Is the stage 1 kit worth it??

jwarfield · Post by **jwarfield** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:40 pm

My wife and I are considering a stage 1 kit consisting of a Prima pipe, compression spring, roller weights, and new jets. In addition, I plan on adding a cone filter or modifying the existing air box.

My question is, will these mods actually improve the power, torque and speed or are we just throwing money away?

PS: she rides a Buddy 50 and I ride a Roughouse 50

Thanks!

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:41 pm

If you really want power, just buy the pipe, new jets, and the big bore 70cc kit. The springs and weights are total junk and wear out too fast.

If you really want weights, get Dr pulley sliders, scooterworks now sells 16x13 size for the roughhouse and buddy 50.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:42 pm

I can't preach enough about how big a fan I am of swapping the airbox for a filter and upjetting, you really will notice a difference there.

jwarfield · Post by **jwarfield** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Laxer:

If I were to swap the jets, what size do you recommend?

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:21 pm

I have no idea on a 50, sorry. Any other 50 riders (buddy or roughy, since it's the same engine) know?

Lil Buddy · Post by **Lil Buddy** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:50 pm

"Worth it" is a relative term. To me, yes, the stage 1 kit is worth it. I paid less then $200 and installed myself..... with help. Some would say $200 is to much for just a little gain. Others would disagree.

Don't expect to much. Do expect to take some time to tune everything. Acceleration and hill climbing greatly improved. Top end stayed the same (for now). I still need to fine tune my roller weights. I plan on getting the weight right then replacing the Prima rollers the Dr. Pulley sliders.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:59 am

jfrost2 wrote:If you really want power, just buy the pipe, new jets, and the big bore 70cc kit. The springs and weights are total junk and wear out too fast.

If you really want weights, get Dr pulley sliders, scooterworks now sells 16x13 size for the roughhouse and buddy 50.

I'd heard about the weights being junk, but I didn't know that the spring was garbage too. I'm definitly planning on getting a stage one kit of sorts. I'm going to ask my dealer if they wil install dr. pulley weights instead of the prima ones and if they do so If I can still keep my warranty. Does anyone know of a quality company that makes the springs or do you really not need to replace the spring to get the performance incrrease?

Post by **Lostmycage** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:08 am

Yep, that's the first I've heard of the springs being junk as well...

Skater29 · Post by **Skater29** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:35 am

How helpful would you think the stage 1 kit be for my Buddy 125?

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:19 am

The stage 1 for the 125 is just as junky. Just buy the pipe, the weights, all separate. Ignore Prima's weights, they wear out too quickly and cost too much.

Just buy the prima pipe, dr pulley sliders, and maybe a dr pulley variator.

Lil Buddy · Post by **Lil Buddy** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:55 am

Lostmycage wrote:Yep, that's the first I've heard of the springs being junk as well...

+1

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:44 pm

It's not really the spring being crap, it's the specs of the spring, 1500rpm spring would be much better in the stage 1 kit than the spring it comes with. Why waste money on crappy prima rollers and a spring that isnt top notch when you could buy everything separate, pay more, but have lasting and quality parts.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:18 pm

Well, it really depends on wether or not your dealer will install the pipe and the jet without the spring and rollers and still let you keep your warranty. It would be worth buying the whole kit and not installing the rollers or replacing them after install if thats the only way to keep the warranty intact.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:22 pm

Buying the kit, then buying better parts is a useless idea and cost too much money. It's more expensive to buy sliders, the pipe, and the springs separate, but it's more worth it. Plus the warranty is still in tact if the dealer does the install. But I don't really care about the warranty claims Genuine makes, by law, mods you do to your bike, if they don't harm the bike, they cant remove your warranty.

