Buddy 125 at 50 MPH

onlyagibson · Post by **onlyagibson** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:39 pm

Okay this forum has been an awesome source of information. I have another question...

I have a friend who is a log time motorcycle rider. I should note up front that he has not ridden a scooter in over 10 years (only street bikes). He is of the opinion that it would be scary to ride a scooter like the Buddy at 50 MPH and that because my commute has a number of 45 MPH streets I should instead consider an entry level street bike. When he says scary he means from a ride and stability perspective. He did concede that modern scooters may have improved in this area. Can anyone give me their experience at these speeds? Thanks!

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:41 pm

I go over 50 mph everyday. I feel more comfortable at those speeds than I do at 20mph... just my $0.02

farrellcollie · Post by **farrellcollie** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:55 pm

I ride my 125cc buddy on roads between 5-55mph without difficulty. We are in the market for another scooter and will be getting a 150cc or 200cc (buddy international or Sym).

r0sa · Post by **r0sa** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:56 pm

i full throttle my scooter pretty much everyday, i feel comfortable, its not really that bad

ScootingInTheRain · Post by **ScootingInTheRain** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:58 pm

MikieTaps wrote:I go over 50 mph everyday. I feel more comfortable at those speeds than I do at 20mph... just my $0.02

Yep. I went 50+ for about 40% of my 30-minute commute today, and every day both directions. The Buddy is very stable up there. In fact, it seems to really want to go fast.

I feel most stable from about 40-55bmph.

Post by **jmazza** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:13 pm

50 is the Buddy's sweet spot in my opinion. I don't feel any stability worries really ever, but it can get a little exciting around 65-70. I have fairly decent roads to ride on, though, and that contributes a lot to my confidence.

Twentyfourskys · Post by **Twentyfourskys** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:18 pm

I have done 75 on my 125 and the scooter did not feel like it was unstable at all, was not shaking or doing anything out of the ordinary. I agree with the other posts above, I feel more comfortable at 55 than 25. My commute to work is about 30 minutes and I am usually doing around 55 the whole way there.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:23 pm

Alix B rode 20k miles on her buddy mostly at those high speeds. I think she doesnt mind if she rode that much on her buddy.

n00b4life · Post by **n00b4life** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:32 pm

I guess it is all subjective. I've ridden a lot miles on a lot of motorcycles and the Buddy does not feel as stable at high speeds. It doesn't really bother me (at any speed), but I can feel it. At 50 it is ok, but this is about the limit before I really start to notice the light weight and probably the short wheelbase.

I'm not sure how 50 would feel more stable than 20, but like I said, its all subjective.

BigColdMartini · Post by **BigColdMartini** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:33 pm

Ditto on the feeling more stable at faster speeds. Bumps seem softer too.

greencountry · Post by **greencountry** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:46 pm

Before I got a motorcycle alongside the Buddy, I was pretty shaken by speeds above 40-50 indicated mph on the Buddy (about 35-40 actual mph). Not necessarily from a comfort perspective though -- more like from a "holy **** I'm going almost 50!" perspective.

In that way, the motorcycle's additional heft and inertia made me feel more comfy taking it up to 65 even at the same experience level, and even on a highway with trucks. But once I got used to the speed, when I got back on the Buddy, I had no concerns as I full-throttled it all the way to the top speed - I reached ~72 mph indicated - and kept it there for about half a mile. No discomfort at all -- not from bumps, wind, or wind noise. Actually the wind noise was suprisingly quiet compared to my moto (I had the wrong windscreen on the moto, it was pushing air up into my helmet).

All this is to say that IMHO, the Buddy is totally capable of 50-60 mph and comfortable at those speeds. But give your comfort zone time to grow into that range -- don't just hop on the fast roads from the get-go.

onlyagibson · Post by **onlyagibson** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:56 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Xena · Post by **Xena** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:28 pm

I too run at about 50-55 everyday and feel completely and totally safe...When I get her up to 70ish, she is very happy and purrs like a kitten with it's belly being tickled...

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:42 pm

There is no instability with the Buddy at 50. It seems to like that speed. The Buddy really doesn't do freeway speeds and I would certainly like a larger and heavier machine around me if that is what I was planning.

amanda_c · Post by **amanda_c** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:48 pm

Add another vote for 50+ MPH.

