Who's Crashed? [Crash Reports]

[pugbuddy]

I really wish the classes around here would let you take them on the scooter itself instead of a motorcycle.

Don't worry about that. I had to take mine on a motorcycle and I probably learned more doing that. There's a "safety zone" you get in if you use your own vehicle. If you have to use something less familiar, I think you pay better attention and learn more. Everything they teach you will still apply and is easily transferable to riding your scooter. It's all good!

[rondothemidget]

Have you picked up on the Genuine Scooter requirement that the first servicing needs to be done by a dealer in order for the warranty to remain in effect. Something to think about.

That is not factual. Section 102(c) of the Magnuson-Moss Warrant Act states that "Tie-In Sales' Provisions" generally are not allowed. "Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty." A permissible example they give is: "While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty."
What this means is PGO/Genuine can not require you to go to their dealers for service and if I change my own oil and mess up the service, I can void the warranty.

Just to make sure, I just drained the oil and checked everything out. The filter looked good and I drained about 600 ml's of oil. I tightened everything down (using a torque wrench on the filter at 8 ft lb) and refilled the oil. I ran it for about a minute, turned it off, and checked for oil leaks and the oil level. The filter was actually leaking so I tightened it to 10 ft lbs and added 200 more ml's. I let it run about another minute and so far, it seems like it's holding...

And thanks for the support jrsjr!

[donkin]

I thought the proper torque for the filter is 14 to 16 lbs. Check recent threads or search for POC Phil as the author.

Thanks,

Don

[Dooglas]

What this means is PGO/Genuine can not require you to go to their dealers for service and if I change my own oil and mess up the service, I can void the warranty.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as saying that if you do your own first service rather than having it done by a dealer, Genuine may not honor a subsequent warranty claim. That is also pretty much what the warranty itself says. Genuine has a great two year warranty which is one of the best around for scooters. I don't know why anyone would want to do something that even arguably voids the warranty. I understand some folks may be a long way from a dealer. Seems like it might be possible under those circumstances to see if you can get agreement from Genuine to having the first service done by a non-Buddy mechanic or some other alternative. Just taking the chance that you can jawbone them later into honoring a warranty claim would seem to be pretty risky.

[Dooglas]

I thought the proper torque for the filter is 14 to 16 lbs. Check recent threads or search for POC Phil as the author.

basically, here's the rule:

If you don't have a torque wrench:
Put a light film of oil on the rubber gasket of the oil filter.
Put it on hand tight.
Then turn it another 3/4 - 7/8's of a turn. It should be so tight you fear crushing the filter canister.

When we put them on here at the shop we do use a torque wrench and we install them at 14~16 ft/lbs.

[ScooterDave]

What this means is PGO/Genuine can not require you to go to their dealers for service and if I change my own oil and mess up the service, I can void the warranty.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as saying that if you do your own first service rather than having it done by a dealer, Genuine may not honor a subsequent warranty claim. That is also pretty much what the warranty itself says. Genuine has a great two year warranty which is one of the best around for scooters. I don't know why anyone would want to do something that even arguably voids the warranty. I understand some folks may be a long way from a dealer. Seems like it might be possible under those circumstances to see if you can get agreement from Genuine to having the first service done by a non-Buddy mechanic or some other alternative. Just taking the chance that you can jawbone them later into honoring a warranty claim would seem to be pretty risky.

rondothemidget is 120% correct. Neither Genuine nor the dealer can require the end user to go to a Genuine Scooter dealer for service to keep the warranty valid.

If you can document that the service is performed then you are covered under warranty. This means that you can do your own oil change as long as you have receipts for the oil & filter.

It is not my opinion. It is the law.

Dave

[Dooglas]

rondothemidget is 120% correct. Neither Genuine nor the dealer can require the end user to go to a Genuine Scooter dealer for service to keep the warranty valid.

If you can document that the service is performed then you are covered under warranty. This means that you can do your own oil change as long as you have receipts for the oil & filter.

It is not my opinion. It is the law.

Dave

You didn't appear to read what "rondo" said. He concluded from the legal cite he used that Genuine could void the warranty. I'm no lawyer but I'll be darned if I see why you are so all fired determined to encourage people to avoid the first service by their dealer. The first service is not just an oil change by the way, so it remains unclear to me how documenting an oil change would cover you in any event. Certainly do as you choose. Hopefully others will make their own decision.

[bfreed]

... so, has anyone else *crashed*?

[anndelise]

Questions reordered to a more 'logical' format, (imo), and even added a question about gear:

Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Tangerine 125cc

Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes

What day and time of day did it occur?
On a Monday, a little after noon, probably close to 12:30-1:30ish.

How fast was the rider going?
Mmm, initially 35amph, slowing down before getting into the gravel, so maybe 15-20mph or so.

How far was the rider from home?
About 15 miles or so.

How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
All total I've got 239 miles under my belt. + a permit.
I don't believe that the issue was one of lack of experience so much as not enough proper attitude yet.

Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Nope, just read and studied the book, and been reading some other skills books as well.
MSF class starts in two weeks. And no, I'm not going to not ride until I've taken the course.

Was the crash due to rider error?
Yes.

Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Yes, the crash could have been avoided. I was doing the speed limit (modified buddy speed) on a curvy road. The speed limit was 35mph. It's a really nice area and a comfy ride. So I'd pull over when I'd see a vehicle coming up behind me. Not because I was going slow. Just *shrug* being nice. And so I could enjoy my surroundings more instead of worrying about the cars behind me. There was a nice gravel turn out, I'd been doing gravel turn outs so I didn't think much on this one. I got off the road smoothly. And then, I saw a hole that I hadn't seen before, right in my way. I'm not sure what I did. Possibly attempted to turn the handlebars like one would on a bike or such. I didn't use the brakes, was already going pretty slow. Whatever I did, I felt the scooter slide out to my right as we both went down on our left sides and slid a little ways. I remember thinking as the fall was happening "oh hey, my first crash, I wonder how I'll do on it??" I'd also been wondering how I would respond in a crash, if my hands would go flailing, if I'd stiffen up, or if I'd relax and go with the flow. After the sliding stopped, I popped my head up, looked at my hands, saw a small portion of my glove scuffed (not torn/ripped, just scuffed) and thought "well, now I know, I'd put my hands out in front of me in the slide (but not in the fall)". I jumped up on my feet (adrenaline helping me move faster than normal, heh), and got the scoot back on her wheels and moved further over to the side of the pull off so I wouldn't be in anyone's way. Then I checked to make sure that she was still functional, and see what kind of damage happened to her. A lady in a car pulled over and waited until I checked the scoot over, engine, throttle, start, stop, brakes, wheels, readjust the mirror, etc. I gave her the ok sign, we smiled and waved bye to each other. Then I started up and headed to the local dealer…only to realize after I got there that they weren't open on mondays..doh.

Next time, I won't be so eager to pull over for other vehicles. I was doing the limit, etc, so there was really no reason for me to have done it anyways. And each time you pull over like that, onto a gravel turn out, or a short "turn out", you put yourself at risk for an accident/crash.

I'd also like to take some off-road classes for similar situations. Gain some skills in not so great surfaces.

I'd always believed that 2 wheels have just as much rights on the roads as 4 wheels. That the roads do NOT belong to 4 wheels. But another part of me is a bit timid and unsure, not wanting to get into people's way, being accommodating, etc. But on the rest of the ride and the ride home, my mentality was less accommodating and more…firm..on my right to be on the road. I didn't even allow myself to feel pressured to go the full speed limit on that one 50mph road heading home, I allowed myself to go 42 adjusted mph. The scoot's got some kind of soft slide going on and I figured my life and safety was more important than those people behind me going nowhere fast. This attitude of my having just as much right on the roads helped me get along in my first in town ride, with traffic and such. I didn't allow myself to feel bad for taking a turn at a slower pace than a car might or a more experienced rider. I didn't feel bad for ensuring my space cushion of those cars in front and to the side of me.

I guess I'd say that it was a bit of a reaffirming/reminder 'crash'.

Was the rider injured?
Not even a scratch. Though, I might have a small bruise in a few days, and my neck/shoulders seem a bit stiff. I may have to do some stretches over the next few days. A headache's been developing, but then I woke up this morning with a killer headache too, so not surejust how much relevant the headache is to the crash. Head didn't touch the ground. Armor got dusty. And some soft leather padding on the heel of my gloves got scuffed some.

Was rider wearing gear? If yes, which gear is rider glad was wearing. If not, which gear would rider have preferred to have been wearing?
I was wearing full gear, including my new boots. I'm glad I got some good gear, too. Nothing looks to have been frazzled or anything, just dusty. I do remember thinking that I wish I had some different gloves on. I really love the gloves I had on though, very comfortable, padding in the right places, and fits really nice with lots of flexibility for curving my hands around the bars. Much of it is material instead of leather though. But where the leather is seems to be in the right places for a crash. I'm still going to be on the look out for some other gloves though, while still using these until I find something else I like.

I'm glad I had padding on my hips too. I'm not sure how much that padding helped, if any, though, but it made me glad it was there just in case the fall was harder. I'm also glad for the knee padding, again, not sure how much it came into play.

I know the boots I have aren't as functional as the other ones I could have bought, which I will when I get some more money saved up. But for the size of the scoot and the speed I was at, they were ok. Anything heavier though and the more functional boots would be a requirement, imo.

I'm also happy I had a good jacket on. Again, not sure how much the padding came into play, but the scrape resistance was awesome. And the zippers seem well covered as I didn't feel anything digging into me.

Now, to figure out how to clean them..lol.

