What a difference tunes make

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:27 pm

So my helmet has those slots for a communication system by the ears. Cool little pockets. Put a pair of those in-ear buds inside them. Hooked up my MP3 player. What a perfect solution. They aren't IN my ear so it's very comfy and not to loud.
Went to work.
OMG!

People are REALLY going to think I'm crazy. Stop at a stop light and I'm tapping my feet, bobbing the scoot back and forth to the music.

Take off from a light and I bounce on the seat a little when the really fun parts of the music come up. O man.... The fun just went up a level.

*Please don't pollute this thread with "you need to hear to be safe!"*
The only unsafe thing about driving with tunes it that the throttle seems to open a little wider then normal during a really good song.

The term is SEE.... not HEE or even SHEE. hehehe

Who else is "tuning"?

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:31 pm

Me, me, me, meeeeeeeeee!

Except I enjoy my little scoot dancing antics at stop lights. I think little kids do too. I always see them pointing, waving and grinning at me. Of course, they could be laughing at me, but hey, at least they're smiling and not crying or whining...

Eh...it makes the ride more fun to have a soundtrack to the view that goes by.

coffeebrown · Post by **coffeebrown** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:43 pm

What are these slots you speaketh of?????

I NEED tunes and have been lonely without them!

I had just installed a very nice USB/mp3 stereo system in my S420 right before I got my scoot and was really enjoying it but then.....I started riding my Black Cat and am suffering without tunes. Please enlighten me.

Xena · Post by **Xena** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:43 pm

I have thought about tuning as well, but I am worried that I will not be as alert to things going on around me and therefore miss something that could potentially kill me, so I have chosen to just listen to the wind.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:51 pm

I am every bit as alert as I was before, if not more so, if that is even possible. Tunes don't distract me like, say, talking on the phone does. Which is why I don't cage + talk on the celly.
You listen to tunes in your car, right? Are you less alert?

CoffeeBrown, my Scorpion helmet had them built in. They are for those wireless communication systems that a lot of bikers use. It's a little snap pouch on each side with a mesh piece to allow sound through.

coffeebrown · Post by **coffeebrown** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:54 pm

7eregrine:

which model helmet do you have?

Xena · Post by **Xena** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:59 pm

7eregrine wrote:I am every bit as alert as I was before, if not more so, if that is even possible. Tunes don't distract me like, say, talking on the phone does. Which is why I don't cage + talk on the celly.
You listen to tunes in your car, right? Are you less alert?

CoffeeBrown, my Scorpion helmet had them built in. They are for those wireless communication systems that a lot of bikers use. It's a little snap pouch on each side with a mesh piece to allow sound through.

Damn good point! I totally multi-task in the car...duh of course I can listen to tunes on the scooter...

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:00 pm

I listen to the voices in my head.

Post by **illnoise** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:00 pm

I'm about as big of a safety nerd as you can get, but once in a while I'll break down and put in one earbud.

It arguably helps you focus and relax to some degree, but I'd say if you're dancing at a stoplight, you're not paying as much attention as you would be if you *weren't* dancing. I've definitely lost myself in a trance listening to music while riding a few times, so it does happen.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying please use caution and be very honest with yourself how much it affects your hearing, attention, and reaction.

I think it's important to put the ipod or whatever somewhere (in an inside jacket pocket) where you can't be tempted to play around with it, and set the volume check so it doesn't get too loud when a louder song comes on.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:34 pm

I have the SOLID 100:

Pretty sure ALL Scorpion helmets have them.
http://www.scorpionusa.com/home.html

illnoise, just because I am tapping my foot or moving my scoot doesn't mean I am ANY less attentive. Hell I sometimes dance the scoot at a light to the 'music' of the turn signals.
I am the blind-in-one-eye scooterist. I take this activity VERY seriously. If I thought for even one second I was even marginally distracted listening to music I simply would not do it. It is not distracting at all, at least to me.
As I said, if anything, it makes me MORE attentive (again if that's even possible).
I don't futz with it, though. I create a playlist before I ride.

anndelise · Post by **anndelise** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:47 pm

siobhan wrote:I listen to the voices in my head.