Driving to work, my Buddy seems to tend naturally toward the 45-50 mph (that's actual mph. speedo reads 50-60). I ride a 150, but it's the same wheels and body as the 125. I feel very comfortable and secure.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:36 pm

n00b4life wrote:
I'm not sure how 50 would feel more stable than 20, but like I said, its all subjective.

Physics, my friend.
A 2 wheeled vehicle will always feel safer at higher speeds. A 2 wheeled vehicle honestly is hard to crash in a straight line without an object in your path. They LOVE to go STRAIGHT.
One mroe vote for 50+ riding. My Buddy cruises easily at 50-58...

greencountry · Post by **greencountry** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:04 pm

7eregrine wrote:
n00b4life wrote:
I'm not sure how 50 would feel more stable than 20, but like I said, its all subjective.

Physics, my friend.
A 2 wheeled vehicle will always feel safer at higher speeds. A 2 wheeled vehicle honestly is hard to crash in a straight line without an object in your path. They LOVE to go STRAIGHT.
One mroe vote for 50+ riding. My Buddy cruises easily at 50-58...

Same reason the motorcycle felt a little more comfy at speed. The greater weight = greater inertia. Greater intertia moving in the same direction at constant speed = less effort to balance and maintain the direction. If you watch some of the moto crash videos on youtube, you'll often see the bike continue rolling in a straight line even after the stunting rider falls off cuz he lost his own balance.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:11 pm

50 is cake! I posted video <a href="viewtopic.php?t=7745">In this thread</a> of me doing over 80! Seriously, they feel more stable the faster you go. The only issue is that bumps get worse at higher speed. I pass 50mph daily on my 50 mile commute, you should have no problems at all.

7eregrine · Post by **7eregrine** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:13 pm

greencountry wrote:
Same reason the motorcycle felt a little more comfy at speed. The greater weight = greater inertia. Greater intertia moving in the same direction at constant speed = less effort to balance and maintain the direction. If you watch some of the moto crash videos on youtube, you'll often see the bike continue rolling in a straight line even after the stunting rider falls off cuz he lost his own balance.

Exactly. Although I should have said "A well designed 2 wheeler...".

Has anyone ever done a phantom grip on the Buddy? i.e. not really holding the handlebars at all? It still goes straight...

*Do not try this on my recommendation, please. Just trust me. It works.

Leeroy Jenkins · Post by **Leeroy Jenkins** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:43 pm

i scoot around town @ 80+ mph indicated.

My bud feels fine in a straight line.

Hauling the mail in the turns and over bumps gets a little scary but so did my old 1986 BMW k75 motorcycle.

jim chf · Post by **jim chf** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:15 am

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Physics, my friend.
A 2 wheeled vehicle will always feel safer at higher speeds. A 2 wheeled vehicle honestly is hard to crash in a straight line without an object in your path. They LOVE to go STRAIGHT.
One mroe vote for 50+ riding. My Buddy cruises easily at 50-58

It’s the gyroscopic effect.
Larger wheels have a larger gyroscopic effect and are therefore more stable than a smaller wheel. Therefore motorcycles with larger wheels feel more stable than a Budd with 10”wheels.
all the best. jim

hope I got the quote above right.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:26 am

Kaos wrote:50 is cake! I posted video <a href="viewtopic.php?t=7745">In this thread</a> of me doing over 80! Seriously, they feel more stable the faster you go. The only issue is that bumps get worse at higher speed. I pass 50mph daily on my 50 mile commute, you should have no problems at all.

Yeah, but you're a maniac.

I suppose it varies by rider. 50+ is not problem at all, but at 60 or so the Buddy does feel twitchy and less stable to me. I wouldn't want to have to swerve around a vehicle or make an evasive maneuver on a Buddy at 70mph. Yes, inertia smoothes the ride, but that's countered by the tire size, road condition, drag and other factors.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:50 am

ericalm wrote:
Kaos wrote:50 is cake! I posted video <a href="viewtopic.php?t=7745">In this thread</a> of me doing over 80! Seriously, they feel more stable the faster you go. The only issue is that bumps get worse at higher speed. I pass 50mph daily on my 50 mile commute, you should have no problems at all.
Yeah, but you're a maniac.

I suppose it varies by rider. 50+ is not problem at all, but at 60 or so the Buddy does feel twitchy and less stable to me. I wouldn't want to have to swerve around a vehicle or make an evasive maneuver on a Buddy at 70mph. Yes, inertia smoothes the ride, but that's countered by the tire size, road condition, drag and other factors.

