Who's Crashed? [Crash Reports]

Eazy · Post by **Eazy** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:57 pm

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
It actually wasn't on a Buddy, I was on my red 2006 Honda Elite 80

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Yes and no. I was going around a newly built roundabout at about 30-35mph (way too fast) when I hit an rather large imperfection in the pavement. Because of the conditions (it's next to a fountain and was kind of windy) I thought I had entered a slide. I corrected and of course since I wasn't sliding it caused me to lose balance very quickly and lay the bike down into the direction of the turn.

3. Could the crash have been avoided?
Yes. We were going way too fast around it. This was the first wreck any of us have had after riding together for years so there was a little bit of cockiness I think.

4. Was the rider injured?
Yes. Severe concussion (no helmet), road rash and massive bruising from my ankle to my knee (wearing dickies shorts) and from my wrist to my elbow (wearing a track jacket), and a pretty fair amount of scrapes on the left side of my face that fortunately did not scar. It took me a little over a week to get to where I could walk decently because of the concussion and the fact that my knees are already messed up and that amount of force on it made my knee swell to the point I couldn't move it.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Broke the front plastic and scraped the left side up. Otherwise I picked it up and rode it come.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
I haven't actually repaired it yet, but it should cost me about $100 to fix the front plastic.

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
At the time no, in fact still to this day no. The state of Oregon is a real pain in the ass to deal with and they are blocking be from getting it because of a speeding ticket I received in 2005.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
No, I have however been riding motorcycles of one kind or another since I was about 15 and have been surrounded by them most of my life.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
30-35

11. How far was the rider from home?
Fortunately less than a mile. So I could go home and have an emotional breakdown.

Pita1963 · Post by **Pita1963** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:15 pm

ericalm wrote:Quite a few crash reports for the still-fairly-new Buddy have been posted on the forum. This has made me kind of curious about who has crashed and what the circumstances and results have been. So, an informal, non-judgmental survey for those with crashed Buddies (or those who live with somone with a crashed Buddy), with my own answers in the following post.

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
3. Could the crash have been avoided?
4. Was the rider injured?
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
10. How fast was the rider going?
11. How far was the rider from home?

1) Pamplona 150
2) No (see topic "It Happened") Afternoon
3) Don't think so
4) Minor Damage, banged up leg, etc
5) Broken headlight, bezel, topcase, various dings and scratches
6) Don't know yet
7) Motorcycle License
8) Yes
9) Yes
10) Maybe 5mph
11) 25 ....

Robb

scaps · Post by **scaps** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:01 am

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
'07 125 Black

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Yes, too fast on a counterbanked corner turning left with an arterial / 7:30am

3. Could the crash have been avoided?
Yes, should have been going slower.

4. Was the rider injured?
Bruise on right arm, bruising on left leg.
Wearing modular helmet, gloves, light armor jacket and jeans. No clothing tears or scuffs.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Jumped onto a curb and hit a rock wall both at about 45 degrees. Bent forks back hard enough to bend entire frame, damaged both stands, all of the front end plastic was shifted and disjointed. Motor ran, but idle was too low to run without throttle. No fluid leaks.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Estimate at 1100 for parts, and approx 12 hours labor for a total estimate around 2300. Have to replace the entire frame...

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Permit.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Not yet, she is planning on it. It was her first time scooting to work after two days with me in parking lots on quiet streets and running the route in traffic the day before with me following.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
No, she just bought her Italia 150 two weeks before and was riding my year old Buddy 125 just in case she dumped it in the first few weeks of training.

10. How fast was the rider going?
20-25mph

11. How far was the rider from home?
1.5mi from home, half way between work and home.

Happy to say that this has not deterred her from wanting to contiue scooting and making her Italia her daily commuter.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:18 am

scaps wrote:6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Estimate at 1100 for parts, and approx 12 hours labor for a total estimate around 2300. Have to replace the entire frame...

I thought they totaled your scoot if the frame was bent... ?

Sorry to hear about the crash, but glad you're not more seriously injured.

madtolive · Post by **madtolive** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:31 pm

Wow, I'm glad everyone is relatively okay. Eazy, I hope you heal quickly.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:43 pm

Estimate at 1100 for parts, and approx 12 hours labor for a total estimate around 2300. Have to replace the entire frame...

