So I got one – the Prima exhaust.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:00 am

So I got one – the Prima exhaust.
As said it is good looking and the sound is great, much throatier but not too loud it’s not offensive. As for performance I can’t tell much difference, its more like I think I’m going faster therefore I am. My before and after test results are confusing and inconclusive, wind affecting accurate times. Spot checking various places where I would have to use full throttle to make it up steep hills I have noticed higher mph but the wind has such an effect I really don’t know if its because of the new pipe or if its just better conditions. Overall with nearly every spot test the scoot has performed the same or a little better with the new pipe. So I like the pipe for it makes my scoot a little more unique and I think a little faster that’s the fun of it all.
Oh – I got the exhaust from New Urban Transport here in Albuquerque – Nick the head mechanic/salesman installed it for free! - $197.72 on the bike out the door
Rumor has it Genuine is coming out with a 170cc bore kit for the Buddy with a new quad valve head, no crank work – it will be expensive but it should make real power - hopefully the ports match to my new Prima exhaust

Here are a couple of pics:

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:11 am

Bling!

Looks good. While it's tempting to get rid of the boat anchor that is the stocker, I need mine as quiet as possible due to where I park.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:48 am

vitaminC wrote:Bling!

Looks good. While it's tempting to get rid of the boat anchor that is the stocker, I need mine as quiet as possible due to where I park.

I recommend turning your scooter off when you park.

mybetty · Post by **mybetty** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:48 am

your scooter looks great!!! where did you get your flames? i love the flame/yellow combo on your black scooter.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:10 pm

gt1000 wrote: I recommend turning your scooter off when you park.

Great idea! That would probably help my fuel mileage, too!

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:31 am

I got the flame decals from a co called Fast Flames – they are now defunct – they specialized in magnetic flames but they made a series of vinyl flames for trucks and cars. The co sent me an advertisement for a closeout sale but that was over 4 months ago.
The flames are an eye catcher – it imprints an image in the eyeball and the viewer then knows you are on the road nearby and then they watch out for you I know it works because people always take a second look. But I hate it when the kids tease me, they just can’t take a joke. Then again even the wife giggles when she sees me rolling up. The Harley dudes down the street have no idea what to do, they try to ignore but they always have to look sometimes they drudgingly do a beer wave in acknowledgement.

toga28 · Post by **toga28** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:53 am

rajron, how reliable is that rumor about the 177 cc kit? can anyone else concur?

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:46 am

I don’t have a source – its just a rumor about the bore kit and head – as a matter of fact I have a difficult time getting Genuine to respond to my inquiries much less the after markets.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:28 am

rajron wrote:I don’t have a source – its just a rumor about the bore kit and head – as a matter of fact I have a difficult time getting Genuine to respond to my inquiries much less the after markets.

Genuine has always answered my inquiries pretty quickly, they just haven't been real forthcoming on answering the questions.

For example, I asked about a 06 -07 upgrade kit. Their answer was something like "yes, others have asked for that too, maybe you might see something that does some of that"

toga28 · Post by **toga28** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:25 pm

I concur; whenever I've talked with Genuine about upgrades, they typically respond quickly, usually referring me to Scooterworks or leaving a cryptic message about "something similar in the coming months." Being a bit of a speed junkie, the prospect of a 170cc kit for the B125 is quite enticing...and generates jealousy among my Stella-riding clubmates.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:16 pm

I you guys have a rapport with Genuine Scooter – can you ask them about performance kits??

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:17 pm

toga28 wrote:...the prospect of a 170cc kit for the B125 is quite enticing...and generates jealousy among my Stella-riding clubmates.

dude, the b125 already generates jealousy amongst the stella, bajaj, etc. riders of the world... it takes any one of them several hundred dollars and sacrificing afair amount of reliability factor to keep up... 170 kit would just make it ridiculous...

toga28 · Post by **toga28** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:14 am

170 kit would just make it ridiculous...

which is precisely why i want one.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:47 am

being ridiculous with a scooter is the nature of having a scooter – isn’t it?

DO3 · Post by **DO3** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:49 am

toga28 wrote:
170 kit would just make it ridiculous...
which is precisely why i want one.

