Children Safety Apparel

paulferree · Post by **paulferree** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:56 am

I have a 5 year old that loves riding with me on my new buddy. I was wondering if there are some protective jackets, helmets, pants, and shoes, or any mix.

Any general safety tips for riding with children? What are the laws for having him ride with me?

Thanks!

Paul

OKBubbles · Post by **OKBubbles** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:11 am

According to pages 32 and 33 of the Oklahoma Motorcycle Operator's Manual (given to me to study before taking my motorcycle endorsement test):

"Equipment should include:
- Footrests -- for the passenger. Firm footing prevents your passenger from falling off and pulling you off, too.
- Protective equipment - the same protective gear recommended for operators."

The book recommends a helmet, but Oklahoma does NOT have a helmet law. They DO require eye protection. They also advise jacket, pants, boots and gloves. I've seen kid-sized gear at Honda of Tulsa, mostly designed for motocross and such. The hurdle for you and your little guy might be the footrest issue. Are his 5 year-old legs long enough to reach?

Post by **jmazza** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:01 am

Moved to general discussion...

Some of the same places that sell gear for adults have gear for children as well:

http://motorcyclesuperstore.com/1/3/DV/ ... -Gear.aspx

I believe many states have that law that any passenger must be able to touch the footrests/floorboard.

scooterdyke · Post by **scooterdyke** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:23 pm

YIKES!!!!!!!!! Personally, I would NEVER have a child on a scooter with me. I went down a few weeks ago, turning on gravel. I was only doing about 15 mph, but I got scraped up pretty good! I couldn't even imagine what would have happened if I had a 5 year old on with me!

sbebenelli · Post by **sbebenelli** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:35 pm

scooterdyke wrote:YIKES!!!!!!!!! Personally, I would NEVER have a child on a scooter with me. I went down a few weeks ago, turning on gravel. I was only doing about 15 mph, but I got scraped up pretty good! I couldn't even imagine what would have happened if I had a 5 year old on with me!

I wouldn't either. I have a 12 year old that I choose not to let ride. I just don't feel comfortable. My personal opinion of coarse.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:47 pm

Another place to get gear is: http://www.bobscycle.com/page.cfm/children.html
Great service and good prices!

We have the same law here in Rhode Island...the passenger's feet must be able to rest on the footpegs. There is no age requirement. Additionally, although the rider is not required to wear a helmet, the passenger must wear a helmet, so I would double-check in OK.

I see a father and son on a motorcycle almost every morning on my commute and the son wears a leather jacket, boots and a full-face helmet. He always looks like he is having a blast and doesn't mind going to school!

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:07 pm

Good thing we live in the United States and have the freedom of choice.

jperkins · Post by **jperkins** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:35 pm

thank you dave.....for crying out loud, the guy asks for equipment advice he did not solicite your parental opinions. We really need to quit judging on this site about peoples saftey choices.

sbebenelli · Post by **sbebenelli** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:43 pm

jperkins wrote:thank you dave.....for crying out loud, the guy asks for equipment advice he did not solicite your parental opinions. We really need to quit judging on this site about peoples saftey choices.

Good thing we live in the United States and have the freedom of speech.

Post by **jmazza** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:57 pm

The OP actually DID ask for safety tips, which could include "I really wouldn't do it because of the risks involved." We have a lot of new riders here who may not consider such things so I think it's very fair to post something saying, "I wouldn't do it" in a thread like this.

Perhaps scooterdyke's reply was a little over excited, but with a recent crash, I can understand why.

No one is here at mb.com to be judgmental or anything like that, and no one is doing it in this thread.. Everyone's just offering helpful opinions.

So maybe chill on the invoking of freedom of choice and speech?

jperkins · Post by **jperkins** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:15 pm

I appologize for my snappy response, but I fell a little responsible for this guy being on the board and dont want to see him run off.

I sold him the buddy, and I know how excited he was to ride with his son.

I also spent alot of time hyping how great MB and am really glad how quick he joined us.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:24 pm

I also wanted to add this cool thing, although I don't think it would work with a Buddy: http://tinyurl.com/69fj7u

I've ridden around the neighborhood with a neighbor's 7-year old and our mantra is "both hands on the belly, both hands on the belly". She knows she has to hold on tight and shouldn't take a hand off my waist to point at something (which would throw off our balance). We have a lot of fun! But then again, I've been riding for years and feel comfortable riding. You may want to get some miles under your belt before you try riding with a passenger.

Post by **jmazza** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:36 pm

jperkins wrote:I appologize for my snappy response, but I fell a little responsible for this guy being on the board and dont want to see him run off.

I sold him the buddy, and I know how excited he was to ride with his son.

