Battery Tender melted cables

[malakai]

Left the battery tender on for several weeks, over a month. This morning this happened.

I disconnected the charger, cables, left the ones attached to the battery on, turned on the scooter.

This is it:

There is also some damage to the border of the scooter. The AC charger was warm, even after several minutes of disconnected.

[jmkjr72]

a loose battery tender just cause a big fire in wi the other week a fire chifes garage and house burnt to the ground

[ericalm]

Wow. Was this the Battery Tender brand tender?

[Dooglas]

I disconnected the charger, cables, left the ones attached to the battery on, turned on the scooter.

You disconnected what cables and left what cables attached? You apparently created a dead short to the scooter battery. The battery tender is fused and will shut down if you short it out (and the Battery Tender Jr. only puts out 3/4 amp if that is the tender we are talking about - and the cigarette lighter circuit is fused at one amp so I presume that was bypassed as well)

[chloefpuff]

Uh, when I go out to the garage to visit ToughBunny and start her up do I need to disconnect the tender first?

[rsrider]

I always pull the battery (except in Solstice, where you have to remove part of the front wheel well to remove it) anytime I use a charger, trickle or other, on my vehicles. And I only leave them on the charger for a couple of days at a time. I've heard stories, like in this thread, and rather play it safe.

[chloefpuff]

^It would be fairly impractical for me to take the tender on and off for several months. And it seems self-defeating: I expect the tender to tend my battery, not for me to tend the tender.

[charlie55]

I think that I may have the answer, and it agrees with what Dooglas was saying.

On my charger, the pigtail leads that you attach to the battery in order to make it a semi-permanent connection are color-coded: red for positive, black for negative (ground). Additionally, the connector at the end of the adapter covers the positive lead and leaves the ground exposed. So, if the connector happens to flop around when not attached to the charger, no harm will be done.

Looking at the pictures, I do not see any color coding, but it appears as if the melted wire is the one that connects to the exposed part of the plug. So, if that wire were the one connected to the positive terminal of the battery, it's possible that the exposed part of the plug started flopping around after the charger was disconnected, made contact with a grounded metal component, and effectively shorted out the battery.

[malakai]

The tender had been on the battery for Dec, Jan, Feb
The cables that were used are the ones that you have to remove the screws to place them, and replace the screws to the battery so they are not easy to detach.

So, after all that time plugged in to the scooter- I removed the cables TO the scooter battery, re-attached the original scooter cables to the battery, left the cables hanging on the side of the TENDER and started the scooter. They were still touching the plastic area of the scooter on the floor.

I have to say, I did not notice of they were already melted to the plastic side of the battery, when I removed the contacts from the battery which is a possibility.

There was definitely a short, sparks,a plume of white smoke smelling to Sulfur.

In addition, I had started the scooter with the battery attached several times, no problem.

[brape]

I always pull the battery (except in Solstice, where you have to remove part of the front wheel well to remove it) anytime I use a charger, trickle or other, on my vehicles. And I only leave them on the charger for a couple of days at a time. I've heard stories, like in this thread, and rather play it safe.

I do the same thing, mostly out of a desire to save electricity. I go in and check on it when I go home from work and if the light is green I unplug it from the heavy duty extension cord

[Dooglas]

There was definitely a short, sparks,a plume of white smoke smelling to Sulfur.

As charlie55 and I suggested, the battery shorted to ground at the time that you saw the sparks and smelled the smoke. As you had already disconnected the tender (trickle charger), that was not what caused the short. As the wires you attached to the battery terminals are the ones that appear badly damaged, that was surely where the short occurred.

[Scoot]

Hi, I don't normally post to this but this problem with the battery tender cables is interesting. It would appear to me that the battery tender in question was not a "battery tender jr." Mine both have a fused output even if they are connected directly to the battery posts. Personally I have set both of mine up to connect to the battery thru the 12vdc output plug. This way the battery tender is fused both by its own fuse and and the 1 amp fuse in the buddy. Just a suggestion.

[bluebuddygirl]

Are you sure you were using a tender and not a trickle charger? Not all chargers are alike, and some do not stop when the batter if fully charged. I read through the posts and did not see if you mentioned what brand and model of charger you were using. I know that I would appreciate that info, if it hasn't already been stated.

[tunseeker1]

I wish I could see a picture of the plug but from what I see it looks like the ground from the plug shorted to the positive of the battery and the plastc damage is from the heat of the melting wires.

