Anyone felt this way?....

[wolfpackscooter]

So, after much debating I finally bought my first scooter last week. I ended up with a Stella instead of a Buddy - love them both, long story. Funny thing is, I spent so much time debating which bike to get that I didn't think much about how I'd feel about actually riding, safety-wise, a scooter. Don't get me wrong - I did my research. However, I was more preoccupied with the merits of each bike than anything else (And though I got the Stella, I still really like this Buddy forum!!) - other than that I loved, and still do, the idea of scooting to work and around town rather than taking the car.

Anywho, fast forward a week, and here I am still waiting for delivery of the new Stella. Problem is now that, after all of the reading I've done, I'm suddenly convinced that this is insane! I have small kids at home and I'm reading all of these threads about wrecks, safety issues, idiot cagers, etc., etc., etc. Starting to feel like an irresponsible dipshit, as I have visions of constantly having to swerve around morons and maintain such high alert that it will take the fun out of riding.

Maybe this is just a function of the anticipation of actually getting the scoot (it's been a week now, and I still have longer to wait)? My hope is that as I get comfortable riding it, much of this aprehension will disappear. But I'm curious if others have felt the same way? Right now it's bumming me out because it's taking the fun and excitement out of waiting to get started.
Thoughts?

p.s. I have all safety gear (FF helmet, aromored jackets, etc. and have signed up for the MSF course), and I get the deal about minimizing some of the risk....just askin in general.

[kazoo]

You sound like a normal responsible person. Good luck at what ever you decide.

Kaz

[DennisD]

You sound like a normal soon to be new rider. You'll do fine. Wear your gear, take the MSF course, get your license, take your time, ride slow and practice in an area you are comfortable with. Its a learning process everyone has gone through. You are NORMAL. You might decide to not do this thing. That's ok too. It might not be your time to ride - yet.
You'll decide what's right for you. And you'll still be normal.

[r0sa]

just be safe by keeping in mind that no matter what situation you are in, the car > you & your scooter. I've gotten into a pretty bad accident myself, but after a week or two off of my scoot, i wanted to get back on and start riding again since i missed it so much. This time i am a lot more cautious but not to the point where i am putting myself in danger.

My boyfriend has a motorcycle and he rides pretty aggressively but knows when to chill on the throttle when he needs to. TAKE THE MSF CLASS

[MikieTaps]

If you do decide that it isnt for you.. I am on the hunt for a great deal on a Stella...

J/K You will feel much better once you actually get on it and ride it in traffic... You arent totally invisible, but in your head you need to think you are, but in reality more people die in car crashes than scooter or mc crashes...

[Quo Vadimus]

paying careful attention (yep, even more than when you're driving) and having crazy fun are not mutually exclusive.

I find the exercise to be quite meditative. Which is SO worth it. It's not being pissed off at traffic for half an hour before and after work. Showing up angry, getting home angry. Going to work isn't getting there, it's riding there. It might take a little longer, but the quality of that time is increased by a much greater amount. Even when 'some idiot cager' does something scary like you read about here on the forum, it's a lot easier to choose to stop worrying about it so you can execute your next turn rather than continue worrying about it.

That being said, I realized today on my way home that I'm literally covered, head-to-toe, in gear. I'm an 800-mile newb on a 50cc. I tried riding in jeans, but was constantly thinking about how much I like my knees. I don't mind if people think I'm a nerd (mostly), a noob (yep), or overly obsessive about wearing too much gear - I'm in my own little world, and all I hear in here is the gentle purr... well, you get the idea.

[jmazza]

I had the same moment. It wasn't while waiting on delivery, but before every buying.

I had done so much reading on this board that I said what you are saying "this is nuts... I have a kid... etc." I told my wife confidently, "Well, I'm definitely not getting a scooter."

It passed.

I kept looking at scooters and eventually bought one. That moment of questioning has just made me a safer rider.

[BuddyRaton]

We do have alot of new riders on MB and unfortunatly new riders are the most likley to have "problems" Also don't forget that you are going to hear alot more bad news than good news! Not many people rush home to log on and say "I rode to work...I rode home...nothing happened..."

Get some training, gear up, start out easy and have fun!

