Does Buddy 150cc meet US DOT & EPA standards?

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

Moderator: Modern Buddy Staff

Post Reply
User avatar
Portland_Rider
Member
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:32 am
Location: Free Territory of the Pacific Northwest (Kalifornia refugee)

Does Buddy 150cc meet US DOT & EPA standards?

Post by Portland_Rider »

Hello All,

I'm new to the scooter community and I need some help. Is the 2008 Buddy 150 street legal meeting federal standards?

According to the Oregon DMV cycle manual and at the state's website: to be legal on pubic roads, cycles need to meet the DOT's vehicle design safety and equipment requirements and US EPA emission standards. It also states that the manufacturer's certificate of origin must certify that the vehicle meets US DOT Standards and have a vin number. I've spoken with two reps at the DMV office and they have confirmed that it should state such on the certificate of origin.

While my PGO Genuine Scooter certificate has a vin number, it does not mention anything about meeting US DOT Standards (or anything about EPA standards either).

With all the Buddys that I see being around town and Genuine being a large reputable company, I'm surprised not to see that information on my Certificate.

I have not yet taken physical possession of the Buddy 150 and am a bit concerned.

Any insight and advice here is appreciated!

-Portland Rider
User avatar
MikieTaps
Member
Posts: 2462
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 3:38 am
Location: Bellevue WA "the dirty eastside"
Contact:

Post by MikieTaps »

Yes it is Legal. :D

Welcome to the forum!
Image
Image
User avatar
ericalm
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Post by ericalm »

Pretty much anything imported on a large scale by a reputable company is going to meet emissions standards. The ones that don't are the illegal or grey market imports that are usually sold online, via Craigslist or in the parking lot behind a bar. They look exactly like a lot of legal scooters on the market, but they're ridiculously inexpensive, you won't be able to get them registered and they'll have a "warranty" not worth the paper it's printed on. If you get it in writing. There are a lot of these out there, but you're not going to find them in a nice storefront dealership.

(I'm not even referring to the more familiar Chinese scoots. Those are usually legal! I'm talking about the $800 ones sold out of a van in the gas station parking lot.)
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
User avatar
MikieTaps
Member
Posts: 2462
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 3:38 am
Location: Bellevue WA "the dirty eastside"
Contact:

Post by MikieTaps »

Genuine Scooter Co. Official Dealers are frequently tied in with other large manufacturer dealers. My dealer is Ducati Seattle. I know many places the sell Honda, Yamaha... etc... BIG companies. They wouldnt sell illegal product and risk their reputation...
Image
Image
User avatar
illnoise
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Post by illnoise »

Even some of the better-known chinese brands tend to share paperwork between models and use other companies' testing to get their bikes in, it's all a little shady. But you can be sure that Genuine is above that.

It really comes down to "is my DMV going to recognize and accept my paperwork" and the answer for genuine is "yes." Now that New Jersey is straightened out, ha. And unless you want a Stella in California.

Bb.
2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
User avatar
Dooglas
Moderator
Posts: 4368
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:17 am
Location: Oregon City, OR

Post by Dooglas »

illnoise wrote: It really comes down to "is my DMV going to recognize and accept my paperwork" and the answer for Genuine is "yes."
I think illnoise has this one just right. If the question is whether Oregon DMV accepts the documentation from Genuine and issues an Oregon registration and title, the answer is certainly yes. (many of us can verify this for you based on personal experience)

(Hm, I wonder what the documentation on all those Hyundai's looks like? Oh, it is probably okay.)
User avatar
Kaos
Member
Posts: 4892
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Post by Kaos »

Yes, its street legal in Oregon. I'm one of those Buddy riders you've seen around Portland, and had no problems at all registering and licensing my Buddy. :) Infact I'm the proud owner of the first tangerine Buddy in the state!
User avatar
sbebenelli
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:03 pm
Location: Burlington, Iowa

Post by sbebenelli »

Does it meet EPA standards once you drill the vent hole in the gas cap? You know that hole that overrides the emissions device that was put on for a reason. :P
User avatar
ericalm
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Post by ericalm »

sbebenelli wrote:Does it meet EPA standards once you drill the vent hole in the gas cap? You know that hole that overrides the emissions device that was put on for a reason. :P
That doesn't exactly override the emissions… disconnecting evap hoses and such certainly does, though. Aren't the replacement OEM gas caps vented? I haven't seen one yet.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
User avatar
Kaos
Member
Posts: 4892
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Post by Kaos »

Aren't the replacement OEM gas caps vented? I haven't seen one yet.
Yep. I've got one, and they're drilled just like the ones that people here have done.
User avatar
ericalm
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Post by ericalm »