Sounds like new Buddy time to me....

I'm also surprised that insurance didn't total it! But most importantly I'm glad she's ok. Another testimony to the value of gearing up!

scaps · Post by **scaps** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:22 am

Submitting claim tomorrow. Agent said they would most likely total it as long as the cost of repair is >= 70% market value. Also told me that my insurance wouldn't increase more than 10% (approx $30/yr increase) and would not affect my auto rates. My dealer told me that if insurance totals it, they would buy it to salvage for parts.

Just changed jobs last week and now have to use the freeway to get work even though it is still less than 10 miles (job is on a freeway-access-only island, Mercer Island for those that know the area), so my next decision is whether to get a Scarabeo 500, 250cc starter motorcyle or a Civic Hybrid.

Thanks for the well wishes.
-Joel

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:30 am

scaps wrote:Just changed jobs last week and now have to use the freeway to get work even though it is still less than 10 miles (job is on a freeway-access-only island, Mercer Island for those that know the area), so my next decision is whether to get a Scarabeo 500, 250cc starter motorcyle or a Civic Hybrid.

I really like the Scarabeo, and I'm not really that into maxiscoots.

Good luck!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:35 am

scaps wrote: Happy to say that this has not deterred her from wanting to contiue scooting and making her Italia her daily commuter.

Glad she was not badly hurt and that it has not damped her enthusiasm. I also hope it sharpens the need to complete the MSF course BEFORE riding in urban area commuter traffic.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:49 am

Eazy wrote:1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
It actually wasn't on a Buddy, I was on my red 2006 Honda Elite 80

Jimminy Christmas! I hope some new riders read this one. Going "way too fast" around a round about. No helmet, wearing shorts, no MSF course, no motorcycle endorsement. Serious concussion. Not sure if it was his fault?

"Eazy" - I wish you well and hope you're back up on a scoot before long. In the meantime, please do everything you can to get the odds on your side.

UrbanBuddy82 · Post by **UrbanBuddy82** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:43 am

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
'08 Pampalona

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Yes, Took a turn too fast and hit the curb.

3. Could the crash have been avoided?
Yes, should have been going slower.

4. Was the rider injured?
Pretty bad road rash on right arm/hand, bruised wrist, bruised ego.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Luckily just a few scrapes to the side, broken right mirror, rode it home so not too mutch damage.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
TBD.

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Permit.
Umm, I was practicing for the test...

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
nope, having trouble justifying the cost ( I know what everyone will say)

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yep, sadly for less than 24 hours.

10. How fast was the rider going?
maybe 5-7mph...fast enough for me to bounce and slide

11. How far was the rider from home?
about 4 miles

Personal note:
I was out seeing what the scoot would do beings how I just got it. I made it the 4 miles in traffic from my apartment to the highschool football stadium parking lot so that I could practice in a controlled environment. It figures I would crash turning a corner off a main road. I learned a few things:
1. My Buddy doesn't turn on a dime.
2. It will hop a curb
3. crash jackets are a must...
4. gloves are a must..

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:50 am

UrbanBuddy82 wrote: 7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Permit.
Umm, I was practicing for the test...

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
nope, having trouble justifying the cost ( I know what everyone will say)

Well, do I even need to say it. What the hell, I will anyway. Take the MSF course and start taking this whole thing seriously!

I hope you bounce back quickly and are up on your scoot again. Learn from this one and move on. Have fun, ride safe.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:52 am

You'll learn to ride it, just remember to never use the handle bars for turning, leaning only. The buddy can turn on a dime if you know how to control it.

Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:33 am

There are 54 crash reports in this thread to date from roughly one and a half years. The statisticians tell me that it takes about 100 reports before you can begin to believe your results are showing real trends. Honestly, there's nothing I'd like better than to NEVER EVER reach that number. However, if we do, we'll have enough stats to write a real scientific paper. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, take note.

Good job starting this thread, Eric. And thank you Modern Buddy members for your candid responses to this survery!

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:23 am

UrbanBuddy82, sorry this had to be one of your first posts. Glad that you weren't more seriously injured.

