Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Tenchi · Post by **Tenchi** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:37 pm

Gracious me, went to price out a Seafoam 125 Buddy and the out the door quote, including tax, license, dealer prep, and, I guess having Jay Leno due the set-up, was $3500! They had an April special with $50 off MSRP. The 150 was $4000 out the door! I mentioned this website and the saleslady admitted she'd never heard of Modern Buddy. Blasphemy! Guess I should have held on to my Elite 80 after all.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:50 pm

Yeah, it sucks how a $2,700 MSRP scooter eventually winds up $3,500 out-the-door. Something is definitely wrong about that. That's a 30% increase over MSRP.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:51 pm

Anything used nearby?

Angela · Post by **Angela** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:56 pm

any other dealers near?

Tenchi · Post by **Tenchi** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:03 pm

Found a 2006 Piaggio Fly with less than 2k miles in the stunning, rare blue color in very good shape. Last year for Italian built Flys, I hear. They are asking about $50 above KBB retail, so there may be some wiggle room on the OTD price. Other than a little scratch and some road dirt on the undercarriage, it looked pretty nice. Started right up and sounded nice.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:20 pm

I remember when the MSRP was only $2,499 on the website. People could walk out the door with a buddy 125 for only 2700 or 2800 dollars, anything over 3000 was unheard of...

Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:21 pm

Tenchi wrote:...went to price out a Seafoam 125 Buddy and the out the door quote, including tax, license, dealer prep, and, I guess having Jay Leno due the set-up, was $3500!

That's a little high. This is from my local dealer, Scoot Richmond's site -

Scoot Richmond wrote:Our One Shot Pricing ensures that you KNOW what the final price of your new scooter will be. That price includes sales or vehicle tax, freight, set-up, inspection, title, registration and license plate, a full tank of gas, and instruction on the proper usage and maintenance of your scoot. In general, Scoot Richmond's One Shot Price will be $400-$500 more than the MSRP.

Their price for the 125 cc Buddy is $3150, about $350 higher [edit: Lower. I meant to say lower] than your dealer. All things considered, your dealer's price is high, but you're on the West Coast where their overhead is probably hell of higher than Scoot Richmond's, so it's not that shocking of a number. I thought you might be interested in the comparison...

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:23 pm

jrsjr wrote:
Tenchi wrote:...went to price out a Seafoam 125 Buddy and the out the door quote, including tax, license, dealer prep, and, I guess having Jay Leno due the set-up, was $3500!
That's a little high. This is from my local dealer, Scoot Richmond's site -
Scoot Richmond wrote:Our One Shot Pricing ensures that you KNOW what the final price of your new scooter will be. That price includes sales or vehicle tax, freight, set-up, inspection, title, registration and license plate, a full tank of gas, and instruction on the proper usage and maintenance of your scoot. In general, Scoot Richmond's One Shot Price will be $400-$500 more than the MSRP.
Their price for the 125 cc Buddy is $3150, about $350 higher than your dealer. All things considered, your dealer's price is high, but you're on the West Coast where their overhead is probably hell of higher than Scoot Richmond's, so it's not that shocking of a number. I thought you might be interested in the comparison...

When I picked up mine at Vespa Portland it was around $3100 if I remember right. So its not just a westcoast thing.

Angela · Post by **Angela** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:28 pm

There is someone up in the Bay Area selling a 2007 Buddy 125 with over 2,000 miles on it for $3,200.

That seems steep.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:28 pm

When I bought mine, MSRP was $2,599. But out-the-door was $3,420. Some dealers gouge, some don't. I had no other options if I wanted a Buddy.

Edit: Doh! I owe everyone an apology. My $3,420 price included $170 in extra stuff. The receipt was folded in half and the extra item was EXACTLY on the crease and had disappeared almost entirely. You could barely make out the writing when you looked really close. In fact, the price was already rubbed off, but I remembered what the item cost. So my Buddy went from $2,599 to $3,250 out-the-door.