[malakai]

All I can say is that it clearly was sealed and labeled as a battery tender Jr and was sold as that.

I always have a camera with me.

I will take pictures of what is left

[Stormswift]

Uh...should I worry? I took the battery out of the scooter and it has been "tendarizing" on a Tender Jr since end of November. I used permanent contacts, not clippers to connect battery to the tender. I occasionally look at it. I did disconnect tender form the outlet when we went on vacation. I figured if battery cannot last 10 days without charge I will just have to shell out money for a new one come spring. Fire is not something I want to contemplate as a possibility. Should I disconnect the battery and tender from outlet every couple of days? I kind of though the whole purpose of the tender was to maintain electric charge, not fry battery and the scooter or house it is in

[BeachBuzz]

I have 4 Battery Tender Jr's just like the DelTran package in the pic. I keep 3 scoots plugged in for months at a time and share a tender between the Blur and the Burgman - all with the pigtail attached to the post except the Burgman which has the alligator clips attached inside the glovebox. I start every one of them at least once avery 2 weeks and do not disconnect any of the tenders. never any problems or issues.

YMMV

[charlie55]

I have 4 Battery Tender Jr's just like the DelTran package in the pic. I keep 3 scoots plugged in for months at a time and share a tender between the Blur and the Burgman - all with the pigtail attached to the post except the Burgman which has the alligator clips attached inside the glovebox. I start every one of them at least once avery 2 weeks and do not disconnect any of the tenders. never any problems or issues.

YMMV

So long as you're sure that your battery's good, then that's not a problem since the battery will provide all the juice to the starter. If the battery's dead , the tender/charger will take the full current load of the starter, and that could be messy, depending upon how "overload-protected" it is.

BTW, my tender's made (or at least imported from China) by a company named Schumacher, which claims that they put "race-driven technology" in all of their products. They're not lying; the Blur runs much faster with the tender attached, but only for 12 feet or so until the plug comes out of the wall.

[Stormswift]

This probably applies more to ladies here but when you are messing with the tender and battery or any other electrical stuff I am assuming the rings and bracelets get removed before hand? I would include wedding bands and engagement rings in the "should remove just in case " category. You never know what might cause a "short".

[mattgordon]

You've pictured the black, NEG lead with melted plastic on the screw....how does the red POS lead look? Do you have a picture?

I have 5 Tenders cooking in my garage as we speak, never an issue....

Was the Tender hooked to the battery in addition to the scooter leads hooked to the battery at the same time? (recommended) just curious, your verbage regarding that left me a bit unclear

I'm wondering if the wire that burned was damaged somehow causing the short? I'm leaning towards something aolng those lines as a source of the problem.

[rickko]

Been using Deltran Battery Tenders for years (like seven or eight) on my Harleys (and last year on the Buddy). Sometimes they are hooked up for months on end.They've been solid as a rock. As long as they are hooked up properly and you unplug/plug them into the wall while they are disconnected to a battery you shouldn't have any problems.

I've also started my bikes and scooter while they're connected to a Tender. No ill effects.

..rickko..

[Lostmycage]

This image says it all:


The wire that leads to the exposed lead is the one that's melted. That tells me one of two things:
1- that lead was connected to the positive terminal of the battery and the exposed connector found some metal on the frame and completed the circuit.
2- that lead was connected to the negative terminal and the terminals were connected in opposite of what they should be (which would cause the same effect).

These are DC bikes with the frame as ground, so it's more likely #1.

This could be due to confusing instructions, or a lapse of judgment by the installer . A less likely option would be that the connectors were wired incorrectly, which would be very bad for the charger company.

Everyone makes mistakes, that's what makes us human. It sounds like you got off without any huge losses, so chalk that up to a lesson learned.

[kneil67@yahoo.com]

I dont get it ive had my scooter 2years now and never had to use a tender even in the winter. whats up ? I dont get it. do I have the ulltra mega prime of batteries?

[Cheshire]

I dont get it ive had my scooter 2years now and never had to use a tender even in the winter. whats up ? I dont get it. do I have the ulltra mega prime of batteries?

Do you ride at least some through winter? If so, that's your answer.

[kneil67@yahoo.com]

so battery tenders are for weekend warriors ? I let my bike sit for three weeks in 10 deg weather started right up . drained the crap out of the battery lots of times (from leaving it on and such ) just kick start let it run a few and whalah everthing is fine and dandy. but I always ride unless im sick or a blizzard is brewing.

