]

For the same reason (low friction) synthetic oil is the way to go after break-in to reduce engine wear, operating temperatures, mileage, etc.

I have heard complaints that it can be the cause of oil leaks though due to the reason that it doesn't swell the gaskets to maintain the seal.
I haven't tempted that issue; it would be a self-inflicted wound and a pet peeve that I prefer to avoid.

[jess]

I like synthetics in my cars quite a bit, at least once they've been broken in. It allows me to significantly extend the period between changes, as one of the cars in particular gets a fair amount of mileage and I (or my wife) just don't have the patience to have the oil changed every couple of weeks.

I haven't tried synthetics in any of my scooters, though.

[ellen]

Do you think Shell Rotella 15W40 will work okay?
I think my local Autozone carries it.



Based on the dealers recommendation I use synthetic in my Stella. (Motul 2-stroke). But heard that on 4 stokes you should only use dino during the break in.

[mlstephens]

Rotella T is a very good oil, highly recommended on Bob is the Oil Guy Forums if memory serves correct, and should work fine. It has mineral content that is good for older design motors in particular (which might be more appropriate for our single-cylinder motors). You are correct, dino oil during break-in and then whatever your pleasure; mine happens to be Amsoil synthetic.

[mlstephens]

Just received my PGO-branded oil filters from Randolph at Garners Classic Scooters; he ordered them from Genuine on Monday & received them Wed, turned them around in the mail to me; quick service! I can't believe how small they are. The hex "nut" on the end of the filter should make the change easy.

[OkieBuddy]

I saw 15w40 oil at your local Super Walmart today. They have Rotella T and Chevron in the automotive section for about $2.88 each.

[ellen]

I saw 15w40 oil at your local Super Walmart today. They have Rotella T and Chevron in the automotive section for about $2.88 each.

Dang.. Should have tried Walmart. Autozone had a bunch of different 15w40. But only in gallon size. So I got a gallon of Rotella T for $8. Guess its good for 4 oil changes. Now only if I could track down those filters

[Beamie]

Anyone with a source for filters please post it.

[mlstephens]

Randolph at www.garnersclassicscooters.com should have a couple in stock.

If not, I'm told (but not verified) that it is the same filter that the Vespa ET4 uses; if so, there are numerous sources on the web to buy the aftermarket filter, which is a lot lower in price than the Piaggio OEM filter. Try http://www.scooterpartsdirect.com/cat.p ... cat_id=369