What was the damage to the Buddy?
Some cosmetic damage, scratches along the sides. Nothing behind the cowl protector.
Head light cover, the chrome thing, popped off, broken. And the top of the handlebar cover is cracked.
Riding in town and home afterwards there seemed to be a bit of a slide going on. Small, but enough to cause another crash if not careful. Also, the handlebars don't seem to be aligned with the front body, angling slightly off to the left (we landed on our left sides). I'll have to have the shop look at it. I have 190 miles on it, and it's 15 miles into town, so if I set up an appointment for the first oil change, I can also have them look at it at the same time.

Cost of repairs, if any?
Dunno, but won't bother with the cosmetic damage. Also, it wouldn't be hard to jimmy-rig something for the head light cover. Though we'll have to get the one rock out of the handlebar inside area.
I'll have to wait and see on that misalignment thing.

[louie]

very informative. thanks for sharing. surprised you didn't mention the brand of your gear.

one of the million things taught me when a beginn...um less experienced was to own your spot on the road. good thinking. it makes a difference. no?

[anndelise]

very informative. thanks for sharing. surprised you didn't mention the brand of your gear.

one of the million things taught me when a beginn...um less experienced was to own your spot on the road. good thinking. it makes a difference. no?

oops, I've never been one to remember things like brands.
The pants/jacket are by Olympia, boots by Harley Davidson, gloves by Fly.

and yes, definitely, having that mind frame of owning your spot on the road makes a world of difference.

[pugbuddy]

Anndelise, your crash sounds a lot like mine although I believe I was going faster. I rolled instead of slid and ended up putting my hand out--pure reaction--and fractured my wrist. It happened very very quickly. I'm glad you weren't hurt! The gear makes a HUGE difference.

[anndelise]

Anndelise, your crash sounds a lot like mine although I believe I was going faster. I rolled instead of slid and ended up putting my hand out--pure reaction--and fractured my wrist. It happened very very quickly. I'm glad you weren't hurt! The gear makes a HUGE difference.

yeah, that hand thing had me wondering for a few weeks prior. Would I try to use my hands to stop the fall? Would I put all my weight onto my hands? Would I protect them? What would I do with them?

After having a cracked wrist bone, and another time some crushed hand bones (I still have the bump from it not being reset properly), plus carpeal tunnel...I spend a lot of time protecting my hands/wrists. But that doesn't mean that my fall reaction would be to protect them. Especially since I was already surprised to see that I had allowed them anywhere near the ground during the slide.

So I still wonder...what if I were going faster? What if it'd been concrete/asphalt instead of the roll-with-me gravel?
So I guess, really, the question is still up in the air

btw, I hope your wrist did heal or is healing nicely.

[pugbuddy]

According to the doctor--whom I punctually saw three months after the fact--it is healing fine, thanks!

My crash happened so fast that I don't even remember going down--I was simply on the ground rolling and the Buddy was nowhere near me! I initially had my arms held against my chest but I reacted to the rolling motion and stuck a hand out to stop before I could think. I suppose, if I see the crash coming, I may be able to keep my arms "in" but there's just no telling how I'd react if I didn't have time to figure out what was coming....

[Dooglas]

How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
All total I've got 239 miles under my belt. + a permit.
I don't believe that the issue was one of lack of experience so much as not enough proper attitude yet.

Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Nope, just read and studied the book, and been reading some other skills books as well.
MSF class starts in two weeks. And no, I'm not going to not ride until I've taken the course.

I'm glad to hear that you were not hurt. Now the tough stuff, your accident sure was due to lack of experience and lack of training. You are doing the right thing by taking an MSF course. Work at it, practice, take it seriously and you will become a good rider. Good luck, hang in there, have fun.

[anndelise]

I'm glad to hear that you were not hurt. Now the tough stuff, your accident sure was due to lack of experience and lack of training. You are doing the right thing by taking an MSF course. Work at it, practice, take it seriously and you will become a good rider. Good luck, hang in there, have fun.

Since I made a special point of putting down the 'all total of 239 miles' plus a smiley face, obviously I know that I am low on experience.

Now, if we really want to get technical, MSF says that most crashes are due to an accumulation of interacting risk factors. My best bet, to have broken the chain of a crash risk (another MSF image), would have been to not pull over for the cars since I didn't need to. And what had me pulling over for the cars, the attitude/mentality thing that I had mentioned in my post. So while I acknowledge that maybe you would have gotten a different lesson out of the mix of factors, someone else may have gotten yet a different lesson out of the experience, the lesson that I, personally, got out of the mix was the attitude/mentality change...and is in alignment with MSF teachings no less.

I do spend a lot of time practicing and working at it, I do take it seriously, thank you for the luck, I will hang in there, and I will have fun ..

[Dooglas]

MSF says that most crashes are due to an accumulation of interacting risk factors. My best bet, to have broken the chain of a crash risk (another MSF image), would have been to not pull over for the cars since I didn't need to. And what had me pulling over for the cars, the attitude/mentality thing that I had mentioned in my post.

