An "eventful" ride

[Howardr]

I planned on taking a 200 mile, Iron Butt preparation ride yesterday. I went riding out through the southern Arizona desert on a beautiful, sunny day. Let me preface the entire adventure by saying that at NO time, did I cease having a good time. Event a day fill with breakdowns is good when I'm out on my scooter.


You can read the entire saga of my ride on my blog, so I won't write it all out here:
http://inthedesertscootin.blogspot.com/

To summarize: I started out, my gas mileage dropped for no apparent reason, at the time and I ran out of gas. A first for me. Later, I started hearing abnormal exhaust sounds which results in my entire Prima pipe, all the way to the manifold, working its way off. The bracket bolts sheared off and the nuts on the bolts under the scoot worked their way off. I finally wound up having to call my son to be picked up.
I did learn the a buddy will fit quite nice in the back of a Dodge Caravan.

There are some pics from the ride itself as well. Now for some pics taken of the aftermath:

The red arrow shows where the upper pipe bracket (yellow arrow) should attach. Green arrows are clothes hangers.

Red arrow is whats left of the bolt protruding from the back of the brace.

A front view of the same brace from the previous pic. You can see the fractured end of the bolt.

I removed the bracket. You can see the ends of both fractured bolts.

Here's a view of the manifold. Both bolts look good to me. I don't know why they picked yesterday to fall off.

Howard

[Lostmycage]

It looked like you might have accidentally posted this in an unrelated thread so sent it to it's own thread.

This explains the manifold question the other day. That's some really sour luck, Howard! Did the mounting bolts sheer off or rattle loose (then sheer)? It seems that as soon as they loosened up enough, the weight of the pipe compressed the crush exhaust gasket enough to let air in. That probably caused massive backfiring on decellerations and caused the engine to run way lean.

When you replace the exhaust, be sure to change out your oil and inspect the plug, etc. Running it down that hard and that fast (too bad it wasn't any other trip, right!?) might have some hidden ill effects.

[Kaos]

It looked like you might have accidentally posted this in an unrelated thread so sent it to it's own thread.

This explains the manifold question the other day. That's some really sour luck, Howard! Did the mounting bolts sheer off or rattle loose (then sheer)? It seems that as soon as they loosened up enough, the weight of the pipe compressed the crush exhaust gasket enough to let air in. That probably caused massive backfiring on decellerations and caused the engine to run way lean.

When you replace the exhaust, be sure to change out your oil and inspect the plug, etc. Running it down that hard and that fast (too bad it wasn't any other trip, right!?) might have some hidden ill effects.

+1, you likely REALLY leaned out. Go over the motor, and check for shavings in the oil!

It seems that the only way this could have happened that I can think of is that the bolts were a little loose to begin with. Mine have loosend themselves up before, so I know it's not impossible!

Sorry about the poor luck!

[Lostmycage]

This actually reminds me of why I keep a small bundle of zip-ties in my carry on tool kit on my bikes. You could just cinch up the brackets through their mounting holes, should something like this happen again. Hopefully it won't!

[Tocsik]

Howard, I notice a post with an "exhaust question" (topic14226.html) the day before this post.

Were you working on the exhaust before your ride?

*Edit* : I read this again and realized how it might sound. Just wondering if anything was done that the rest of should watch out for.

[lmyers]

Shoulda taken the Stella.

[Howardr]

Howard, I notice a post with an "exhaust question" (topic14226.html) the day before this post.

Were you working on the exhaust before your ride?

No, I posted that immediately after the ride. I didn't have much information at that time, since it was dark, but I had noticed the studs sticking out of the manifold. I just wanted to make sure that the tops of those hadn't sheared off as well.

The Prima pipe had been on for the better part of a year and I hadn't had any problems with it.

+1 to checking the spark plug and changing the oil etc.

"This explains the manifold question the other day. That's some really sour luck, Howard! Did the mounting bolts sheer off or rattle loose (then sheer)? It seems that as soon as they loosened up enough, the weight of the pipe compressed the crush exhaust gasket enough to let air in. That probably caused massive backfiring on decellerations and caused the engine to run way lean."
I'm pretty sure the mounting bolts just sheared off. I check everything before most rides and hadn't seen anything. There was definitely some backfiring before I gave up and called for a ride home.

Howard

[Lostmycage]

Don't forget the blue thread locker when you reinstall the exhaust!

[ericalm]

Cripes! Eventful, indeed.

Did you have any persistent noises or anything preceding the bolts failing?

Also: IRON BUTT! Are you attempting this on the Buddy?!

[Howardr]

Eric, no. the only thing was a change in the sound of the exhaust, but that was AFTER the bolts had failed.

One other thing, when you use Grade #8 bolts to secure something. you can't drill a hole in it to use a bolt extractor. I took the whole piece to Ace Hardware and 30 minutes, one broken drill bit for "hardened metal" and 2 employees later, we got the remains of the bolts out of the bracket.

Iron Butt - As long as the Buddy holds together, he and I are doing a 1000 mile in 24 hours Iron Butt ride. The plan is to do it in March so night time temperatures are a bit warmer. I'll be doing 500 miles out and back. That means from Tucson to Odessa, TX and back. Dude, that's a long way.