[armacham]

I had a touch of apprehension between getting my scooter and riding it for the first time. I got over it pretty quickly, it's just way too fun. The important thing is that youare aware of ll the dangers and become a safer rider because of it.

[peabody99]

Ok. Sooo many people have pulled the kid card with me as why they do not ride. Do you think the rest of the world does this? NO. It is brainwashing. Even though I do not have lol ones, I would be missed if I was gone (I work in Human service and bust my arse for my people).

If I had spawned, I would still ride. Since you did all the right things (you took the safety course, right?) might you actually give the little ones a better planet AND attitude about life? As long as you are sensibly safe, there is a beauty about siezing the day that cannot happen in a minivan.

[scootermama]

It all sounds pretty normal to me, and a sign of healthy fear, the kind that will make you wear protective clothing, take the MSF course, etc.

I bought my scooter and spent a couple of weeks being terrified that I had made a huge mistake, was going to kill myself, I'm a mother, this is irresponsible, etc. etc. Then, in the 3rd week something kicked in....it was love, it was bliss, it was all about my scooter! It's like having a new baby, I just adore everything about it, even the "interesting" road situations. Just stay alert yet relaxed and practice a lot.

The Stellas are gorgeous! Enjoy!

[twoscoots]

We have four- and two- year olds and we ride. I'm just super-duper careful. You read about parents being injured or killed in car wrecks all the time so it's not as if being in a car leaves you immune to damage. MSF, safety gear, hypervigilance, etc. etc. Have fun!

[jmazza]

Ok. Sooo many people have pulled the kid card with me as why they do not ride. Do you think the rest of the world does this? NO. It is brainwashing. Even though I do not have lol ones, I would be missed if I was gone (I work in Human service and bust my arse for my people).

I don't think people say that because we think we'll be missed more... it has more to do with if I do something needlessly stupid and get myself killed suddenly my kid doesn't have one of his parents nor his main source of financial support (and yes, I have a nice insurance policy but still...).

It's not brainwashing, I promise. It's just the first thing many parents think of in these situations.

[jmazza]

Not many people rush home to log on and say "I rode to work...I rode home...nothing happened..."

now they do...

[n00b4life]

I felt that way when I got my first motorcycle. Not so much with the scooter, but I had already logged (I'm guessing) 100,000 miles on various motorcycles and taken the MSF course.

I also felt the same way when I drove a car in traffic for the first time.

What I've found is that looking where I want to go, finding the most visible spot on the road, watching what everyone else is doing and evaluating what I would do if someone did something stupid, all become second nature as you spend more time on the road. At first, it can seem overwhelming, but if you form good habits early, they'll stick with you and you'll find yourself feeling pretty relaxed on the bike; more so than in a car (in my experience).

[Xena]

I find just relax and use your "rider radar" and be aware ALL the time. There are no moments to not be scanning the road and looking for idiots who have no respect.

[anndelise]

wolfpackscooter, i've felt that way...still do at times
I'm a single mother of one, she's 12yo now, I certainly would have been too paranoid if she was much younger, but that's just me. I do worry about what would happen to her if something happens to me. I've been making notes and eventually I'll be writing up a set of instructions of what to do if I'm injured...and what to do if I die. Who to contact, etc. I've also been working on decluttering my home which is something I've been meaning to do for years, but now I have a bit more incentive. I'd like to have fewer items that would need to be dished out if something were to happen. Some people might call this overkill. But in many ways, it's a lot like ATGATT. They say "wear what you want to crash in", well, this is similar, I just don't have a cute saying for it...yet.

I get more stressed out about it when I think in terms of 'this scooter is my only mode of transportation and I HAVE to use it for appointments or shopping or or or'. But when I think in terms of 'this scooter is for my own personal recreation, for my ME time', then the previous intense stress lessens drastically until it's only one possibility in the back of my mind.

I had originally considered getting rid of my van and using the scooter as my primary means of transportation. But that caused a lot of stress. Now we will be getting the van's windshield fixed so that it can continue to be used, and that alone removes a lot of stress off my mind. Now I can enjoy riding my scooter, enjoy practicing my drills, and not feel pressured that I'm going to HAVE to ride beyond my skill/comfort level.

