"deceptively high confidence"

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lobsterman
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"deceptively high confidence"

Post by lobsterman »

Ericalm mentioned in another post that he thinks the Buddy might encourage "deceptively high confidence". I think he's right.

Let me preface this with this disclaimer: the only hand throttle vehicles I have ever ridden before were a minibike or two as a kid over thirty years ago, and about an hour on my nephew's ATV last Thanksgiving.

I took my pre-delivery lesson with Seth at Metro Scooters yesterday. Man, the Buddy is so easy to ride! I know I am going to have to reign in my desire to accelerate and corner faster than is wise.

Seth told me to do some starts and stops to get the feel for the scooter and it's brakes. I very quickly found myself wanting to go faster, slalom around the poles and such. I was in an emtpy parking lot with lots of room but still, I kept having to tell myself to take easy. My first try at an emergency stop had me doing a wheelie on the front wheel (I think I might want to lean back a little next time and take it easier on the front brake).

I will be doing a lot of practicing in a parking lot by my house and in the neighborhood before I ride the Buddy to work, and I know a big part of it will have to be conscious self-control. Since I am 43 and not 17, I know I am not invincible so I will want to be careful.

All that said, riding the Buddy was a blast, even in the parking lot, and I can't wait to take delivery later this week.
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ericalm
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Re: "deceptively high confidence"

Post by ericalm »

lobsterman wrote:I will be doing a lot of practicing in a parking lot by my house and in the neighborhood before I ride the Buddy to work, and I know a big part of it will have to be conscious self-control. Since I am 43 and not 17, I know I am not invincible so I will want to be careful.
The ease of learning to ride on a Buddy was one of its big selling points when we bought one but I'm starting to see it as a liability as well. The Buddy has a lot of appeal to new riders, many of whom have limited experience with any 2-wheeled vehicle, and younger riders. I was a pretty reckless thrillseeker when I was younger, and could find a way to turn any activity into something potentially life-threatening and dangerous. Some people just have a knack for that. So I definitely understand the urge to do some pretty boneheaded things.

Even those not trying to pull stunts can fall victim to this, as we've heard on other threads. I almost think dealers should warn people. And give new buyers 15% off coupons for the MSF course!

"Conscious self-control" is great advice. I recently failed my invulnerability test (I do every time and have a few decades worth of scars and, now, an asymmetrical shoulder to show for it). Anyone else want to try for different results?
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castleton
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Post by castleton »

The MSF course "textbook" has a page with a "crash chain" of events pictured--it's really stuck in my head. In the long run, I think that it's not so much ease of riding, lack of experience, or lack of expertise: it's the combination of "risk factors": the more risk factors, the more likely the crash.

[shamelessly quoting from the rider course:]
Risk factors include: rider-related issues (fatigue, skill level, inattention, speed too fast), machine-related issues (tire condition, suspension, maintenance), road and environment issues (curves, glare, rain), and other traffic-related issues (intersections, idiotic cagers, too many damn cars around).

(ok those last 2 weren't quoted precisely, but you get the drift.)

Awareness of these factors, and how many are at play at any given time, and taking action to reduce/eliminate some or all of these factors, helps minimize risk. I don't think anything totally erases risk, as has been stated elsewhere!
--Pam
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"You're not the boss of me, now."
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Bryce-O-Rama
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Post by Bryce-O-Rama »

My review of the Buddy stated pretty much the same thing. It's a really easy scooter to ride, and it's pretty forgiving most of the time. After a week with a Buddy, I felt like I had been riding one for several months.

I could see new riders thinking they are hot stuff after a couple of weeks and hitting a patch of sand or water on the road while riding way too agressively. It makes new and mediocre riders look and feel like they are near expert. You've really got to fight that feeling and keep things somewhat sensible.
- Bryce
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gt1000
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Post by gt1000 »

I looked around and didn't see this covered, so if it has, I apologize. Castleton alluded to it but I'd take it a step further: if you're depending on your scooter as daily transportation, you'd be well advised to take the MSF class ASAP. I don't really care if you're riding a 50 or a superbike, the class will help and could just save your hide. If you've already done a stoppie and survived, good for you! But don't try to cheat fate.

I'm getting on in years. I've been riding various forms of motorized two wheelers since the '70's but took a long break after my daughter was born. I got my first scooter about 4 years ago and it reminded me about everything I loved about 2 wheelers. I knew before long I'd want something bigger for the canyons so I took the MSF class this past summer. I couldn't believe how much I learned and how many bad habits I'd picked up!

On 2 wheelers, certain actions demand counter-intuitive driver inputs. Knowing when to use those inputs can make a big difference.

And, if you've taken the course, sorry I wasted the bandwidth.
:oops:
Andy

2006 Buddy 125 (orange), going to a good MB home
2009 Vespa 250 GTS (black)
2012 Triumph Tiger 800 (black)
2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, traded for Tiger 800
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jess
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Post by jess »

Excellent points, guys.
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lobsterman
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Post by lobsterman »

gt1000,

Thanks for the good advice. I do intend to take the course, I want to be as prepared as I can so I can maximize my own safety and the safety of those around me.