You make an excellent point. You need to be in control of your own ride and not let other drivers force you into doing things at places or times you wouldn't choose. How you approach, and ride on, loose surfaces such as gravel is a whole nother discussion, of course.

You seem to have a great attitude about becoming a skilled rider. Good on you.

[MalindaKay]

Just now. A couple hours after bringing home my scoot. Literally I hadn't even driven it a mile. Why me?

[pugbuddy]

Bummer! Bring on the gory details (hopefully you and your scoot are fine, of course). Hopefully they will help new riders avoid whatever happened to you!

[MalindaKay]

Bummer! Bring on the gory details (hopefully you and your scoot are fine, of course). Hopefully they will help new riders avoid whatever happened to you!

It was such a bummer, Pugbuddy! Basically what happened was I was turning left and whilst trying to avoid a manhole cover that is literally 8 inches off the pavement, I was trying to avoid hitting a parked car as well. It was a tight squeeze, but I had done it one other time before, so I had in my head that I could negotiate it. But what can I say? I'm new. I'm inexperienced. I panicked. I fell.

I was so shaken up by the whole thing that when I got myself picked up off the pavement and headed back up the street towards home and saw a couple neighbors changing a tire, I turned off my scooter and walked it back All I could see was myself careening into them. Isn't pitiful?

[apetit]

Bummer! Bring on the gory details (hopefully you and your scoot are fine, of course). Hopefully they will help new riders avoid whatever happened to you!

It was such a bummer, Pugbuddy! Basically what happened was I was turning left and whilst trying to avoid a manhole cover that is literally 8 inches off the pavement, I was trying to avoid hitting a parked car as well. It was a tight squeeze, but I had done it one other time before, so I had in my head that I could negotiate it. But what can I say? I'm new. I'm inexperienced. I panicked. I fell.

I was so shaken up by the whole thing that when I got myself picked up off the pavement and headed back up the street towards home and saw a couple neighbors changing a tire, I turned off my scooter and walked it back All I could see was myself careening into them. Isn't pitiful?

Thanks for the description. After falling during the MSF course, my instructor pointed out that I was looking at the ground - exactly where the bike fell. The scooter will go where you are looking; if that's the ground beneath your feet, well... So, head up, look where you want to go and the scooter will follow. (Most times...)

[pugbuddy]

I was so shaken up by the whole thing that when I got myself picked up off the pavement and headed back up the street towards home and saw a couple neighbors changing a tire, I turned off my scooter and walked it back All I could see was myself careening into them. Isn't pitiful?

Nah, it's normal. I think when we fall we get a real sense of how dangerous our scooting can be. For example we consider the scoot to be a light vehicle but if it falls on or near you, you really feel how heavy it actually is! It's just sobering, in a sense, and it's very normal to become exceptionally cautious when that kind of perspective kicks in.

The good part is that you were not hurt and you'll recover your confidence and be a better rider for the experience.

[audrey]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Italia 150 (2008)

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Yes. I tried to take a turn going too fast. Roughly 1-2pm.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Yes. I was trying to take the right turn quickly because a car was waiting to turn left. I learned to slow down and make the other people wait. Plus my riding skills have improved since then.

4. Was the rider injured?
Bruises on my shoulder, knee and hand. But no scratches because I had on my gear.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Yes. Scratches on the topcase, headlight trim and crash bar.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
No cost as I am just living with the scratches.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
It was my first day of riding so 0 days (maybe 1 hour of riding). I do have a motorcycle permit.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Nope.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
I am not exactly sure. I was going 35 mph and then I slowed down some to take the turn. Maybe 20-25 mph?

11. How far was the rider from home?
About 3-4 miles.

[anndelise]

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Yes. I was trying to take the right turn quickly because a car was waiting to turn left. I learned to slow down and make the other people wait. Plus my riding skills have improved since then.

Similar lesson as mine.

I force myself to allow myself to slow way down (as far as I need to slow down) when making a turn and a vehicle is behind me. I probably drive them nuts though cuz i give them plenty of warning with flashing my brakes at them and then giving myself time to slow down comfortably before making my turn.

And if my mind inserts the vehicle behind me complaining, I respond to my mind back with "well, if I crash while making this turn, that'll slow them down even MORE", heh.

That self-pressure & accommodating-others thing is a bit annoying. I look forward to when it's not so strong or is gone.

Glad you're ok!

[ericalm]

There's been a lot of criticism in other threads of how much members are sounding like broken records when it comes to promoting the MSF Basic Rider Course and use of gear. Same goes for threads expressing concern over the number of new riders taking to the streets. I understand a lot of that criticism has to do with the tone of some of the posts—that's something that could use improvement. But it's hard to argue with the intent and content of those messages after reading this thread.

I don't want to play the blame game, but scanning the posts from this summer's escalation in crash reports (which has paralleled our increase in membership), two patterns become clear:

First, most of the people crashing are new scooterists with little experience and that the large majority of these have not taken the MSF course. Most of these were incidents that may have been avoided if the rider had been more experienced or had received some instruction (though this could be said of almost any crash, to some degree).