As for my daughter, I know that if she had to go live with her father, she'd still have a good life. She might miss me. But I figure if I was doing something I enjoyed, then maybe she'd see the value of joy in life. And if I'm as responsible as I can be about it, then I figure that sets a good lesson to. (yeah, i guess it could backfire, but i don't think so with my daughter). She knows that I gave up a lot for her, that I miss out on a lot of life. She knows from my experience not to have a child too young, and that one should pursuit opportunities when they present themselves. She knows that I'm happy about my new hobby, and that because of it I'm more motivated to get some other things in our lives done. She knows that it's risky, she thinks I'm silly, she doesn't really want anything to do with it, heh..but she tells me "go play" when I'm feeling stressed. She also sees me working on losing weight (the bigger they are, the harder they fall...so it's finally time to minimize the impact).

About the only thing she has issues with regarding my having the scooter, is that the money i'm using to pay back my brother...is money that's not being used on her own interests.

[scoots4me]

I was for real nervous and sometimes am still a little...but only been riding about a month and a half. The good news is that I am more comfortable with each ride I take and less nervous. I still yearn to be the super good, nothing bothers me scooterist but for now I think a few nerves are keeping me in line regarding not getting cocky. The accident threads are important to read but not ALWAYS. Take some breaks and just read about the fun stuff so you have a good mix of exposure. You'll get better with each week that passes. Like I said, I'm still nervous sometimes but I'm also having a ton of fun!!! Welcome aboard and have no fear, if you decide you just don't like scootering you'll totally be able to sell for a good price. I hope you stay though.

[chokepuppy]

I'll probably piss someone off but I gotta tell ya, I don't consider this much more dangerous than riding a bicycle. The handling is different but rarely do I take this buddy over 40 mph. Just because in town I don't have to. I've been on racebikes over 190 and comuted 100miles round trip from the far west side of the city right through it on 4 different freeways through floods hail storms you name it. Hundreds of thousands of miles in the saddle since 1970. (I was seven) What people freak on as close calls are just riding. It becomes second nature. The scooter is so much fun that I hate to see people selling them or just being so afraid. Live a little. I have an X gene so I cant live without this stuff. But if my pop can start riding at seventy two on a 1500 cc victory. You guys can do this! Don't let all this scare you. Just do like my Pop (now 78 ) take the msc. Read "Twist of the wrist II" its a book for road racers but priceless information about physics of bike, and riding and PRACTICE your skills braking. A monkey can take a bike to 200mph but it takes skill to stop it.

Scooting IS A BLAST DONT MISS OUT!!

[MPA]

Let me start off by saying that when I was 23 ('96) I fell in love w/ Motorcycles. Unfortunately I scared the crap out of myself reading stories, seeing pictures etc. I let the fear get the best of me and never looked into getting a bike even though I had subs to like 4 bike mags and would read 1 or 2 the Euro mags as well (Performance Bikes, etc).

10 years later I have a GF who tells me "You can't get a bike" and of course we break up and her next bf has a bike and she tells me how she loves riding on it (bitch lol) so I say screw it, sell my Mustang and buy a bike, take MSF. Fun ensued.

I only have about 4400 miles of street experience now after 3 years due to a few personal issues, but there have only been a handful of times where I thought "Oh no" - usually going into a turn and getting spooked to where I think I'm going to crash, but I am 99% those issues were due to me not trusting the bikes enough to lean them over more as I was maybe riding at 6 or 7/10ths. As far as issues w/ cars, except for one or 2 idiots who would tail gate I haven't had any altercations.

[wolfpackscooter]

Wow - you guys are great....I love you man (sniff sniff).

Thanks, though. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. It's easy to get the sense that becoming a tangled mass of road pizza is inevitable when reading some of this.....nice to get 'fun' perspective too. All this anticipation is killing me! They need to hurry up and get finished so that I can start riding.

Cheers....

[kazoo]

Yeah, sure Mr. jmazza, just one look at your avatar and I think of brainwashing. What model brainwashing machine is that dial off of?

It's not brainwashing, I promise. It's just the first thing many parents think of in these situations.