Yeah, can't get mine to shut up, normally.
And I certainly can't handle driving a cage and carrying on a conversation at the same time...phone or no phone. So those voices just really make things difficult.
But the sound of the wind and the motor helps me. As does telling them to pipe down so I can keep an eye out for surface and traffic factors, and a feel out for the scoot's responses, and an ear out for the scoot's engine changes.
After a while, it seems that the voices find those things boring and carry on their oh so important conversation without me...or behind my back.

Tysonviolin · Post by **Tysonviolin** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:50 pm

I'm inspired and pulling appart a pair of Sony MDR-7506 studio headphones now and installing them in my helmet. I just have to customize the cable so the cord is very short. In use I'll have an extension. YAY!!!!!

I'm just taking the drivers and their holders out of the headset.
<img src="http://www.dvwarehouse.com/images_4prod ... -large.jpg">

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:10 pm

Interesting. I find the music keeps me alert, but to each his own. It also makes the drive seem prettier and smell nicer...which...I never noticed the downtown FW 820/377/121/Belknap split smelled so much like hay.

Amazing what a scooter will do for sensory deprivation.

ryder1 · Post by **ryder1** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:10 pm

Keep in mind some states it is illegal, but like helmet laws other states allow it.

enzomatic · Post by **enzomatic** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:23 pm

heh don't listen to music, but you wouldn't know that from seeing me at a light, I usually end up with some song stuck in my head and dance to it and sing along. Usually forget that ppl can totally hear me through the FF.

I've been checking out helmet speaker systems, I'm sure I can make my own though

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:34 am

You can be heard through the FF??

Will keep that in mind. (Whenever I can afford to get my scooter. *sniff*)

I'd be too paranoid for music in both ears. Besides, I think 2 is illegal here in NC. Not sure. I'm pretty sure 1 is allowed. That, I'd love to do.

When I used to bicycle commute (it's my only experience so far! I'M WORKING ON IT!!

) the strangest songs would get stuck in my head. It could be stuff from my childhood that I hadn't heard in 20-25 years! Anyone remember "We Sing Silly Songs"? There's a hole in the bucket, dear Lisa dear Lisa. There's a hole in the bucket, dear Lisa A HOLE!

The worst one that haunted me every time I went out was the theme music for the Wicked Witch of the West from Wizard of Oz. It happened to have the same tempo as the pavement. Eeek!!!

Yeah...I'm definately planning on having music.

Sixtis · Post by **Sixtis** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:38 am

What do you guys think of these? I was thinking about gettin them.

http://www.scooterwest.com/item_detail/ ... KERS/1407/

Post by **jmazza** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:15 am

I listen every so often. I have over-the-ear earbuds which are earbuds but don't go in that far. It's definitely possible to listen at a low enough volume that it's not very compromising and I'm one of those who focuses in on whatever task I'm attending to when listening to music.

At the same time, I have also caught myself listening too loud. Never too loud to not hear cars, but just loud enough to where the music takes center stage a bit.

I listen with two headphones because I believe that one throws off everything spatially. Not the music, but everything. All the environmental sounds come from one side which can mess with perception and locating of sounds, and I think that is more dangerous than music.

I agree with illnoise 100% on not messing around with the iPod, but I use my iPod Shuffle clipped to my jeans pocket so I can quickly (without looking) hit pause with my left thumb and turn the music off. The couple times I did put an iPod inside a jacket pocket, I really needed to turn the music off and found myself searching for the buttons through the jacket.

I'm still not sure about it. I'd love a REAL helmet headphone set up (Nolan N-COM anyone??). I listen maybe 25-30% of the time and it goes in phases. I'll have a week where I listen all the time and then (like now) I won't listen at all for three weeks.

I'm not crazy enough to say that it's 100% safe all the time for everyone, but I think it can be done safely.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:44 pm

jmazza wrote: Never too loud to not hear cars

I read your post last night but wanted to scoot to work sans music so I could better comment. I rode to work today and was concentrating (a little to much) on how well I could hear cars.
Either you have dog-like hearing or I am going deaf.
Over the sound of the wind, through a helmet, and over the BRAAAAAAP of the Buddy, I couldn't hear cars at all. I couldn't hear the car behind me. I couldn't hear the car in front of me (except at a traffic light) even when I got closer to it then I normally do. The only time I heard cars was taking off from a light or when they were RIGHT next to me.
Does the MSC/MSF mention hearing at all? No.
Does David Hough mention hearing at all? No.
By the time you hear a car that may cause a problem for you it is probably going to be time to make an evasive move.