As for the stoppie... I think Seth knew what would happen when he suggested I try an emergency stop. He told me to do a turn and then imagine someone had stopped right in front of me. I expect he wanted me to experience that in the relative safety and slowness of the parking lot before it happened for real on the road. Maybe he wasn't planning for me to go up on the front wheel, I don't know. I kept my balance and came down where I should instead of in front of the bike, so it turned out OK and was a good learning experience for me. I have no intention of trying to cheat fate by trying to make it happen again.
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Post by AxeYrCat »

Ha! I *very* seriously doubt that Seth would have intentionally suggested you pull a Stoppie. :lol:


But yes, good that you did it in the parking lot (and now know how it happens and how to avoid doing it) when there weren't others around.


(And isn't that a great practice lot?!) :D
Huh? What just happened?
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lobsterman
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Post by lobsterman »

OK, you're probably right, on reflection I doubt Seth intended I do a stoppie. But he certainly wanted me to know what a panic stop felt like. He didn't give me a hard time about it either. I rode up to him after I did it expecting a lecture, but he was very cool about it. We just talked about how those brakes can really stop the bike.

And yes, that is a seriously great practice lot. I wish it was closer to my house so I could do more practicing there. The lesser lot a block from home will have to do for my pre-test practice.

For those not in Cincinnati, Metro Scooters is just a block away from a college sporting event overflow lot that is very rarely used during the day. It's long, wide enough, sloped in places, and comes complete with some interesting obstacles to ride around. Perfect for an intro lesson.

If you use Google Maps http://maps.google.com and put in the address for Metro (3700 montgomery road, 45207), choose the satellite view and zoom all the way in, you can see the lot just north-west of Metro Scooters. You can even see the scooters in the lot at Metro, if you know where they are anyway. :)
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gt1000
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Post by gt1000 »

I do intend to take the course, I want to be as prepared as I can so I can maximize my own safety and the safety of those around me.
It may be the best $190 you'll ever spend. I'll be curious to hear your opinion of the class once you've "graduated". A lot depends on the instructors, but the class itself is pretty much standardized. You can get a head start on the class by going to the MSF website and snooping around. They have sample questions posted as well as descriptions of some of the exercises. Also, most of what's taught at an MSF class can be found in the book "Proficient Motorcyling" by Hough. I'm sure that book has been mentioned somewhere on this forum.

It's not just the Buddy. All CVT scoots are deceptively easy to ride. But the Buddy (and really any scoot over 125cc) ups the risk factor because it's capable of fairly high speeds. Of course, there are also situations where that added power can help you out of a jam.
Andy

2006 Buddy 125 (orange), going to a good MB home
2009 Vespa 250 GTS (black)
2012 Triumph Tiger 800 (black)
2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, traded for Tiger 800
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ericalm
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Post by ericalm »

gt1000 wrote:It's not just the Buddy. All CVT scoots are deceptively easy to ride. But the Buddy (and really any scoot over 125cc) ups the risk factor because it's capable of fairly high speeds. Of course, there are also situations where that added power can help you out of a jam.
I actually think there's more to the overconfidence factor with the Buddy. For one thing, a lot of people say the Buddy is much lighter than a Vespa or Kymco, when, in fact, the Buddy weighs almost the same as an LX150. But the way the weight is distributed makes it feel lighter and much easier to lean down to the stand.

High speeds may also contribute, but I'm not sure that it can be compared to other makes & models. An un-kitted Buddy is capable of wheelies; don't really know of many (or any) unmodified 125/150cc scoots that can do this.

I also wonder if the Buddy's relatively low cost, bright colors and plastic exterior create a perception among prospective buyers that the Buddy is a fast, motorized "toy" that shouldn't be taken as seriously as a motorcycle.
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Post by jess »

ericalm wrote:I actually think there's more to the overconfidence factor with the Buddy. For one thing, a lot of people say the Buddy is much lighter than a Vespa or Kymco, when, in fact, the Buddy weighs almost the same as an LX150. But the way the weight is distributed makes it feel lighter and much easier to lean down to the stand.
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement -- in the relatively short time I've been riding, I've ridden a lot of scooters: The Vespa ET4, GT200, LX150, and GTS250, a couple of Vintage Vespas (small and large frame) a Kymco People 150, a Piaggio LT150, a Piaggio X9, a Burgman (can't remember the displacement), a Honda Metro and a Big Ruckus, and probably a few I'm leaving out. Of all of those, the Buddy has been the easiest to ride by a wide margin. It's not just the twist-n-go aspect, it's the weight, the balance, the size, and the steering.

I'd say that could definitely lead to over-confidence. Almost anyone can drive like a superstar on a Buddy until they get to a patch of sand in a corner going even moderately fast.
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