Turbocharger?

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:06 am

I'm just curious if anybody has turbocharged (or more or less seriously looked into turbocharging) their 4 stroke.

Obviously it is not really feasible on a 2 stroke, or I'd consider playing around with it.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:27 am

Yeah, I've seriously tried it. Its REALLY hard to get a turbo small enough.
Though the Pugeot Jetforce is a supercharged 125cc scooter.

If you want to do it, I've got a lot of info stored up on it but its gonna be rough....

cadillaczac · Post by **cadillaczac** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:39 am

One of the guys I work with now worked for a company called Turbonectics (one of the leading manufacturers of turbochargers) for almost ten years, and we started talking about this very subject. He recalled a company that made a very small turbo that ran on a auxillary type battery. The turbine was driven directly off the battery and not the exhaust, making for a less complicated set up which we think maybe able to wing it into a scooter. I figured with a little bit of modification to the intake system, this set up would be feasible.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:56 am

cadillaczac wrote:One of the guys I work with now worked for a company called Turbonectics (one of the leading manufacturers of turbochargers) for almost ten years, and we started talking about this very subject. He recalled a company that made a very small turbo that ran on a auxillary type battery. The turbine was driven directly off the battery and not the exhaust, making for a less complicated set up which we think maybe able to wing it into a scooter. I figured with a little bit of modification to the intake system, this set up would be feasible.

I've never found an electric turbo that was actually capable of producing any boost whatsoever. Plus, one that did would likely be too much strain for the Buddy's stator.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:16 am

Turbocharged 2T Vespa:
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42hp—nearly triple what it gets stock.

Vespa LX with electric turbo:
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic8127

Here's a turbo Kymco Xciting 500:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h2XvPn60LM

And this beast that looks like MRP may have customized it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUJk0N3byb0
(Same model—prolly same scoot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TylF6_xalIw)

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:19 am

ericalm wrote:Turbocharged 2T Vespa:
<object width="425px" height="360px" ><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><param name="wmode" value="transparent"/><param name="movie" value="http://mediaservices.myspace.com/servic ... o"/><embed src="http://mediaservices.myspace.com/servic ... 1,mt=video" width="425" height="360" allowFullScreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed></object>

42hp—nearly triple what it gets stock.

Vespa LX with electric turbo:
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic8127

Here's a turbo Kymco Xciting 500:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h2XvPn60LM

And this beast that looks like MRP may have customized it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUJk0N3byb0
(Same model—prolly same scoot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TylF6_xalIw)

Aww, man. That guy is claiming that the electric charger actually works!!! Why did you have to show this to me!

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:13 am

The thing that always gets me about over clocking the engine is that most people don't upgrade the other components to go along with the extra horsepower. When I was going the so far max speed of my Buddy 50, 59mph indicated, I knew that the brakes for sure weren't up to that speed if anything untoward happened. The suspension isn't that great either. I'm still thinking of the 70 cc kit however.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:02 am

Kaos wrote:Aww, man. That guy is claiming that the electric charger actually works!!! Why did you have to show this to me!

Well, there wasn't much of a follow up on that. No dyno results or anything like that. So it could have been total crap.

cadillaczac · Post by **cadillaczac** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:13 am

It was figured that the "battery operated" turbo produced anywhere from 2-4 lbs. of boost. I work with a lot of guys that know turbos in and out, so I'll see if I can get the jist of this tommorow and see what the reality of it would really be. I figure if these guys can build seven second cars, they should be able to figure out how to soop up a scoot. Hell, if they get really into it, my Buddy might just be in our booth at Sema next year.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:13 am

cadillaczac wrote:It was figured that the "battery operated" turbo produced anywhere from 2-4 lbs. of boost. I work with a lot of guys that know turbos in and out, so I'll see if I can get the jist of this tommorow and see what the reality of it would really be. I figure if these guys can build seven second cars, they should be able to figure out how to soop up a scoot. Hell, if they get really into it, my Buddy might just be in our booth at Sema next year.

That would be awesome to find out.
I build a lot of fast cars, but I've actually only done 1 turbo car. A 225ci 6 cyl 1972 Plymouth Duster.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:45 am

Kaos wrote:
cadillaczac wrote:It was figured that the "battery operated" turbo produced anywhere from 2-4 lbs. of boost. I work with a lot of guys that know turbos in and out, so I'll see if I can get the jist of this tommorow and see what the reality of it would really be. I figure if these guys can build seven second cars, they should be able to figure out how to soop up a scoot. Hell, if they get really into it, my Buddy might just be in our booth at Sema next year.
I've never seen a battery operated "turbo" that could actually generate boost. Every one I have seen is really a modified (or not) boat bilge blower that only moves air and is not capable of compressing it- two different things.