+1

I'd be in line too for a 170 cc kit. Now if they'd come out with a package that included the head kit, a carb, exhaust, and probably an upgear or variator kit that would be awesome. Yes the B125 is quite quick already but a little more top end would rock. Then I wouldn't have to drop the big $ on a GTS or something with more speed.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:00 pm

DO3 wrote:Now if they'd come out with a package that included the head kit, a carb, exhaust, and probably an upgear or variator kit that would be awesome. Yes the B125 is quite quick already but a little more top end would rock. Then I wouldn't have to drop the big $ on a GTS or something with more speed.

when i say ridiculous, i mean good :] .... but i imagine such a package would cost a chunk of change...maybe not a GTS chunk of change, but it would certainly set you back enough that a scooter that is faster out of the box would start to be look like a reasonable option... plus the fact that such a package is hyperbole at the moment... even the 177 kit is rumor at best...

toga28 · Post by **toga28** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:19 am

when i say ridiculous, i mean good :] .... but i imagine such a package would cost a chunk of change...maybe not a GTS chunk of change, but it would certainly set you back enough that a scooter that is faster out of the box would start to be look like a reasonable option... plus the fact that such a package is hyperbole at the moment... even the 177 kit is rumor at best...

well, sure you could buy a ferrari instead of souping up your camaro, but then you wouldn't have the car you wanted, right? i think the same applies with any vehicle - scooters included. i like the GTS as much as the next guy, but i like the idea of my General Lee Buddy going very, very fast.

and while an extra 5-10mph on the top end would be nice, i think i'd almost rather have a quicker off-the-line speed. something about blowing cars off the line that is simply satisfying.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:56 am

toga28 wrote:and while an extra 5-10mph on the top end would be nice, i think i'd almost rather have a quicker off-the-line speed. something about blowing cars off the line that is simply satisfying.

You could get that now by using lighter variator weights...

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:27 am

toga28 wrote:well, sure you could buy a ferrari instead of souping up your camaro, but then you wouldn't have the car you wanted, right? i think the same applies with any vehicle - scooters included. i like the GTS as much as the next guy, but i like the idea of my General Lee Buddy going very, very fast.

i dig, i dig...
roller weights... still haven't found any definitive answer on what stock weight is.... i suppose one could take them out and weigh them...

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:23 am

lou76 wrote:
toga28 wrote:well, sure you could buy a ferrari instead of souping up your camaro, but then you wouldn't have the car you wanted, right? i think the same applies with any vehicle - scooters included. i like the GTS as much as the next guy, but i like the idea of my General Lee Buddy going very, very fast.
i dig, i dig...
roller weights... still haven't found any definitive answer on what stock weight is.... i suppose one could take them out and weigh them...

I haven't cracked open the variator, but the weights are often labeled.

DO3 · Post by **DO3** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:16 pm

I agree that it would be easier, and probably safer just to buy a 750cc+ motorcycle and I'd have all the speed I'd ever need, bigger wheels and a longer wheel base would be more stable at 65+ mph as well. But I like the buddy and making it really move would be a blast. As for the money involved, I've spent tons of money on different cars I've tweaked in the past, so parts for a single cylinder scooter are very reasonable in comparison. Looking at other kits for other scooters what would you guess a full kit would cost?

Prima pipe $200
bigger carb ~$140
Upgear kit ~$100
New weights ~$15
Cylinder kit ~$300

Yes $800 is a lot compared to the purchase price of $2600, but getting into a scooter larger than a 125-150 is close to 4500.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:31 pm

What exactly does adjusting weights on the variator do? It’s just the engagement or tension adjustment isn’t it?
Without changing final gearing or pulley size, top speed will be the same – its only how you get to top speed that will be affected. Start off faster will only slow down mid-range, top speed will still be the same – right? Up mid-range engagement will slow initial pickup with top speed still the same – right?
The stock gearing is good for me now – with additional mods (that will come in the future) seem like when the gearing becomes an issue.

Has anyone actually changed these weights and see a benefit on the Buddy 125?

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:36 pm

rajron wrote:What exactly does adjusting weights on the variator do? It’s just the engagement or tension adjustment isn’t it?
Without changing final gearing or pulley size, top speed will be the same – its only how you get to top speed that will be affected. Start off faster will only slow down mid-range, top speed will still be the same – right? Up mid-range engagement will slow initial pickup with top speed still the same – right?
The stock gearing is good for me now – with additional mods (that will come in the future) seem like when the gearing becomes an issue.

Has anyone actually changed these weights and see a benefit on the Buddy 125?

my simplistic understanding: the functional part of the "transmission" is the two halves of the pulley that the belt is wrapped around... those two halves form a "V" that the belt sits in... the roller weights move with the centrifugal force that is created when the clutch pad engages, and as they move, they force the two halves of the "v" together, narrowing the "v" and forcing the belt outwards... this gradual increase in circumference provides your acceleration... lighter weights will move more quickly, requiring less centrifugal force, giving you faster acceleration, but might not push the "v" together quite as much, lessening your top speed... heavier weights will take a little longer to push the halves together, but will push the halves together as much as they will go, providing top speed...
the clutch spring governs the engagement of the drive train... also a simple piece based on centrifugal force... dont understand it quite as much, but the spring provides resistance against the clutch shoe engaging... lighter clutch spring, the clutch will engage at lower rpm's, heavier spring, the clutch will engage at higher rpm's, theoretically getting you fast alot quicker...
in incomplete, and possibly occasionally misinformed answer... anyone want to pick up the pieces?

