Modern Buddy Starting To Suck?!

[DouglasLive]

What if we renamed "General Discussion" as "Buddy Discussion?" I don't know how Eric feels about that, but it's a thought.

BOTH are needed. It's a simple change:

(1) "General Discussion" stays "General Discussion"
(2) A new Forum, titled "Buddy Discussion" is created.

Takes all of five minutes.

[Orange Guy]

[jmazza]

MB NEEDS a LOUNGE and a SEPERATE BUDDY FORUM.
I will not get over it. Gratuitous smiley: )

I'll say it -- the MB moderators don't want to moderate. That's the problem here.

Feel free to ban me.

Awesome. Thanks for that. Incredibly helpful. DouglasLive, have you taken a look at the % of your recent posts that are about this rather than being helpful to the board? I just did. It's enlightening.

Does anyone really think (whether the OP or anyone else) that a thread like this will make the difference? Or would simply more personal responsibility be so much more effective and easier- don't click on NBR posts (and the tags *are* being used so it's pretty darn easy), PM a member if you think he/she is being a jerk (wow what a concept) and in general help keep threads positive? Or, since, as illnoise said, Eric is the one who will make the decisions on forum organization, how about talking to him about it privately?

Are we all THAT new to the Internet?

Carver, I'm really sorry that after all your history here on MB (insert facetious smiley) you suddenly think "MB is starting to suck" but I'm kinda with MikieTaps on this one- does your initial post in this thread count as your first negative one towards pushing you out the door? I don't mean to sound like a jerk but how is this thread going to help? If you really don't like MB or the members, maybe it's not the forum for you. I know the "General" forum would be better off w/o this thread.

Speaking of the General forum, I just took a look a the list of topics on the General forum and you know what? There's a lot of helpful topics now just like there was a year ago. There's more noise sure, but for noise, it's pretty well labeled, i.e. easy to avoid.

All of this has been said before, it's nothing new. But beating the drum of 'we need more forums' in threads such as this isn't going to help. I'm still firmly in the camp that the way MV is organized, without a lounge or NSR forum, works great. We haven't even HAD that much noise over the past week or so.

I need more caffeine in my system. Sorry... much of this is a repeat but man, threads like this are getting tired.

[DouglasLive]

Awesome. Thanks for that. Incredibly helpful. DouglasLive, have you taken a look at the % of your recent posts that are about this rather than being helpful to the board? I just did. It's enlightening.

<snip>

Carver, I'm really sorry that after all your history here on MB (insert facetious smiley) you suddenly think "MB is starting to suck" but I'm kinda with MikieTaps on this one- does your initial post in this thread count as your first negative one towards pushing you out the door? I don't mean to sound like a jerk but how is this thread going to help? If you really don't like MB or the members, maybe it's not the forum for you. I know the "General" forum would be better off w/o this thread.

</snip>

This from a moderator.

'Nuff said.

[jmazza]

Awesome. Thanks for that. Incredibly helpful. DouglasLive, have you taken a look at the % of your recent posts that are about this rather than being helpful to the board? I just did. It's enlightening.

<snip>

Carver, I'm really sorry that after all your history here on MB (insert facetious smiley) you suddenly think "MB is starting to suck" but I'm kinda with MikieTaps on this one- does your initial post in this thread count as your first negative one towards pushing you out the door? I don't mean to sound like a jerk but how is this thread going to help? If you really don't like MB or the members, maybe it's not the forum for you. I know the "General" forum would be better off w/o this thread.

</snip>

This from a moderator.

'Nuff said.

And your point?

I was serious about looking at your post history. I found only a few posts in threads other than these kinds, and snarky comments in other threads about "hard to find Buddy content."

And as for my comments towards the OP, I stand by them as well. It makes no sense to me to be a member somewhere for few months, rack up 20-something posts and then post a thread "Is MB starting to suck." This just might not be the place for him.

[7eregrine]

Can anyone show me one forum (besides the apparent gold standard MV) that doesn't have a lounge/general area??

[pcbikedude]

Eric and moderators, I really don't know why you do this. I know first hand the efforts that it takes to run forum like MB. Then have people whine about it....I would be tempted to close it down.