[Cheshire]

I wouldn't say weekend warriors. I'd say for those that aren't insane, don't have snow in their veins, or pass a standard reaction test for certain stimuli...like watching the radar from October/November through March/April. You know...normal people.
Winter Warriors DON'T pass for normal. But we like it that way, yes?


In all seriousness: for when the battery won't be used for something like more than a month or when you're not able to charge it by riding, most commonly winter storage. I had to break down and get a Tender Jr. for the GPz550 until I get her operational. All the testing, starting, and not riding just about killed the battery on her.

[tunseeker1]

I guess I hooked up my tenders a bit differently then everyone else.

I have both the Battery Tender Jr and the Schumacer version.

I hooked the bolt on leads to the battery and leave then on all year round.

I ran the wiring up under the plastic and had it exit near the back side of the footrest near the passenger footrest and just use the cover over the plug when its not hooked up.

[kneil67@yahoo.com]

I wouldn't say weekend warriors. I'd say for those that aren't insane, don't have snow in their veins, or pass a standard reaction test for certain stimuli...like watching the radar from October/November through March/April. You know...normal people.
Winter Warriors DON'T pass for normal. But we like it that way, yes?


In all seriousness: for when the battery won't be used for something like more than a month or when you're not able to charge it by riding, most commonly winter storage. I had to break down and get a Tender Jr. for the GPz550 until I get her operational. All the testing, starting, and not riding just about killed the battery on her.

rock n roll sounds like you want snow in the veins. hmmm who wants studs for their tires welcome to to the abnormal club ::))

[malakai]

tunseeker1"]I guess I hooked up my tenders a bit differently then everyone else.

I have both the Battery Tender Jr and the Schumacer version.

I hooked the bolt on leads to the battery and leave then on all year round.
I ran the wiring up under the plastic and had it exit near the back side of the footrest near the passenger footrest and just use the cover over the plug when its not hooked up.

~~~~
That is exactly the way I had it connected and I suppose that is the most probable use, when you want the tender to tend to your battery and not you tend to the battery tender.

~~~
The cable was burnt in many areas, including the prong that attaches to the battery tender, so I am assuming, once and for all, that although it was used properly as per specs, 1)some metal portion of the cable somehow found a metal connection on the scooter or... 2) it was already melted as the result of a malfunction, the already exposed areas were liable to contact and made a short with a metal area.

One of the photo included shows all the areas where there is exposed wiring and burnt plastic due to the short. I consider myself lucky that if reason #2 is correct, a short did not start in the middle of the night or when there was no one home.

[malakai]

I have 4 Battery Tender Jr's just like the DelTran package in the pic. I keep 3 scoots plugged in for months at a time and share a tender between the Blur and the Burgman - all with the pigtail attached to the post except the Burgman which has the alligator clips attached inside the glovebox. I start every one of them at least once avery 2 weeks and do not disconnect any of the tenders. never any problems or issues.

YMMV

That was my exact setup during 2 months. I also did start the scooter every few weeks with tender still attached. There was no bad conenction whatsoever.

Then, the day this happened... 1)I disconnected pigtail cable from scooter 2) left the disconnected cable on the plastic floor -attached to battery) 3) the pigtail was still connected to battery, that was still connected to the wall outlet 4) started scooter

I conclude as I said in earlier post. The cable could have been already burnt and had exposed wires and there had to be a connection to metal for the short to happen. What I don't understand is how starting the scooter, which had no active electrical connection to the cables could have burnt them.

There are two circuits here.
1) The battery tender that is connected to the outlet whose end (pigtail cable) rests on the plastic floor mat

2) and the scooter's ignition circuitry that is started with the key. In no way these two are connected as I saw it, unless they were and I did not see it... like... the end of the pigtail was touching some metal part on the battery!
Possible? Yes, but I cannot assure that.

I will use now the alligator clips for the time being. In my conclusion, I am assuming no defects on the BT, which no one has dared suggest although it is a possibility.

[Dooglas]

I will use now the alligator clips which I don't like and don't know if they make good contact on a Buddy, unless someone knows if the pigtail can be bought separately.

Why don't you use the 12V outlet adapter? Works well, easily and quickly removeable, is separately fused. Looking at the photos of your melted leads, it is pretty clear to me that the cable shorted to ground on the bike - either to the frame or through a damaged wire. Using the spring clip adapters simply increases the risk of an accidental short.

