What's up with the right hand U turn?
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- LuvMyScoot
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What's up with the right hand U turn?
I'm planning on taking the MSF course soon so I've been reading up on it as much as possible. I've also been reading about the Alt MOST test. Anywho, there seems to be alot of talk about right hand U turns. That's all fine and good but I can't imagine a time when I would need to make a right hand U turn, at least not in the U.S. Seems to me they should concentrate on left hand U turns, or am I missing something here?
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Shouldn't it be if you can't make a left hand U turn you shouldn't have a license? I can make a right hand U turn but fat lot of good that does me. Being right handed, I actually have a harder time with LEFT hand U turns, which is just the kind of U turn that might come in handy unless I move to England.Ray Knobs wrote:Maybe if you don't have enough skill to make a right turn you shouldn't have a license?
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I am right handed too and the right handed U turn was (is) more difficult for me than the far more natural feeling left U turn.
Maybe they figure if you are making a real left U turn you probably have about a lane and a half to do it in but if you are making a right U turn you are going to be needing to do it in a single lane and it takes more skill?
Also, generally right hand turns are going to be tighter than left turns, so if there is some kind of situation (crappy road edges, maybe storm drains and manhole covers, etc) you are going to need to have the kind of control required to handle a U turn. It seems to me these are more challenging in right turns because you have to deal with more of the crappy intersection *while you are in the turn* than happens in a left turn where you more often complete the turn part and then approach the nasty stuff.
Pure speculation, but there's my guess, FWIW.
-v
Maybe they figure if you are making a real left U turn you probably have about a lane and a half to do it in but if you are making a right U turn you are going to be needing to do it in a single lane and it takes more skill?
Also, generally right hand turns are going to be tighter than left turns, so if there is some kind of situation (crappy road edges, maybe storm drains and manhole covers, etc) you are going to need to have the kind of control required to handle a U turn. It seems to me these are more challenging in right turns because you have to deal with more of the crappy intersection *while you are in the turn* than happens in a left turn where you more often complete the turn part and then approach the nasty stuff.
Pure speculation, but there's my guess, FWIW.
-v
- LuvMyScoot
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Good to hear that the MSF teaches both. I don't have a problem with doing U turns (except, like I said, the right is easier for me). This was just a general wonderment I was having. I'm a little strange that way...louie wrote:i never thought of it that way. u turns are for everywhere. but i do wonder why right is on that test. on the brc you'll do both.
- LuvMyScoot
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Didn't think about the right hand U turn in conjunction with tight right hand turns. Good point.Vic wrote:I am right handed too and the right handed U turn was (is) more difficult for me than the far more natural feeling left U turn.
Maybe they figure if you are making a real left U turn you probably have about a lane and a half to do it in but if you are making a right U turn you are going to be needing to do it in a single lane and it takes more skill?
Also, generally right hand turns are going to be tighter than left turns, so if there is some kind of situation (crappy road edges, maybe storm drains and manhole covers, etc) you are going to need to have the kind of control required to handle a U turn. It seems to me these are more challenging in right turns because you have to deal with more of the crappy intersection *while you are in the turn* than happens in a left turn where you more often complete the turn part and then approach the nasty stuff.
Pure speculation, but there's my guess, FWIW.
-v
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I knew there had to be a reason. Lot's of good responses!jfrost2 wrote:It's probably the figure 8 maneuver they make you do in a small box. You make a left hand u turn, then a right hand u turn. They'll keep telling you to "turn your head in the direction you want to go, dont look at the front wheel"
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I'd imagine they're not testing your ability to turn around on a street, but to hold a turn in a controlled manner. There are roads that simply turn that much. If you want to get on a freeway, you might end up turning *more* than 180 degrees. Those situations probably aren't as tight as you'll be tested, but they're faster, as well. I think they are testing basic skills that translate to road skills, as opposed to pure road skills.
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Are you referring to doing figure 8 turns in the MSF Basic Rider course? No figure 8s in the MOST test, at least not in Ohio.jfrost2 wrote:It's probably the figure 8 maneuver they make you do in a small box. You make a left hand u turn, then a right hand u turn. They'll keep telling you to "turn your head in the direction you want to go, dont look at the front wheel"
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This.jfrost2 wrote:It's probably the figure 8 maneuver they make you do in a small box. You make a left hand u turn, then a right hand u turn. They'll keep telling you to "turn your head in the direction you want to go, dont look at the front wheel"
It is exactly what we had to do, first in a larger box and then in a smaller one. My test was in MO but I don't know what difference that would make.
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- ericalm
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So they were encouraging drinking and riding?!chloefpuff wrote:Our instructors said repeatedly that there is no real-world application for the notorious "u-turn in a box" other than a bar trick.
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- Coffeejunkie
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I wonder if they're talking about the figure eight portion of the class. I think pretty much every rider in my class had a little difficulty with that at first. In the end it's all about turning your head and shifting your weight. It may seem a little odd at first, but I've already used it a few times getting out of parking lots.LuvMyScoot wrote:Shouldn't it be if you can't make a left hand U turn you shouldn't have a license? I can make a right hand U turn but fat lot of good that does me. Being right handed, I actually have a harder time with LEFT hand U turns, which is just the kind of U turn that might come in handy unless I move to England.Ray Knobs wrote:Maybe if you don't have enough skill to make a right turn you shouldn't have a license?