You are much more patient than I am.

Now, someone lock this discussion and let's all move on and talk about why we are really here, the Buddy (and other scooters too).

[jmazza]

Eric and moderators, I really don't know why you do this.

Well the 75% discount on all Genuine scooters helps!! Also if one of our scooters breaks down they FedEx us a new one flown on the wings of angels and hand carried by golden-haired maidens on a silk pillow. The same day.

KIDDING!!! I only wish...

[DouglasLive]

Eric and moderators, I really don't know why you do this. I know first hand the efforts that it takes to run forum like MB. Then have people whine about it....I would be tempted to close it down.

You are much more patient than I am.

Now, someone lock this discussion and let's all move on and talk about why we are really here, the Buddy (and other scooters too).

Yes, end all discussion.

Did somebody mention "fascism" earlier?

[gt1000]

Does anyone really think (whether the OP or anyone else) that a thread like this will make the difference? Or would simply more personal responsibility be so much more effective and easier- don't click on NBR posts (and the tags *are* being used so it's pretty darn easy), PM a member if you think he/she is being a jerk (wow what a concept) and in general help keep threads positive? Or, since, as illnoise said, Eric is the one who will make the decisions on forum organization, how about talking to him about it privately?

Personal responsibility? What a concept!

I really can't believe there's already another thread about this. Like I said the last time we discussed this, let the mods figure it out. There was no real consensus in the last thread and there was certainly no agreement in the thread that simply pleaded for less ambiguous topic titles. Crafting a simple, descriptive title for your thread would go a long way towards indexing MB. But, if there's a core group of people who sincerely have fun with creative, mysterious or whatever topic titles, who am I to spoil their fun?

I'm a librarian by profession, but MB isn't a library. If the mods agree something is important they'll implement it.

[7eregrine]

Why is everyone getting so upset? It's a discussion, can't we discuss and not argue?
Everyone needs to keep in mind DICUSSIONS like this are started becasue PEOPLE CARE about this site.
Duh.
If it annoys you, don't click it. hehehe

Maybe if we had a lounge for crap like this... er umm.... sorry.

OK, I'll stop now.

[AxeYrCat]

Did those of you vying for a change to the forum structure PM Eric or another Moderator/Admin requesting such a thing? It seems to me that had this been addressed in a more sensible manner, the staff would be much more amenable to your suggestions.

I think given the number of new riders and the wealth of information on this site that having a General Discussion forum where the Buddy is the prime topic of conversation is by far the best way to do it: Otherwise, the newbies (to riding and to the board) won't know whether or not their post should be in General or Buddy, nor will there be much of a sense of whom everyone is if it's divided into a technical/social scheme.



But I'm apparently largely responsible for MB's 'Starting to suck', so I should prolly STFU.

[pcbikedude]

Well the 75% discount on all Genuine scooters helps!! Also if one of our scooters breaks down they FedEx us a new one flown on the wings of angels and hand carried by golden-haired maidens on a silk pillow. The same day.

KIDDING!!! I only wish...

If that was the case, you would have a garage full of Black Cats in various states of de-cat-ification!

[jmazza]

Well the 75% discount on all Genuine scooters helps!! Also if one of our scooters breaks down they FedEx us a new one flown on the wings of angels and hand carried by golden-haired maidens on a silk pillow. The same day.

KIDDING!!! I only wish...

If that was the case, you would have a garage full of Black Cats in various states of de-cat-ification!

Oh well actually yeah when I signed on I got 3 Black Cats the next day.

[DennisD]

I've read through this entire thread and unless I missed it somewhere have not seen "diverse" or "diversity" used one time.

[anndelise]

I've read through this entire thread and unless I missed it somewhere have not seen "diverse" or "diversity" used one time.

odd, i've seen those words twice now..

