Genuine's official 2009 model lineup thread

docutech · Post by **docutech** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:06 pm

With the release of the 2009 models just around the corner, many of us are wondering what Genuine has up their sleeve. We are all itching with anticipation, so I decided to post a thread that would embrace any leaks or rumors regarding the new models. Got any news, rumors or pictures? Feel free to contribute your findings!

Extreme Toy Store in Saint Louis, MO is scheduled to take orders for the '09 models sometime in September.

Eazy · Post by **Eazy** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:08 pm

Well whatever it is I'm sure if you didn't order them in January of 2008 you won't see them until fall 2009.

docutech · Post by **docutech** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:11 pm

I had no idea that orders for the '09 models were being taken in Jan of 08. How would that be possible?

MPA · Post by **MPA** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:14 pm

I'm curious about the supposed 200cc scooter.

I like my Rattler but need something a little faster

docutech · Post by **docutech** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:21 pm

MPA wrote:I'm curious about the supposed 200cc scooter.

I like my Rattler but need something a little faster

I have heard about this 200cc thing a lot. I only wonder if it will be a true 200cc or the "rounded-up" version of 160(something) like the Kymco.

Eazy · Post by **Eazy** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:28 pm

docutech wrote:I had no idea that orders for the '09 models were being taken in Jan of 08. How would that be possible?

I'm making a joke about how terribly slow Genuine is.

Eazy · Post by **Eazy** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:29 pm

docutech wrote:
MPA wrote:I'm curious about the supposed 200cc scooter.

I like my Rattler but need something a little faster
I have heard about this 200cc thing a lot. I only wonder if it will be a true 200cc or the "rounded-up" version of 160(something) like the Kymco.

LML makes a 200cc, automatic, version of the stella I believe.

I have a podcast with Phil McCaleb talking about it.

docutech · Post by **docutech** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:29 pm

LOL

Gotcha!

You did have me going though...

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:50 pm

Eazy wrote:
docutech wrote:
MPA wrote:I'm curious about the supposed 200cc scooter.

I like my Rattler but need something a little faster
I have heard about this 200cc thing a lot. I only wonder if it will be a true 200cc or the "rounded-up" version of 160(something) like the Kymco.
LML makes a 200cc, automatic, version of the stella I believe.

I have a podcast with Phil McCaleb talking about it.

This is my guess. Automatic Stella, either 200 or 250cc. This plays into my fervent desire to have a 50-state Stella.

The Buddy: no lineup changes for '09. Possible new colors. ('09 Buddys are shipping in the fall rather than for Q1 of next year as has been the case previously.)

Other auto sport-style scooter: Is the scooter market now large enough to support a 200cc Blur? Maybe. With so many non-traditional scooter buyers coming into the market, it might be time for a comeback.

LML's ET clone: unlikely, but still an interesting possibility. Priced between the Buddy and the Vespa LX it may cut more into Vespa's sales more than the Buddy's. Great for those who walk into a scooter shop wanting and expecting a Vespa.

Something else: Well, we know what else is in the PGO lineup. And we know what else is in the LML lineup. But that doesn't mean that Genuine doesn't have something up its sleeve. There are always crazy hints and rumors and, in general, they're about 25% accurate (ballpark off the top of my head figure).

Eazy · Post by **Eazy** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:01 pm

yeah, maybe they're bring back the black cat and the atomic fireball.

those were real hits.

GFridrich3 · Post by **GFridrich3** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:02 pm

Heck, even bringing back a small supply of 150cc Blurs for 09 would be a godsend for those of us that dont want a vintage style scooter. 200cc or 250cc Blurs would be gladly welcomed into the family. It would be cool to see a new model altogether for 09 as well. A Vespa GTS clone would be totally awesome if it were to happen...

fiver1971 · Post by **fiver1971** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:35 pm

Does anybody know of an official LML website? I haven't been able to find one.

MPA · Post by **MPA** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:59 pm

Well if it's an auto Stella, I'd guess the pricing would be higher then the normal one and that doesn't interest me

If it's the PGO G-Max 200 that might interest me.

irishtim · Post by **irishtim** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:08 pm

fiver1971 wrote:Does anybody know of an official LML website? I haven't been able to find one.

This might help:

http://auto.indiamart.com/autolink.html ... s.com/lml/

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:51 pm

Any word on colors?

Will it be Red, Black, Sunny Delight (the 09 Orange), Geneva, London and Dublin?