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:21 am

Good answer! The CVT Wikipedia entry has a good overview of this kind of transmission.

Here's an excerpt:

Variable-diameter pulley (VDP)
This type of CVT uses pulleys, typically connected by a rubber-covered metal or laminated steel belt. A chain may also be used. A large pulley connected to a smaller pulley with a belt or chain will operate in the same manner as a large gear meshing with a smaller gear. Typical CVTs have pulleys formed as pairs of opposing cones. Moving the cones in and out has the effect of changing the pulley diameter since the belt or chain must take a large-diameter path when the conical pulley halves are close together. This motion of the cones can be computer-controlled and driven, for example by a servo motor. However, in the light-weight VDP transmissions used in automatic motorscooters and light motorcycles, the change in pulley diameter is accomplished by a variator, an all-mechanical system that uses weights and springs to change the pulley diameters as a function of belt speed. In higher power types, for example that produced by Van Doorne's Transmissie (part of the Bosch Group), an oil-cooled laminated steel belt is used.

None of this really means much to me. My understanding is limited to lighter weights = faster acceleration, heavier = higher top speed. And that this has something to do with altering when the CVT changes gears. Some riders mix their weights to add a little on each end. I know some have mentioned "experimenting" with a variety of weights and getting mixed results.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:06 am

ericalm wrote:None of this really means much to me. My understanding is limited to lighter weights = faster acceleration, heavier = higher top speed. And that this has something to do with altering when the CVT changes gears. Some riders mix their weights to add a little on each end. I know some have mentioned "experimenting" with a variety of weights and getting mixed results.

the beauty of the cvt is that it never changes gears... the two halves of the cone pushing together smoothly increases the diameter of the pulley that the belt travels around, increasing the rpms on the driven half of the pulley system... that way you accelerate smoothly, and watch the stellas and p200s and bajaj's fade in your mirrors in steps....

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:20 am

The weather was pretty good, a little on the cool side about 50°F, winds breezing at 15mph but my wife and I went to the daughters high school swim meet on our scoots, its State, and found excellent parking because we can park wherever. – anyway - this is the first time we have rode together since the cold moved in.
The wife said the new exhaust sounds way cool!, she’s jealous and also wants a new exhaust for her scoot. – so it's official the sound is good.

But, her People 150 is still quicker than the Buddy 125 even with the new pipe – bummer.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:36 pm

Slight revision – Kathleen’s scoot is quicker from the stop but we just found out I leave her in the dust @ WOT – Paso Del Note is an expressway that I have been avoiding even though it is one of the quickest routes across the river, they call it the Albuquerque Autobahn and rightfully so. The speed limit is only 60 mph but its just a mere suggestion – anyway we were running late and had to get to the west side quickly so we took the expressway. There was a slight headwind but not much to talk about when we entered to expressway and we just crank it up – easily I reached the speed limit but to keep up with traffic I needed to reach at least 65mph – no problem for me, but poor Kathleen she was bogged and couldn’t keep up with me so I dropped back to an indicated 65 mph which is about 60 mph and maintained that to the exit we needed.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:21 am

rajron wrote:Slight revision – Kathleen’s scoot is quicker from the stop but we just found out I leave her in the dust @ WOT – Paso Del Note is an expressway that I have been avoiding even though it is one of the quickest routes across the river, they call it the Albuquerque Autobahn and rightfully so. The speed limit is only 60 mph but its just a mere suggestion – anyway we were running late and had to get to the west side quickly so we took the expressway. There was a slight headwind but not much to talk about when we entered to expressway and we just crank it up – easily I reached the speed limit but to keep up with traffic I needed to reach at least 65mph – no problem for me, but poor Kathleen she was bogged and couldn’t keep up with me so I dropped back to an indicated 65 mph which is about 60 mph and maintained that to the exit we needed.

Is that kind of performance a big change from pre-exhaust?

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:06 am

With the stock exhaust Kathleen always pulled me on a straight line, now with the new Prima exhaust she still out accelerates me but I now have a higher top speed with the exhaust and also a higher top speed than her scoot, higher than before the new exhaust – today was the first time we were able to go out together for a long ride since I got the new exhaust to make this comparison. Big? not sure - but, for sure a higher top end