I suspect there's going to be an increase in the number of crashes—usually relatively minor—within the first month or two of ownership. We've had several reports of this already on the forum. I suspect the incidence is much higher than the reports here would suggest because new riders are less likely to be forum members or to report them.

This is one of my major concerns about the current scooter rush. The media hype and sales pitches in dealerships all emphasize the ease and economy, while de-emphasizing safety, training and preparation. I don't want to rain on any parades or be Mr. Doom & Gloom, but people are going to be getting hurt.

Frankly, I'm surprised we've gone this long without a verified Buddy rider fatality being reported on the forum. I've been dreading it since day 1.

madtolive · Post by **madtolive** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:50 pm

Frankly, I'm surprised we've gone this long without a verified Buddy rider fatality being reported on the forum. I've been dreading it since day 1.

eric, i know you mean well, but pretty please don't jinx us.

i know its not really the business of the dealers, but i do wish they would mention the msf course, or at least have some fliers in the shop about scooter safety...

yesterday i was behind a black suburban for a good while, and when we both made a left turn and i was able to see the side of the vehicle, i saw that it was a hearse. freaked me the hell out, but i guess not as much as if he had been following me.

lets all take a moment to knock on wood, or throw salt over our left shoulder, rub a rabbits foot, or whatever it is your custom to do.

everyone be safe out there.

------

btw, any word on the buddy owner who crashed after almost getting robbed?

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:27 pm

Well, here is an idea. IMZ Ural, the US Division of Ural motorcycles, has been including a coupon with new bike purchases to cover much of the cost of the sidecar safety course. Perhaps Genuine could be induced to do something like that. It would be a great contribution to scooter safety.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:57 pm

I guess you could call it a "crash"...

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
2007 125 Italia.

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
kinda. I slid on some loose sand turning in to my street. Midday around 2-ish. The sand has been there forever and I almost always slide on it a little, but not enough to skid... This time I just hit a deep spot I guess.

3. Could the crash have been avoided?
kinda. I could've turned closer to the left side of the street, but my parents were behind me on the left so I was turning wider to give them room to pull in.

4. Was the rider injured?
no. Luckily I was wearing gloves and my trusty knee pads, cuz my scoot landed on top of my legs as I was sliding.(see photo)

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
broken headlight and chrome bezel, cracked headset, scratches... basically the exact same damage as my 'cat incident' just worse.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
not sure, probably about 50 bones.

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
license.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
no.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
maybe 15-20 mph.

11. How far was the rider from home?
about 40 yards

^^^that could've been my REAL knees. (of course I've had much worse damage to my real knees from skateboard/bicycle/razor scooter acidents in the past... that's why I wear kneepads)

louie · Post by **louie** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:40 pm

sorry krusty, glad you had those knee pads on.

about a month before i went scooter shopping a now friend but a stranger at the time was encouraged (by the owner of the euro sport bike dealer, bogart's) against her better judgement to take a buddy for a test ride. she did and laid it down a few blocks from the dealer then the owner got pissed and made her pay for the damages.

when i went in to check them out the salesman (not the owner) gave me the web page to the MSF and encouraged me to take the course then come back to shop. i did and glad of it.

today they no longer sell genuine and we've got a great
SCOOTER shop (magic city motorscooters) downtown that does.

btw, my crash post is from last june.

madtolive · Post by **madtolive** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:12 pm

aaagh, glad you were wearing those knee pads!! sorry bout your spill, krusty! that must have been hard for your parents to watch.

Penguinboy · Post by **Penguinboy** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:13 pm

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
'08 Buddy 150 International- San Tropez, aka, Dan Tropez

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Yes- my fault, mostly.... Right around noon.

3. Could the crash have been avoided?
Yes- I shouldn't have tried to go between the barrels

4. Was the rider injured?
Not really- just pride. And if the scoot wasn't scratched, I probably would've never told my wife! She's like Dr. Quincy though and she would've figured it out! Scrapped knee- didn't even break the skin. Wearing shorts, full face, mesh jacket with armour, and gloves are on order.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Dropped it like it was hot and did an awesome powerslide into some big orange highway type barrels. Slight scuff/scratch on the outer edge of the right mirror, the tip of the right brake lever, the body right were the passenger footpegs are, and the black plastic muffler guard. Amazed there wasn't more scratching/scuffing!

