Speed tests on five scooters...

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Speed tests on five scooters...

Post by Motorsport Scooters »

I love working at a scooter shop. We took 5 bikes out on Friday and did off the line and top speed tests. Here's the results. I think the buddy did quite well for a 125.

Off the line:
1. Kymco People 150
2. Buddy!!!
3. Vespa LX150
4. Blur 150
5. Kymco Agility 125

Top Speed:
1. Kymco People 150
2. Vespa LX150
3. Buddy!!!
4. Blur 150
5. Kymco Agility 125
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Post by ericalm »

I was rather surprised when a much-heavier-than-I woman blew past me (on my LX150) on my morning commute one day. I was pretty impressed with its zippiness and how well it appeared to handle.

Considering kitting my LX to keep up with the Buddy at lights and stops! :P
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Post by vitaminC »

Interesting that the Buddy beat out the Blur in both categories.

Do you have actual numbers for these tests? And how did you do the measurements?
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Post by gt1000 »

I'm curious...just how much of a difference was there in top speed, from fastest to slowest? 5mph? 10mph? And how were the top speed runs measured?
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Post by sparty »

It sounds scary that the Buddy beats the Blur.....
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Post by Bryce-O-Rama »

I'm not all that surprised either. I'm slighly surprised that the Buddy beat the Blur on acceleration, but it's so much lighter. If you had a handling test, I would be surprised if the Blur wasn't at the top of the heap, with the Buddy nipping at it's rear wheel.
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Post by Motorsport Scooters »

The tests were done with 5 different riders, all in the 160-170lb range, all lined up at a stop light. We also switched riders, and came up with the same results. Top speeds were all within about 3-4mph.
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Post by smorris »

I witnessed the acceleration of the Buddy over the LX150 this weekend, too. At every stop sign or light, bwilms would pull away from me when I was riding next to him. The same with the lady from Elyria.

Eric, I'm kitting my LX too. I've got the kit on the workbench to put in as soon as riding season is done.
Steve - Avon, Ohio
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Post by bwilms »

smorris wrote:I witnessed the acceleration of the Buddy over the LX150 this weekend, too. At every stop sign or light, bwilms would pull away from me when I was riding next to him. The same with the lady from Elyria.
I wasn't even trying. I could have SMOKED you! ;)
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Post by ericalm »

smorris wrote:I witnessed the acceleration of the Buddy over the LX150 this weekend, too. At every stop sign or light, bwilms would pull away from me when I was riding next to him. The same with the lady from Elyria.

Eric, I'm kitting my LX too. I've got the kit on the workbench to put in as soon as riding season is done.
(Sorry to get a little MV over here, but...)
Yup, I just need to figure out which upgrades will give me the most bang for my buck and let me keep my top speed. If you're self-installing, a photo tutorial over on MV would be great! The idea of doing it myself scares the hell out of me. Hell, I'd even pay for something like that. Maybe we should have "Modern[Scooter].com Deluxe" with premium content. Hey, Jess...?

It's a good thing my wife usually rides in front so it looks as if I'm letting her go ahead. :oops:
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Post by dru_ »

Hey, there is something to be said for weight, I ran up into the mountains with my brother Monday afternoon. I got the pleasure of passing of a Goldwing running 2 up and dragging hard parts in the corners (you shoulda seen the sparks) running hard. Of course, my brother left me in the dust, sorry, but a 250cc People isn't going to keep up with a Ducati ST4s anywhere :-)

Pictures of the Scoot and the Duc at the Burnt Mtn Overlook:

here

The doubletakes and grins we got blasting through the mountains was almost too much fun.

Speaking of the Duc, I'm looking for a reasonable price on (eg under $400 shipped) Duc topcase and rack for the ST4s as an xmas present for my brother, any leads welcomed. Best I can find locally is $600.
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Post by peabody99 »

bwilms wrote:
smorris wrote:I witnessed the acceleration of the Buddy over the LX150 this weekend, too. At every stop sign or light, bwilms would pull away from me when I was riding next to him. The same with the lady from Elyria.
I wasn't even trying. I could have SMOKED you! ;)
steve- instead of the kit maybe you should get a buddy ..you can just tell yourself it is for your wife...who by the way would love it.
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Post by ScooterN2 »

I've been riding both the Blur and the Buddy 125 and although I can't run them at the same time. Hands down my Blur is both quicker and faster than the Buddy. Perhaps the Blur that was tested needs adjustment?