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:28 pm

As a Blur owner, I would vote against a 200 or 250cc Blur. Unless, it's on a bigger frame.

The 150cc Blur does everything you would want it to do. Sure, it could be a little quicker or have a little more top end, but you could say that about any scoot or car for that matter that you own.

The Blur does eveything it can do safely while still delivering good fuel economy. What it doesn't do is provide you the opportunity to do touring.

Why? The Blur just isn't big enough for Interstate travel, even if it's only for a few miles between extended stints on that backroad two-lane we all love. It needs to be heavier and have a lower center of gravity to do this. The extra weight of the engine isn't going to cut it.

A lot of Genuine owners are first-time scooter owners. Many eventually are going to want to upgrade to something else. A lot of people upgrade to a motorcycle for this very reason. Why not give people an alternative - a scooter in the 300cc plus range that is still a good commuter, but large enough for intercity travel.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:57 pm

irishtim wrote:
fiver1971 wrote:Does anybody know of an official LML website? I haven't been able to find one.
This might help:

http://auto.indiamart.com/autolink.html ... s.com/lml/

That's actually a dealer/distributor site. I thought I had a LML corporate site bookmarked but can't find it. I'll poke around.

sotied wrote:Any word on colors?

Will it be Red, Black, Sunny Delight (the 09 Orange), Geneva, London and Dublin?

I've been told there are no new colors in the first run of '09 Buddys. Maybe new ones later in the year.

Also, Scootering (UK) mag on the LML 4T "Stella," from MV.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:30 am

I've always been a big fan of the Blur and the Stella and, to me, both could use the added oomph from a larger engine. Ultimately though, I think the Blur would be the better platform.

I don't see either as touring bikes at all, just like I don't see the GTS as a touring bike. Not big enough, not powerful enough, not comfortable enough. But, for all around daily riding I wouldn't want a "touring bike", I'd rather have something as close to a small frame as possible.

One of the things that struck me in the linked MV thread (aside from all the arguing over the Stella, I haven't visited MV in a long while but some things never change) was one person hoping that the Stella would be his "perfect scooter". I've got some news for everyone, and most of you probably know this already, but there is no perfect scooter or bike. They're all compromises of some sort and you try to choose the one that fits best and then spend lots of time and money modifying.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:11 am

gt1000 wrote:I don't see either as touring bikes at all, just like I don't see the GTS as a touring bike. Not big enough, not powerful enough, not comfortable enough. But, for all around daily riding I wouldn't want a "touring bike", I'd rather have something as close to a small frame as possible.

I've got some news for everyone, and most of you probably know this already, but there is no perfect scooter or bike. They're all compromises of some sort and you try to choose the one that fits best and then spend lots of time and money modifying.

I should have said, light touring. I'd like to be able to do 250 or so miles to get to St. Louis or be able to hit the Ozarks. I want just a little bit more underneath me. I've had the GTS out on the freeway and man, does glide. Sweet ride. Nothing rides like a Vespa - not really my style though.

There is always the KLR 650. Do everything, go anywhere.

I agree, every bike is a compromise.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:36 am

Well, to be fair, my definition of touring is kind of eccentric. I tend to think of anything that requires a gas stop or two as touring. And, to me, 200+ miles is a pretty healthy ride. Plus, I refuse to give up a light and nimble ride for a heavier, more "comfy" ride for the sake of touring. I'm also a big fan of the KLR but not sure I'd be happy with it as a touring bike.

Really though, for the type of riding you're talking about, you just need to find a bike that fits you right. As long as it's got the guts to keep up with traffic, the next most important thing for touring is comfort and protection from the elements. I can pretty well guarantee the bike you'd wind up with would differ greatly from the bike I'd wind up with.

And that's how it should be!

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:59 am

I think part of the reason for a Stella to go up to a 200 or 250 for a 4-stroke would be to compensate in part for any resulting pokiness, a complaint a lot of people had about the Bajaj 150 Chetak 4-strokes.

I hope it would be a heartier ride overall.

Of course, I really want a manual, but will take what I can get in CA.

Xena · Post by **Xena** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:55 pm

Ok a pink automatic 200 or 250cc Stella would absolutely be purchased by me if the dream comes true...

dakims · Post by **dakims** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:57 pm

does anyone know when the '09 buddys will be out? I placed a deposit a while back and haven't gotten one, so now I just want to wait for a '09. Is that a smart idea?