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:34 pm

Tenchi wrote:Found a 2006 Piaggio Fly with less than 2k miles in the stunning, rare blue color in very good shape. Last year for Italian built Flys, I hear. They are asking about $50 above KBB retail, so there may be some wiggle room on the OTD price.

KBB??? Kelly means absolutely nothing in the world of used bikes.

Tenchi · Post by **Tenchi** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:35 pm

but then you'll banish me from ModernBuddy and I'll have to find new friends!

Maybe I can buy some Genuine Buddy stickers and hang them all over the scoot, no one will notice?

etak · Post by **etak** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:41 pm

Tenchi wrote:Found a 2006 Piaggio Fly with less than 2k miles in the stunning, rare blue color in very good shape. Last year for Italian built Flys, I hear. They are asking about $50 above KBB retail, so there may be some wiggle room on the OTD price. Other than a little scratch and some road dirt on the undercarriage, it looked pretty nice. Started right up and sounded nice.

Sounds pretty good! Any maintenance records?

Ray Knobs · Post by **Ray Knobs** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:44 pm

Kaos wrote:
When I picked up mine at Vespa Portland it was around $3100 if I remember right. So its not just a westcoast thing.

Did they move Portland?

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:48 pm

Ray Knobs wrote:
Kaos wrote:
When I picked up mine at Vespa Portland it was around $3100 if I remember right. So its not just a westcoast thing.
Did they move Portland?

Apparently there's a city out west that copied our Portland...I heard it doesn't snow nearly as much and that the beer is just as good.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:49 pm

Shipping and set-up are several hundred dollars everywhere unless a dealer is stuck with a bike at the end of the season or something and eats part of it to sell the scoot. Beyond that it is misleading to compare OTD price from state to state. Some states require the title and licensing fees as part of the sale. Other states expect you to go down and register the scoot on your own. In most states, the OTD price includes sales tax which can add $300 or more to the price. Some states, like Oregon, have no sales tax. California, of course, is just about the "perfect storm" of additional charges. (this is not an issue unique to Buddys of course, it applies to any new scoot you care to mention though there seems to be more flexibility in the OTD price of Vespas - higher mark-up, I suppose)

captaintg · Post by **captaintg** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:52 pm

Scoot Richmond wrote:Our One Shot Pricing ensures that you KNOW what the final price of your new scooter will be. That price includes sales or vehicle tax, freight, set-up, inspection, title, registration and license plate, a full tank of gas, and instruction on the proper usage and maintenance of your scoot. In general, Scoot Richmond's One Shot Price will be $400-$500 more than the MSRP.

I love how they include the full tank of gas as part of the fees. All $2 of it. My dealer included that fee as well, and then didn't fill up the tank at all. Not that I'm bitter...

pleasefeedthedog · Post by **pleasefeedthedog** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:57 pm

http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/mcy/1100846926.html

I was pm'd this by a member (sort of a member) who asked me to pass this on. I read it and it does not say what the out the door price would have been but it looks like they were eager to move these little beasts back then.

anthony

COPY:

In celebration of becoming Genuine Scooter Company's #1 Dealer TWO YEARS IN A ROW, We are having a huge SALE!

You heard it right...This is a once a year opportunity to save loads of cash on a BRAND NEW 2009 Genuine Buddy Scooter. These discounts are UNHEARD OF and are limited to the inventory we have on hand. Most colors of Buddy 125's and 150's are in stock and ready for immediate delivery. Are we crazy?..yes. Is this offer too good to be true? Absolutely not! Stop by the store now and adopt your new Buddy. Don't wait too long because this deal ends 4/4/09.

The Genuine lineup of scooters has grown to be one of the most respected scooter companies in the USA. Come see why the LA Times said the Buddy "may be the best Vespa knockoff on the market". With a two year parts & labor warranty with the addition of two free years roadside assistance the Buddy scooter packs in value, convenience, & quality into one amazing scooter! Come into Eco Moto and see why we are the best FULL SERVICE scooter shop in Utah! We stock over 100 scooters in inventory with a full line of riding gear, lifestyle items, high performance parts & more...ALL UNDER ONE ROOF!Check Out www.Genuinescooters.com & www.EcoMoto.com for more information!