[UXO]

"I'll try to act a bit more mature next time I visit, but I can't guarantee anything. " -- To many of us have tried

[ericalm]

Those who say it may be confusing to newcomers have a point. This is why we probably should have never split off the other models to begin with. So, tell you what, we're going to do what ModernVespa does and lump all models and nonspecific topics of all sorts into a single forum. The only model with a separate space there is the MP3. Their General Discussions include all other modern Piaggios, Vespas and Aprilias and a growing number of posts regarding vintage models. And the only thing mentioned on the site's front page? Vespa. Owners of other models somehow know where to go. Like magic. MV encompasses many more models than our site does, for sure.

And you know what? The members appreciate the serendipity, the learning and sense of discovery that comes with seeing and reading posts about topics they may not have gravitated towards otherwise. I, myself, may have been disinclined to read a tech forum because I felt I was too non-technical. Instead, I learned much more about all kinds of scooters and how they work than I would have otherwise.

They also appreciate the sense of community that comes from having this all together. None of what I already see here: members in the Blur and Rattler etc. forums who I never see post to other forums. They have their place and stick to it.

Yet somehow, no one at MV—a much larger site than ours—complains about it. They certainly don't devote several threads to it. That model must work very well. It is proven successful.

So, go look at the front page of ModernVespa (substitute Stella for MP3), because that's what MB will soon look like.

[Texas Tornado]

http://ubuntuforums.org/ Community Cafe

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/ Open Talk

http://www.nascarforums.org/ Off - Topic

http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/ Just for Fun

http://www.scootertrap.com/forum/ ScooterTrap Cafe
Note: they also have a category for: General Scooter Chatter
Post Any Scooter Related Stuff Here

The list goes on and on.. Please take a look mods.

[Texas Tornado]

And you know what? The members appreciate the serendipity, the learning and sense of discovery that comes with seeing and reading posts about topics they may not have gravitated towards otherwise. I, myself, may have been disinclined to read a tech forum because I felt I was too non-technical. Instead, I learned much more about all kinds of scooters and how they work than I would have otherwise.

A library would be serendipity without a card catalog too, however the card catalog has proven itself too. FWIW
Ask GT1000 the librarian.

[7eregrine]

We are not ModernVespa. Stop comparing this site to that one when every other forum (thanks Tornado) does it the other way. Just because we spun off doesn't mean we need (or should) emulate them.

Still waiting for one example of someone running a forum without a lounge...

Rattler people stick to their own forum? And you really think they would avoid a 'lounge'? Really?
They don't come to this forum because they think it is buddy related.
This forum breeds cliques in its current incarnation...

[ericalm]

These types of navel-gazing threads certainly do not make me inclined to change much of anything. Some members have put together some well-reasoned suggestions for restructuring the forum and PM'd them to me. I'm much more likely to take that into consideration than someone repeating their complaints over and over again because they still haven't gotten what they want.

Many of you have already made your feelings known about this—many times over. Thank you, you have been heard.

The Mods and I take this stuff seriously and don't make any changes without considering the repercussions. We want this to remain as good a forum as it has been and become even better.

But, in the end, this is just a forum, not "life." If any of this stuff ruins your day or keeps you up at night, you're taking it way too damn seriously. If it doesn't, then it's time to stop acting like it does. So get a little perspective, chill out, and learn to deal with things in life that may not be exactly the way you like them or that may not go the way you want. You're obviously here because there's something you like about the forum. Let's try to keep it that way for the current members and newcomers.

[loodieboy]

Okay, well, as a noob - both to this forum and the scooter world (hell, my wife and I are still a month away from delivery of our buddy) I have to say that I really enjoy this place (even more than typing "scooter accident" into Youtube). It's not just the tips and technical info I'm after. I hope to find some sense of the culture (maybe cult) of the scooter. At least, I'd like to believe there is one. And if it includes a little chaos, a little dissent, and more than a little diversity - all the better. As seasoned members of the scooter community (at least most of you seem to be), you'd be surprised at what a candy store this place is for newcomers. Remember when you started out? You just can't get enough. Ride on, rage on, opine on, advise on, preach on, and kill zombies all you want. My only request - more Goldwing wheelie pics.

[illnoise]

Did somebody mention "fascism" earlier?

That was me. This is a benevolent dictatorship. When we turn fascist, you'll be the first to know.

Fascism is a reactionary authoritarian movement (often led by a small but vocal minority) concerned with preventing cultural decline. aka "Modern Buddy Starting To Suck?!"