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:56 pm

dakims wrote:does anyone know when the '09 buddys will be out? I placed a deposit a while back and haven't gotten one, so now I just want to wait for a '09. Is that a smart idea?

The '09s will be available in the fall. (Prior to '09, new models weren't out until Q1 of the actual calendar year.) Since there's no difference between the '08 and '09, there's not much point in waiting.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:28 am

I would LOVE it if they have a 200-250cc (actual displacement, not just in name like most other brands) in the new lineup. 125-150cc's doesn't really get me safely out of town without some serious planning and mapping out backroads...and I live in the country. I'd love to be able to comfortably use 55 mph 2-lane highways. No interest in the interstate, but their predecessor 2-lane roads would be lovely.

I loved the lines and look of the Blur. I'd love if they brought that back, or brought the Stella up to specs on emissions. That'd kick serious butt.

*fingers crossed*

kathygnome · Post by **kathygnome** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:59 am

dakims wrote:does anyone know when the '09 buddys will be out? I placed a deposit a while back and haven't gotten one, so now I just want to wait for a '09. Is that a smart idea?

I have my name on a waiting list and when I asked how long, I was told the absolute worst case would be that the 09s would be available in October.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:27 am

Cheshire wrote:I loved the lines and look of the Blur. I'd love if they brought that back, or brought the Stella up to specs on emissions. That'd kick serious butt.

*fingers crossed*

The only place where the Stella currently doesn't meet emissions guidelines is California! Any 200cc or 250cc would probably be 50-state compliant.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:47 am

I was at Motorsports on Saturday. They told me that most scooters will not be available until October.

BUT they happen to get a couple of '09 Kymco People 150s. The 2-tone paint was much better than the pictures. The 50cc version have a cool tail light.

Looks like Genuine better get on the ball. Not only the People is cheaper, it is a much better riding scooter, available, and faster than the Buddy.

GFridrich3 · Post by **GFridrich3** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:59 am

KCScooterDude wrote:There is always the KLR 650. Do everything, go anywhere.

My friend at work has an 08' with upgraded windscreen, two brothers full exhaust with anti-flash cap kit for offroad fire safety, corbin contour leather seat, anti-slip tank grip and upgraded rear rack kit. Got it used with 700 miles for 4k out the door. The exhaust alone was 650 bucks new. Coolest bike anyone i know owns by far. 650cc's of single cylinder excitement. You dont even appreciate what it is to call the thing a "thumper" until you hear it running.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:35 am

GFridrich3 wrote:
KCScooterDude wrote:There is always the KLR 650. Do everything, go anywhere.
My friend at work has an 08' with upgraded windscreen, two brothers full exhaust with anti-flash cap kit for offroad fire safety, corbin contour leather seat, anti-slip tank grip and upgraded rear rack kit. Got it used with 700 miles for 4k out the door. The exhaust alone was 650 bucks new. Coolest bike anyone i know owns by far. 650cc's of single cylinder excitement. You dont even appreciate what it is to call the thing a "thumper" until you hear it running.

Tell it again, only slower.

(Gotta love scooter (er MC) porn!!!)

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:50 am

GFridrich3 wrote:
KCScooterDude wrote:There is always the KLR 650. Do everything, go anywhere.
My friend at work has an 08' with upgraded windscreen, two brothers full exhaust with anti-flash cap kit for offroad fire safety, corbin contour leather seat, anti-slip tank grip and upgraded rear rack kit. Got it used with 700 miles for 4k out the door. The exhaust alone was 650 bucks new. Coolest bike anyone i know owns by far. 650cc's of single cylinder excitement. You dont even appreciate what it is to call the thing a "thumper" until you hear it running.

Your friend got a smokin' deal. This is why buying the right motorcycle used instead of new is one of the best plans you can have. Bike, plus over $1K in accessories for over a thousand less than sticker price of a new one.

I'd jump on that deal too and worry later about where to park it.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:19 pm

I'm with Eric on everything, with a few added comments:

Stella:
http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php?p=3976
Scootering magazine reported 4-stroke 200/250cc Stellas were in the works back in march, but there's lots of debate about whether they're manuals or automatics, and if/when they'll actually appear. I've heard lots of rumors, at least ten different variations on this idea with variations on transmission, engine style, displacement, frame design, etc. Something's gonna come along sooner or later, best case IMHO would be a 50-state-legal 4-stroke 200 or 250cc manual, but for all we know it could be a Blur 200 engine in a rigged-up tube frame with plastic fake-vespa bodywork, who knows? I have a feeling Genuine's pretty heavily involved in the development (rumor has it PGO might even be involved), but I bet they still have a way to go to come up with the final product.

