handcuffed for participating in scavenger hunt!!!

Milktown · Post by **Milktown** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:51 am

so. yesterday i went out on the buddy to get my winning picture for the scavenger hunt. my friends mom is a postal employee so i was able to get a usps hat AND shirt. i live a few blocks away from the chicago ohare airport wich has a major cargo hanger for fedex and ups.

so i get all my gear together and set off for the airport thinking i will be able to get my scooter next to the fence with all the pretty little ups and fedex planes all lined up(i counted 15 on this day) not to mention all the other random cargo planes on the other side of the fence. unfortunately i couldnt get a good shot so i drive down the public road that leads closer to the cargo hangers to get a better view of the aircrafts. i follow the road around the hangers through a couple gravel roads and a small cemetery(yes in the middle of the airport land) and BAM on the other side of the fence. 2 ups planes, 6 fedex planes and 2 fed ex semi trucks with the drivers leaning against them. i was thinking JACKPOT! set my scooter up, put on the usps gear and got ready for my winning picture. took a few with myself in the frame and i was feeling pretty good about myself. about to wrap up my little photo session i turn around and see 5 airport police suv's hauling ass towards me. im thinking OH SH*T! as they reach me they from a circle around me and then start with the "let me see your hands get on your knees!!!" crap. i get handcuffed and all my pockets turned out and shoved into the back of one of the cars before they say another word to me. after a few mins talking amongst themselves they come over and ask for my my name and why i was on airport land taking pictures of the aircraft. so i tell them the truth i was trying to impress people on a scooter website. lets just say they were not amused by my story. and after another 10 mins of interrogation they finally started to believe my story. they ran my plates. and called in a full background check on me(thats what they said they were doing at least). whatever they did it took about 45 mins for my name and plates to come back clean. i was told that i was in a restricted area and that it is illegal to take pictures of planes. i proceeded to tell them that there were no signs up saying no trespassing so how was i supposed to know i wasnt allowed on this little graveyard that just happens to be in the airport. anywayse it turns out they were under construction and they trespassing signs were taken down that day so the crew could get through and this was the only reason that i was being let go. they un-hancuffed me and made me hand over my memory card from my phone. told me that if i was spotted on the airport property again for any other reason then traveling i would be arrested on site. i cant wait to see what happens to me next time i have to go through airport security...

so yeh, its illegal to take pictures of planes cuz that makes you a terrorist. FML

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:19 am

Um—WOW. That's crazy; I've never heard anything like that.

I think we had bonus points for getting a ticket pics at one time. This should definitely count.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:56 am

I wish I could say that this story amazes me. Sadly it's perfectly believable.

I'm glad to hear that you came out of it more or less OK

And I vote that you get credit for whatever points you would've gotten if you hadn't been intercepted by the state

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:17 am

what they did was total bull shit i would file a complaint and press charges
first thing they had to know the fence and signs were down
guess what by fedral law when those things come down an armed guard has to be present
if they didnt do that then they are in the wrong
you were let go becuase they didnt have a leg to stand on
the tsa has been over stepping there boundrys by miles
stealing property out of bags destroying property in bags stoping people who are in areas that there are no restrcitions on

i would go back today to the exact same area and see if the sings are back up if not take a pic of where you entered and if they are not file a complaint and press charges

Milktown · Post by **Milktown** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:21 am

jmkjr72 wrote:what they did was total bull shit i would file a complaint and press charges
first thing they had to know the fence and signs were down
guess what by fedral law when those things come down an armed guard has to be present
if they didnt do that then they are in the wrong
you were let go becuase they didnt have a leg to stand on
the tsa has been over stepping there boundrys by miles
stealing property out of bags destroying property in bags stoping people who are in areas that there are no restrcitions on

i would go back today to the exact same area and see if the sings are back up if not take a pic of where you entered and if they are not file a complaint and press charges

i would but something tells me going back and taking more pictures isnt the best idea...

n2tattoos · Post by **n2tattoos** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:38 am

