Scooter won't start/hold idle

[iinigma7]

I bought my Italia last August and up until last December it ran awesome. Then it started backfiring and stalling out, and then it wouldn't start. So I took it to a local bike shop (not a buddy dealer). They checked everything out, cleaned out the carb and fixed a loose coil on #10 and it ran great for about 20 mins. Then when I got on it to go home from work for the day it started doing the exact same thing. Stalling out. Not starting.

So last Saturday I hauled it 2 hrs away to the dealer where I purchased it, and they did an oil change, changed a bad spark plug, and charged me $92. The scooter was running great at the dealer so they said it was good to go and sent me on my way. I got it home and went for a ride...30 mins of winding country road bliss in the warm spring-time SC weather. I took it back home, and a few hours later I went to go for another ride...no dice. It just won't start again.

So now I'm really frustrated. I've siphoned the tank and put in new gas, had a new spark plug put in, and two shops have looked at it, and thought they fixed it. I know a few people have had trouble with bad stators. Could that be it?

I'm at my wits end. It wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't 2 hrs from the dealer...it's really a chore to get it there. Also, is my dealer screwing me over? It seems to me like repairs such as this should be covered by my warranty. When he charged me for the labor and parts I was a little surprised. They insisted that the warranty only covers major parts though, and I was just happy to get my ride back, so I paid.

If anyone has any suggestions or has had a similar experience please help. Also, any advice regarding the genuine warranty and what it covers would be greatly appreciated as well. I just don't have the cash to leave the scooter there and pay $70 per hour while they diagnose, fix, ride for 20+ mins, let scooter sit, test, fail, rinse/repeat.

Thanks in advance!

[illnoise]

To be fair to the first mechanic, when someone comes in with that problem (what looks on the surface like fuel issues, and ESPECIALLY if they're not a trained Buddy mech,) they're going to address the most common cause first, which is a clogged-up carb. That happens a lot, on any scooter or motorcycle, especially one that is used only seasonally or infrequently (riding every day keeps the carb happy). And they're not a Genuine dealer, so even if they were doing warranty work, they're not getting reimbursed for it. I don't know why they messed with the stator, but if they saw the loose coil and fixed it, then that would be two ways in which they thought they took care of your problem, and hopefully they didn't screw anything up worse in the meantime. They addressed the problem as they saw fit, and you never gave them a chance to re-examine the bike when the problem persisted, which was actually smart, because you should have taken it to the dealer in the first place. So write that off as a learning experience.

On to the dealer, $92 is about the price of a regular first service (oil change, new plug, new filter, etc) at most dealers. So, assuming you were due for a service, they probably figured the service might take care of the problems, and you were due anyway, so it was a good first step to see if it took care of the problem. It didn't, so take it back and tell them the symptoms as clearly as possible, and be sure to tell them what the first dealer did, in detail. He could have adjusted something improperly due to his lack of experience that caused a second problem or made the first one worse. If that's the case, warranty isn't going to cover any mistakes the first mechanic made, but it may help the dealer diagnose the problem.

It could be a stator problem, it happens, but I don't think there's a systematic defective stator problem that some people seem to believe. I'll tell you right now, the dealer's going to want to clean the carb, because they didn't do it themselves so they don't know if it was done right, and again, that's the most common cause. Don't mess with it yourself because you're just adding another layer of confusion, too many cooks can definitely f**k up the soup. If it turns out to be a warranty issue, they'll be reimbursed and they're not going to make you pay for the repairs, but consider the first mechanic (however good he is) wasn't a dealer, and the $92 you paid the dealer was basically an oil change (if you weren't due for an oil change, then you may have an issue.) Again, be very clear about the symptoms, and then hopefully they'll be able to diagnose it better. When they claim it's repaired, ask them to keep it a couple days longer to ride it and make sure it starts with a hot and cold engine.

Bb.

[iinigma7]

Quick update: I took the scoot in to the dealer again last Saturday, and this time they found that it had a bad magneto. The part is on order and hopefully this will fix it for a good while.

What exactly is a magneto and has anyone else ever have one go bad on their Buddy?

[illnoise]

I don't think the term "Magneto" isn't used much these days, does your dealer work mostly on vintage chainsaws? : )

They could be talking about the stator system in general (the flywheel and the stator plate that holds the various ignition components behind the flywheel), or one of the specific ignition coils that generate electricity as the magnet in the flywheel spins around them. I'm not sure exactly how the Buddy works, but usually there's one coil that generates a charge, and another that ramps it up to the voltage needed for the spark plug.

Coils do go bad, even if they're carefully manufactured and tested, so it could just be bad luck.

Replacing a coil or the whole stator plate is fairly simple, they'll probably just chuck the whole unit and slap a new one on, but I wish someone would troubleshoot it and see what this alleged "common stator problem" really is, it might be something incredibly simple or obvious like a wire stripping from friction, or a specific coil that's failing more often than it should. Or if a different electrical problem is *causing* coils to fail, or if it's just the easiest thing to blame problems on because it's mysterious.

Bryan

[iinigma7]

Thanks for the explanation Bryan.

Haha. Yeah I don't know if they do much with vintage chainsaws or not, but the mechanic mentioned that he honestly isn't that familiar with the Buddy engine because he rarely sees any with trouble after they leave the store. So that said, I'm glad that he seems to have been able to drill down to the root cause of the problem.

[Keys]

Also, make sure they check the wiring harness...particularly the coil to harness wires...for continuity. I had a LOT of it break inside the insulation where nobody could find it. I cleaned the carb. About 40 times. I replaced the spark plug. I had one dealer replace the stator. I had another rework the carb, rejet the carb, play with the air intake...EVERYthing. Finally I took it home and played with it and began wriggling wires while it was running (poorly, I might add). I discovered that it would change how it ran as I wriggled the wires. I replaced portions of the wiring harness with good quality wire and that is eventually what fixed the problem. Others have had the entire harness replaced. Apparently, PGO is using somewhat substandard wiring in the harness.

Before a lot of stuff is needlessly replaced, please have your dealer check the wiring for continuity.

--Keys

[iinigma7]

^ Will do. Thanks for the tip Keys.

[dawg onit]

had same prob, fooled with all the wires and gas lines with no luck. then i lifted my seat, unscrewed the phillips bolt & pushed the first connection you see together & boom. maybe thats why it happened every 30 or so miles for you. no oil change or anything, now it runs like brand stinking new.if any one reads this try it before you get it serviced.it appeared to be connected, but i think the bumpy streets caused the " short like " symptoms.hope this helps someone as it took over an hour for me to discover. mine had the head light flickering which helped me to think it was a connection problem.

[Lostmycage]

Nice first post! Welcome to ModernBuddy.

Although this is an older post, it is timely. There's been a number of posts lately about having trouble starting. These scoots don't like to sit unused.

I think that connection you're speaking of is the enricher (or auto-choke). It becoming unplugged would definitely effect start-ups, especially cold ones.

[jrsjr]

had same prob, fooled with all the wires and gas lines with no luck. then i lifted my seat, unscrewed the phillips bolt & pushed the first connection you see together & boom.

Hey dawg, welcome to Modern Buddy. Do you have a way to post a photo of exactly what you are referring to? Thanks!

[dawg onit]

im gonna try, my lady is alot better with computer, give me twenty mins

[dawg onit]

I can't get it to post.... but the part looks just like two extension chord ends going into each other

[Kaos]

I can't get it to post.... but the part looks just like two extension chord ends going into each other

He's talking about the idle enrichener circuit. Its the more modern equivelent to a choke, and if it gets stuck on it could absolutely cause this. And welcome to the forum Dawg

[Lostmycage]

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