But then the Buddy I have been riding has experienced some hesitation so perhaps it needs adjustment.
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Post by Motorsport Scooters »

I have an inclination that the Blur may have been low on tire pressure, but the buddy was definitely faster. I'll do another test just to make sure.
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Post by rajron »

Did you guys re-do this test?
I am curious because the Blur should be quicker than the Buddy, or at least it has about 25% more horsepower and it doesn’t weigh all that much more.
I know the People is quick, my wife can out accelerate me all the time with her People against my Buddy, the People has about 10% less horsepower than the Blur.
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Post by Bryce-O-Rama »

rajron wrote:Did you guys re-do this test?
I am curious because the Blur should be quicker than the Buddy, or at least it has about 25% more horsepower and it doesn’t weigh all that much more.
I know the People is quick, my wife can out accelerate me all the time with her People against my Buddy, the People has about 10% less horsepower than the Blur.
PGO lists the weight of the G-Max (Blur) at 284lb. The Bubu (Buddy) is 222lb. So you're looking at 62lb. The Blur is therefore about 28% heavier than the Buddy.
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Post by Motorsport Scooters »

Don't forget that the US model Blur does NOT have the 4-valve head we were expecting. It's only a two-valve. And the Blur is significantly heavier than both the Buddy and the People 150. I haven't had a chance to retest, but I will soon.
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Post by rajron »

I didn’t realize the USA version had a different motor than the 4V – what does the USA get? – what a rip-off, do you know the power output for the USA version? - it must be the 10.3 horse power unit.
and I see the Blur weighs in more than the Buddy.
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Post by jrsjr »

rajron wrote:I didn’t realize the USA version had a different motor than the 4V....
Just to be clear, as I understand it, it's the same motor, but without the high-tech cylinder head that PGO talk about on their web site. The thing to remember is that there's always a trade-off between horsepower and torque. The PGO site even mentions this explicitly. The simple trade off is that you can get more high-rpm horsepower with a 4-valve head, but you get that performance at the expense of low-rpm torque, which is what makes the vehicle fun and easy to ride in traffic, around town and even accelerating out of turns.

This is the classic conundrum that motorcycle manufacturers have been wrestling with for decades. Kawasaki made a 4-valve 600cc sport bike that was so heavily tilted toward making high-rpm horsepower, that it was difficult to ride in traffic. Moto Guzzi, on the other hand, have been criticized for making 2-valve machines that make great low-end torque but lack high-end horsepower.

With that in mind, consider that the Blur's motor only displaces 150cc's and the Blur weighs 284 pounds dry. With that much weight and such a small motor, the trade-off between torque and horsepower becomes very important. Around town, I would probably opt for the 2-valve head if I had the choice, but I'd want the 4-valve head when I hit the highway, even the 2-lane highways with 55 mph speed limits.

In the motorcycle world, they have a saying, "There's no substitute for cubes," and that was the conclusion I came to with the Blur. It doesn't need an expensive high-tech head. It just needs more cubic inches of displacement so it can make more power and torque.
Last edited by jrsjr on Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rajron »

I know what you mean about the cubic inches/cc’s but its so much fun to see what you can ring out of these little mills.
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Post by AxeYrCat »

Saying from the car tuner world:

Horsepower sells parts; torque wins races. :)
Huh? What just happened?
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Post by Motorsport Scooters »

I am in 100% agreement with you guys on the torque versus horsepower argument. However, my '90 GSXR 750 is faster across the board than my '96 BMW 1100cc sport touring bike, and way more fun to ride in any situation aside from touring, albeit more difficult.
However, I think all this is different when the vehicle has a CVT. Anytime you need power, the bike jumps to a high RPM pretty much instantaneously. So why not tune the heck out of it for high RPM power? It's not like you really need low end grunt unless it's a geared machine.
Anyone?
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Post by vitaminC »

Motorsport Scooters wrote:So why not tune the heck out of it for high RPM power? It's not like you really need low end grunt unless it's a geared machine.
Anyone?
I would guess the 4-valve head is more complicated to manufacture, and definitely more complicated to maintain, both of which increase the costs to the consumer. And if you're just testing the waters of the scooter market, perhaps you find it better to meet a certain price point, then if the market is good, you could always bring the more powerful one over as a sporty "S" model...

Oh, and no fair comparing a GSXR and BMW- that's like apples and avocado's! :wink: About all they have in common is that they're motorcycles...
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Post by Motorsport Scooters »

vitaminC wrote:
Motorsport Scooters wrote:So why not tune the heck out of it for high RPM power? It's not like you really need low end grunt unless it's a geared machine.
Anyone?
I would guess the 4-valve head is more complicated to manufacture, and definitely more complicated to maintain, both of which increase the costs to the consumer. And if you're just testing the waters of the scooter market, perhaps you find it better to meet a certain price point, then if the market is good, you could always bring the more powerful one over as a sporty "S" model...