Insane Sale Price: $2899 (Buddy 150) $2399 (Buddy 125)
List Price: $3199 (Buddy 150) $2699 (Buddy 125)

Price does not include sales tax, licensing, registration, freight or setup

Eco Moto - Utah's Only Scooter Superstore!
1050 South State Street
Salt Lake City, Utah 84111
www.EcoMoto.com
801-583-3390

ZQ8 Blazer · Post by **ZQ8 Blazer** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:58 pm

That's just stupid imo. If I didn't get mine on sale I would have somewhere around $3180 in it after tax, reg, prep, etc...

I got it on sale so I have a little under 3k in it. I don't see why it would cost that much for.

CiaoItalia · Post by **CiaoItalia** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:03 pm

When I bought my Buddy Italia in the summer of 2007 I only paid MSRP plus tax, tile and registration. No setup, freight etc. This was in Wisconsin so I guess if you're nearby and want to save a few bucks on a scoot...

rickko · Post by **rickko** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:26 pm

Tenchi wrote:Gracious me, ...

Well, a little bit of the added expense is California's new sales tax; nearly 9%!

License & registration fees also increased at the beginning of the year.

The state is not making buying-new very friendly anymore. Buying from a private party is becoming more and more attractive; especially if they mis-report the actually selling price on the bill of sale.

..rickko..

ZQ8 Blazer · Post by **ZQ8 Blazer** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:35 pm

especially if they mis-report the actually selling price on the bill of sale.

oh knowz that's illegal

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:37 pm

jfrost2 wrote:I remember when the MSRP was only $2,499 on the website. People could walk out the door with a buddy 125 for only 2700 or 2800 dollars, anything over 3000 was unheard of...

I paid $2800 OTD for my 125 italia (higher msrp than regular 125) including all taxes, registration, and a massive lock and nice cover... of course that was Feb '08.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:51 pm

All of this back-and-forth about price variations is precisely why I detest the entire way in which vehicle sales of all types are conducted. It should be mandatory that the advertised price include all of these hidden charges. Sure, they do inform you that it's MSRP plus this and plus that, but the "this and that" are anyone's guess, and, I might add, probably vary depending upon how badly the salesperson du jour thinks he/she can soak the buyer.

I remember about 10 years ago when I was looking to buy a new Camry. Added to the list of "incidentals" was a $400+ item for something called TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising). I handed the salesman a slip of paper with a figure of $1200 on it, which I classified as a TBA counter-charge. When he asked me what that was all about I told him that it was for Toyota Buyer Advertising, and was based upon them paying me $10.00 a month for the 10 years I anticipated keeping the car, driving it all around, and this providing advertising for them. Of course, I offered to waive the charge if they would remove all the badging from the car if I bought it. This is known as the "GFY" option.

I know I'm gonna catch heat for this next statement, but for the life of me, I've never understood the need for dealer salespersons. I mean, I've done my homework, I know what I want, I know what your product is, so please, let's cut this antiquated horse-trading crap. Just tell me your price, and I'll decide from there.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:30 am

Found on Craigslist today: 2007 Genuine Buddy Scooter 125cc Red - Low Miles - $1900

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/mcy/1121372694.html

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:23 am

For the same $3500 you can buy my GTS 250ie and hang out at Modern Vespa.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:49 am

olhogrider wrote:For the same $3500 you can buy my GTS 250ie and hang out at Modern Vespa.

Oh, rilly?!

I already hang out there, though.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:59 am

charlie55 wrote:All of this back-and-forth about price variations is precisely why I detest the entire way in which vehicle sales of all types are conducted. It should be mandatory that the advertised price include all of these hidden charges. Sure, they do inform you that it's MSRP plus this and plus that, but the "this and that" are anyone's guess, and, I might add, probably vary depending upon how badly the salesperson du jour thinks he/she can soak the buyer.