I used to have strong feelings about driving any vehicles with headphones... then one of my best friends married a deaf woman (she has about 10% in her left and 15% in her right). Should she not be allowed to drive because she cannot hear? She has this gadget on her dash that lights up when a siren is wailing.

This is not a safety issue as long as it isn't SO loud that you can't hear sirens.

Post by **jmazza** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:29 pm

7eregrine wrote:
jmazza wrote: Never too loud to not hear cars
I read your post last night but wanted to scoot to work sans music so I could better comment. I rode to work today and was concentrating (a little to much) on how well I could hear cars.
Either you have dog-like hearing or I am going deaf.

I should have explained myself better. First, I actually do have really great hearing but that's not what I meant, lol. It's also possible you are going deaf, but again, not the point! I should have more accurately said "hear traffic" in the sense of I can hear the environment around me pretty much as well with music as without. My rule of thumb for loudness is when I adjust the volume (at a standstill before I ride off), I make sure I can still hear the turn signal clicker.

As you said, at speed, the wind and other noises prevent much traffic noise from getting through to our ears anyway. So the music just replaces the wind at a certain point.

For people with normal hearing, we see things almost as much with our ears almost as much as we do with our eyes. So regardless of whether it's part of the MSF or David Hough teaching, it's important. Like I said in my original post, locating sounds is hugely important to our perception of our environment and that's why I'm wary of wearing one ear, regardless of what the laws say. So I may disagree with you that hearing isn't incredibly important in driving/riding. Many horns are quieter than sirens and we need to hear them. So siren level isn't a good test in my opinion. Of course, people with loss of hearing learn to adapt and no, hearing isn't as important as sight with regards to driving. But your example of the woman with the siren blinker doesn't tell me it's not important at all.

For this reason, I think it is important to monitor the level of music so as to not compromise what our hearing does for us while riding (limited to a degree as it may be).

I feel like I'm probably only complicating things. I'm only two cups of coffee in to the day. Suffice it to say that I believe that listening to music at a reasonable level does not compromise the amount of hearing I'd normally have/need on a scooter.

Is that any better?? I'd be happy to edit my original post if it's confusing. This is definitely a safety issue and I'd hate for someone searching this in a few months to read my post and say "oh I can listen to loud music and still hear cars."

emoboy44 · Post by **emoboy44** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:47 pm

7eregrine wrote:I have the SOLID 100:

I was on the scorpion website. Really nice helmest. Is this where the slots for the earbuds are? I'm trying to figure out how this works.

scooterdyke · Post by **scooterdyke** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:51 pm

Personally, I like to ride my scoot as an "escape" from all of the technology that we have become so dependent upon. I couldn't imagine listening to music as I ride. I like to hear the wind rushing past and enjoy the scenery. My partner is slightly hearing-impaired and ended up getting hearing aids just because of the scooters. We were riding down a busy road when we first got the scoots and I could hear an ambulance bearing down behind us, and she could not. Fortunately, she followed by lead and pulled over, but the next day, she got fitted for hearing aids. Jeez, we even saw someone on a scooter talking on their cell phone a few weeks ago at a stop light!!

My scooter is my escape.

Xena · Post by **Xena** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:53 pm

scooterdyke wrote:Personally, I like to ride my scoot as an "escape" from all of the technology that we have become so dependent upon. I couldn't imagine listening to music as I ride. I like to hear the wind rushing past and enjoy the scenery. My partner is slightly hearing-impaired and ended up getting hearing aids just because of the scooters. We were riding down a busy road when we first got the scoots and I could hear an ambulance bearing down behind us, and she could not. Fortunately, she followed by lead and pulled over, but the next day, she got fitted for hearing aids. Jeez, we even saw someone on a scooter talking on their cell phone a few weeks ago at a stop light!!

My scooter is my escape.

I couldn't agree with you more! I have no quibs about people who choose to ride and listen to music, but you worded it perfectly for me

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:54 pm

Right on Jmazza. No need to edit. My helmet actually works so well with this because the headphones are not IN my ear. So I can still hear pretty well.... although I don't always hear the blinker when I am cruising at speed.