Seriously, the same three or five people complain about this over and over, and the other hundreds of members are perfectly happy with things the way they are.

If running a forum is so easy, try it. I don't want to be an a**hole about it, but while it's in Eric's best interest to create a forum people enjoy, he's under no obligation to please anyone but himeself. That's brash but true. Most members enjoy this forum and find it useful, if you're just so put out by the drudgery of dealing with it, leave and find another one or start your own. I'm not even saying that to be mean. This list was started for the same reason. Most lists were. If you can do it better, go for it.

Bb.

[thecarver61]

7eregrine, you are da bomb! Right on! Some questions are not allowed here. Mine certainly isn't. I posted it because I give a crap. The bile that resulted confirms my suspicions. I wished that people would stop using this as their personal area to beat up others verbally. Maybe they could go to therapy instead? I'll be the one actually riding instead of talking about it. I'm outta here.

[lobsterman]

A library would be serendipity without a card catalog too, however the card catalog has proven itself too.

The "card catalog" would probably not have been implemented in quite the same way if the "Search" function had been so readily available to those libraries at the time. As it is online catalogs with links and search capabilities have largely replaced the cards now.

Still waiting for one example of someone running a forum without a lounge...

No reason why we need to emulate (or not emulate) any another forum here.

If you've told Eric and the mods what you'd like to see and they disagree, let it go.

Personally I would like to see MB get back to being about scooters in general and the Buddy in particular. I learned a lot from the folks here and I appreciate it. We don't need to organize it to death, and we don't need a lounge, and we don't need an "ATGATT Free Zone", and we don't need to get bent out of shape if somebody disagrees with our choices or suggest it might be best or even just OK to choose differently.

What I really would like most wouldn't require a single change to the forum. I'd like to see more frequent use of the Search function before asking the basic questions everybody has when they first discover this forum. But that's just me.

[illnoise]

7eregrine, you are da bomb! Right on! Some questions are not allowed here. Mine certainly isn't. I posted it because I give a crap. The bile that resulted confirms my suspicions. I wished that people would stop using this as their personal area to beat up others verbally. Maybe they could go to therapy instead? I'll be the one actually riding instead of talking about it. I'm outta here.

So you responded to complaining by… complaining more? Then you asked a question, it was answered, and you didn't like the answer so you complained more. Then even in this post, you say you're sick of people complaining and "beating up others" then tell us we need therapy and question our riding habits? You're a true hero. Good riddance.

Bb.

[thecarver61]

Asshole!

[hackett]

All I know is something definitely smells like troll in this thread. I'm not pointing fingers or anything, but there is the seriously RANK stink of troll in here.

[paige]

a**hole!

Wow, unclear on the concept. Go foul someone elses sandbox.

[UXO]

a**hole!

"I'll try to act a bit more mature next time I visit, but I can't guarantee anything." -- thecarver61

I'm not keeping track but I believe you can do better, I really do.

You know, I laugh at some of this nonsense and bellyaching about forum format but if I put in the time that the people who run this do I would be past my limit.

UXO

[ericalm]

a**hole!

Hey! The word replacements I installed yesterday are working! I even got it when I wrote frak in a message to the mods. It's very egalitarian like that.

[illnoise]

I typed the asterisks in my post, I can't speak for TheCarver.

[ericalm]

All I know is something definitely smells like troll in this thread. I'm not pointing fingers or anything, but there is the seriously RANK stink of troll in here.

I thought so too but can't make a determination based on IP addresses.

[polianarchy]

So, who are we going to attack next? Maybe old people with mobility scooters? How about non-wavers? Or perhaps people that don't wear the same gear as I do? Vespa owners?
I've heard alot about how great MB forums are. I thought so myself but lately have been questioning that idea. I'm about 2 negative topics away from ditching MB.

Please don't let the internet hit you on the @$$ on your way out.

[MarsR]

How about a forum for those of us that like to modify and improve performance on our scooters?