Second, most of those who suffered physical injuries were not wearing proper gear to protect the injured body part. This isn't the same as saying everyone who rode without gear got hurt or that if you wear gear you can't be hurt. But I've never seen road burn like those in the photos from an earlier post on someone who crashed while wearing a cordura riding jacket.

As I said, I'm not mentioning these things to hold anyone responsible for their crashes. I'm not trying to say anyone deserved to crash. And I'm not trying to give anyone license to get all sanctimonious in other threads.

My point is simply this: There are reasons the MSF and gear are suggested ad nauseam. This isn't peer pressure or groupthink. Anyone who's sick of hearing about these things should just read the many pages preceding this one.

[hackett]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
2008 Series Italia 150
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Yes, unquestionably. ~2:50 P.M. on Sunday
3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Yes, absolutely. I won't accelerate through a turn if it's the start of an S-curve. My judgment was hindered by heat and fatigue, as this was at the end of a group ride to go get delicious bbq. After we had ridden back into town and ready to head our separate ways, two of us were fielding questions by some geriatric who pretty clearly had nothing better to do than accost strangers with anecdotes about automobile prices half a century prior. He left, and I started to suit up. As I'm ready to ride off, he came back, flagging me down and asking me more questions while I'm sitting in the sun. When I became tired and overheated, I should've stopped and gotten something to drink instead of trying to go "straight" home via the <a href=http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... >twistiest road in the area</a>.
4. Was the rider injured?
Minimally. Bruised right palm and wrist. Scraped left knee. Bruised hip.
4b. What gear was the rider wearing?
FF helmet, which had no impact in the crash. Mesh jacket, which received light abrasion on the left arm. Leather army surplus gloves, which saved the skin on my hands. Jeans, which which shredded at the left hip. Boots looks like a blister that popped where they dragged the ground.
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Scraped paneling. Front wheel twisted, and the left mirror came loose.
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
None. The front wheel twisted back into place, and I'm not about to buy new paneling.
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
One month's experience, to the day. I do have a motorcycle license.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
The beginner's course, but not the advanced.
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes, although I'd say that technically the bank still owns it.
10. How fast was the rider going?
~20-30 mph
11. How far was the rider from home?
3.9 miles

[bunny]

oh man, hackett...that blows! I'm glad you are okay.

[Tysonviolin]

anndelise- I did the same thing. Pulling over to let a car go by I hit gravel too fast and just laid it over. This was quite a surprise and happened very quickly. Now I always slow wayyyy down before performing this maneuver.

Just the Buddy learning curve...

[ericalm]

Bump!

[pugbuddy]

Although I don't have all the details, I want to post this. This is another rider's story in Tulsa. Some odd bits (including the idiot) but a couple of things of note:

(1) the left turner that hit her, didn't see her at all--and he doesn't seem like a bad guy from her story, he probably wasn't looking for a two-wheeler and was just "blind" to her. "Ride like you're invisible!"

(2) if not for the helmet, she thinks she would be dead. 'Nuff said, I think!

It happened at 5:00 ish at 71 & Lyn Lane on Thurs. 7-18-08. I was riding along minding my own business and a SUV turned in front of me into a service station. I couldn't stop in time & T-Boned it.

I don't think they will fix my precious Honda. I got lottts of bumps and brusiness, right wrist is slightly seperated at the joint, a huge blood clot & lots of pulled muscles. The usual stuff when you hit a SUV & land on the pavement. A man looked down at me laying on probably 120 degree pavement and said "wasn't worth saving the gas was it'. What a jerk. I told him it was my hobby.

When the police report didn't show a citation given to the man I left the cop a phone message asked her to call me. She left a message on my phone mail and gave me a speel about it being at her discretion but all my question was not answered. So, I left another message on her recorder. I asked "Is it not against the law to turn left into oncoming traffic(me) and cause bodily injury"? She called & said the same things except that it would have cost the other driver $126.00 and she didn't think he was driving wreckslessly and this would be a learning experience for him. I wonder if he had killed someone if he would have gotten a ticket.

When I was laying on the hop road, I asked "who did this to me"? The man who drove the SUV, said "I did, I am so sorry, I didn't see you". "his statement on the police report is that he was stopped in the center turn lane & then turned in front of me. Wonder what he was looking at if it wasn't traffic. If he hadn't stopped, it probably wouldn't have happened. I was glad that I had a scooter with a lot of stuff in front to take the brunt of the crash. If I hadn't of had on my helmet, I would have died.

If I ride again, it will be a while before I am healed.

[ericalm]

A man looked down at me laying on probably 120 degree pavement and said "wasn't worth saving the gas was it'. What a jerk.