I remember about 10 years ago when I was looking to buy a new Camry. Added to the list of "incidentals" was a $400+ item for something called TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising). I handed the salesman a slip of paper with a figure of $1200 on it, which I classified as a TBA counter-charge. When he asked me what that was all about I told him that it was for Toyota Buyer Advertising, and was based upon them paying me $10.00 a month for the 10 years I anticipated keeping the car, driving it all around, and this providing advertising for them. Of course, I offered to waive the charge if they would remove all the badging from the car if I bought it. This is known as the "GFY" option.

I know I'm gonna catch heat for this next statement, but for the life of me, I've never understood the need for dealer salespersons. I mean, I've done my homework, I know what I want, I know what your product is, so please, let's cut this antiquated horse-trading crap. Just tell me your price, and I'll decide from there.

As has been noted, OTD prices include a lot of fees that vary by state and location. Basic dealer markup is the same for almost all. Aside from taxes and registration, then, the only variables are freight charges (if applied) and dealer prep fees (ditto). Yes, some dealers waive these, but that's more of an exception than he rule; it's pretty much standard. Do some dealers charge more than others? Yeah. Too much? Well, that's for you to decide but it's probably not best to start your relationship with your dealer by suspecting they're jacking up fees to gouge customers.

As far as the need for salespeople, I've spent enough time hanging around dealers to know that the large majority of people who walk in the door haven't done the research and don't know what they're looking for. They've driven by a few times or were just walking by and are curious or interested without knowing exactly what they want or what they're getting. Salespeople are also there to make sell and make deals on gear, parts and accessories, all of which have higher markups than scooters. I've also learned a lot from hanging out and talking to dealers and salespeople. Good salespeople are essential to the success of a dealer and should be appreciated by the customers.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:01 am

charlie55 wrote:I know I'm gonna catch heat for this next statement, but for the life of me, I've never understood the need for dealer salespersons. I mean, I've done my homework, I know what I want, I know what your product is, so please, let's cut this antiquated horse-trading crap. Just tell me your price, and I'll decide from there.

On one level I agree with you. Like most of us here, I grew up in a culture where prices are expected to be posted up front and you don't have to haggle to avoid getting screwed. Unless you're buying a vehicle or a house, in which case you're pretty much assured of getting confused and roughly screwed unless you know the game yourself or have someone in the know to act as your agent. I hate that.

But I've also worked in sales (not in either of the aforementioned businesses, and not for very long) and I know that not everyone walks into a store knowing what they want or what they should get. Fortunately for me (and my customers) my sales experience was with a company whose philosophy was not to milk the customer for whatever they're willing to pay, but to help them get the right product for their needs, so they'll recommend it to their friends and also come back for their next purchase. I talked people out of buying the "Pro" model when they didn't need it, or suggested the cheaper "Mini" model when it was a good fit... unless it wasn't. In a situation like that, an informed and insightful "dealer salesperson" is invaluable... even to the customer.

kschulz · Post by **kschulz** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:23 am

Tenchi wrote:Gracious me, went to price out a Seafoam 125 Buddy and the out the door quote, including tax, license, dealer prep, and, I guess having Jay Leno due the set-up, was $3500! They had an April special with $50 off MSRP. The 150 was $4000 out the door!

Try making an offer? Don't know if the same is true in CA, but around here now is the busiest time of the year for new scooter sales, so you may not have much leverage. But if they have them sitting in the shop a little haggling couldn't hurt.

I picked up my 2009 Italia 150 in December for $3080 OTD.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:20 am

Eric, TVB:

You both make valid points in those cases where the salesperson is indeed knowledgeable. Unfortunately, and maybe it's just been bad luck on my part, the vast majority of those that I have encountered in years of vehicle purchases just have not fit that description. For the most part, the only function they served was to act as messengers, responding to every proposal with that famous line, "let me go talk to my manager". A function, I might add, that would be totally unnecessary were the entire process not based upon some derivation of an ancient Mesopotamian goat-trading ritual.