Yeah, well.... Hard to argue with that. Countersteering is the key to quick maneuver at speeds like that. The Buddy really starts to feel like it's tied to a rail at high speeds.

rickko · Post by **rickko** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:08 am

Its all a matter of getting use to it.

Safer from a stability standpoint. Yes, a m/c w/19 to 21" tires, a much longer wheelbase, more mass and much better suspension will be safer than the Buddy, IMO.

Just imagine hitting a 12" pot hole with a 10" tire vs. a 19" tire. Or a 18-wheeler's tire snake. I hate to think of what will happen to a a scooter and its pilot.

I have a friend that was following a car too close. Before he could react, the car in front of him had run over a ladder that apparently had fallen off a truck. The ladder was laying in an orientation that he had to ride over every rung! He was on 600 lb m/c. If he'd been on a scooter he'd probably still be in the hospital.

I've got somewhere around 250000 to 300000 miles of experience on motorcycles. My 1st mile was on a Vespa in 1964. Nearly all the rest are on full size motorcycles, Hondas, Yamahas, Harleys etc. I definitely feel less safe from a stability standpoint on the Buddy 125 at higher speeds. (But it is out-weighed by my years of on-road m/c riding.)

I've recently upgraded the front forks to NCY's. That's helped a lot. Now the tires need to be improved, and maybe a new rear shock too.

I'll tell ya' what it is (for me). The handlebars are so narrow and the scooter is so light! It feels like it would be so easy for the front end to get flicked off course. It just feels that way at higher speeds. This should make sense if you consider I'm comparing a 200 lbs scooter to a 700 lb+ motorcycle.

I'll do any speed required to keep up and aggressive in traffic but sometimes when the road is a little rough I find a nice heavy m/c a lot more comfortable from a safety point of view than a lightweight scooter.

JMO!
..rickko..

newslinky · Post by **newslinky** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:02 am

+1 to everyone else saying that the Buddy rides really nicely at 50-55 BMPH. True 50 MPH (57 on my Buddy Speedo) still is smooth as silk and I have had my speed all the way up to 68. Still waiting on my windshield to come in then it will get even faster and smoother by alla ccounts. Plus better MPG!

scootersRhogs2 · Post by **scootersRhogs2** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:46 pm

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:i scoot around town @ 80+ mph indicated.

My bud feels fine in a straight line.

Hauling the mail in the turns and over bumps gets a little scary but so did my old 1986 BMW k75 motorcycle.

what the hell. my budy doesnt go 80. what did you do to it??

jkelsch · Post by **jkelsch** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:00 pm

My issue when scooting on the interstate at 65-70+ indicated seems to be crosswind, feels like it wants to blow me over or at least into a different lane. Not sure if I just happen to always pick windier days to high speed ride or if that's just the way it is. But yeah 50 indicated....smooth.

MarkTur · Post by **MarkTur** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:03 pm

The Buddy on the highway? Wow - you're brave!

I can get mine to an indicated 70bmph - but my GPS says 59.7 was the fastest I've ever gone...I wouldn't take it on the highway with WOT still not keeping up with traffic here in S. Florida. They go 60mph on the regular arteries through cities...

Ketty · Post by **Ketty** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:07 pm

I've never felt unstable or anything at 50-55, and I hit that anytime I ride, usually. I was afraid that the small tires would make it unstable, but nope, feels great.

jkelsch · Post by **jkelsch** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:13 pm

Crossing the I-90 bridge over lake washington saves about 45 mins of backroads around the lake. WOT was only slightly slower than the rest of the cars on the road, and there was no traffic so I'm assuming they were all probably going around 70, stayed in the slow lane until my left hand exit no problems.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:19 pm

MarkTur wrote:The Buddy on the highway? Wow - you're brave!

I can get mine to an indicated 70bmph - but my GPS says 59.7 was the fastest I've ever gone...I wouldn't take it on the highway with WOT still not keeping up with traffic here in S. Florida. They go 60mph on the regular arteries through cities...

I can keep up(and even pass) easily on the highway. Though the indicated 80+ is probably more like 70-75, its still plenty fast for traffic.

MarkTur · Post by **MarkTur** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:29 pm

How is that possible?

I'm on a 125cc...how about you?

I weigh 210lbs...6'0.