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
None- barely even noticeable unless you're looking for it

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Motorcyle Permit. Been driving 25 years, cars trucks, forklifts, etc.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Not yet- waiting for 2 other friends so my wife and I can all take it together with them.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yep!

10. How fast was the rider going?
20 MPH

11. How far was the rider from home?
Less than 2 miles! Darn! I hate proving the statistics right!

Here's the story-

I was out running some errands and we live about 2 miles from a really big outdoor concert venue- Great Woods/Tweeter Center/Comcast Center depending on how old you are and what the name was at the time. I'm going this coming Sunday with some other folks to see Rush and I wanted to check out the motorcycle parking. It's a real pain to get out after a show, so I was wondering if that would be easier, or if we should walk. The entrance/exit is a big six lane divided road, with a berm with shrubs between the 2 sets of three lanes where the entrance/exit meets the main road. I pulled in, checked the parking and turned around to leave. At the exit where you would stay to the right to exit, there were barrels all across- those big orange highway barrels. They were a good 3-4 feet apart, so I said hey- I can go right between them, stay to the right, and not get hit by someone pulling in, as the barrels seemed to indicated they wanted you to exit through the entrance, although there were no signs or anything to indicate that. As I'm about, oh, 20 ft from the barrels, going maybe 20 MPH, I see there's wire stretched between the barrels- top and bottom. Usually there's some sort of colored tape or cloth hanging from wires, but not this time. I slam on the brakes, not completely locked up, just enough to stop quick, yet retain some control. At that point I realize that I won't stop before I hit, and instantly did the flow chart in my head to determine that kissing pavement is way better than getting cut in half at the torso, so I put it down in a spectacular move that saw me make a conscious decision to jump off the scoot, to the right side, shoulder first, tuck and roll, then we (me and Dan Tropez) slid into the barrels in a brilliant display of Newton's Laws of Motion in action!

Got up, checked the damage- a few scrapes on the plastic, the brake handle, my knee, and my jacket shoulder- helmet never hit. Started the bike, checked that the brakes and the lights worked, and limped home with my head held low.... all the while debating whether or not to tell my wife or keep the secret between me and the asphalt....

-Danny

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:58 pm

madtolive wrote:that must have been hard for your parents to watch.

My dad's reaction: Are you okay?
me: DANGIT!!! yeah I'm fine.
...
dad:

man, THAT WAS AWESOME!

So THAT'S where I get it from

. They both said it looked pretty crazy from behind, and it must have because some lady in a car behind us stopped in the middle of the road to ask if I needed her to call someone! That surprised me... not very many people who would be nice enough to do that.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:37 pm

Glad you are OK . . . everyone.

Wow, I have not been on this thread for a while and I can't believe how many pages it has gotten to.

Hot Jigytty . . . must be careful out there !

mybuddy&me · Post by **mybuddy&me** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:24 pm

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? 150 St Tropez
2. Was the crash due to rider error? Yes. What time of day did it occur? 6:45 AM
3. Could the crash have been avoided? YES!!!
4. Was the rider injured? Just my ego
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? Minimal scratches
6. Cost of repairs, if any? None
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? Permit
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? Taking it August 1-3
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yup
10. How fast was the rider going? 3 MPH
11. How far was the rider from home? 400 ft.

I was turning around after dropping the garbage into the dumpster, there was a little loose gravel put a little to much trottle and BAM down I went.

I only had the scooter for about three weeks.

Moron.
It is nice to have the first scratch out of the way though.

Penguinboy · Post by **Penguinboy** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:10 pm

NOOOOOOOOO!! Two St. Tropezes in the SAME DAY!! Say it's not so!! Hopefully for the both of us, we're done crashing for a while!

-Danny

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:00 pm

i know its not really the business of the dealers, but i do wish they would mention the msf course, or at least have some fliers in the shop about scooter safety...

I was in Tulsa Scooters the other day talking with a woman who was considering buying a scoot and I "highly recommended" she take the MSF. She seemed receptive. It's not difficult to work into the conversation.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:40 am

pugbuddy wrote: I was in Tulsa Scooters the other day talking with a woman who was considering buying a scoot and I "highly recommended" she take the MSF. She seemed receptive. It's not difficult to work into the conversation.