For me, the ideal compromise would be a two-tiered sales system, with tier 1 providing the standard schmooze and schmaltz orchestration for folks who like that sort of thing, and tier 2 being basically self-serve with an added discount for not using "services" that do not add any value to the transaction.

I guess that we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:36 am

charlie55 wrote:Eric, TVB:

You both make valid points in those cases where the salesperson is indeed knowledgeable. Unfortunately, and maybe it's just been bad luck on my part, the vast majority of those that I have encountered in years of vehicle purchases just have not fit that description. For the most part, the only function they served was to act as messengers, responding to every proposal with that famous line, "let me go talk to my manager". A function, I might add, that would be totally unnecessary were the entire process not based upon some derivation of an ancient Mesopotamian goat-trading ritual.

For me, the ideal compromise would be a two-tiered sales system, with tier 1 providing the standard schmooze and schmaltz orchestration for folks who like that sort of thing, and tier 2 being basically self-serve with an added discount for not using "services" that do not add any value to the transaction.

I guess that we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Oh, that's certainly been my experience at car dealerships. I guess I'm fortunate to have knowledgeable and friendly people at the scooter dealers I frequent. I know they're not all like that. Unfortunately, as much as we think scooters sell themselves, that's just not the case.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:42 am

Charlie55, I'm in your camp. My experiences and opinions on this subject mirror yours.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:50 am

Yeah, I really shouldn't have lumped scooters in with cages (although I've been to a couple of local motorcycle dealers whose practices were more like the latter than the former). In the case of the one scooter dealer with whom I dealt for the Blur, the entire dealership was a disaster from sales to service (botched paperwork, overfilled tranny, underfilled tires, badly adjusted carb, and damaged carb components). Hopefully that's why Genuine appears to have de-listed them. Props to them for that.

Let me just say that I think it'd be a lot easier for everyone if the advertised price was the actual OTD price. No surprises, and, in the case of less-than-honest dealerships, less opportunity to pull delivery and prep costs out of thin air.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:57 am

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:01 am

charlie55 wrote:Let me just say that I think it'd be a lot easier for everyone if the advertised price was the actual OTD price. No surprises, and, in the case of less-than-honest dealerships, less opportunity to pull delivery and prep costs out of thin air.

At my dealer (NoHo Scooters), they list the MSRP, then detail all the additional fees and have the OTD price at the bottom of the tag. Props to them for that.

Angela · Post by **Angela** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:04 am

ericalm wrote:At my dealer (NoHo Scooters), they list the MSRP, then detail all the additional fees and have the OTD price at the bottom of the tag. Props to them for that.

I have a very detailed invoice on what every charge is for when I bought my scooter.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:16 am

I agree that that's a standup policy. If I ruled the Universe (pretty ambitious since I only get a half-vote in my own house) I'd make it the law, and even go so far as to require that the practice extend to all advertising.

Speaking of hidden charges, ain't it wonderful the way cage dealers list rebate-loaded super discount prices, then explain the eligibility conditions in ultrafine print at the bottom of the page?

* Rebates only apply to repeat customers who have purchased a vehicle in the last 7 minutes while on active military duty with 22 college credits in pre-Colombian navel lint morphology

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:39 am

Of course we don't get to see what the dealer invoice is for the Buddy. That would be instructive. My guess is that it is at least 10 percent below the MSRP. If the MSRP is $3,100, shoot for about $2,850. Just a guess.

As for cars, a friend of mine who has been a sales manager for a few different auto makes once told me he'd be thrilled to sell every car for DEALER invoice. He'd still make plenty of money. In the car industry, dealers are offered incentives all the time. This information can usually be found online. Some dealers are up front and pass it along. Others will wait for you to mention it.

I paid well below MSRP for my Blur, but that was because they were trying to get rid of them. No way would I pay MSRP for anything. In this economy? Scooters included. If they won't come down of MSRP walk away. If you can, find another dealer and drive a few miles, it will be worth it.