[BuddyRaton]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Neither 1964 Vespa GL
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
I don't think so . ~2:00 P.M. on Sunday
3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Maybe.
This was the soon to be infamous Amerivespa Lookout Mountain Ride. It had been raining and the roads were wet. I was coming down a hill to a stop sign with the rest of the group. Two guys towards the front of the pack went down. I started to brake and fishtailed a little...eased the brakes on and kept gaining speed, braked a little more and down I went.

It was a rough day for everyone. When I stood up the road was so slick that my feet went out from under me. I heard that 12 riders, many with lots of experience went down on that ride so I dont feel too bad

4. Was the rider injured?
Bruised hip.
4b. What gear was the rider wearing?
KBC Flip Front helmet. It hit right on the hinge. It did its job perfectly! Fieldsheer Mesh jacket, torn on the left arm where I landed on the armour. Joe Rocket fabric gloves I did not see any damage to them. Icon Urban Assault Jeans, Small holes at the hip, these have minimal knee protection and no hip pads. Icon Motorhead Boots. A couple of scratches...they did their job perfectly

5. What was the damage to the Vespa?
Front fender bent, scraped left cowling, tore seat cover

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Probably not more than 200-300, and now I can make it MINE!.
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Over 15,000 miles . I have a motorcycle license.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
No
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes, bought it 2 days before.
10. How fast was the rider going?
~10-15mph
11. How far was the rider from home?
~800 miles miles

The damage is really not too bad. It looks like the fender may pop out. The cowl is going to need a little professional body work, but it really did pretty well. The hard part is going to be finding or making the cowl trim.

AMERIVESPA WAS GREAT!!!!

[Scooter Hoot]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Buddy Intl St Tropez
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Not really - about 5PM
3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Could have been avoided had I anticipated stupid people better.
4. Was the rider injured?
Brused shoulder, scraped elbow, but nothing some ice, bandages, and ibuprofen can't fix.
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Headlight knocked out, key broke off in the lock, scrapes
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Don't know yet - probably under 200 if I do most of it myself.
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
About 5 days. I have a permit.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Scheduled to take it about 3 days after the wreck.
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes
10. How fast was the rider going?
About 25 mph
11. How far was the rider from home?
4 miles

Driving down the street when a moron with a leafblower walks right out into the street in front of me. I had all of 20 feet maybe to react. Started by laying on the breaks, but that wasn't fast enough to avoid the guy, tried to turn (helpful hint - you can't turn and break at the same time ... doesn't work so well) and ended up on my side.

I'm just glad I wasn't in my car - given 20 feet of warning, he probably would be smashed on my grill instead of walking away without a scratch.

Chalk another one up to statistics ... close to home, check. Not experienced ... check. Not trained ... well was going to be in 3 days doesn't count ... check. Due to driver error ... kindof - it's possible that I could have dodged him without spilling but certainly not easy with that little amount of warning.

[chuck_theobald]

Never crashed the scooter, but drove my Sportster into a ditch this past Saturday on the outside of a rural left turn. Got hypnotized by the outside shoulder and thought about not making the turn - mistake! I should have re-established concentration and snapped out of it, then slow, re-establish my line, and roll on throttle into the turn. No do-overs, though.

Riding is such a mental exercise, far and away more so than driving a cage. Riding takes skill, but it also take constant vigilance and the correct mindset.

The book "Proficient Motorcycling" makes the point that hard braking is the best way to avoid an obstacle, after looking ahead and avoiding the situation, of course. This is not always possible, though, so I find myself always imagining kids, cats, leafblowiing pedestrians, whatever, coming into my path, then planning for such an occurrence.

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Not our 2006 Orange Buddy 125, thankfully.
1977 Harley Davidson XLCH, black
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Yes. About 4PM
3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Yes. Focus on the line to follow. Look where you want to go. turn that head! It's what it is for! Push toward the turn, let the bike/scooter lean. Avoid mindset like "I'm not going to make this turn."
4. Was the rider injured?
Bruised shoulder, leg. Thank goodness for Tourmaster armoured jacket and good boots. Strained back picking bike up (485 lbs.).
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Both fenders bent, broken rear turn signals, bent shifter peg.
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Don't know yet.
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Riding off and on for several years, both scooters and motorcycles. Fully licensed.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Yes, twice.
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes
10. How fast was the rider going?
About 35-45 mph
11. How far was the rider from home?
~10 miles

[louie]

things fall apart, it's scientific.
a black buddy went down in the same spot as buddyraton. not me, but a new rider. must have been quite oily there as well as steep.

[ericalm]

I heard that 12 riders, many with lots of experience went down on that ride so I dont feel too bad

...

AMERIVESPA WAS GREAT!!!!

You're the happiest crasher ever. Congrats on the new scoot! Pics?

[Rosie]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Buddy 150 St Tropez

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Definitely rider error. Crash occurred around 7 pm.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
I could have avoided the crash if I had been a more experienced rider - it was the night I bought my scooter! (so embarrassing) I did a U-turn on a narrow street, came close to hitting the curb, panicked a little bit, hit the front brake but unintentionally accelerated at the same time, lost control. Man, I felt like an idiot.