The 2t turbo looks sick. I can't imagine the tuning needed to get that to work on a 2t- once backpressure builds in the exhaust, cylinder scavenging stops and the engine would run terribly (I expect). I can't imagine the bike is much more than an on/off bike as I can't imagine that they can tune in part throttle and a workable boost transition given the scavenge issue. At least I have no clue how to go about doing it.

I also wonder how they keep the turbo oiled.

JSharpPhoto · Post by **JSharpPhoto** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:30 pm

turbo-schmurbo. Flux Capacitor Bitches! 1.21 Giggawatts!!!

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:48 pm

In the olden days when it was said you turbocharged to a 2 stroke, you added an expansion chamber, because the chamber does acts just like a turbocharger without the mechanical movement.
To run a mechanical turbo on a single cylinder motor will be an interesting feat, to make it street able will be nearly impossible because of the lag times.
Like mentioned above, nobody makes an electric turbo worth a hoot.
To get 4X power using existing internal motor components would be another interesting feat as well. Jut to get 4X power from a turbo would also be an interesting proposition.

And, if this were all possible, within reason, it would be more wide spread.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:06 pm

Quote: "I've never seen a battery operated "turbo" that could actually generate boost. Every one I have seen is really a modified (or not) boat bilge blower that only moves air and is not capable of compressing it- two different things."

Then you've probably never run across a brushless motor in a ducted fan unit before.

In the RC (radio control) world, we use these to produce upwards of 18 or so pounds of boost to fly model jets. A few months ago, I thought about using a smaller fan unit in my Blur, but two things got in the way; 1) the stock electrical system can't handle the Amp load (I'm working on a solution), and 2) a quote from someone on the Modern Vespa site which is the biggest hurtle:

Quote: "There are very few cases of turbos and carbs playing well together that I know of in the car world. I looked into a turbo set-up for my volvo p1800 (yeah I know crazy ) and when I dug into the details the think really started to sound troublesome at best. Causing the engine to run too lean is the biggest issue - so you then re-jet the carbs to get more fuel in. Fine. The problem is then, when the turbo is not producing boost (low rpm or part throttle), you are then running too rich."

Maybe if the Blur 220 F.I. becomes available here, I'll definitely look into it again.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:09 pm

babblefish wrote:Quote: "I've never seen a battery operated "turbo" that could actually generate boost. Every one I have seen is really a modified (or not) boat bilge blower that only moves air and is not capable of compressing it- two different things."

Then you've probably never run across a brushless motor in a ducted fan unit before. In the RC (radio control) world, we use these to produce upwards of 18 or so pounds of boost to fly model jets. A few months ago, I thought about using a smaller fan unit in my Blur, but two things got in the way; 1) the stock electrical system can't handle the Amp load (I'm working on a solution), and 2) a quote from someone on the Modern Vespa site which is the biggest hurtle:

Quote: "There are very few cases of turbos and carbs playing well together that I know of in the car world. I looked into a turbo set-up for my volvo p1800 (yeah I know crazy ) and when I dug into the details the think really started to sound troublesome at best. Causing the engine to run too lean is the biggest issue - so you then re-jet the carbs to get more fuel in. Fine. The problem is then, when the turbo is not producing boost (low rpm or part throttle), you are then running too rich."

Maybe if the Blur 220 F.I. becomes available here, I'll definitely look into it again.

You can turbo carbureted vehicles, I've personally done it. Especially if you use a draw-through method its really not that hard. Blow through is much more of a problem to keep in tune.

cadillaczac · Post by **cadillaczac** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:02 am

I got some input from the guys at work, and they think we'd have better luck hooking a blow dryer up than a turbo...Some input, thanks guys.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:57 am

Kaos wrote: You can turbo carbureted vehicles, I've personally done it. Especially if you use a draw-through method its really not that hard. Blow through is much more of a problem to keep in tune.

In the auto world, it is actually becoming relatively popular. Harder to tune, but not impossible to get a streetable setup, even with a blow through.

JNV · Post by **JNV** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:40 am

I have tried an electric turbo charger on a 50cc engine. It was my buddy's idea. We fried all the electronics on it and gave up. The one time it did work it was pretty cool.

toycoma98 · Post by **toycoma98** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:32 am

I did a custom turbo setup on my 4 cyl. Toyota tacoma pickup truck. I drive that thing everyday. (search me on youtube: toycoma98)

I really wanna try it out on my scooter. MBE motorsports is developing a GY6 Turbo kit.

I think its easy. There is a fuel injector mounted on a spacer with the carb controlled by a programable computer. The scooter could be driven normal without hitting boost but only part throttle. So when full throttle or a certain RPM the turbo will start spooling and make boost. Thats when the injector starts spraying fuel. It must be tuned with a wideband gauge and a Boost gauge is also required.

Just like on my truck i can drive all day without hitting boost. I gotta figure out how to do that with the turbo kit on the scooter.

I think i can do it but i need more research and email mbe motorsports more about the turbo kit.

Modern Buddy

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