Remind the dealer that there's plenty of used stuff out there. Heck, if you need transportation you can find a motorcycle for less than $500 that is either running or one carb cleaning away from it.

Of course the dealer might find enough buyer out there to pay over MSRP. Eventually he'll run out, and that's when he'll be more than happy to sell you a bike. It's like a stock. You don't go out and buy it when it's at its highest.

As for tax, there's nothing you can do about that. If they are tacking on more than $400 in other fees, screw them. Go elsewhere. If you can deliver a car for $650, you can deliver a scooter and prep it for that much. Please. You can prep a scooter in 10 minutes.

Bobltc · Post by **Bobltc** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:04 am

Mine was $4000, but I had every piece of chrome you can get added on it.

n2tattoos · Post by **n2tattoos** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:26 am

my 2009 Pamplona was $3,800 OTD.

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:46 am

This throws me a little. My 2008 125 was only $3000 OTD.

And I thought the pricing for this year only went up $100 if at all.

In fact, the scooter podcasts I listen to just did pricing for Buddys and it sounded like they're very close to last year's MSRP.

The rule of thumb is to add about 10% to the MSRP to get the OTD price. If you can't do it, shop elsewhere.

Gas is cheaper now, I suspect demand will wane a little (as gas stays low through the summer according the market indices).

So take the MSF course and keep shopping.

*Caveat, the Buddy is worth it at $5000.

kneil67@yahoo.com · Post by **kneil67@yahoo.com** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:57 am

siobhan wrote:
Ray Knobs wrote:
Kaos wrote:
When I picked up mine at Vespa Portland it was around $3100 if I remember right. So its not just a westcoast thing.
Did they move Portland?
Apparently there's a city out west that copied our Portland...I heard it doesn't snow nearly as much and that the beer is just as good.

I thought they moved it to Maine must be a Voodooo thing

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:22 pm

charlie55 wrote:with tier 1 providing the standard schmooze and schmaltz orchestration for folks who like that sort of thing,

If this dismissive attitude is really what you think retail sales help is about, or why some people want it, then you're never going to understand why it exists. It's not to satisfy people looking for conversation and attention; it's for people who want to see/hear/feel the product and want expert help figuring out what to buy. Not wanting to spend hours digging through the internets for info doesn't make one needy.

charlie55 wrote:and tier 2 being basically self-serve with an added discount for not using "services" that do not add any value to the transaction.

For most goods we have that; "tier 1" is brick-and-mortar retail and "tier 2" is online ordering. But you know what? You can often use b&m vehicle dealers for tier 2 as well. If you walk in to a dealership and hand the salesperson a low-but-reasonable offer he doesn't have to spend an hour of his time on, and saving him from the manipulative cat-and-mouse game that some customers play, he may just take it. Or if you want to reserve the right for a little bit of the pricing dance, you can state exactly what you want, explain that you're price-shopping, and politely ask for his best out-the-door bottom line. (That's basicly what I did; he added the usual freight, prep, etc to MSRP, but threw in the rear rack and the derestriction on the 50cc I'd asked for, for free.) I'm not promising that it will always work, but a good salesperson knows how to adapt to the customer.

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:05 pm

This is great in a way that everyone is communicating about their experiences and prices. Helps for a better informed and armed consumer. I do find that most scooter dealers do have the Out the Door pricing which means that all of that crap has been factored in so there isn't anything hidden. Price variations, besides differences in sales tax, really seem to depend mostly when the scooter was purchased. It's that same as motorcycles, the demand is much different in Spring versus Winter. Dealers are much more willing to deal in the Winter because they have to in order to keep their sales up. I know when I bought mine at POC there was no pressure, there was no haggling, but it was July and they had a long list of people who were waiting on their scooters to come in because demand was so high. I thought I was going to have to wait a month or two for mine, and then I apparently picked the magic color that they actually had in stock. But I knew I wasn't going to be able to really bargain shop, and I did ask, no one there works on commission so there is no "running to the manager".

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:45 pm

rickko wrote:
Tenchi wrote:Gracious me, ...
Well, a little bit of the added expense is California's new sales tax; nearly 9%!