Have you done any upgrades, etc?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:33 pm

MarkTur wrote:How is that possible?

I'm on a 125cc...how about you?

I weigh 210lbs...6'0.

Have you done any upgrades, etc?

Mine is also a 125, I've swapped variator weights, jetted up 1 size and done some carb tuning, I did a hard break in, which in my experience with building hotrods makes a MAJOR difference.

I think the milage you have has a lot to do with it as well, I wasn't able to even reach 70 till over 1000 miles, and 80 came at around 2500.

I'm 6'3" 180lbs.

MarkTur · Post by **MarkTur** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:37 pm

OK, I'm at about 750 miles...I'll wait a bit. I really don't want to put any money into it right now, as I'm going to be getting a Maxi I think...and it's plenty-fast for my wife.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:31 pm

My Buddy purrs at 45 to 55. That's her sweet spot. Above 55 she begins to get snippy. I've had her up to 65mph, but she's not happy about it. She's not twitchy, but she lets you know she doesn't like being ridden that hard.

n00b4life · Post by **n00b4life** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:32 pm

ericalm wrote:I suppose it varies by rider. 50+ is not problem at all, but at 60 or so the Buddy does feel twitchy and less stable to me. I wouldn't want to have to swerve around a vehicle or make an evasive maneuver on a Buddy at 70mph. Yes, inertia smoothes the ride, but that's countered by the tire size, road condition, drag and other factors.

I was beginning to think I was losing my mind. Glad to hear that there are others who think the Buddy is a little twitchy above 50 or so.

As for the physics lessons, I appreciate them, but I have logged a lot of miles (100,000+) on two wheels, from sub-20 lb bicycles to big, fat Harleys, so I already understand the gyroscopic effect very well. I've ridden many of those miles at well over 100 mph, so speed is not an issue for me. However, there is a lot more to how a bike feels than just the gyroscopic effect.

To over simplify, for example, Low speed maneuverability = high speed flickability and, eventually twitchiness and instability. High speed stability = heavy, sluggish low speed handling. This has a lot to do with the weight, geometry and dimensions of the bike.

There are also issues with airflow and lift that I could not begin to guess how they come into play on the Buddy. I can tell you that a bicycle feels MUCH different at 50 mph than at 20 mph and the difference is not a positive, reassuring one, to say nothing of the emergency handling or stopping abilities of a bicycle at those speeds.

A 125cc scooter is not a bicycle, but it is not a 1200cc cruiser or a 600cc sport bike, either. They all feel and handle differently at different speeds. The Buddy feels much better at 50 than the bicycle and not nearly as good as the larger motorcycles, IMO.

I'm sure there are people out there who can't feel the handling characteristics of the Buddy change at higher speeds, but there are clearly some here who can. Does that mean the Buddy shouldn't be going that fast? Probably not.

n00b4life · Post by **n00b4life** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:41 pm

rickko wrote:Its all a matter of getting use to it.

Safer from a stability standpoint. Yes, a m/c w/19 to 21" tires, a much longer wheelbase, more mass and much better suspension will be safer than the Buddy, IMO.

Just imagine hitting a 12" pot hole with a 10" tire vs. a 19" tire. Or a 18-wheeler's tire snake. I hate to think of what will happen to a a scooter and its pilot.

I have a friend that was following a car too close. Before he could react, the car in front of him had run over a ladder that apparently had fallen off a truck. The ladder was laying in an orientation that he had to ride over every rung! He was on 600 lb m/c. If he'd been on a scooter he'd probably still be in the hospital.

I've got somewhere around 250000 to 300000 miles of experience on motorcycles. My 1st mile was on a Vespa in 1964. Nearly all the rest are on full size motorcycles, Hondas, Yamahas, Harleys etc. I definitely feel less safe from a stability standpoint on the Buddy 125 at higher speeds. (But it is out-weighed by my years of on-road m/c riding.)

I've recently upgraded the front forks to NCY's. That's helped a lot. Now the tires need to be improved, and maybe a new rear shock too.

I'll tell ya' what it is (for me). The handlebars are so narrow and the scooter is so light! It feels like it would be so easy for the front end to get flicked off course. It just feels that way at higher speeds. This should make sense if you consider I'm comparing a 200 lbs scooter to a 700 lb+ motorcycle.

I'll do any speed required to keep up and aggressive in traffic but sometimes when the road is a little rough I find a nice heavy m/c a lot more comfortable from a safety point of view than a lightweight scooter.