You're spot on. Its not hard to bring it up to potential scooter buyers. I really think the importers and distributors have more to contribute here. Encourage people to take the MSF (maybe pick up a piece of the cost). Promote safety gear (after all, the dealers sell the stuff!). Stop pretending the risk isn't real and meet it head on.

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:10 am

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
'07 125 orange

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
maaaaaybe... i was looking behind my left shoulder to pass a semi exactly when he had to hit the brakes.

1:30PM

3. Could the crash have been avoided? i maintain it was very bad timing. i got a ticket for following too closely, but thats bs. simply, if i had been looking in front of me i would have had plenty of time to stop (as i had been for the past few miles)

4. Was the rider injured? very large bruise below right knee and higher on right thigh. Also banged my left thumb pretty hard.

I was wearing helmet, gloves, summer mesh jacket, t-shirt shirt, jeans and motorcycle over the ankle BOOTS. my gear didnt seem to have much damage.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
front cowels, wheel bumper and hood will definitally need replaced. some little piece got bent onto the right side of the front fork and its felt like the entire steering column was a little more slanted than previously.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
dunno, if the frame did get bent then it won't be pretty.

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
M and reg. license

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? yes

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes

10. How fast was the rider going?
10-20 i think...? MPH

11. How far was the rider from home?
less than 5 Miles

madtolive · Post by **madtolive** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:42 pm

wait, so what exactly happened? did you just smash into the back of the semi??

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:38 pm

madtolive wrote:wait, so what exactly happened? did you just smash into the back of the semi??

yes (hardly just)

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:39 pm

Sorry to hear about this, weaseltamer. As always, glad you're not more seriously injured. And thanks for posting about it here.

I have a request: Everyone, please stop crashing!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:37 pm

Ouch, weasel. Sorry to hear the bad news but glad you weren't more seriously hurt. Hopefully the scoot can be put back together without too much effort/cost.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:42 pm

i maintain it was very bad timing.

I think in general we need to be careful to give plenty of extra room in front whenever we get ready to change lanes in order to avoid a possible crash. Glad you're ok, weaseltamer!

Post by **polianarchy** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:59 pm

Yikes guys! Cut it out with all the crashing!!! *worry worry*

But seriously, I'm glad everyone's "okeh" with a few bruises and dinged up scooters. Hopefully repairs won't be too costly!

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:07 pm

At a member's suggestion, I've altered the 3rd question in the OP so that it now reads:

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?

I know someone will answer the second part with "Not crash, duh." But what would be useful to know is what skill, maneuver, planning, extra awareness, etc. could have aided you in preventing the crash.

Thanks

Groovealufagus · Post by **Groovealufagus** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:48 pm

Ok, my turn on the merry-go-round...

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Black/Silver Rattler 110

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Cager error... 5:15 pm

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Crash... no. One of the injuries, yes. I stopped too hard... hard enough to do about a 60-degree stoppie. Stopped me from running head-on into the SUV's grille, but was enough force to fracture my left thumb and wrist from the stress on the handle bars. Should have spent more time practicing Quick Stops in a parking lot somewhere and plan to spend a few hours on it when I can ride again.

4. Was the rider injured?
The actual fall resulted in a heavily bruised right side... ankle (wore sneekers that day), inner thigh (bike landed with me still straddling it), hip, ribs (bounced off them and felt them flex pretty good, too), and shoulder (bad enough I'm certain it'd be fractured without the armor in my jacket).

The stoppie, though, caused broken bones in my left thumb and wrist.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Landed on me, so a few small, nearly unnoticable cosmetic scratches:
Ball end of the brake lever, back of the mirror, underside of the carriage.
Also broke off part of the exhaust cover, but am waiting on the Prima pipe anyway.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Won't cost a cent.