[chloefpuff]

so battery tenders are for weekend warriors ? I let my bike sit for three weeks in 10 deg weather started right up . drained the crap out of the battery lots of times (from leaving it on and such ) just kick start let it run a few and whalah everthing is fine and dandy. but I always ride unless im sick or a blizzard is brewing.

Mine's in storage December - March. And it's pretty much weekend warrior most of November and April. Way too much snow..........

[Stormswift]

My Itallia is hibernating in the house, winterized. No way would I keep battery in it while it is being "tendarized" for exactly the reason that Malakai described. Too dangerous. I unplugged tender from the outlet to let the battery sit idle for a couple of days. Then I will charge it again for a bit. IN March I am taking the riding test so battery will need to go back in. I am a bit confused by the 2 pairs of leads my scooter has. I did not notice the round /loops leads on the Battery removal video someone posted a while back. I remember the square/box leads but not the others. Because the leads popped off very quickly when I loosened the screws I could not tell if the round/loops leads were connected to anything or they were just there idle.
[/img]

[mattgordon]

tunseeker1"]I guess I hooked up my tenders a bit differently then everyone else.

I have both the Battery Tender Jr and the Schumacer version.

I hooked the bolt on leads to the battery and leave then on all year round.
I ran the wiring up under the plastic and had it exit near the back side of the footrest near the passenger footrest and just use the cover over the plug when its not hooked up.

~~~~
That is exactly the way I had it connected and I suppose that is the most probable use, when you want the tender to tend to your battery and not you tend to the battery tender.

~~~
The cable was burnt in many areas, including the prong that attaches to the battery tender, so I am assuming, once and for all, that although it was used properly as per specs, 1)some metal portion of the cable somehow found a metal connection on the scooter or... 2) it was already melted as the result of a malfunction, the already exposed areas were liable to contact and made a short with a metal area.

One of the photo included shows all the areas where there is exposed wiring and burnt plastic due to the short. I consider myself lucky that if reason #2 is correct, a short did not start in the middle of the night or when there was no one home.

Does the fusible link in that cable have the correct amperage fuse?

[tunseeker1]

Ok from what I see here is what I figure.

I assume that the wiring was connected correctly and the fused lead was connected to the positive terminal of the battery.

I believe the picture of the screw on the battery is on the positive side of the battery.

The exposed plug on the tender end of the harness is the negative side of the harness.

At some point the cover was not put back on the plug all the way and a small amount of the plug was left exposed. When the plug was put back near the battery the small exposed portion contacted the positive post of the battery. This is the melted black portion near the burnt area on the screw.

The battery dead shorted causing a high amount of current to heat the wire melting the insulation from the wire and melting the plastic on the scoot.


Just my idea after working around a lot of melted wiring.

[malakai]

Lesson Learned: be very careful with this stuff.

I ordered a new pigtal cable from www.batterytender.com. Still like it, and as someone said, the other setup is riski-er. I still wanna test what went wrong --possibly what was said in previous entry - and disconnect BT form outlet, , put aside the cable... , wayyyy aside. There Should not be any problem. Disconnecting BT from outlet seems a good idea every few weeks also. Thank you all for all the comments!

[Dooglas]

I ordered a new pigtal cable from www.batterytender.com. Still like it, and as someone said, the other setup is riski-er.

Does your scoot not have a 12V outlet? I still believe that is the safest and most convenient choice. Least likely for an accidental short and easiest to disconnect.

[mattgordon]

Ok from what I see here is what I figure.

I assume that the wiring was connected correctly and the fused lead was connected to the positive terminal of the battery.

I believe the picture of the screw on the battery is on the positive side of the battery.

The exposed plug on the tender end of the harness is the negative side of the harness.

At some point the cover was not put back on the plug all the way and a small amount of the plug was left exposed. When the plug was put back near the battery the small exposed portion contacted the positive post of the battery. This is the melted black portion near the burnt area on the screw.

The battery dead shorted causing a high amount of current to heat the wire melting the insulation from the wire and melting the plastic on the scoot.


Just my idea after working around a lot of melted wiring.

The picture of the screw on the battery is the negative side, hence the black plastic collar (positive is red, see complete harness picture)

If the positive lead touched ground, the fuse would blow....unless it's the wrong size (too high amperage)