I will take a pic of my helmet to show you where they go, Emo.

enzomatic · Post by **enzomatic** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:08 pm

Sixtis wrote:What do you guys think of these? I was thinking about gettin them.

http://www.scooterwest.com/item_detail/ ... KERS/1407/

that seems a bit pricey and I couldn't imagine it sounding that great with that sized speakers, probably sound even worse when you're going 45. Something small inside your helmet would be better, you'll hear it w/o having to blast it. Also rigging up your own system shouldn't be too hard, sonic impact makes these great sounding amps that can run off 12v adapter or 8 AA batteries, speakers can be cheap as hell because you don't need really good ones, just need to get your mp3 player w/ headphone adapter.
Was thinking of making my broken topcase into a stereo unless I could find a way to get it fixed, that'll have to be after burning man.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:34 pm

OK, so in the first pic you can see the chin strap goes behind the grey striped piece of material. You slide that out from there and it reveals the little pocket. The blueish material in pic2 is the back of the chin strap. There is a snap enclosure. Open snap. Insert headphone or comm device.

emoboy44 · Post by **emoboy44** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:36 pm

That's nifty!

I have an email into scorpion to see if this is the same for the fullface ones. I think that's where I'm leaning.

Thanks for the pic

ScootingInTheRain · Post by **ScootingInTheRain** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:46 pm

Xena wrote:
7eregrine wrote:I am every bit as alert as I was before, if not more so, if that is even possible. Tunes don't distract me like, say, talking on the phone does. Which is why I don't cage + talk on the celly.
You listen to tunes in your car, right? Are you less alert?

CoffeeBrown, my Scorpion helmet had them built in. They are for those wireless communication systems that a lot of bikers use. It's a little snap pouch on each side with a mesh piece to allow sound through.
Damn good point! I totally multi-task in the car...duh of course I can listen to tunes on the scooter...

Thought I would put in my two cents

Quoting myself from another thread:

I like to hear anything BUT music when I ride. I am a musician (an arguable point) and I tend to over-analyze anything musical within hearing range, which distracts me from riding or driving or doing anything else. I even have to turn the radio down (or listen to news) when I am driving my cage in tricky traffic.

This is a subconscious effect. I get totally lost with music. It is really hard for me to understand the concept of "more focus while listening to music" but I guess it is true, given the number of people walking/riding bikes with very loud earphones.

It is possible to multi-task in a car because you don't need to pay attention to very much. Don't hit the car in front, don't hit the car next to you, stop if red, make the correct turns. That's about it. On a scoot: lane position, visibility, pedestrians, left-turners, people in cars blasting and "focusing" to music, trucks, manhole covers, ruts&grooves, construction areas, gravel, bug THWACK on helmet, correct wave to other riders, vapor lock

, hecklers, head checks, corner-entering speed, did I zip my wallet pocket?, is that Hummer going to stop?

Just thinking about THINKING about listening to music freaks me out.

Diff'rent strokes I guess. And diff'rent neuroses.

~SITR

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:58 pm

ScootingInTheRain wrote:
I like to hear anything BUT music when I ride. I am a musician (an arguable point) and I tend to over-analyze anything musical within hearing range, which distracts me from riding or driving or doing anything else.

LOL. Yea, maybe this isn't for you then.

ScootingInTheRain · Post by **ScootingInTheRain** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:05 pm

7eregrine wrote:
ScootingInTheRain wrote:
I like to hear anything BUT music when I ride. I am a musician (an arguable point) and I tend to over-analyze anything musical within hearing range, which distracts me from riding or driving or doing anything else.
LOL. Yea, maybe this isn't for you then.

Definitely. I work for a company that develops electronic test equipment, and as I write this there are many beeps and clicks going on in developers' cubicles. I can barely type because my brain is trying to reconcile the asynchronous tones and rhythms into a cohesive pattern. There is none, but my brain keeps trying.

Wapner's on in six minutes. Yeah...definitely six minutes.