I can (sort of) understand Eric's reluctance to add more forums, especiallly since there is so much history in the forums as they exist now. Also, I am finding the [NSR] and [NBR] tags to be quite helpful. So how about just taking that a step farther. Start using more descriptive tags in your subject lines. For example:

[BR] or [BUDDY] = Buddy Related topic
[50cc] = 50cc related topic
[MODS] = Modifications related topic
[GEAR]
[MAINT]
etc.

This keeps everything in the General Discussions forum, but makes it easier to pick and choose what you want to read. Maybe one day if we get enough of a certain tag it can be moved to its own forum.

[illnoise]

This keeps everything in the General Discussions forum, but makes it easier to pick and choose what you want to read. Maybe one day if we get enough of a certain tag it can be moved to its own forum.

AND it'd make it a lot easier to move those topics to these hypothetical new forums when/if the time is right.

Again, I've offered suggestions of ways to help convince us, but they involve proactive effort, cooperation, and discussion rather than just demanding the moderators shuffle the whole site around to meet one person's needs.

Thanks for the good suggestion, Mars. Proof that it's a lot easier to get stuff done with your head rather than with your mouth or fists.

Bb.

[KCScooterDude]

Ah, how about not reading threads you might find negative? If Vespa and Snobs is in the thread header, you might want to steer clear.

Anyway, I've found the quickest way to hear some positive comments about a subject is post something that a member of that group or somebody who has strong feelings about the subject feels is negative.

People here at MB are amazingly well behaved and if you get out of line somebody will call you on it.

[standup]

[2T] 2 stroke

[4T] 4 stroke

[AC] air-cooled

[WC] water-cooled

[RB] red buddy

[125cc]

[150cc]

[funny]

[notfunny]

[CR] crash related

[MarkTur]

That is BEAUTIFUL!!!!

Here's my $0.02....if you don't like what you're reading ON A PARTICULAR THREAD, then stop reading it. It doesn't mean the whole forum fell apart. If you want to fight for a cause, there's plenty of IMPORTANT ones out there for you, but don't trash this forum. It's really great. PERIOD.

Yes, we all have Buddy's here, or are interested in getting one, and yes, people will make off-topic questions/statements here because we're all tied together by our common interest in scooting, particularly with Buddy's. I feel like you are all my friends, and I can be a big boy and agree/disagree on topics without saying "This forum stinks, and I'm going to take my toys and hang out elsewhere!". And as long as people aren't posting "Hate" posts, things are fine here.

A positive suggestion:
New Categories:

• Tips and Tricks
  Technical Q&A
  Adventures on the Road
  and yes, OFF TOPIC POSTS

That should really solve everyone's issues, I think.

For the whiners out there, you're all still welcome, too. Wipe away your tears, and be a positive contributor.

Remember, and this is totally free advice: If you see a thread that doesn't appeal to you, DON'T READ IT.

Otay, I'm done.

[ericalm]

That is BEAUTIFUL!!!!

And, I say with all humility, rather prescient.

[charlie55]

While I respect the mods' opinions on forum fragmentation, I would respectfully disagree with the parallels drawn with ModernVespa. In my opinion, comparing Genuine products to Vespas in terms of owner forums is a case of apples and oranges for one primary reason: support and documentation.

Vespas have been around since the dawn of time, and there are numerous resources available both in print and online for those desiring maintenance/repair/modification information. Genuine products, as we all know, do not have that history. I can only speak in terms of the Blur, but trying to find any sort of technical info for that model is like pulling teeth. You basically have a choice of those pathetically amateurish and gibberish-laden owner and service manuals (the latter of which is really for the PGO G-MAX) or having to fall back on your dealer (who, in my case, couldn't find his own butt with a map, compass, GPS, and St. Bernard). So, I rely heavily on the Sons of Blur here at MB for technical help.

From what I've read in the Buddy/General Discussion area, it would appear that the situation is pretty much the same with Buddies. If you're fortunate enough to have a really good dealer, then it's no big deal. But if you need to use MB as a technical resource, it'd probably be a lot easier if the Buddy got it's own separate discussion area that was a bit more technical in nature.

Not trying to step on the toes of, or preach to you Buddy folks, just opining.

Regards,

Charlie55

[7eregrine]

No reason why we need to emulate (or not emulate) any another forum here.