JMO!
..rickko..

+1 to all of that, but especially the ladder stuff. I drive 35,000+ miles per year and I see a ladder on the road every week or so. I avoid trucks with ladders like the plague.

Last week, I saw one that was in the bed of a pickup, resting on the tailgate (which was closed), stand STRAIGHT UP and fly off the back of the truck. A couple of cars hit it and rungs exploded into the air. The truck was in the left lane and I moved to the center and then the right, before the ladder came off. I ended up on the shoulder to avoid some of the flying debris.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:32 pm

7eregrine wrote:
greencountry wrote:
Same reason the motorcycle felt a little more comfy at speed. The greater weight = greater inertia. Greater intertia moving in the same direction at constant speed = less effort to balance and maintain the direction. If you watch some of the moto crash videos on youtube, you'll often see the bike continue rolling in a straight line even after the stunting rider falls off cuz he lost his own balance.
Exactly. Although I should have said "A well designed 2 wheeler...".

Has anyone ever done a phantom grip on the Buddy? i.e. not really holding the handlebars at all? It still goes straight...

*Do not try this on my recommendation, please. Just trust me. It works.

Yeah I coast to stop lights on occasion without my hands... i adjust my helmet... fix my jacket... etc... it loves going in a straight line even with no hands! I ride one handed on the highways sometimes, and no issues... I just have to keep that throttle cranked down!

daredevildi · Post by **daredevildi** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:56 am

Now that I am comfortable riding my Buddy - I have no problem riding it at 50 mph. On my daily commute I ride several streets that are 45 - 50 mph.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:29 am

onlyagibson wrote:Okay this forum has been an awesome source of information. I have another question...

I have a friend who is a log time motorcycle rider. I should note up front that he has not ridden a scooter in over 10 years (only street bikes). He is of the opinion that it would be scary to ride a scooter like the Buddy at 50 MPH and that because my commute has a number of 45 MPH streets I should instead consider an entry level street bike. When he says scary he means from a ride and stability perspective. He did concede that modern scooters may have improved in this area. Can anyone give me their experience at these speeds? Thanks!

45MPH streets? Why would you want a heavy steering MC for that? If you're talking turnpike commutes at say 75-80 MPH, then I'd say get a MC or at least a heavier, bigger scooter! But 45MPH streets? That's where scooters like the Buddy absolutely shine!!

Beamster · Post by **Beamster** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:27 pm

onlyagibson wrote:Okay this forum has been an awesome source of information. I have another question...

I have a friend who is a log time motorcycle rider. I should note up front that he has not ridden a scooter in over 10 years (only street bikes). He is of the opinion that it would be scary to ride a scooter like the Buddy at 50 MPH and that because my commute has a number of 45 MPH streets I should instead consider an entry level street bike. When he says scary he means from a ride and stability perspective. He did concede that modern scooters may have improved in this area. Can anyone give me their experience at these speeds? Thanks!

He's an old lady.
My neighbor is like like; will only own and ride 1 motorcycle because he doesn't want to tempt fate that he might not be at his best switching around. All that and I watched him almost dump his $20k BMW at a light.

I remember my brother saying one of his drag mikes got squirrely at about 120 mph, on the way to 175. Made it fun to ride.

I think true 2 wheel enthusiasts love the speed.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:35 pm

Beamster wrote:I think true 2 wheel enthusiasts love the speed.

I think true 2-wheel experiences love the ride. Some of them just happen to love it at higher speeds than others.

bryantbuddy · Post by **bryantbuddy** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:32 pm

As a motorcycle rider for over 30 years I agree with n00b4life and others who say that even though the Buddy seems stable at speed (over 50) I think that is an illusion. A larger machine (longer wheelbase and larger tires) significantly improves your stability. The Buddy is a great machine but I am not comfortable running over 55. If that need arises, I take my motorcycle. I'll gladly give up the mileage for safety.

Just remember, Just cause it hassn't happened to you, doesn't mean it has never happened.

Ride safe.

[/i]

Modern Buddy

Buddy 125 at 50 MPH

Buddy 125 at 50 MPH

Thanks.

Buddy at 50 MPH

Re: Buddy 125 at 50 MPH

Re: Buddy 125 at 50 MPH

Re: Buddy 125 at 50 MPH

another 2 cents