[UXO]

Okay, okay, its far from being scooter related, but its about fear, deserved or not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/magaz ... ted=8&_r=1

"At end of the day that I visited Dodman, we sat watching video clips of dogs repetitively pacing, chasing shadows and snapping at nonexistent flies. Dodman, leaning back in his chair, launched into a story about a human obsessive-compulsive-disorder sufferer he had met — a man who repeatedly tugged at his beard. Dodman asked him if he had ever stopped, and the man said he did during a hitchhiking trip across Canada. Dodman thought he knew why: “He went back to being a human being. He was watching out for real dangers. He was trying to go to real places. He was concerned about his next meal. He was thinking about where he was going to sleep. And he wasn’t concerned about the stupid beard pulling, because now he had a real life. When did the problem start again? The minute he sat back in front of a flickering computer screen.”

[KCScooterDude]

I was so excited to buy my first scooter. I had taken one on a test drive and had researched and drooled over a scooter for about a year before I bought one. I got a cheap scooter to learn on, and quickly upgraded. I wanted a Buddy bad, but ended up buying a Blur, but that's another story.

Anyway, I got my lerner's permit and headed over to pick up my first scooter. My friend rode back to my house with me and all of a sudden I was in traffic on a fairly busy road. I was terrified at first and questioned my decision.

Soon, though, I begain riding on back streets near my home. Every day I'd add a short stint down a busy road. On the day I test drove the Blur, I rode it down the busiest street in our area without even thinking about it.

When you begin riding, you'll have a lot of firsts. First bridge. First time over 50 MPH, etc. Until you do it a few times you won't be comfortable. But then it will become second-hand nature.

I still have moments when I freak out a bit. I ride with motorcycle buddies and when we were out riding in the country doing a long stint at over 55, I freaked out bad one day. I recovered and got home, but I parked the scoot for a few days.

After a few days, though I began to miss riding. Soon I was back on the horse.

The point is, it can be a bit scary learning to ride, but it's like that with anything in life. That's also part of the excitement of riding, and why it's so rewarding. It's also good to be a bit on edge because it keeps you alert and on your toes.

And yes, everyone you talk to will tell you a story about somebody who got hurt riding. It's usually a friend of a friend, though, so take it for what it's worth. I also know people who were injured driving their SUV. If you want to choose the safest for of transport, take up flying. By the way, everyone knows somebody who got hurt flying. See a pattern, here.

Statistics show riding a scooter is about as safe as riding a bicycle. This is largely because engine displacement and injury are generally corelated. Google the Hurt Report and you'll see a lot of interesting statistics about riding on two wheels.

Anyway, be safe and remember that the MSF is a good idea (I'm scheduled for later this year) and do the things that keep you safe - watching out for yourself, wearing the right gear, etc. As you become more experienced, you'll become safer.

[BigColdMartini]

I'll probably piss someone off but I gotta tell ya, I don't consider this much more dangerous than riding a bicycle.

I'm not pissed. I actually feel safer on my scooter than on my bicycle. On the scooter I'm in the middle of the road and not riding a tight rope on the very edge. Plus I'm going faster along with the traffic, I have a loud horn and I think people see me better and aren't as hostile as they are to bicycles.

[Eddy Merckx]

The world is not nearly as dangerous as many want you to believe.

Just be sensible about you're riding habits and you will be fine, remember good decision making is the key to staying upright, and out of harms way.

So go out and enjoy your new scoot !!

[charltons]

Think about this: there are many MC and scooter riders who never have had an accident.

Something like 50% of MC accidents are alcohol related. Don't drink and ride
The majority of people in MC accidents are young- think early twenties and full of testosterone. You have kids so I assume you are more responsible. Sounds like it to me.

People who take the MSF course are statistically less likely to get into an accident in the first 6 months. Take the course.

Speed significantly reduces your time to react. Don't speed.

There are a lot of things you can do to reduce risk to an acceptable level. You do what you can and don't worry too much.

I look at it this way. My sister in law was killed by a drunk driver. She did everything right- seat belt, speed limit, careful driving. She could not forsee or prevent this tragedy. If we spend too much time thinking "what if..." , where would the joy be in life? Of course, some things are just plain foolish. We all evalute what risks we are willing to take, and try to mitigate them through training, equipment, etc.

I have two children as well, and I don't feel irresponsible at all. I'm just careful. Go out and enjoy yourself. If you don't like it, well, at least you tried. If you're like me, you'll find it quite addivting.

