Scooter Related Stocks?

[buddyinblack]

I was just curious to know if there are any scooter related stocks that might be worth looking into.

[illnoise]

There's another thread on this somewhere.

Piaggio's on the Borsa, *I* wouldn't invest in them, other than maybe as a blue chip long-term kinda thing. *Edit, no the more I think about it, that's even scarier, Piaggio will outlive humanity, but it'll change hands six thousand times in the process.)

Bajaj and some other asian companies are public on their local markets

Genuine is private. All the other US distributors I can think of are, too.

PGO might be public, but we're a tiny fraction of their market, of any scooter companies, really. Don't invest unless you have a good understanding of the international scooter market. Italian motorcycle companies, for instance, are notorious for burning through investor money, going bankrupt, getting bought out by competitors, or bailed out by the government. The asian companies all merge and do joint ventures that you'd never be able to follow.

Bb.

[buddyinblack]

Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like you have researched it quite extensivly and are opting to leave it alone. I think I will do the same but skip the research part. thanks again

[illnoise]

Well, I'm not a financial expert by any means, and I actually don't really have any money invested anywhere aside from my wife's 401k, but I read up on the industry a lot and even I could see that Piaggio's IPO was a joke. Colannino spent three months talking about how the U.S. market was going to change Piaggio, and meanwhile, we're getting their leftovers and new models a year after they come out there. Any dealer can tell you they were inflating their numbers by dumping bikes on any snowmobile shop or farm-n-fleet that would sign for a truckload of year-old Typhoons they couldn't sell in europe.

And they're the industry leader, now that Bajaj has abandoned scooters.

It's just a very volatile industry, and the money isn't made by investors, it's made by robber barons who go crying to the government at every economic downturn.

I dunno, I didn't think about the Japanese/US operations, but I still really think the scooter and motorcycle market's going to tank hard soon, this is as good as it gets. It's all cyclical, based on gas prices, ecological hype, and lack of consumer confidence.

The weird part is, in most cases the ecological/economical factors are just excuses people use to justify spending cash on a two-wheeler. People love to spend money to save money. Most people buying scooters right now are not using them as their sole mode of transportation, and it's hard to argue that a high-end scooter such as a Vespa GTS or a Piaggio MP3 is anything but a luxury item. People aren't buying them instead of the car they needed, they're buying them instead of a flashy second or third car that they didn't need.

There are many people for whom a scooter is a responsible choice, and they'll keep buying them without an economic crisis to blame the purchase on.

Bb.

[SCOOTERSOLDIER]

Power Sports Factory

Mario Andretti is associated.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=pspf.ob

http://www.powersportsfactory.com/

[ericalm]

Power Sports Factory

Mario Andretti is associated.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=pspf.ob

http://www.powersportsfactory.com/

Andretti licensed his name to Benelli but I don't know how "associated" he is. Despite the Italian name, Benelli is a Chinese company and the scooters are made on mainland China. The ones I've seen didn't look as bad as some, but I can't speak to the quality or durability of the scoots. Power Sports Factory is a company that imports Chinese scooters into the US.

Odd that their stock split at $1.05; it then traded for pennies. The guy who runs it had 60,000,000 shares as of May '07. If you look at the history, most days it does nothing in trades, then there are little, and sometimes big, spikes. Here's their investor info sheet if you're really interested.

[Portland_Rider]

Thanks for the heads-up on the flaky mismanagement of the scooter companies. Individually, I would not invest in one since I'm not savvy enough to understand financial details. However, I do (usually) understand trends and I believe that medium to long-term, the overall scooter industry is going to grow.

The reason is demand:
* Modernizing world economies with hundreds of millions or is that a billion+ people enjoying new found prosperity. Ok, some will buy cars and not scooters (and others will go from bicycles, donkeys, and feet to scooters) and that will all increase the gas price thus increasing scooter demand.
* Americans and America are being crushed by debts. Taxes will increase while available income will decrease. Scooters are practical. America is ever increasingly going third world.
* Americans buying power is dropping fast. In the last six years, we have lost almost 50% of our buying power with the dollar. That means that if you had $250,000 six years ago, it will only buy you about $135,000 worth of goods and services today as it used to. Wages are not keeping up with inflation which the government is not honestly reporting.
* Modernizing world markets placing ever greater demands on raw materials from oil to steel to rubber to platinum (catalytic converters). Car prices will increase unless the makers go to efficient bare-bones models.
* There is a growing social trend in America among many to live simply, get away from materialism, reduce debt, and protect the earth. Scooters fit into this cultural movement.