4. Was the rider injured?
Yes. Abrasion on elbow (short sleeves), abrasion on knee (wearing pants - though pants weren't ripped), bruise on hip, bruise on thigh.

4b. What gear was the rider wearing?
Helmet, long pants, leather shoes.

5. What was the damage to the Vespa?
Scratched windshield, cracked headlight, scrape on right brake.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
$117

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
I had been riding for just about an hour. I didn't have a permit at the time.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
No.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
2 mph (?)

11. How far was the rider from home?
15 miles.

Wow, my second post and already I'm telling you about the crash I had on my first night! Boy, I learned a lot in that first hour. Since then I have done a lot of reading (very helpful stuff from the Utah driver's license website, also forums and other scooter websites), talked to other drivers, practiced on country roads and parking lots. Looking back, it was crazy to think I could just buy a scooter and ride it home with no experience and no lessons. I guess I was swept up in the excitement of getting a scooter, which I have been wanting for years, and I used poor judgement when I decided to ride it home that night. It ended up going back to the dealership to be repaired (awesome guys at Ecomoto in Salt Lake City).

[louie]

i love rosie the riveter, she's my hero.
welcome and welcome to the learning curve.

[BuddyRaton]

I heard that 12 riders, many with lots of experience went down on that ride so I dont feel too bad

...

AMERIVESPA WAS GREAT!!!!

You're the happiest crasher ever. Congrats on the new scoot! Pics?

I do a lot of semi-pro photography. One time I was shooting radio controlled boat races. It was their big event with people from allover the world racing. These people were as passionate abouttheir RC boatsas we are about scooters.

I was shooting a race when there was a crash, not uncommon in these races. One of the boats was a beautiful 1950's wooden boat. I got some shots of parts inthe air during the crash.

I was talking with the owner when the guy that ran into him came over, apologizing and saying how sorry he was. The old timers response...

"If your afraid of wrecking it don't race it! This is the third time I'll rebuild it"

I learned a lot from that day. Yes I love my scooters but I am not the type to have a museum piece in the garage. I like to ride them! If something happens, as it did...well that kind of goes along with the fun. I was geared up and came out of it in good condition, although my hip is turning all kinds of pretty colors!

[peabody99]

glad you are OK rosie. Hopefully others will learn from what happened to you. If you want some comfort, I am sure if there was a contest to see who crashed the soonest you would not even "win". Seems some people don't make it off the lot.

Sadly a friend of a friend crashed her Buddy w/ in 5 minutes after it was gifted to her. That was in May and last I heard it was still not back from the shop. People should have the scoot delivered, truck it, or have a friend-with-an M drive it home. Then practice in parking lot only. Even better, take the course before even buying the scooter.

[Neptune]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
'06 Black Buddy 125, her name is Sable.

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
No, not rider error; just before 5pm.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
No, at least not by my own volition.

4. Was the rider injured?
Not a scratch.

4b. What gear was the rider wearing?
Nolan FF, axo leather jacket, icon jeans, icon boots, mx gloves.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Cracked rear brake lever, broken left turn signal, cracked headlight trim, gnarled left grip, scraped kick start with center stand wedged up behind it and assorted scratched panels.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Find out tomorrow.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Just under a month and about 500 miles all with permit.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
No.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
<10 mph

11. How far was the rider from home?
10 miles.

OK, story time... On my commute home this afternoon, 20 miles each way. I'm in the right lane slowing down with signal blinking to make a right turn into the gas station when I hear the sound of screeching brakes. Apparently a car had made a left turn onto the road behind me and neglected to notice my brake light. Next thing I know Sable is sliding out from under me...

Sigh...

Rear ended. His bumper was low enough to hit my rear wheel directly and send poor Sable right to the ground, scraping along the way. Somehow I managed to stay on top of the scooter, which at this point was her right side. Pretty sure the leather jacket saved me from an exhaust burn as the heat from it got me on my feet pretty quick. After four seconds of head bowed silence (really? today? really?) I scooped her up and escorted her to safety.

The driver was quite shaken. Luckily we were both empathetic to each others situation. He called the shop for me and arranged a pick up and proceeded to give me a ride home from there.

I'd go on but I have an early bus to catch tomorrow morning so... Although it was a sad day, I'm happy to have gotten the first fall out of the way relatively unscathed and I'm counting the days till I can finish that ride home.

[sobo_buddy]

Thanks to everyone who shared their stories. I spent all day reading this as I could. I am a new rider, only about 100 miles under my belt. I took MSF in July and as I read I definitely heard my instructors voice in my head as I thought about how I would handle many of the situations. I know a lot of people say to take it, but I can't express enough what a great experience it was. In fact they said we can go up and use the course if they aren't in session and I intend to.

Although this post scares the crap out of me, I am still going to keep practicing and riding. I have some gear and need to get some more (armor is a must and I am going out to get it shortly).