I also spent alot of time hyping how great MB and am really glad how quick he joined us.

nah, you're fine (everyone really is)... but like I said, when the "glad we have freedom of..." replies start it can be a quick slope downward so I thought I'd do the friendly mod thing that all the others do so well and help us stay a big happy family.

Group hug.

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:09 pm

When my oldest was just a small child, I got her all the riding gear and sat her on the back of the Harley. We had just hit the freeway when I felt her helmet hit me in the back! I SLOWLY pulled over and found her asleep! No more kids on bikes, I decided. A few months later I read an article about carrying kids on bikes. They mentioned this product.

http://www.childridingbelt.com/engprod.htm

I got one. All three of my kids loved riding after that. My daughter is riding the Buddy and my son has a dirt bike. You may create a monster if you introduce them to scooters at an early age.

You have been warned.

BTW, California law requires a seat and footpegs for a passenger, but nowhere does it say they have to reach the pegs.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:43 pm

olhogrider wrote:BTW, California law requires a seat and footpegs for a passenger, but nowhere does it say they have to reach the pegs.

Actually, it does say that.

Passengers: Equipment and Usage

27800. It is unlawful for a driver of a motorcycle or a motorized bicycle to carry any other person thereon, except on a seat securely fastened to the machine at the rear of the driver and provided with footrests, or in a sidecar attached to a motorcycle and designed for the purpose of carrying a passenger. Every passenger on a motorcycle or a motorized bicycle shall keep his feet on the footrests while such vehicle is in motion.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27800.htm

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:40 pm

That's what I get for using the handbook instead of the vehicle code. I should know better.

MarkTur · Post by **MarkTur** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:52 pm

sbebenelli wrote:
scooterdyke wrote:YIKES!!!!!!!!! Personally, I would NEVER have a child on a scooter with me. I went down a few weeks ago, turning on gravel. I was only doing about 15 mph, but I got scraped up pretty good! I couldn't even imagine what would have happened if I had a 5 year old on with me!
I wouldn't either. I have a 12 year old that I choose not to let ride. I just don't feel comfortable. My personal opinion of coarse.

Me too, although I'm guilty of putting him on the back of a scooter in Key West while on vacation...without a helmet. OMG, that was stupid....but I never exceeded 15mph - you really can't go any faster because there's a stop sign or red light on every corner of Duvall street. I would never put him on "around town" where I live....Key West is special for bicycles and scoots.

Anyway...I only have one kid, and I'd never ever forgive myself if something bad happened.

curlyred · Post by **curlyred** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:28 am

I found kids leather jackets and chaps at http://realbikers.com/

The owner was really nice and helpful when I bought my kids jackets and chaps. Walked me through the measurements and everything. So I recommend him to anybody who asks. The merchandise is all full grain leather, good quality stuff and the price is right.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:41 am

I am not a child development expert, but keep in mind a 5 year old has different fine and gross motor skills then older children and grownups.
I guess this could affect outcomes when riding. Gosh forbid if something happened it would be bad enough having to deal with any pain caused, let alone, the possibility that the "authorites" would further question ones judgment for riding with a wee one.

I am curious at what age kids start riding dirt bikes and such. At that point maybe they would have the skills to ride as a passenger in a lower risk enviroment. Of course regardless of the parents opinion about gear, the child should be padded like hell.

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:07 am

peabody99 wrote: I am curious at what age kids start riding dirt bikes and such. At that point maybe they would have the skills to ride as a passenger in a lower risk enviroment. Of course regardless of the parents opinion about gear, the child should be padded like hell.

I have seen tiny kids on dirt bikes with training wheels on them

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:13 am

http://www.uk.vespa.com/en_UK/vespa/acc ... fault.aspx

Go to GTS » Saddles
£150

Probably not legal in any state or DOT-approved. Use at your own risk (or your kid's).

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:16 am

I can't see how it would be illegal. The restraint harness I mentioned straps the kid to you. This thin looks like it just keeps them from sliding off. As long as you are not attaching them to the scooter you should be ok. The stirrups should suffice for the footpeg requirement. Even many adults can't reach the (stylish) pegs of a GTS.

Post by **illnoise** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:30 am

most states say passengers must be tall enough to reach the footpegs.

Though they doesn't necessarily say STOCK footpegs...

Bb.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:32 am

olhogrider wrote:I can't see how it would be illegal. The restraint harness I mentioned straps the kid to you. This thin looks like it just keeps them from sliding off. As long as you are not attaching them to the scooter you should be ok. The stirrups should suffice for the footpeg requirement. Even many adults can't reach the (stylish) pegs of a GTS.

You're welcome to test that out! In CA, you could not have a child under 6 or under 60lbs. as a passenger anyways because you'd violate the child seat and restraint laws.

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:36 am

ericalm wrote: You're welcome to test that out! In CA, you could not have a child under 6 or under 60lbs. as a passenger anyways because you'd violate the child seat and restraint laws.