Blur: I'm betting it'll be back. The story was that the 200cc would come for 2007, but it turned out to be too expensive for minimal performance gain, and the 2006es weren't selling great anyway. Now there are 4-valve versions, I'd love to see the souped up 4-valve fuel-injected 150 than the 200. As far as I can tell, the 250cc is out of production, and it was in a different (and not as cool) frame.

Buddy: McC has said they won't change, so I guess no EFI, which is a bummer. I bet they play around with colors a little, but I wouldn't expect any major changes (I bet the price goes up another $100, too!) Look for more accessories and maybe short-run custom kinda stuff like they did with the stella (atomic fireball, GB-style, etc). As I've said a million times, that platform can't support more than 150cc without major frame/brake/suspension upgrades, so don't hold your breath for a 200.

And don't forget about the hybrid Buddy!

I just got back from vacation, so hopefully I'll have time to do some snooping and get some better info soon.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:24 pm

illnoise wrote: Buddy: ... Look for more accessories and maybe short-run custom kinda stuff like they did with the stella (atomic fireball, GB-style, etc).

Anything you can dig up on whether the tall windshield will be available for the new headset would be greatly appreciated! I'm holding off on my purchase as I want the hand covering ability of the old one and I haven't found anything OEM that will work.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:43 pm

illnoise wrote:And don't forget about the hybrid Buddy!

Hybrid? That baby's all electric!
http://news.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/ ... 22953.html

…the world`s first electric scooter powered simultaneously by lithium-ion/lead-acid batteries.

According to Chen Chih-tsao, PGO`s chief engineer, the new lithium-ion battery stores the electricity and supplies the more stable electricity to the traditional lead-acid battery, which outputs higher-voltage power to drive the motor. This design, Chen explained, prolongs the life of lead-acid batteries by preventing frequent deep discharges and also greatly reduces the weight of the vehicle. On PGO`s new dual-type battery electric scooter, the lithium-ion battery pack is portable. It weighs only 2.5kg and up extras can be stored in the luggage compartment for recharge at home.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:01 pm

What happened to the rumor that LML was going to produce an (Vespa) ET clone?

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:19 pm

pcbikedude wrote:What happened to the rumor that LML was going to produce an (Vespa) ET clone?

They already have. It's called the "Clipper" (link). I think it's been out of production since the LML strike so the rumors are of it making a comeback.

Heh, I Googled "lml vespa et clone" and came up with several places I have mentioned it, illnoise writing about it on 2sb, other MV and MB posts… So we're perpetuating the rumor, but I did see this mentioned in news stories when LML resumed production.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:01 pm

I don't think the Clipper ever went into full production. Someone (I forget who) told me they rode a prototype shortly before the strike. But allegedly, LML has the ET2/ET4 steel presses, so it could happen.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if those turn out to be the automatic stellas. Pure speculation, though.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:36 pm

We need to have a spy in India and Taiwan. Any volunteers? We can't pay you anything but you can spend your days snooping around in a scooter factory

and report back to us what you hear and see. We may even have you whisper ideas in their ears.

I can hear the howling now from Vespa owners quarter if Genuine imported an ET clone.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:48 pm

pcbikedude wrote:We need to have a spy in India and Taiwan. Any volunteers? We can't pay you anything but you can spend your days snooping around in a scooter factory and report back to us what you hear and see. We may even have you whisper ideas in their ears.

I can hear the howling now from Vespa owners quarter if Genuine imported an ET clone.

This is the only spy you need.

www.alibaba.com. Enter motor scooter, click on India for India, China for China.

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?Typ ... en&CatId=0

skullmechanic · Post by **skullmechanic** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:12 pm

PGO's website for the G-Max 200 shows a guy clearly riding it in the southwestern US. Maybe this is a hint...

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... US228US236

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:16 pm

skullmechanic wrote:PGO's website for the G-Max 200 shows a guy clearly riding it in the southwestern US. Maybe this is a hint...

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... US228US236

I was going to ask "How do you know it's the southwestern US?" then I saw the image. Pretty unmistakable. Looks like it might be a photographic backdrop, though.