- chloefpuff
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Absolutely not - they're pastors as well as motorcycle instructors. Do not let the irony escape you!!!!ericalm wrote:So they were encouraging drinking and riding?!chloefpuff wrote:Our instructors said repeatedly that there is no real-world application for the notorious "u-turn in a box" other than a bar trick.
so tough, so pink
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- jasondavis48108
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My instructor flat out told us that passing our test meant that we were qualified to ride in a parking lot:) I don't think the two U-turns in a box was meant to teach us super sweet road skills so much as to give us some experience with low speed tight quarter manuvers. It also forces you to really exagerate the head turn to turn the bike thing(if that makes any sense). btw I totaly screwed that one up. Lost 5 point on my test in that dredded box cause I put my foot down twice:) oh well, I havn't found too many boxes that I have to do figure 8s in on my way to work:)
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The instructors I had told our class the same thing. It really is true, I was great at riding around a parking lot by the end, but I still (and still do) had lots to learn about riding around city streets.jasondavis48108 wrote:My instructor flat out told us that passing our test meant that we were qualified to ride in a parking lot:)
- ericalm
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That's a good point. I had already been riding for some time when I took the course. The newbies who'd just graduated had probably done about 100 miles in 2 days, going from never having ridden to being able to complete basic maneuvers in a very controlled environment. The MSF is the best way to learn the fundamental riding skills you'd need on streets, but it's just the beginning.Coffeejunkie wrote:The instructors I had told our class the same thing. It really is true, I was great at riding around a parking lot by the end, but I still (and still do) had lots to learn about riding around city streets.jasondavis48108 wrote:My instructor flat out told us that passing our test meant that we were qualified to ride in a parking lot:)
I know it's hard to resist rushing out into traffic when you first get your scooter. You've been dreaming of all the places you'll ride it for some time. But it's best to start on side streets, have patience and practice a lot, and ease into heavier traffic and busier streets over time.
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My class was the exact opposite on the cone weave. I guess it was just a room full of CW naturals.mandyscoots wrote:The most difficult things for me and other riders when I took my test was cone weave (a lot of people failed this), and sudden stop.
You should really practice these. And just remember the cone weave is at a very slow speed, all about balance.
- jasondavis48108
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yup, same here, cone weave was just fine but most of us put our foot down at least once on the dredded box:) btw, I think that the absolutely most difficult part of the whole course was adjusting from a scooter which I had over 1000 miles on by the time I took the course, to the motorbike (and a motorbike with a very loose clutch at that) I don't care what anyone says, they are completly different to ride. My classmates were joking around saying they wish they could have done the test on my scoot, at least the box:) The most important thing I learned in that class was that you really can't beat a twist and go for city riding.
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- BeachBuzz
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I think Mandyscoots was referring to the cone weave in the driving test for a license, not the cone weave done in the MSF Class (I may be wrong but that was my take on the statement) - in my experience the two were very different. In the License Road Test the cones are spaced about 12' apart and 1' off centerline (2' apart), in the MSF class the cones were much farther apart and much easier to navigate - and were not part of the MSF evaluation. The figure 8 in the box was definately the trickiest part of the evaluation in the MSF class for everyone in my class. In Delaware there is NO figure 8 in the DMV License Test, but there is a 20' RH U turn.Coffeejunkie wrote:My class was the exact opposite on the cone weave. I guess it was just a room full of CW naturals.mandyscoots wrote:The most difficult things for me and other riders when I took my test was cone weave (a lot of people failed this), and sudden stop.
You should really practice these. And just remember the cone weave is at a very slow speed, all about balance.
In our MSF class we were repeatedly told that the exercises were not necessarily real world conditions and like someone else already stated we would be qualified to ride in an empty parking lot - only real world experience would qualify us to ride in the real world. Anyone can ride 2 wheels in a straight line and the faster you go (to a point) the easier it is. The hard part of riding is the slow speed manuvers and maintaining control without the help of momentum and speed. You may never encounter a situation where you need to do a RHU turn - but if you do wont you feel better knowing you have practiced it and done it in a controlled environment. Heck - when you're in the real world noone is gonna care if you get off the scoot and push it around in a 180 but it's nice to have the ability to do it like a skilled rider.
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I'm lucky that I don't have any problem with weaves; as long as the scoot is moving at all I can keep it balanced. My problem really is the tight turns; i'm 5'10" and most of that is leg. When i turn the handle bars too tightly I end up with it against my knee. I know I'm not supposed to put my foot down but sometimes I almost have to just to get my leg out of the way!mandyscoots wrote:The most difficult things for me and other riders when I took my test was cone weave (a lot of people failed this), and sudden stop.
You should really practice these. And just remember the cone weave is at a very slow speed, all about balance.