That applies to motorcycles??

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:39 am

olhogrider wrote:
ericalm wrote: You're welcome to test that out! In CA, you could not have a child under 6 or under 60lbs. as a passenger anyways because you'd violate the child seat and restraint laws.
That applies to motorcycles??

Yep. The law simply states "motor vehicle," which is defined as "any vehicle which is self-propelled." This includes motorcycles and scooters. The exceptions are for things like motorized wheelchairs.

My favorite website, CA Vehicle Codes:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc.htm

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:06 am

Interesting, since there is no such thing as a motorcycle "car seat". Kinda like when the seatbelt law went into effect. They grandfathered old cars that never came with seatbelts. I had a friend who owned a 1932 Ford Roadster. He would get pulled over for no turn signals (they never had them), no fenders (optional equipment) no seatbelts and lots of other stuff that didn't apply. When I was a kid, my dad had a "Bugeye Sprite". He got a ticket for "headlights mounted too low". They were put there by Austin Healey at the factory!

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:16 am

All that seat belt/car seat stuff doesn't apply.

27315. (a) The Legislature finds that a mandatory seatbelt law will contribute to reducing highway deaths and injuries by encouraging greater usage of existing manual seatbelts, that automatic crash protection systems which require no action by vehicle occupants offer the best hope of reducing deaths and injuries, and that encouraging the use of manual safety belts is only a partial remedy for addressing this major cause of death and injury. The Legislature declares that the enactment of this section is intended to be compatible with support for federal safety standards requiring automatic crash protection systems and should not be used in any manner to rescind federal requirements for installation of automatic restraints in new cars.

(b) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Motor Vehicle Safety Act.

(c) (1) As used in this section, "motor vehicle" means a passenger vehicle, a motortruck, or a truck tractor, but does not include a motorcycle.

Child Passenger Restraints: Requirements

27360. (a) A parent or legal guardian, when present in a motor vehicle, as defined in Section 27315, may not permit his or her child or ward to be transported upon a highway in the motor vehicle without properly securing the child or ward in a rear seat in a child passenger restraint system meeting applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards, unless the child or ward is one of the following:

(1) Six years of age or older.

(2) Sixty pounds or more.[/u]

All this legal stuff is giving me a headache.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:50 am

Ha, i went to their stock "motor vehicle" definition.

The legality of these is kind of moot AFAIC… I think it's more a matter of "Is it a really bad idea to strap your kid to a scooter?" Or maybe, "Is something like this a good idea if you've already resolved to putting your kid on a scooter?" As I recently told my neighbor, who was irked that neighborhood kids who were riding bikes up and down the sidewalk without helmets, you can't really tell other people what to do with their kids. Even friendly, well-intentioned unsolicited advice is rarely welcome.

Anyone who thinks these things are a really good idea can order one from Vespa UK. For some reason, it's not available in the US or Canada.

paulferree · Post by **paulferree** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:33 pm

I thought I was set up to receive notification of replies...I didn't think anybody responded. You guys are good!

Anyway, I've been riding my 5yo son around the block and he loves it, whether or not I'll take it on the road with him is still up in the air...we just got it...regardless, even if I'm driving around the neighborhood I want him to be protected. IF we do end up taking him on the road it would be backroads only. We'll just have to see how he does and progress slowly.

I appreciate all the advice, even the advice against it...that's no problem, nobody wants anybody to get hurt, so it's fair.

Thanks for all the leads though, I'll have to check them out here over the next few days.

Hey Jimmy!!! Thanks for help! I saw your scooter posted up at the Chinese buffet last night...hope you made it home before the rain hit!

Thanks again!
Paul

MarkTur · Post by **MarkTur** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:08 pm

Ya know, I'm not that sure that backroads are better...they're less maintained, and if something did happen, would anyone see you? Close to phones, hopitals, etc.

In one sense, I think I'd rather be on a non-artery city street than out in the country...but either way, without the kid.

My parents did not allow me to own a motorcycle while living at home with them...they did buy me a moped when I was 15, and I rode it up until I bought a car (about a year)...but now being a parent, I understand why.

I have a wonderful life, with no real regrets, and although I want to live to be 120, if I was taken out tomorrow, nobody would be able to say that I didn't have a great time and did most of the things I've wanted to do/accomplish. It's not fair to take that away from a kid, just to get the wind in their face at such an early age.

I want my 11 year old to out-live me. No parent should have to bury their own kid...so he'll wait until he's older before I get him used to being on a 2-wheeled "cycle".

His bike and ripstick and surfboard are extreme enough for now...

Everyone bummed out now?

Sorry...

Modern Buddy

Children Safety Apparel

Children Safety Apparel

sorry

Re: sorry

kids riding gear

Whoops!