Then tell Eric to stop comparing us to MV.

If you've told Eric and the mods what you'd like to see and they disagree, let it go.

It's gone. I've more then said my piece.

[ScootLemont]

But, in the end, this is just a forum, not "life." If any of this stuff ruins your day or keeps you up at night, you're taking it way too damn seriously. If it doesn't, then it's time to stop acting like it does. So get a little perspective, chill out, and learn to deal with things in life that may not be exactly the way you like them or that may not go the way you want. You're obviously here because there's something you like about the forum. Let's try to keep it that way for the current members and newcomers.

Well put.
For what its worth, I thought a buddy only forum would be good just so the buddy people dont have to weed through all the other stuff.
If its not an issue for them, great.
Really... I am going to go RIDE MY SCOOTER and try to find a longer town name for the Scavenger Hunt
topic6999.html
That will be more fun than this.
But first I have to go post up a reply to the new guy who thinks the buddy owners manual could be better & wants to know what people think.
topic7120.html

[MarkTur]

You all are nuts....

Why do you care so much about what people post? (as long as it's not Hateful stuff)

How is this really hurting your life?

Maybe you're spending TOO MUCH TIME HERE? If it's becoming this hard for you, then take a day off...jeez.

And BTW, I was the one who started the Dreaded Vespa thread...maybe we should chop off my fingers and revoke my posting priviledges? Puh-leeeeeze.

C'mon guys and girls, stop being such control freaks!!!! This is a forum, and we're not re-writing the Declaration of Independance.

Most people are here because they need support for their hobby and Buddy. That means they may ask a repeat question. Get over it.

[gt1000]

A library would be serendipity without a card catalog too, however the card catalog has proven itself too. FWIW Smile
Ask GT1000 the librarian.

And you were last in a library when? 1985? Sorry, couldn't resist yanking your chain a tiny bit.

A good library can still be a place where serendipity is designed into all the planning, organizing and indexing. Discovery is a wonderful thing. But so is the ability to define your search, execute it well and have all your questions asked and answered.

There are other librarians about on this forum and, if memory serves, one of the mods is a librarian. I'd hazard a guess that if this forum wanted to become indexed and more organized, the talent already exists to make it so. That's why I'm saying we should just let the mods do their jobs. After 2 years on and off of visiting here, I'm convinced they're very good at what they do.

They're also quite a bit more "forgiving" (for lack of a better word) than Jess. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it's not so good. It is what it is. Which is pretty damned good by forum standards.

[ericalm]

No reason why we need to emulate (or not emulate) any another forum here.

Then tell Eric to stop comparing us to MV.

I'll make any comparisons I damn well please. You don't want me comparing MB to MV but then whine about how every other forum has an OT section? Look, I'm trying to be patient here, but it's getting pretty difficult. I've overindulged the complainers here, allowed everyone to have their say several times over and allowed people to insult the moderators, who get nothing in return for the hours they devote to upkeep of the forum. Upkeep that's becoming increasingly difficult.

People want to complain about a situation that's not dire or even all that serious, bitch about how things are negative, then continue to poison the atmosphere by spreading more negativity until they get what they want. That's hypocritical, tiresome and I'm pretty damn sick of it. I'm not going to let a bunch of squeaky wheels drive this thing into the ground, and I'm not going to let a bunch of whiners bully us into giving them what they want.

Change will come, but it will not come because a few individuals aren't happy with the status quo and are effectively sabotaging things as a result. Continuing in this vein is more damaging to the forum than any lack of organization. I'm not tolerating it any longer.

If anyone has any new and constructive input, I will gladly discuss it over PM. I think those who have messaged me with suggestions have found me to be open and willing to discuss them. As far as this topic goes in the public forum, it's over.

This is the way MB is at present. Period.

If you sincerely feel that the fact that a bunch of posts on MB get piled into a single section is such a grave problem that you need to continue to provoke me and the moderators, you're free to leave so the rest of us can continue to try to improve the forum. If you'd like to continue discussing what brings us together: our love of scooters, riding, and the community that comes from that, you're welcome to stay. We're happy to have you.