If you install the prima pipe yourself, genuine claims your warranty is voided, but they cant do that by law technically. So if your electrical system in the front has a short somewhere, they will still have to honor it.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:23 pm

thats good to know jfrost2, I just got back from my dealer and he said it shouldn't be a problem to use the Dr. pulley sliders instead of the prima rollers when i get the stage 1 kit put on

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:38 pm

jfrost2 wrote:Buying the kit, then buying better parts is a useless idea and cost too much money. It's more expensive to buy sliders, the pipe, and the springs separate, but it's more worth it. Plus the warranty is still in tact if the dealer does the install. But I don't really care about the warranty claims Genuine makes, by law, mods you do to your bike, if they don't harm the bike, they cant remove your warranty.

If you install the prima pipe yourself, genuine claims your warranty is voided, but they cant do that by law technically. So if your electrical system in the front has a short somewhere, they will still have to honor it.

Which law is this?

mojobuddy70cc · Post by **mojobuddy70cc** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:30 am

,,the rpm`s the new weights (lighter) will increase to top up your "performance" it comes w/a price, hi`er rpm`s =heat. so think about oil also. not a huge fan of syns, ($$) but it is a cleaner burn in your 2t=less ,less gunk.
if you move onto a stage 2 kit, you will have to use the stock weights to lower the rpms, ( this i know from experience)
as far as a uni filter, go for it! you`ll need rejetting, mine is a 19mm. i get about 65 mpg. so if you`re a fuelly hound that might be an issue. it still beats the shit outta my jeep.
,my 70cc will smoke about any 50 i come across ( aprilla w/ a kit will fly, fuel injection tires ,etc),, it has power when you need it and the lil engine does run WOT in the city to get outta the way.
,,go for it

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:22 am

Cheshire wrote: Which law is this?

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act http://www.free-lemon-law-guide.com/the ... ss-act.php

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:21 am

B02S4 wrote:
Cheshire wrote: Which law is this?
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act http://www.free-lemon-law-guide.com/the ... ss-act.php

Thats not my understanding of the Magnuson-Moss act. It states(from memory) that the manufacturer cannot force you to use a specific repair location for warranty work unless they are willing to pay for 100% of it...

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:25 am

Kaos wrote: ...Thats not my understanding of the Magnuson-Moss act. ...

What's not your understanding?

Here's the full text from the US Code: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/2301.html

Post by **Lostmycage** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:26 am

jfrost2 wrote:Buying the kit, then buying better parts is a useless idea and cost too much money. It's more expensive to buy sliders, the pipe, and the springs separate, but it's more worth it. Plus the warranty is still in tact if the dealer does the install. But I don't really care about the warranty claims Genuine makes, by law, mods you do to your bike, if they don't harm the bike, they cant remove your warranty.

If you install the prima pipe yourself, genuine claims your warranty is voided, but they cant do that by law technically. So if your electrical system in the front has a short somewhere, they will still have to honor it.

I agree. The kit doesn't really seem worth it, mainly because of the rollers. They're made of some sort of super soft material and wear flat in less that 500 miles.

Also, you are correct, if you void the warranty on the engine and then have a defective electrical issue, they'll honor that.

Although I agree with what you're saying about the warranty not being voided if you install it yourself, I think it's necessary to state that it has to be installed correctly.

For the following, let's say that the owner of the bike performs all installs themselves. If for example, there's a leak in the exhaust because one of the nuts are not installed tight enough, the engine would run lean and wear out the piston. I wouldn't expect to get my warranty honored. If the pipe is installed and the carb not re-jetted or checked and the engine runs lean, that's the owner's fault. If too light of rollers are installed and the owner over-revs the bike, that's on them as well. There's a certain amount of accountability that you've got to take if you want to dig into the bike like this. Voodoo ain't shiny rainbows and gentle clouds.

If the manufacturer honors the warranty for the above situations, they're being generous. But they'd have every reason to deny a warranty repair if negligence is obvious.

Simply stated, if you install it yourself, you should be willing to take the responsibility fully. Sure you'll pay a bit extra for the shop to do it, but you can fall back on them if something goes wrong.

If you're gonna upgrade or mod, for the love of all that's sacred to you, do your damned homework! [/rant]

That is all

Modern Buddy

Is the stage 1 kit worth it??

Is the stage 1 kit worth it??

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