Also, what is up with so many St. Tropez crashes, Shep (my St. Tropez's name) and I are going to have to have a talk when I get home.

Anyway, I am a rambler sometimes, so thanks for sharing.

[KRUSTYburger]

Dang BuddyRaton, that Vespa's a BEAUT!!! Glad you're okay!

[esk]

neptune, glad you're okay! hope you get good news from the shop today.

[Tocsik]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
Buddy 150 Pamplona

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Most likely not rider error. 6 pm.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Could have avoided the crash by going extremely slow in this particular turn/intersection. Will go slower next time.

4. Was the rider injured?
Yes. At least two broken ribs (not just cracked!). minor road rash. Other assorted areas of pain/soreness.

4b. What gear was the rider wearing?
Helmet, long pants, armored motorcycle jacket, gloves, regular sneakers.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
Broken headlight bezel. Minor cosmetic scratches. Bent front fender bracket.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
Don't know yet. Probably not much.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Used to ride a motorcycle years ago for about 6 years but new back on a bike. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? Yes. Motorcycle license.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
YES!

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
I don't know. It was a left turn at a "tee" intersection. Maybe 10 mph (?)

11. How far was the rider from home?
about 7 miles.

Man, this is tough. I used to ride street bikes years ago but quit when I was hit by a cager and had a pretty bad injury. Now, ~25 years later, I recently bought a scooter. I waited over 7 weeks for it to arrive and took the MSF course where I was the best rider in the class (not to toot my horn but to make the fact that I am pretty competent on two wheels). I was riding home from the work the very first day I used it to commute when I had the crash. I was warned by the shop about the "waxy" stuff on the new tires from the factory so I was trying to take it easy in turns. Ends up, the turn I made had some ripples in the asphalt and I think the front end must have bounced a bit and when that front wheel bounced with the "waxy" (or whatever) stuff in the tires, the front end just folded up on me.

Beware new tires! I am still in a lot of pain and have not been able to ride my scotter since. Only about 65 miles on it!

[santaliqueur]

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
4. Was the rider injured?
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
10. How fast was the rider going?
11. How far was the rider from home?

1. Buddy 125, Red
2. Yes, crash was due to rider error. Around midnight.
3. Yes, this was an avoidable crash.
4. Yes, the rider was injured. Knee scraped up pretty badly, and a stone punctured rider's hand. There was much blood.
5. Leela's headlight assembly was a little banged up, will likely need replacement. Other minor scrapes as well.
6. Cost of repairs unknown, will likely only be a headlight.
7. About 1 month experience on a scooter. The rider had a permit at the time, and has a license now.
8. The rider had not completed the MSF course, but has completed it since the crash.
9. The rider was the scooter's owner.
10. Going less than 5 MPH, performing a U turn on a piece of road that had much more sand than anticipated.
11. 15 miles from home, and 15 miles from his destination. Hand was extremely bloody, due to piercing about 1/3 of an inch into my palm. Wrapped hand in a dark shirt, and rode through the pain. Hand and knee are still both painful a week after the crash.

I was being tailgated, possibly by a cop, so I turned onto a street, thought I could bang a U turn, and continue on my way. There is lots of construction in this area now, and plenty of unpaved road. I slowed way down when the road turned into dirt, and then accelerated gently when it became asphalt again, but I failed to notice the large patch of sand. Front tire gave out, Leela and I hit the road. Injured left hand and right knee. Leela stayed running, with minimal damage.

I was scheduled to take the MSF course a couple days after that anyway. I passed, and I'm incredibly careful around sand and other slippery surfaces now.

[BuddyRaton]

Beware new tires! I am still in a lot of pain and have not been able to ride my scotter since. Only about 65 miles on it!

Sorry to hear of your spill!

All new tires need to be broken in! I have always heard that it takes at least 100 miles to break in a tire. I usually put the first 100 miles on gently and then continue breaking in for at least another 100 miles before I use them harder.

Heal up quick and get back riding!

[7eregrine]

Glad you're OK.

First red buddy crash. Hope I didn't jinx you mentioning that there hasn't been a red buddy crashed on this board yet.

[Jake]

1. Seafoam 125
2. Yes. 12:15 AM
3. Yes. Keep the centerstand in mind while cornering.
4. A little rash on my arm and knee. Knee is pretty tight.
5. Left side plastics, mirror, center front plastic, and headlight/surrounding (from what I can see so far)
6. $250 deductible, I think.
7. MSF certified, about 7000 miles on a Yamaha FZR 600, and about 650 on the Buddy.
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes
10. How fast was the rider going? Not very, but I guess too fast for that turn.
11. How far was the rider from home? 10-15 miles.

[jmazza]

Sorry to hear about your crash, Jake... glad you are alright and hope parts get in quickly for you.

Can you post a bit more of what you posted in your other thread here so we have a good running record? You said in the other thread you think you hit your center stand and lost balance. That would be good info for this thread... thanks!