Howard

[ericalm]

Iron Butt - As long as the Buddy holds together, he and I are doing a 1000 mile in 24 hours Iron Butt ride. The plan is to do it in March so night time temperatures are a bit warmer. I'll be doing 500 miles out and back. That means from Tucson to Odessa, TX and back. Dude, that's a long way.

I guess that's the most sensible direction to go in to do 500 miles in as little time as possible, but it's certainly not the most scenic ride!

[pimaCanyon]

Iron Butt - As long as the Buddy holds together, he and I are doing a 1000 mile in 24 hours Iron Butt ride. The plan is to do it in March so night time temperatures are a bit warmer. I'll be doing 500 miles out and back. That means from Tucson to Odessa, TX and back. Dude, that's a long way.

I guess that's the most sensible direction to go in to do 500 miles in as little time as possible, but it's certainly not the most scenic ride!

agreed!

Howard, sorry to hear of your Buddy's misfortune but glad you made it home okay.

Ericalm, you seem to know the territory, what would you recommend for a SCENIC Iron Butt that would be an out-and-back or a loop starting and ending in Tucson?

[Kaos]

Way to go on the iron butt! I've toyed with the idea of trying it myself, but I don't really have the time right now to do it. Let us know how it goes!

[ericalm]

I know Texas but not Arizona so well. It appears that the problems with heading in other directions from Tucson are that you'd either cross into Mexico, have to cross some serious desert, or run up to the mountains. For the Iron Butt, you probably just want to cover as much distance as possible as fast as possible. For scenery, well… hope you like desert landscapes—you live in Tucson! You can head north for the forests and mountains, but it's a couple hundred miles before you're even close, right?

[Howardr]

It would be much more scenic to go to Flagstaff and over to Santa Fe or even into Colorado or Utah. The problem is climbing. To do that route on a motorcycle would be easy. However, small scooters don't climb hills well.
I have to average 50 REAL mph in order to complete the ride in 20 hours, leaving 4 hours for rest, fuel and food stops. That's a tall order for a 150cc scoot. There are hills out here where your speed will drop down to 35mph. That KILLS your average speed.
I had previously plotted our several routes taking minor highways like I use for regular club or personal rides. Again, though, the problem is maintaining that average speed. Every time I come into a small town, I would have to worry about slower speed limits, stop signs/light, etc. Not to mention that I would have a bigger concern about wildlife on back roads at night, than on interstate.
So, taking interstate 10 won't be too interesting, but this run is all about making the best time possible.

Howard

[pimaCanyon]

It would be much more scenic to go to Flagstaff and over to Santa Fe or even into Colorado or Utah. The problem is climbing. To do that route on a motorcycle would be easy. However, small scooters don't climb hills well.
I have to average 50 REAL mph in order to complete the ride in 20 hours, leaving 4 hours for rest, fuel and food stops. That's a tall order for a 150cc scoot. There are hills out here where your speed will drop down to 35mph. That KILLS your average speed.
I had previously plotted our several routes taking minor highways like I use for regular club or personal rides. Again, though, the problem is maintaining that average speed. Every time I come into a small town, I would have to worry about slower speed limits, stop signs/light, etc. Not to mention that I would have a bigger concern about wildlife on back roads at night, than on interstate.
So, taking interstate 10 won't be too interesting, but this run is all about making the best time possible.

Howard

but you have a Stella, right? With the two stroke engine doesn't it have enough power to climb without losing speed? (don't know much about that scoot, so I'm just asking here.)

I could see doing my own variation of the iron butt: maybe ride dawn to dusk and just see how far I get. But I'd wanna do it partly for the scenery and partly for the fun of the ride. Doing a twisty mountain road would offer both.

[pimaCanyon]

I know Texas but not Arizona so well. It appears that the problems with heading in other directions from Tucson are that you'd either cross into Mexico, have to cross some serious desert, or run up to the mountains. For the Iron Butt, you probably just want to cover as much distance as possible as fast as possible. For scenery, well… hope you like desert landscapes—you live in Tucson! You can head north for the forests and mountains, but it's a couple hundred miles before you're even close, right?

There are mountains close to Tucson, the Sky Islands they call them. Tucson has a range just outside of the city limits in each of the 4 directions. Two of those ranges (to the north and south) rise to over 9,000 feet. The one to the east rises to near 9,000. The one to the west is smaller, only a little over 5000. There are several other ranges to the east: Mt Graham at 10,000, the Dragoons and the Chiricahuas.

However, this road into the White Mountains northeast of Tucson looks like an awesome ride (but maybe a bit scary!)

http://www.motorcycleroads.us/roads/az_us191.html

May have to check it out--or at least part of it--later this year when the weather warms up. If you zoom in on google maps, you'll see it's just one hairpin turn after another.

[pimaCanyon]

...
So, taking interstate 10 won't be too interesting, but this run is all about making the best time possible.