[DennisD]

"Hey mom, I'm thinkin' about buying a scooter!"



"Ohhhh nooooo you're NOT! You'll get KILLED! People are just WAITING to SQUASH YOU!!!!"

Gee, according to many moms, population control would be no problem if everyone rode scooters. We might even have to worry about DEpopulation.


LOOK OUT, THERE'S ONE HIDING OVER THERE, JUST WAITING FOR YOU!


"You'll shoot your eye out, kid!"

[hackett]

According to my dad, my mom expects me to be covered in tattoos within six months of my scooter purchase.

[DennisD]

According to my dad, my mom expects me to be covered in tattoos within six months of my scooter purchase.

Not anymore. Today you're a rebel if you don't have any piercings or tattoos.

"EEUUWW, look at the freak with the plain skin!"

[NathanielSalzman]

I felt that way yesterday, and in a big way. I rode past the scene of what looked like a pretty nasty motorcycle accident. The bike was in about a hundred pieces and the side of the Jeep it hit was impressively smashed. The thing is, I think the rider actually walked away. I'm hoping they laid the bike down and slid away before the impact. It was sobering, and I honestly really seriously contemplated the wisdom of riding 'round on two wheels. Of course then I had to snap out of it and get back to the actual business of riding. I'm over it now. But I did all the reading last year that you're talking about here. All the crash threads, the Hurt report, so forth. I still bought a scooter.

I bought my first scooter off of Craigslist - a 1979 Vespa P200E. I'd never ridden a powered 2-wheeler before and only just barely test rode the Vespa. I just knew I wanted a scooter. I'd obsessed over it for months beforehand. I wanted a Buddy something awful, but didn't have the cash. Thought about the Blur, but it was even more expensive. So I went truly retro.

I remember the first time I really rode the thing - the first time I ventured out onto my neighborhood streets to ride the mile to the office. It was so scary and just so much fun. In retrospect, I think that about 85% of the fear in riding comes from inexperience. If you don't know what the scooter is capable of, what its limits are, and how to handle it, then the machine itself becomes this big variable you don't quite know how to solve for when riding. But as you get used to the bike, and as you get more experience and/or training, that big fear of the unknown fades away very quickly. And what you're left with is a very healthy respect for the dangers of riding in traffic, but even that starts to get really fun. The urban roadscape becomes this living puzzle you've got to navigate. And on a scooter, you're at a tremendous advantage to navigate it in a really fun way.

When my parents deduced I'd bought the Vespa, I got a really nasty email from my dad basically saying "Well, I hope you never end up in a wheel chair" as though he could scare me out of it somehow. But the biggest thing I've come to realize is that risk is relative and everywhere. People die every day falling down in the bathtub. People get struck by lightning. People die changing light bulbs. Steve McQueen, who drove everything like he stole it, died of lung cancer. Sure, the reality is that if you are involved in an accident on your scooter, there's a good chance for some level of injury. But what people often ignore is that actual likelihood that you're going to be in that situation. They deem a motorcycle or scooter unsafe because it doesn't have seat belts or air bags, but don't ever look at the actual likelihood that you'll be in a crash in the first place. If this "logic" actually applied, nobody would ever fly - because pretty much nobody ever walks away from a plane crash. But we do fly. Why? Because plane crashes are really, really rare. Likewise a scooter crash can be pretty bad, but it's false to assume that because you're on a scooter that you will crash.

And as for reading the crash threads and especially the Hurt report, so much of it is in how you look at it. If you read the "who's crashed" thread here on MB, you'll see that there aren't any posts in there about how "the cager pulled out in front of me and now I don't have my left arm" or anything like that. It's mostly stories of hitting sand or oil, or other avoidable situations. The bad stuff still happens, but seriously, if scooters were death traps, nobody would ride them. If planes crashed every other day, nobody would fly. So it's really worth recognizing that accidents are the exception, not the rule. The majority of even dumb ass crotch rocket boys who don't wear helmets and ride like idiots will live long enough to see their grandkids buy flying motorcycles. If you take riding as seriously as it sounds like you will, then you should be fine. The majority of fatal accidents happen in the first five months of riding - which totally makes sense. That's when you have the least idea what you're doing.