If it were Chicago, then I'd give this a lot more weight!

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:34 pm

ericalm wrote:
skullmechanic wrote:PGO's website for the G-Max 200 shows a guy clearly riding it in the southwestern US. Maybe this is a hint...

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... US228US236
I was going to ask "How do you know it's the southwestern US?" then I saw the image. Pretty unmistakable. Looks like it might be a photographic backdrop, though.

If it were Chicago, then I'd give this a lot more weight!

How do you say PhotoShop in Chinese?

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:00 pm

英

skullmechanic · Post by **skullmechanic** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:37 pm

ericalm wrote:Looks like it might be a photographic backdrop, though. If it were Chicago, then I'd give this a lot more weight!

Yeah, but why did they choose that background? They might just be trying to tell us Buddy fans something...

I am of the philosophy that until facts are in evidence, you get to believe whatever makes you happy.

badapple · Post by **badapple** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:51 pm

skullmechanic wrote:PGO's website for the G-Max 200 shows a guy clearly riding it in the southwestern US. Maybe this is a hint...

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... US228US236

Well, that settles it then. "Google" translated the owner's manual!!!

"With the other home depot not the same, PGO to assure you of is not only the "cylinder" even the most important "NASA technology Detroit," also have permanent warranty. 这颗because the engine is very brave, we the guts to your goodies such a guarantee."

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:18 pm

ericalm wrote:The only place where the Stella currently doesn't meet emissions guidelines is California! Any 200cc or 250cc would probably be 50-state compliant.

I know...but that's one of the only things that keep me from going with a 2-stroke. I'm one of those annoying environmentalists...just minus the dreads and whining.

illnoise: I'm hoping they'll upgrade the frame, etc to support 200-250cc's. I'm sure they wouldn't release something until they're sure it's solid...but I'm REALLY hoping they've been planning, scheming, and designing in the background!

betsy q. bramble · Post by **betsy q. bramble** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:27 pm

pcbikedude wrote: Looks like Genuine better get on the ball. Not only the People is cheaper, it is a much better riding scooter, available, and faster than the Buddy.

Not in my experience. I rode around on a People for awhile the other day and it took a lot more throttle to get to speeds that my Buddy gets to with barely a twist of the wrist.

Better riding is debatable...sure the bigger wheels take bumps more smoothly, but I found it less maneuverable. So...a trade off at best.

It has the world's tiniest floor board, too. I have normal sized feet and I found it irritating.

Lastly, I find the People to be hideously ugly.

end rant.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:55 am

betsy q. bramble wrote:Not in my experience. I rode around on a People for awhile the other day and it took a lot more throttle to get to speeds that my Buddy gets to with barely a twist of the wrist.

Better riding is debatable...sure the bigger wheels take bumps more smoothly, but I found it less maneuverable. So...a trade off at best.

It has the world's tiniest floor board, too. I have normal sized feet and I found it irritating.

Lastly, I find the People to be hideously ugly.

end rant.

I own both with 5100km on the People and 5200mi on the Buddy. The Buddy is NOT a better scooter. Looks are equal. Some people do not like the faux vintage look of the Buddy. The People is 5mph faster than the Buddy on the top end. I'm not going to argue the point.

Entry level, the People is the same price as the Buddy. It is a step above the Buddy IMHO.

IMHO, Genuine needs to provide a scooter that Buddy owners can step up to. I have never had the opportunity to ride a Blur to say that it is that answer.

If Genuine doesn't have this answer, personally, I'm going look at other scooters like a Vespa GTV.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:31 am

pcbikedude wrote:IMHO, Genuine needs to provide a scooter that Buddy owners can step up to. I have never had the opportunity to ride a Blur to say that it is that answer.

If Genuine doesn't have this answer, personally, I'm going look at other scooters like a Vespa GTV.

Wouldn't the 4-stroke auto Stella 200/250 would fit the bill nicely?

Though I think there's more of a potential Blur market now, I still think it doesn't have the styling that most Buddy owners (and many new scooter buyers) are looking for.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:43 am

ericalm wrote:Wouldn't the 4-stroke auto Stella 200/250 would fit the bill nicely?

Though I think there's more of a potential Blur market now, I still think it doesn't have the styling that most Buddy owners (and many new scooter buyers) are looking for.

It probably would be that step above the entry level Buddy. But it isn't a real product yet or may never be.