~SITR

Xena · Post by **Xena** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:45 pm

I have a Scorpion helmet and need to look later and see if mine has that little pocket thingie...

betsy q. bramble · Post by **betsy q. bramble** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:16 am

ScootingInTheRain wrote:
7eregrine wrote:
ScootingInTheRain wrote:
I like to hear anything BUT music when I ride. I am a musician (an arguable point) and I tend to over-analyze anything musical within hearing range, which distracts me from riding or driving or doing anything else.
LOL. Yea, maybe this isn't for you then.
Definitely. I work for a company that develops electronic test equipment, and as I write this there are many beeps and clicks going on in developers' cubicles. I can barely type because my brain is trying to reconcile the asynchronous tones and rhythms into a cohesive pattern. There is none, but my brain keeps trying.

Wapner's on in six minutes. Yeah...definitely six minutes.

~SITR

shorts on the high way!

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:44 pm

Cheshire wrote:You can be heard through the FF??
Will keep that in mind. (Whenever I can afford to get my scooter. *sniff*)

I'd be too paranoid for music in both ears. Besides, I think 2 is illegal here in NC. Not sure. I'm pretty sure 1 is allowed. That, I'd love to do.

Music in one ear is actually far worse because it impedes your ability to locate sounds.

anndelise · Post by **anndelise** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:01 pm

last night i had a dream, compliments of this thread...
a scooter passed me who had one of those speaker horns on the back of the scoot, with the sound portion facing to behind the scooter, and was blaring some pretty decent music

in the dream i remembered this thread, and I was thinking about changing riding course and seeing if i could catch this scooter and see if it was the person from this thread

then somehow i wondered if it was a dream, but wasn't sure, so didn't chase it down and figured i'd hop on this thread to ask (in a dream, that's a safer thing to do, ya know)

Now i realize that it WAS a dream, so i'm not asking, lol.
(this after trying to remember just where it was that i saw this scoot..and when it was..cuz it didn't fit in with the past events over the past few days..and then realizing that the dream scoot was actually a mobility scooter inside a building rounding a corner into a hallway

)

As for sounds, I'm always listening to my engine, some other sound that my scooter makes that I'm trying to figure out what it is and where it comes from (kind of high and metally scrapey and dry)...and I totally freak when I'm passing someone who suddenly starts up their lawnmower or weedwhacker because my first thought is that something in my engine suddenly changed..until i realize what the sound actually was. It does get my heart pumping though!!

I can only imagine how this would worsen if i was having music going by my ear as well. (note, this is me, and says nothing about anyone else's preferences)

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:09 pm

JettaKnight wrote:
Music in one ear is actually far worse because it impedes your ability to locate sounds.

And what sounds exactly are you going to locate through a helmet, over the wind and over the BRAAAAAP of the Buddy??
As I've said.... by the time you can hear that car..... it's probably too late...

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:47 pm

A few things come to mind...

I don't think there's any research anywhere that proves listening to music while riding is unsafe. Lots of riders do it and have been doing it for years. It's an individual choice we can all make, like smoking, gearing up, or whatever.

Listening to music has nothing to do with being alert. You can maintain alertness as long as you're awake and functioning. Listening to music (or smoking, or making phone calls, etc) can be a distraction and, again, it's up to the individual rider to determine how distracted you'll allow yourself to get. Listening in a car is different because the actual act of operating a car is far less complex than the act of riding a scooter or bike. I listen to music in the car all the time, on bicycle, scooter and motorcycle, hardly ever.

If your only concern is hearing cars around you, you're missing key points. How about bicycle bells while your stopped at an intersection? How about that first warning howl from your front tire as it's about to lose traction? How about that little brrp sound when your rear brake is on the verge of locking?

The fact that David Hough doesn't mention music is irrelevant. He doesn't mention pissing while riding either. Should we? His books are great but don't use something he excludes as a reason for adoption. If you like it and you feel it doesn't impact your riding, enjoy it.

Like I said, there are strong proponents for both sides of this argument and there's certainly no research proving it's unsafe. Some will choose to tune in, others won't. Like ScooterDave says, "Live and Let Live".

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:22 pm

gt1000 wrote: If your only concern is hearing cars around you, you're missing key points. How about bicycle bells while your stopped at an intersection?

That's NOT my concern. I don't use my ears for spotting cars.