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Permit

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
No, but registered for one two weeks after my cast removal appointment.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes

10. How fast was the rider going?
20 mph in a left, right-angled turn

11. How far was the rider from home?
1 block

Only parked car on the street I was turning onto pulled from the curb out into the middle of the street to make a left into traffic. Must've checked forward, then in his side mirror, then just pulled out... I had about 6 feet to stop, avoid, or eat his grille. With more Quick Stop practice I might still have gone down on my side (maybe not... it could have been the end result of the stoppie, as well), but probably would have avoided the broken bones in my hand. At least I managed to keep from being hit or damaging the bike. Grateful for my gear... in addition to avoiding road rash, I hit my head off the pavement after bouncing off my shoulder and ribs. Without a helmet, I'm not so sure I'd be typing this for you.

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:53 pm

As I'm reading this thread I'm thinking I'm awful glad both the Genuine dealers in my area actively promote MSF. And there are TWO businesses that offer the MSF courses so even though it might be a hassle with calendars, someone has an open class. I'm thankful there have been no fatalities, but on second thought, if there were, the person involved wouldn't be alive to tell us...

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:47 pm

Sorry to hear about your crash and injuries, Groovealufagus.

I also had a similar crash, where quick braking caused me to do s stoppie and go over the front of the scoot, flipping it up and over. This was my first time out commuting on the Buddy (Vespa was in the shop) and though the crash was not my "fault," having had more practice with quick stops on the Bud may have prevented a lot of pain and damage.

Groovealufagus · Post by **Groovealufagus** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:29 pm

ericalm wrote:Sorry to hear about your crash and injuries, Groovealufagus.

I also had a similar crash, where quick braking caused me to do s stoppie and go over the front of the scoot, flipping it up and over. This was my first time out commuting on the Buddy (Vespa was in the shop) and though the crash was not my "fault," having had more practice with quick stops on the Bud may have prevented a lot of pain and damage.

Thanks. That's what it comes down to... a little practice time on Quick Stops in the church parking lot right next to where the crash happened, the same 1 block from my house, would probably have me scooting around right now instead of being stuck back on the bus... which I bought my scoot to get off of.

At least it was only a somewhat painful and costly lesson... and well learned for sure.

Let this be a painless lesson to anyone who gets a new scoot... even if they own several others. All bikes brake differently.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:43 pm

With more Quick Stop practice I might still have gone down on my side (maybe not... it could have been the end result of the stoppie, as well), but probably would have avoided the broken bones in my hand.

I find it hard to believe your stop could break the bones in your wrist and and hand! I'm not doubting you--but, wow, that's a sudden stop!

It never occured to me that could happen!

Groovealufagus · Post by **Groovealufagus** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:50 pm

pugbuddy wrote:
With more Quick Stop practice I might still have gone down on my side (maybe not... it could have been the end result of the stoppie, as well), but probably would have avoided the broken bones in my hand.
I find it hard to believe your stop could break the bones in your wrist and and hand! I'm not doubting you--but, wow, that's a sudden stop! It never occured to me that could happen!

Believe it. My hand never left the grip/brake handle.

Look at it this way... a proper quick stop should take a count of 'one-thousand-one' with increased pressure on the front brake through the count. My count would have been more like 'On...' The bike, at 20 MPH should take quite a few feet to stop... I stopped in about 3 feet. All the inertia jolted to the front of the bike, hard enough to lift the back end (basically the entire mass of the 200 lb bike and my 155 lb frame) up to a 60-degree angle. That's a lot of sudden force driven forward into a hand that was in an open position around the grip and brake handle. Not a natural position to apply that kind of force to.

I simply lost the battle with Physics.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:28 pm

The general rule is to never grab at the brakes—always squeeze, even when you need to do a sudden stop.

Thing is, this is one of the most difficult learned behaviors. When you're in a difficult situation, your instincts tell you to just stop ASAP and your hands do what they think they should. It's something that comes with experience, practice and becoming more familiar with your scoot and its limitations over time.

Groovealufagus · Post by **Groovealufagus** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:34 pm

All the reason anyone, especially new owners, should take some time out from joy riding occasionally and familiarize themselves with these essential skills. They need to become habits... breaking the 'Reaction' habit by replacing it with the habit of 'taking action'... is the key to more safe and responsible riding.