Kaos wrote:
Aren't the replacement OEM gas caps vented? I haven't seen one yet.
Yep. I've got one, and they're drilled just like the ones that people here have done.
So I'm going to say it's probably legal.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
Sparky
Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 3:14 am
Location: Montreal, QC

Post by Sparky »

And if it's illegal, just tell them there's this infestation of metal-eating termites going around. Damn buggers are just immune to spraying. ;)
User avatar
sbebenelli
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:03 pm
Location: Burlington, Iowa

Post by sbebenelli »

ericalm wrote: That doesn't exactly override the emissions… disconnecting evap hoses and such certainly does, though. Aren't the replacement OEM gas caps vented? I haven't seen one yet.
Once the scooter has a vented gas cap then it overrides the charcoal canister that is on the scooter. The charcoal canister does nothing at this point. You might as well completely remove it. What the charcoal canister does is allow the fuel tank to be closed so to speak so no fuel vapors escape like it would if the tank was vented. The fumes go through the charcoal and it removes any gasses that would otherwise escape into the air.

An example would be if you put some gas in a pan and leave it in the sun, after awhile the gas would evaporate. In other words it polluted the air. It didn't just disappear. Vented fuel systems do the same thing.

This is why cars have EVAP systems that are monitored by the computer. Leave the gas cap off of a newer car and it'll kick the check engine light on. Any state that has emissions testing will not pass a vehicle that has a check engine light on.

I have no idea if a scooter has to meet any emission standards or not because I live in a state that doesn't have emissions testing. But I do know when you add a vented gas cap to your Buddy then it isn't as "clean" as it was before you did it.
User avatar
ericalm
Site Admin
Posts: 16842
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Post by ericalm »

All new internal combustion vehicles t the country for legal sale have to pass emissions standards. CA has the most restrictive standards in the country for emissions control and recovery systems. If the vented cap passes muster here, I'm somewhat confident that it doesn't completely undermine all of the controls required by the state (which are not required by the other 49, BTW, but which have now been implemented in most vehicles other than the Stella, heh). That said, it's possible that the scoot tested here may not have had that cap, so… I'll leave it at that…
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
User avatar
sbebenelli
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:03 pm
Location: Burlington, Iowa

Post by sbebenelli »

ericalm wrote:All new internal combustion vehicles t the country for legal sale have to pass emissions standards. CA has the most restrictive standards in the country for emissions control and recovery systems. If the vented cap passes muster here, I'm somewhat confident that it doesn't completely undermine all of the controls required by the state (which are not required by the other 49, BTW, but which have now been implemented in most vehicles other than the Stella, heh). That said, it's possible that the scoot tested here may not have had that cap, so… I'll leave it at that…
I feel Genuine didn't put the EVAP system on for the fun of it as this did nothing but add to the production cost. They put it on so they could import them to the US. I'm willing to bet when the scooter was tested for emissions it didn't have a vented gas cap as these type tests I would assume had to be done months ago before they started venting the tank.

When the vapor lock problem started to show up and they choose to fix it the way they did I thought it was a cobble fix instead if really fixing the problem. What if I really want what's best for the environment and choose the buddy because it had a sealed fuel tank because these are the type of things I want as a consumer? Doesn't Genuine owe it to me their customer to have everything that was on the scooter when I bought it still operational 2 months later?

This is no different than if lets say the seat latch caused some sort of safety issue so they choose to have all seat secured so they wouldn't open because it was cheaper for them to do it that way. Would the consumer put up with that? No.

That said I have been very happy with my Italia. I just found it strange they choose to not really fix the actual problem. It also makes me wonder how in the world they did not know this was going to be a problem. Any type of testing would've showed them this was going to happen.
User avatar
Portland_Rider
Member
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:32 am
Location: Free Territory of the Pacific Northwest (Kalifornia refugee)

Thank you fellow Riders! Cool to be here with you.

Post by Portland_Rider »

Hi All,

I really appreciate everyone responding to me about my concern over the Buddy 150 being street legal. I admit, it was never logical as there are so many Buddys on the street and I was going through a legit retail dealer.

Get this for how great and human service is at Genuine: My dealer rep wasn't sure how to answer my question so he called Genuine and put me on the phone with Genuine's General Manager! I doubt that will ever happen with most other companies.

The confusion over being street legal was due to a mix of some folks at the DMV being well confused, the DMVs written communications, and some uninformed humans at the dealer regarding the DOT and EPA regs being met. I'm also sometimes too much into details for my own good 8) It turns out that the Buddy 150 has the US required EPA and DOT information labeled in three places on the scooter.

I'm looking forward to getting delivery next week. My first scooter!!

Anyone in Portland like to show me around as I'm also new to Portland and need to get some rider learning in before I take the physical riding test? I got my motorcycle permit yesterday.

Portland Rider
Post Reply