So how to take advantage of our love of scooters while recognizing the unprofessional management of the scooter companies that can burn an investor?

While I do not know who is or how many scooter companies are public or private, it is also a possibility to look into those industries who operate alongside the scooter industry such as those who produce accessories or parts.

The answer Might be to go with an Index Fund which follows an industry's growth and adjusts itself over time. Passively managed funds like an Index Fund are reported to actually outperform actively managed high-tax high-fee Mutual Funds 80% of the time.

Thoughts?

PR

[ericalm]

So how to take advantage of our love of scooters while recognizing the unprofessional management of the scooter companies that can burn an investor?

While I do not know who is or how many scooter companies are public or private, it is also a possibility to look into those industries who operate alongside the scooter industry such as those who produce accessories or parts.

The answer Might be to go with an Index Fund which follows an industry's growth and adjusts itself over time. Passively managed funds like an Index Fund are reported to actually outperform actively managed high-tax high-fee Mutual Funds 80% of the time.

Thoughts?

I was trying to avoid dispensing financial advice, but since you asked…

I'm not aware of any scooter-related funds, though there are probably some international funds that have investments in large companies such as Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki. These companies are very diversified, though. Very few companies have survived solely in the scooter market. The closest is probably Piaggio, but they have always built different types of vehicles and have since acquired Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, etc.

If I was going to buy something along these lines, I might try looking at what types of related companies might stand to gain from increased scooter sales, things like oil, gear, helmets, etc., well-managed, stable companies which weren't solely reliant on scooter sales. Like many, I think this boom will end. I don't see it ending as quickly as some have predicted—it could drag on, tapering, for a couple years even—but IMHO, it certainly won't last long enough to to be a solid long-term investment.

I'm a pretty conservative investor (no need to risk a lot to make a big, quick score) and am having enough trouble these days deciding what to do with my own portfolio without having to tread into those volatile waters. I wouldn't go near any of these publicly-traded scooter companies. I might consider a private venture some day depending on who was involved and so on, but even that wouldn't happen any time soon.

[Scooter Hoot]

Yah, I did a minimal amount of looking around a little while ago at who really owns these companies and how they're structured, and quite frankly got a bit baffled. As has already been said, the biggest problem with trying to invest in some of the asian manufacturers is that the markets in China and Taiwan tend to be rather volatile. Companies will come, go, their stock will split, change management, get sold off, get bought out, merge, and just about any other possibility.

I would treat most of these companies the same as any "penny" stock. You don't see much going on with them most of the time, and then they'll randomly jump in unexpected directions. If and when you do want to sell, there's no telling what kind of price you can get.

I personally tend to put the bulk of my investments in big broad based funds, with 5 or 10% that I'll "play" the market with. The few years I've been trying that, I've only lost somewhat less than my large funds have done (darned bear market), but none of them have really done all that well.

[MikieTaps]

. America is ever increasingly going third world.

I think this is quite the overstatement. Have you been to a 3rd world country? America is NOT even close!

I hope your statement was a gross exageration meant to emphasize your point.

[illnoise]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... fer=europe

Here we go, another example of Italian law being changed at the convenience of industry, and another industrial giant changes hands after a government buyout. IMMSI/Colaninno will lose all interest in Piaggio and run it into the ground as he pushes Alitalia to go public, he gets rich on the Alitalia sale, Piaggio gets bought out by the government in a few years, everyone wins. Wait, nobody wins but Colannino, who gets rich, and Berlusconi, who gets re-elected with the financial backing of his industrialist friends.

That's how the U.S goverment works, too, they're just more subtle about it.

Bb.

[irishtim]

Not that this thread's getting political or anything...

[illnoise]

econo-socio-political.

Bb.