Stopped at an intersection I am quite sure I would SEE that little bicycle long before I heard any bells. And I'm not wearing noice cancelling headphones here.

I don't think Hough not mentioning it is irrelevant. If it was a dangerous practice, I am sure he would mention it. As for peeing, no problem there. Just keep both hands on the handlebars.

HD riders can't hear anything but their bikes and they do just fine. Hell some of those bikes come with integrated sound systems.

Wholeheartedly agree with your first 2 paragraphs.

I am all for Live and Let Live. I am not preaching. Just trying to clear up misconceptions. There are enough of those about 2 wheeling already.

/EDIT/
Lastly, as I said, I used to be VEHEMENTLY opposed to headphones while driving ANY vehicle. I hang out on a music site too and went OFF on this guy listening to headphones while he drove because his radio broke. Then my buddy met the deaf woman. And....and... she drives a car better then I do!!! I did a complete 180 after that.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:37 pm

7eregrine wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:
Music in one ear is actually far worse because it impedes your ability to locate sounds.
And what sounds exactly are you going to locate through a helmet, over the wind and over the BRAAAAAP of the Buddy??
As I've said.... by the time you can hear that car..... it's probably too late...

Ok, I'm with you for the most part on this topic in general, and also I saw your post about Newcastle so I've got a new respect for you, but I think this is a wee bit over the top.

We ride Buddy 125's. 4-stroke Buddy 125's that don't really go BRAAAAAAP. They go purrrrrrrr... barely. They aren't Harleys with noisy pipes, they aren't even 2-strokes.

And isn't your helmet a 1/2? I can hear things through my full-face!

Locating sounds and hearing is something that has a lot more to do with perception than something we are always aware of. I bet you'd be amazed if suddenly on the road on your Buddy you lost all hearing for a second. Whether we realize it or not, there are TONS of auditory clues to our environment all over us, even on a Buddy.

I'm starting to think you ARE going deaf!!!

(very much just kidding and trying to keep this light- too much tension on mb.com today anyway!)

That said, I still think you can listen to music and be safe!!!

I'd like to point out what should be obvious to anyone carefully reading this thread, but might not be. Listening to music could definitely be potentially dangerous (even disastrous ) to your riding. It also could bring an extra amount of fun. Don't try it until you are very comfortable riding. Don't try it the first time on a busy road. Don't try it somewhere where you can't either shut it off right away without further distraction or get off the road to take the headphones off. Just a bit of a disclaimer, I guess.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:03 pm

True that about the recent 'tension'.

jmazza wrote:
And isn't your helmet a 1/2? I can hear things through my full-face!

Maybe that's my issue. The wind comes right inside my helmet.
I am borderline claustrophobic. Get wierd in anything smaller then an elevator. I cannot wear a FF. Not kidding, I've tried and it freaks me out. I won't admit that in public again, mm'kay.

1,000% agree THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. I will freely admit I CANNOT drive a car and talk on a cellphone. I WILL kill someone. FAR to distracting to me to carry on a convo while trying to drive. Straight to VM when I am driving. I know others can do this with no problem.

I am sure I would turn off the tunes if I was in a HEAVILY congested area (which is rare on my commute) or on a feeway. I don't do it every ride, for sure.

Sometimes I like not hearing anything but the woosh and the braaa.... err purrrr.

Cheers!

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:07 pm

7eregrine wrote:True that about the recent 'tension'.

jmazza wrote:
And isn't your helmet a 1/2? I can hear things through my full-face!
Maybe that's my issue. The wind comes right inside my helmet.
I am borderline claustrophobic. Get wierd in anything smaller then an elevator. I cannot wear a FF. Not kidding, I've tried and it freaks me out. I won't admit that in public again, mm'kay.

Yanno that's a good point, a full-face might allow slightly better hearing because wind noise is reduced. I hadn't thought of that! And I left up the pic of the Newkie Brown just because, well, it's Newkie Brown!

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:00 pm

That's NOT my concern. I don't use my ears for spotting cars.

That point seemed to keep coming up, that's the only reason I singled it out. My point was that I tend to not be listening for cars (or that awful skidding sound behind you) but rather listening to my bike and other things.

I don't think Hough not mentioning it is irrelevant. If it was a dangerous practice, I am sure he would mention it.