Wish my wife would have given me that copy of Proficient Motorcycling that I got on Sunday for Father's Day a week earlier. Not that it would have made a difference, but any additional awareness would have gone a long way... including some of the information in this thread.

krysbrezinski · Post by **krysbrezinski** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:00 pm

I had a pretty bad crash a week or so after I first bought my Buddy; I freaked out on a turn and grabbed the front brake.

Buddy Crashed: Seafoam Green Buddy 50
Causes/Time: Definitely rider error; around 5:30pm (I was coming home from work).
Avoidable: Of course.
Rider Injury: Tooth knocked out, one chipped, and one knocked out of alignment; split lip with embedded gravel; torn muscle in arm; general scrapes and bruises (I had to make a trip to the ER, obviously).
Damage to Buddy: minimal; a few scratches to the plastic and an unattractive break in the silver plastic around the headlight.
Cost of Repairs: $0. I've been riding it as-is.
Motorcycle Endorsement: No, just my license. I'm a WA driver, so it's not required. I'm signed up to take the class, though, and get it in a few weeks.
MSF Course: Not yet.
Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes.
Speed at time of crash: 25-30 mph.
Distance from home: About 8 miles.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:15 pm

krysbrezinski wrote: Motorcycle Endorsement: No, just my license. I'm a WA driver, so it's not required. I'm signed up to take the class, though, and get it in a few weeks.

Gosh, sobering story. At least you are on the mend and planning on the MSF. Motorcycle endorsements are required in WA. I presume you are refering to the moped exemption which is arguably (at least in ID) not applicable to the Buddy 50.

WA DMV quote -

To ride a motorcycle on Washington's streets and highways, licensed drivers must obtain a motorcycle endorsement from the Department of Licensing (DOL).

Obtaining a motorcycle endorsement in Washington is a matter of taking the proper training and tests, including written and riding exams. You do not need an appointment for a written test, but you do need one for a riding test.

To obtain a motorcycle endorsement, Washington drivers have two options:

You may complete an approved motorcycle rider course. This allows you to waive the knowledge and skills tests. Bring a Certificate of Completion to a Washington Licensing Services Office within 180 days of passing the course.
If you do not take an approved rider course, you must pass a written test based on the contents of the motorcycle rider's manual. This will allow you to obtain an instruction permit so you can practice for the riding test.

2nd WA DMV quote -

For your bike to be considered a moped, rather than a motorcycle, it must:

Possess wheels that are at least 16 inches in diameter.
Have an engine that is 50 cubic centimeters (cc) or smaller.
Can achieve a maximum speed no higher than 30 mph on level ground.
If your bike exceeds the above mentioned engine size and/or speed the DOL will consider it to be a motorcycle.

ID DMV quote (a bit different but still has the 30 mph max restriction) -

Moped Definition
"Moped" means a limited-speed motor-driven cycle having both motorized and pedal propulsion that is not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed in excess of thirty (30) miles per hour on level ground, whether two (2) or three (3) wheels are in contact with the ground during operation. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement shall not exceed fifty (50) cubic centimeters and the moped shall have a power drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting by the operator after the drive system is engaged.

madtolive · Post by **madtolive** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:16 pm

AAHHHHHHHH!!! knocked out teeth!!!! ahhhhhhh!!!

ahhhhh, krysbrezinski, gravel in your lip! how long ago was this? are you all fixed up now? can you tell us more about what happened?

there is something about teeth injuries that really freaks me out somewhere in my soul. like nails on a chalkboard or a zombie attack.

krysbrezinski · Post by **krysbrezinski** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:35 pm

madtolive wrote:AAHHHHHHHH!!! knocked out teeth!!!! ahhhhhhh!!! ahhhhh, krysbrezinski, gravel in your lip! how long ago was this? are you all fixed up now? can you tell us more about what happened?

Haha, I know--it was super gross, and pretty traumatic, especially since I've got some weird dentist-phobias (hyperventilation, tears, the whole bit). It was my front tooth on the right side that came out, and my left-front tooth was chipped. The one on the other side of the knocked-out tooth got pushed way back, so I couldn't chew food at all. On top of it I'm spending the summer in Idaho (college freshman on an internship), so I couldn't even go crying to my parents to handle it.