You sound perfectly sensible. Let that guide you, take things slow, and I'd wager good money that the first 10 minutes of riding that Stella in a parking lot somewhere will do your soul well.

[polianarchy]

According to my dad, my mom expects me to be covered in tattoos within six months of my scooter purchase.

Well, dammit, why wouldn't you?!

[DennisD]

Not anymore. Today you're a rebel if you don't have any piercings or tattoos.

"EEUUWW, look at the freak with the plain skin!"

According to my dad, my mom expects me to be covered in tattoos within six months of my scooter purchase.

Well, dammit, why wouldn't you?!

Told ya so.

[jmazza]

Yeah, sure Mr. jmazza, just one look at your avatar and I think of brainwashing. What model brainwashing machine is that dial off of?

It's not brainwashing, I promise. It's just the first thing many parents think of in these situations.

You don't see a brainwashing dial.

There is no brainwashing machine.

You don't see a brainwashing dial.

There is no brainwashing machine.

You don't see a brainwashing dial.

There is no brainwashing machine.

You don't see a brainwashing dial.

There is no brainwashing machine.

You don't see a brainwashing dial.

There is no brainwashing machine.

You don't see a brainwashing dial.

There is no brainwashing machine.

[n00b4life]

The bike was in about a hundred pieces and the side of the Jeep it hit was impressively smashed.

Huh.

I wonder how fast one would have to go to explode their bike into 100 pieces and cave in the side of a Jeep on impact.

I wonder how much chance the Jeep driver had to see the motorcycle at that speed. I wonder how much time the motorcycle driver had to Search, Evaluate and Execute at those speeds.

I'm picturing an intersection in town, where I have seen something similar, but perhaps this happened on the open highway and the speeds were reasonable.

[bunny]

I have this belief about fear. It will do one of two things: freeze you in place or motivate you out of that place.

I like to think I am motivated to live through my fears. And another thing: This too shall pass, it's the getting through it part that sucks.

[NathanielSalzman]

The bike was in about a hundred pieces and the side of the Jeep it hit was impressively smashed.

Huh.

I wonder how fast one would have to go to explode their bike into 100 pieces and cave in the side of a Jeep on impact.

I wonder how much chance the Jeep driver had to see the motorcycle at that speed. I wonder how much time the motorcycle driver had to Search, Evaluate and Execute at those speeds.

I'm picturing an intersection in town, where I have seen something similar, but perhaps this happened on the open highway and the speeds were reasonable.

I've got more info now.

http://tinyurl.com/6c6z35

Another news source is saying one dead, but the biggest thing is that neither riders were wearing helmets. As for how you put a Harley into a hundred pieces - they're not meant to crash, period. They're not designed to take, redistribute, or survive impacts. They're just designed to go. The other part is that this one had fairings and other stuff on the front of it. That was a big part of the carnage. I'd be very curious to know the condition of the second motorcyclist involved. That anyone would survive such a thing sans helmet is beyond me.

[n00b4life]

That sucks. It is not like the intersection I saw at all. I can see where they would reasonably be moving fast enough to cause some serious damage. At least down here, that looks like a 45-55 mph road, at least.

Still, part of me screams "this could have been avoided!"

I guess I'm quick to judge because I know too many people who were in completely preventable accidents due to their own carelessness and sense of invincibility. That's what happens when a bunch of high school kids (years and years ago) get crotch rockets and spend the summer partying and hot-rodding around.

I was lucky that the worst I got was a $755 speeding ticket and my license revoked.

I need to get back to live and let live...

[jfrost2]

This is like when someone is getting married, 5 minutes before the wedding, the bride is thinking "Am I making a mistake, will I love him when he is old and wrinkly, etc"

Theres more good then bad, you dont crash everyday, if properly educated, and built up experience, you will be safe out there. I recommend taking the MSF, it's a great class that teaches you EVERYTHING about safety on the road on 2 wheels.

Good luck with your wait, and when you get the bike, keep it safe in your neighborhood roads for the first hundred miles or so, learn to lean, stop, and go properly before you head out onto the open roads right away.

[KCScooterDude]

The bike was in about a hundred pieces and the side of the Jeep it hit was impressively smashed.

Huh.

I wonder how fast one would have to go to explode their bike into 100 pieces and cave in the side of a Jeep on impact.