License & registration fees also increased at the beginning of the year.

Considering that after state sales tax alone, the price is almost $3K, I can see how the OTD price is as high as $3500 after license and registration (which are not included in OTD prices in many states) and prep fees. This will effect OTD prices of all new scooters, regardless of make.

Kurt · Post by **Kurt** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:05 pm

I realize I'm taking a grave risk stepping into this conversation, but here goes!

At my shop Out the Door Pricing is printed on a tag hanging on each scooter.

The biggest piece of OTD Pricing is sales tax. Ours is 8%.

Along with sales tax we show the fees charged by the DMV. Those include $50 for a title issued by NY for any vehicle capable of going more than 40 MPH. The registration fee we include is an average, because it changes depending on which month the scooter is first registered. (All scooter/motorcycle registrations expire in April here in NY.)

Somebody made the claim "You can prep a scooter in 10 minutes." That's clearly NOT true if you want trouble-free operation. Genuine has a list that includes:

1 - Assembly
2 - Set up, charge & install battery
3 - Check/adjust tire pressure
4 - Check/adjust engine oil
5 - Check/adjust gear oil
6 - Check torque on wheel nuts
7 - Check torque on oil filter
8 - Start scooter
9 - Check electrical system
10 - Test ride

After the test ride we always wind up adjusting the carb for optimum performance.

This process on a Buddy is nowhere near as involved as what's needed for scooters ordered over the Internet (those basically need to be completely rebuilt!) but it's NOT "prep in 10 minutes". To do it right we allow an hour for each scooter, figuring it's better to spend the time BEFORE it goes out the door rather than risk having it come back later.

Someone else pointed out that time-of-year makes a big difference in the price of a scooter. Here in the North East you need to balance the price you're willing to pay against the amount of riding you'll get to do this year. We are just beginning to have temperatures over 50, so if you buy now you'll get the most use out of your scooter before putting it away for the winter.

You'll also find the best availability of models, colors and options right now. And the most competing buyers. So how would you expect the prices to compare to what you'll find during the end-of-year closeout sales?

Most dealers aren't out to gouge you, but we do need to make a living. "Make hay while the sun shines" is as true for scooter dealers as it is for farmers.

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:44 pm

You're a brave man, Kurt.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:12 pm

Kurt:

You're certainly not going to get any flak from me. I just wish that everyone had the same policy.

As I said before, I would really like to see such a policy extended to print and broadcast advertising as well - i.e., an itemized OTD price. I understand that such things as sales tax and doc fees are pretty much the same from dealer to dealer in a given area since they're more or less a percentage of the price or a fixed state tariff. I also realize that prep fees can vary depending upon the thoroughness/quality of the work being done.

But broad discrepancies in such things as, for lack of a better word, "discretionary" items (freight/delivery) would stand out like a sore thumb. (Assuming that the competing dealers were in close proximity to each other.)

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as cynical, but I guess we're all products of our environments and experiences. For me, that was the NYC of the 60's and 70's, where price negotiation was a contact sport and the winning party was the one that didn't take an ambulance ride.

Vic · Post by **Vic** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:27 pm

We have a shop here in Columbus (not a Genuine dealer) and they have their "no-haggle pricing," but they also add all of these extras on that you can't choose to not take with the purchase of the scooter.

In addition to the usual set up, taxes, title and all of that which you actually do need to purchase the vehicle, you also 'get' a "matching" helmet, the first oil change. You can't opt out of these things, even if you don't want them.

I was annoyed by this because I did not want a shorty helmet, and being forced to buy one with the scooter was just wrong, imo.

I could not do my own first service, but some people can and to be forced to buy that with your scooter struck me as wrong also.

My point is that all in one pricing is also someting that unscrupulous dealers can abuse.

-v

Modern Buddy

Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Something used, and blue....

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Re: Something used, and blue....

The Fly fit me pretty good...

Re: Something used, and blue....

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!

Re: Buddy hopes dashed by sticker shock!