Luckily, my landlord came and drove me to the ER, and called his family's dentist (on the weekend, even), who came in and put the tooth back in (which hurts! I wouldn't recommend it). There was a 50/50 chance the nerves would reattach during the next few days, but they didn't, so I had to have a root canal on the replaced tooth. They then used some of that orthodonture wire they use on braces to line my teeth back up properly.

Ugh. It was pretty awful; on the bright side, I got to take a lot of pain pills and antidepressants (for the dentist-anxiety--I know, ridiculous), haha. The crash happened on the last day of May, so pretty recently. I've still got to get the wire taken off and the chipped tooth filled in, and apparently they have to do something else to the root-canal'd tooth a month later.

As far as recovery goes, My lip's all better (with the exception of a piece of gravel I just found still in my healed lip that I'll have to get dealt with), the small cuts on my nose, chin, and forehead (the sunglasses I was wearing under my helmet split and cut me) have all healed with pretty unnoticeable scarring. The only thing that's been slow, as far as recovery, is my arm. I have a lot of trouble lifting it still, which sucks for everyday tasks like microwaving food and washing one's hair.

And I'm back on the Buddy! The crash happened at around 100 miles, and I'm going in for my 500 mile maintenance this Friday. I've been commuting to and from work just like normal, and I'm even going to try riding at night tomorrow. I've picked a different route to work, though--you can't really blame me for not wanting to drive that turn every day, haha.

Groovealufagus · Post by **Groovealufagus** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:47 pm

krysbrezinski wrote: The only thing that's been slow, as far as recovery, is my arm. I have a lot of trouble lifting it still, which sucks for everyday tasks like microwaving food and washing one's hair.

Wow, man, glad to hear you're mending well and back on your ride. If you're still having trouble lifting your arm to put food in the nuker or wash your hair, are you sure it's going to hold up for you on the street if you have to make a quick stop (hard stop... like if a left-turner pulls out in front of you unexpectedly... it happens all the time?)

I had an accident last week, and one of the injuries was some severe bruising of my right shoulder (armor in my jacket saved it from being far worse), along with broken bones in my left hand and wrist. On Saturday I had a show to go to alone, but with my shoulder so weak I couldn't really even lift the tea kettle to pour it out (similar to your nuker and washing issues... I can lift it, but it just gives out under stress). I got in the cage to drive myself, one-armed (can't use the left hand) and the same arm that gave me trouble with the kettle made it tough to even turn the wheel enough to back out of my driveway or turn the first corner safely. I decided really quickly that I was never going to be able to make a safe defensive maneuver with my arm in that condition, rounded the block and went home.

I know you have use of both hands, but if you have to quick stop are you sure your weak arm is not going to give out and cause you to get thrown from your Buddy again?

Just asking because I'd hate to see you post in this thread again so soon.

madtolive · Post by **madtolive** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:53 pm

It was my front tooth on the right side that came out, and my left-front tooth was chipped. The one on the other side of the knocked-out tooth got pushed way back, so I couldn't chew food at all. On top of it I'm spending the summer in Idaho (college freshman on an internship), so I couldn't even go crying to my parents to handle it.

Luckily, my landlord came and drove me to the ER, and called his family's dentist (on the weekend, even), who came in and put the tooth back in (which hurts! I wouldn't recommend it). There was a 50/50 chance the nerves would reattach during the next few days, but they didn't, so I had to have a root canal on the replaced tooth. They then used some of that orthodonture wire they use on braces to line my teeth back up properly.

AHHHHHHH!!!! oh my gooooooosh!!! im very glad i was alone in my office when i read this.

so you WERE wearing a helmet? i'm guessing just a half or 3/4? what made you freak out to make you grab your brake? i'm intrigued.

krysbrezinski · Post by **krysbrezinski** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:32 pm

Groovealufagus wrote:I know you have use of both hands, but if you have to quick stop are you sure your weak arm is not going to give out and cause you to get thrown from your Buddy again?

Just asking because I'd hate to see you post in this thread again so soon.

Thanks for the concern. Actually, I have full use of my lower arm, and the upper arm only gives me trouble if I'm raising my arm straight up (starting at my hip and lifting forward). It's not an issue riding the Buddy.

Modern Buddy

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