I wonder how much chance the Jeep driver had to see the motorcycle at that speed. I wonder how much time the motorcycle driver had to Search, Evaluate and Execute at those speeds.

I'm picturing an intersection in town, where I have seen something similar, but perhaps this happened on the open highway and the speeds were reasonable.

I've got more info now.

http://tinyurl.com/6c6z35

Another news source is saying one dead, but the biggest thing is that neither riders were wearing helmets. As for how you put a Harley into a hundred pieces - they're not meant to crash, period. They're not designed to take, redistribute, or survive impacts. They're just designed to go. The other part is that this one had fairings and other stuff on the front of it. That was a big part of the carnage. I'd be very curious to know the condition of the second motorcyclist involved. That anyone would survive such a thing sans helmet is beyond me.

This is really selfish, but I read the story and all I can think is: Damn I miss LeeAnn Chin's. Isn't there one right there on the west side of the street, just south of 494?

I live in Kansas City and get to the Twin Cities about once a year. LeeAnn Chin's tried to expand to other cities and had several Kansas City locations before pulling out after about a year.

Well, how's that for off topic for you.

[NathanielSalzman]

This is really selfish, but I read the story and all I can think is: Damn I miss LeeAnn Chin's. Isn't there one right there on the west side of the street, just south of 494?

I live in Kansas City and get to the Twin Cities about once a year. LeeAnn Chin's tried to expand to other cities and had several Kansas City locations before pulling out after about a year.

Well, how's that for off topic for you.

That is impressively off topic, I'll give it to ya. I have never actually eaten there. I've lived here a little over a year. My favorite chinese place in EP is House of Kai where Baker meets Valley View Rd. Next time you're in the Twin Cities, drop me a line.

[sunshinen]

Statistically speaking, the percentage of Americans who die of heart disease each year is much higher than the percentage of licensed motorcyclists who die in a crash each year.

So that pizza habit... much more dangerous than your scooter habit.

[KCScooterDude]

This is really selfish, but I read the story and all I can think is: Damn I miss LeeAnn Chin's. Isn't there one right there on the west side of the street, just south of 494?

I live in Kansas City and get to the Twin Cities about once a year. LeeAnn Chin's tried to expand to other cities and had several Kansas City locations before pulling out after about a year.

Well, how's that for off topic for you.

That is impressively off topic, I'll give it to ya. I have never actually eaten there. I've lived here a little over a year. My favorite chinese place in EP is House of Kai where Baker meets Valley View Rd. Next time you're in the Twin Cities, drop me a line.

I'll have to try that one. When I'm in town, I'm usually down in the Shakapee area, so Eden Prairie pretty close. I want to bring my scoot up next time I come. I dream about riding around Lake Calhoun and Lake of th Isles in August, when it's in the 80s there and 100 here.

[wolfpackscooter]

All great posts. I've been enjoying riding so far, but have stayed on mostly quiet neighborhood streets at 25-30mph. Tons of confidence there. However, the few times I've pushed it to 35-40, it starts feeling a little crazier....little more wobbly, little more like I'm about to be a squished bug on someone's windshield......

Add traffic into the mix, which I haven't done yet, and it sounds a little hairy. Assuming this will go away through time. Sure hope it does soon - can't ride to work otherwise!

[MikieTaps]

i feel more stable at higher speeds... up until about 60 or so... then i can really notice the small wheels and short light frame...

[bunny]

All great posts. I've been enjoying riding so far, but have stayed on mostly quiet neighborhood streets at 25-30mph. Tons of confidence there. However, the few times I've pushed it to 35-40, it starts feeling a little crazier....little more wobbly, little more like I'm about to be a squished bug on someone's windshield......

Add traffic into the mix, which I haven't done yet, and it sounds a little hairy. Assuming this will go away through time. Sure hope it does soon - can't ride to work otherwise!

Keep your eyes focused on the horizon helps me with the wobblies. I'm no Weeble, so I will fall down...

Deep breaths, relax your elbows...and listen to how your scooter sounds to you.

[anndelise]

All great posts. I've been enjoying riding so far, but have stayed on mostly quiet neighborhood streets at 25-30mph. Tons of confidence there. However, the few times I've pushed it to 35-40, it starts feeling a little crazier....little more wobbly, little more like I'm about to be a squished bug on someone's windshield......