Oh, and no fair comparing a GSXR and BMW- that's like apples and avocado's! :wink: About all they have in common is that they're motorcycles...
Oh, I agree on both counts. I understand why they did it from a price standpoint. But I would sure rather have the 4-valve high revvin' motor in my blur. I never really agreed with trying to increase low rpm power in an automatic. There is indeed no replacement for displacement, but why not tune the heck out of them for a specific RPM, and make sure the right roller weights are used to get the engine to that RPM whenever the throttle is twisted.
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Post by jrsjr »

Motorsport Scooters wrote:...but why not tune the heck out of them for a specific RPM, and make sure the right roller weights are used to get the engine to that RPM whenever the throttle is twisted.
My guess is the reason why is that your assumption...
Motorsport Scooters wrote:Anytime you need power, the bike jumps to a high RPM pretty much instantaneously. So why not tune the heck out of it for high RPM power? It's not like you really need low end grunt unless it's a geared machine.
is not exactly 100% correct. What I've noticed is that the RPM jumps pretty much instantaneously to whatever point the rollers spin out and the vehicle's inertia overcomes the motor's torque (ie the vehicle weighs something so it doesn't leap forward instantly). After that, as you continue to accelerate, the motor RPM vs. vehicle speed curve is more linear, which is to say, you twist the grip and you go faster again but with acceleration still being limited by the ability of the motor's torque to overcome the vehicle's inertia. My point is that the motor still operates in the torque curve, though not in the low-rpm range in the way that a clutch-operated motorcycle motor does.
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Post by dwnthehatch »

I test drove both an Agility 125 and a Buddy 125 yesterday. Both my friend and I weight 155 lbs. I'm 5'11, he's 6'. On our tests the Agility outperformed the Buddy off the line and in top speed. Both had under 10 miles on them. We switched back and forth several times and the Agility won every time. The Agility seemed to pull harder uphill also. Now I'm torn. The Agility is definately different looking, is $500 less, and has better performance. I have 2 other kymcos (people 50 and cobra 50) and have never had a single problem. I just like the looks of the buddy more.
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Post by Motorsport Scooters »

Did you check tire pressure on them? Unfortunately, dealers often overlook that or don't keep up on it when the bikes sit on the showroom floor.
Good to know. Anyone else should post speed results here.
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Post by Keys »

Talked to my friends at Scoot Over in Tucson. They sell both the Genuine and Kymco lines. According to them, the Buddy is faster and will out accelerate the Agility every time. They were, however, pleased with the handling of the 13" wheels on the Agility. Power, though, according to them, is not on a par with the Buddy.

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Post by Fullserve »

Keys wrote:Talked to my friends at Scoot Over in Tucson. They sell both the Genuine and Kymco lines. According to them, the Buddy is faster and will out accelerate the Agility every time. They were, however, pleased with the handling of the 13" wheels on the Agility. Power, though, according to them, is not on a par with the Buddy.

--Keys 8)
I have to chime in because I've ridden both and ended up buying the Agility. I've indicated elsewhere on the board that I think that both scooters are appropriately priced -- the Buddy is just a whole lot nicer looking and far "cooler", while the Agility is a fantastic value.

My guess is that it's difficult to judge a brand new scooter based on test rides at a dealer. I rode both the Agility and Buddy 3 times (at Motorsports, thanks Max!) and thought that that particular Agility was quicker off the line than the particular Buddy that I rode. I was actually quite surprised and it was significant in my decision to purchase the Agility. The test by the guys at Motorsports obviously disputes my findings.

I have had my Agility now for a couple of weeks and put 350kms on it. I have a very long and steep hill (Torrey Pines Road, for those familiar with San Diego) on my route to work and the first time I took the hill, I was quite disappointed because my Agility bogged down to about 48mph on the hill.

Since then, however, I have taken the hill three more times and have gotten faster each time -- now up to 52mph this morning -- quite respectible considering the length and elevation gain on the hill.

My point is that I would guess that these scooters vary quite a bit before the break in period. The Buddy I rode was doggish off of the line, but EVERYTHING that I read on the scooter indicates that it's a very fast 125, and I'm sure that it is. A better test would be to put two scooters with 500km against each other. This is not practicle at a dealer, of course, but ultimately it would provide a better result, IMHO.
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