Howard

aack! I just reread your post and noticed this last sentence. You are going to do 1000 miles in 24 hours on an Interstate hwy on a Buddy!! You are way braver than I am! Maybe a little insane too. (I say that in a complimentary way. I know about insane 'cause I are insane myself at times. I've done very long day hikes--18 hours or so--covering many miles and boocoo elevation gain, also very long one day bike rides, so I can relate to this iron butt thing, except for the interstate hwy part of it!)

[Syd]

Best of luck on the Iron Butt, Howard! Hope you can make it.

Have you ridden the section from Benson in? There's a pretty good elevation difference between Tucson and Benson, isn't there? This is one of the few times you wished you lived in Kansas!

[Howardr]

I know Texas but not Arizona so well. It appears that the problems with heading in other directions from Tucson are that you'd either cross into Mexico, have to cross some serious desert, or run up to the mountains. For the Iron Butt, you probably just want to cover as much distance as possible as fast as possible. For scenery, well… hope you like desert landscapes—you live in Tucson! You can head north for the forests and mountains, but it's a couple hundred miles before you're even close, right?

There are mountains close to Tucson, the Sky Islands they call them. Tucson has a range just outside of the city limits in each of the 4 directions. Two of those ranges (to the north and south) rise to over 9,000 feet. The one to the east rises to near 9,000. The one to the west is smaller, only a little over 5000. There are several other ranges to the east: Mt Graham at 10,000, the Dragoons and the Chiricahuas.

However, this road into the White Mountains northeast of Tucson looks like an awesome ride (but maybe a bit scary!)

http://www.motorcycleroads.us/roads/az_us191.html

May have to check it out--or at least part of it--later this year when the weather warms up. If you zoom in on google maps, you'll see it's just one hairpin turn after another.

US 191 is a great road to ride. I haven't yet done it on 2 wheels, but it just an amazing piece of highway. Numerous hairpin turn, huge drop-offs and not a single guard-rail to be found. There many places where the speed limit is 15mph because of how twisty the corners are.
If you're interested, I posted a blog entry about it, complete with some pics:
http://inthedesertscootin.blogspot.com/ ... ghway.html

Keeps checking our local website for upcoming rides. You'll be ready for group riding soon, I imagine.

Howard

[Howardr]

Best of luck on the Iron Butt, Howard! Hope you can make it.

Have you ridden the section from Benson in? There's a pretty good elevation difference between Tucson and Benson, isn't there? This is one of the few times you wished you lived in Kansas!

Oh, I've been from Tucson all the way across AZ and New Mexico numerous times. I'm from Roswell and we used to go back and forth several times a year. Benson sets way down in the San Pedro River Valley, so you have a big down hill going in and you have to climb a lot going out. Going east is most difficult. Texas Canyon is just east of Benson, so you not only climb out of the river valley, but up and through Texas Canyon as well. It's probably 10 miles of steady climbing. I-10, however, is still the flattest road I have to ride.

Howard

[pimaCanyon]

US 191 is a great road to ride. I haven't yet done it on 2 wheels, but it just an amazing piece of highway. Numerous hairpin turn, huge drop-offs and not a single guard-rail to be found. There many places where the speed limit is 15mph because of how twisty the corners are.

If you're interested, I posted a blog entry about it, complete with some pics:
http://inthedesertscootin.blogspot.com/ ... ghway.html

Keeps checking our local website for upcoming rides. You'll be ready for group riding soon, I imagine.

Howard

Thanks, Howard. Yeah, I'm ready for a group ride, I've been out in city traffic a few times now, and have carried a passenger a few times as well. Now the challenge will be fitting the group ride in on weekends that are just way too short!

I read your write-up about US 191 at the link you posted. Looks like an amazing road to ride on two wheels! One very nice thing about that highway is that it's so far from major cities that it sees very little traffic, so the likelihood of an accident like the one described at the beginning of the book Proficient Motorcycling seems very small. (That story still gives me the heebee jeebees every time I think about it )

BTW, there IS a way you can get to the start of this ride without going on I-10. Head north to Globe, then southeast on US 70 to Safford. Google maps says about 5 hrs 15 min from Tucson to Clifton using that route, so on a scoot, it would be what 6 or 7 hours? Maybe ride to Clifton in one day, spend the night there, ride up 191 to Alpine and back in one day (or spend a night in Alpine), then back to Tucson on the third day.

[ericalm]

A 2T Stella actually may not perform well at higher altitudes or on that much of a climb. Might have to stop and change the jet or at least air/fuel mix on the way up!

[Lostmycage]

A 2T Stella actually may not perform well at higher altitudes or on that much of a climb. Might have to stop and change the jet or at least air/fuel mix on the way up!

Also, 2T engines are prone to over-heating if pushed to their max RPMs for long times.

[Howardr]

And my experience with my Stella is that it has almost no torque in 4th gear. I've had to down shift to 3rd to finish climbs of some hills and top them with a top speed of 30mph. The Buddy slows down, but not that bad. Of course, both of them are carrying my 250 lb carcass on them.

Howard

[Lostmycage]

That's weird.. I always had to downshift on hills on my Buddy.