Add traffic into the mix, which I haven't done yet, and it sounds a little hairy. Assuming this will go away through time. Sure hope it does soon - can't ride to work otherwise!

in order to leave my little neighborhood, i HAVE to go on a 50mph road.
when i first ventured out on it, i had only been doing 15-20mph previously, and suddenly i had to up that to 40-50mph. scary.

So first I did short bursts..from one entrance to the other entrance, right hand turns the whole way. The first time i got up as fast as a whole 35mph, and thought that that was way too fast for me. But then, a few days later, I HAD to ride that road, no avoiding it. I had someone driving his car behind me, he helped me feel more comfortable that noone's going to run over me, and noone'll get too close to me.

The first section, I pulled over at the first light, to recover from the 5 miles of harrowing feeling...and asked what my speed had been. He said i'd been doing about 35. 35??? my speed had said i was doing around 40ish. That meant I was going to have to go faster on this other road (for 15 miles).

So I had to up my speed. AND I learned about crosswinds and what it feels like when there are suddenly no trees blocking the winds from you and they hit you on the sides suddenly...and I learned to be stubborn and hang on and push through like a bullet through those backwash winds from semi's going in the opposite direction. The kind of winds that you can feel your scoot actually lifting off the ground a bit and you know you don't want to brake or swerve in the least or you'll lose any traction when you come down.

The whole thing reminded me of when I first began overcming my fear of putting my head under water....when I'd be stubborn and psyche myself out and just do it, nothing stopping me. And it reminded me of how my kitten gets that stubborn, that no matter how many times you say no or push her away, she just sets her body a certain way and just keeps going where she wants to go, nothing's gonna stop her. And it made me think of bugs...large beetles...who just keep going even when the winds are tossing them about and they have to worry about birds and such....and they just keep aiming toward their goal, come hell or high water.

Anyways, when we finally got where I had to take the scoot to, I asked how fast I'd been doing then. He said about 40-45. Ugh.

So on the way back I had to push even faster to keep up with the traffic. By this time I had a decent idea of how the road felt different after going over 40 actual mph, and i had a decent idea of what to expect when i saw a semi or large truck heading my way. And when I pulled over at that light again, he said my speed had been 50ish. Whew.

And finally that last 5 miles to home...seemed so damned easy now, lol. No semi's to worry about, a few curves but can slow down before getting to them, less traffic both directions. Not nearly as scary as it had seemed before.

I'm still not comfortable on that 5 mile stretch, but i've now been on it about 6 times now. Each time gets easier. And each time I'm glad it's not like that 15 mile stretch I had been on earlier.

But now, since my crash, when i get to speeds over 35/40ish, i can feel the scoot sliding, it feels lighter and less stable (no wobbling, just sliding feeling). I'm not sure if it's cuz there's some issue going on with the bike, or if i'm just now even more sensitive to the changes. I'm going to practice around this neighborhood for a bit to see if I can detect it, but since it happens after a certain speed, I may have to hit that road to find out.

So really, I know what you mean about moving from 15-20mph roads and going into 35-40 mph roads. The best thing I can suggest is to not push yourself when you don't feel ready, and when you do feel ready, take it in small stretches at a time. From one road to another road, pause, rest, recoup, then back again. Until you start feeling an urge to go a little further out each time. And on days when you don't feel like dealing with it? Don't, period.

Safety first, and
Only take risks when you feel ready for them.

[wolfpackscooter]

Good thoughts. I think one of the things I like best about this whole scooter deal is how supportive the community is. Makes it a lot easier!

Cheers.

[olhogrider]

Lots of good info from low-time riders! I am a bad example. That is my role in life. I have been riding for over 40 years and have had a few accidents. While most were "legally" the other driver's fault, my actions were a contributing factor. Here's one they don't usually mention in training, "look both ways before crossing the street". Just because you have a green light doesn't mean the other guy will stop. I learned this one the hard way. My BMW wound up in the driver's door. Thanks to proper gear I only had a few bruises.

When my first-born was 13 DAYS OLD, I strapped her car seat on the luggage rack of the Harley and rode up and down the street. I have pictures. Now she rides a scooter!