Certainly possible, but we can't know unless we ask him. That's not my point though. My point is that taking the MSF class and reading Proficient Motorcycling is like graduating from Elementary School. You (and by "you", I mean all of us) still have lots to learn. Hough is a tiny nugget of information in your skill package.

And, by the way, at a decent speed, half or 3/4 helmets are far, far noisier than even the noisiest full face helmet. So yeah, if my bike is talking to me at high speed (say, anything above 50 or 60) I have a better chance of hearing it if I'm in a full face helmet.

Finally, depending on the type of bodywork on your bike (naked, fairing, small windscreen, large windscreen, etc), noise from any of your surroundings (including the straight pipes on Harleys) is unlikely to override the wind noise inherent with riding at speed. Once you hit highway speeds, hearing anything becomes much more "irrelevant", for lack of a better word. Wind noise trumps everything else.

I'm pleased that you took my points in the spirit I intended. My goal was not to preach or to even talk about safety, but to present both sides. This subject comes up a lot in moto forums of all types and, like I said originally, there's good thinking in the pro music camp as well as in the non-music camp. I really believe it comes down to personal preference.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:15 am

JettaKnight wrote:Music in one ear is actually far worse because it impedes your ability to locate sounds.

As odd as this sounds, as long as it's in my right ear and not my left, I can pinpoint most sounds pretty accurately. It's like my brain splits audio into two separate channels or something...I blame it on severe ADHD. My eyes are the same when it comes to motion tracking, just reversed. (found that out when I lost a contact lens.) Mind you, I don't know anyone else that can do it, and most of my friends have either accepted that I'm weird or will eventually figure it out.

One thing I always do is keep the play/pause button within easy slapping distance so I can kill the music in a heartbeat. As I haven't done this with a FF helmet yet, rest assured I'm going to do rigorous testing before I put it to standard use.

Corsair · Post by **Corsair** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:57 am

enzomatic wrote:heh don't listen to music, but you wouldn't know that from seeing me at a light, I usually end up with some song stuck in my head and dance to it and sing along. Usually forget that ppl can totally hear me through the FF.

hehehe... that's definitely been me so many times

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:11 pm

Anything one is doing while riding that isn't directly contributing to the act of riding is a potential distraction.

Sorry for preaching.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:49 pm

7eregrine wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:
Music in one ear is actually far worse because it impedes your ability to locate sounds.
And what sounds exactly are you going to locate through a helmet, over the wind and over the BRAAAAAP of the Buddy??
As I've said.... by the time you can hear that car..... it's probably too late...

Agreed. At cruising speed I can't hear the engine over the wind noise. But at stops, slow riding or bycycling, sounds are quite audible.

jmsmith802 · Post by **jmsmith802** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:58 pm

I'm so glad I saw this thread... I never thought about putting my own headphones into my helmet. So this morning, I went to take a look to see how I could do it. My helmet has a deep empty cavity on each side where your ears are, and I just happened to have a broken pair of headphones with cups the same size as the empty ear cavities. So I shoved them into it (they fit nice and tight) and hid all the wires behind the padding and it works GREAT

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:30 pm

Been paying attention to the bicyclists more lately. Seems every single one of them have headphones on.

jmsmith802 · Post by **jmsmith802** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:33 pm

7eregrine wrote:Been paying attention to the bicyclists more lately. Seems every single one of them have headphones on.

There are TONS of bicyclists in my city, and I have noticed that too- At least 2/3 of them have headphones on. Music makes everything better

jim_0068 · Post by **jim_0068** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:12 am

I wear a full face and just use my in-ear ear buds however i only use one. I can still here everything fine and because i have one in my ear i can hear the music much better.

enzomatic · Post by **enzomatic** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:59 am

fitted the driver from some POS over the ear headphones in my FF helmet, only used one of them, I took the ear cover part off because it kept out too much outside sound, I find that riding with this is very doable for me as long as the music is something I'm used to or something that isn't too lyric driven. The distraction level of familiar music or instrumental music can be mitigated by a process called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habituatio ... tuation</a> so as long as there aren't novel properties to the music I'm able to keep my attention on the road. Also if it's too quiet I find my brain straining to pic it out and myself getting too distracted.