Milktown wrote:
jmkjr72 wrote:what they did was total bull shit i would file a complaint and press charges
first thing they had to know the fence and signs were down
guess what by fedral law when those things come down an armed guard has to be present
if they didnt do that then they are in the wrong
you were let go becuase they didnt have a leg to stand on
the tsa has been over stepping there boundrys by miles
stealing property out of bags destroying property in bags stoping people who are in areas that there are no restrcitions on

i would go back today to the exact same area and see if the sings are back up if not take a pic of where you entered and if they are not file a complaint and press charges

i would but something tells me going back and taking more pictures isnt the best idea...

this is why all my phone pics are uploaded live. no memory card, no prob. still got the evidence.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:46 am

THAT IS INSANE! Glad they didn't cavity search you or anything.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:12 am

bigbropgo wrote: THAT IS INSANE! Glad they didn't cavity search you or anything.

just the term "cavity search" is enough to keep me out of airports even for the sake of travel

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:39 pm

sounds like you are the victim of yet another great policy. Maybe from the likes of:

Lynn Rosenthal - Domestic Violence Czar
Director of the National Network to End Domestic Violence. Vicious anti male feminist. Supported male castration. Imagine?

or

Vivek Kundra - Information Czar
Born in New Delhi , India . Controls all public information, including labels and news releases. Monitors all private Internet emails. (hello?)

OK. I'm done. Don't lecture me about getting political.....

Hipnerd · Post by **Hipnerd** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:56 pm

You definitely were the victim of overreaching police.

It is not illegal to take pictures of airplanes. That's just silly. You can take photos from anywhere that is public property. And the "restricted area" law can only be enforced if it is clearly marked. By their own admission it was not.

And most importantly, they have zero right to your personal property. They don't get to have your memory card or the photos on it without a court order.

Here's a copy of "The Photographer's Right," an excellent resource to carry with you if you do much photography.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

So you were right and they were wrong. However, that doesn't always matter. They have guns, handcuffs and badges. Your decision is how vigorously are you willing to fight for your rights? You could complain to their supervisor about your treatment and the confiscation of your photos. That might get you an apology. It might not. The best-case scenario is that they get training on the law, which they clearly do not know or chose to ignore.

You could also try to argue your point as they have you in cuffs. Ask to speak to a supervisor. Collect badge numbers. Refuse to allow them access to your memory card. They try to intimidate you into deleting the photos because they don't have the right to do it themselves.

This route can often lead to you getting truly arrested, though. So you have to weigh the importance of standing up for a principal versus the inconvenience that a guy with a badge can cause in your life.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:45 pm

The Clash said, "Know your rights!" Bob Marley said, "Stand up for your rights!" Eric says, "Pick your battles!"

I'm not a legal expert and don't know everything pertaining to this instance, but in the post-9/11 world any behavior deemed suspicious (regardless of its legality) at or around an airport is enough to get you cuffed and detained.

When it happens to someone we know, we're outraged. If it was discovered that a suspicious person was seen at an airport taking photos and was not detained, then a week later someone tried to blow a plane up, we'd be outraged. If many of us saw a shady character prowling around and taking photos for no apparent reason, we'd be suspicious and maybe even report the activity.

Should something like this happen to you, you could fight and complain and take it to the top. If anyone thinks that doing so is worth it and that they or others would somehow benefit from their doing this, I say go for it.

On the other hand, my smartass brother got snippy with a TSA screener and for the next 2 years he was pulled out of the line and searched every time he went through airport security. And he travels a lot.

MrNatural · Post by **MrNatural** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:20 pm

That would be totally scary situation!!!
Sounds like you handled it like a champ tho!! People who think they are going to intimidate in that situation by threatening or getting "snippy” are laughably off their rocker! They’ve heard all that before. Much as you’d like to give them a lesson in citizen’s rights, next thing you know you’re being read YOURS!!
“Yes, sir”, “No, sir” while firmly biting ones tongue got people out of a lot worse jams and/or avoided getting in deeper. I applaud your maturity in taking the high road. Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.
That sucks losing the memory card tho!!

Hipnerd · Post by **Hipnerd** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:06 pm

MrNatural wrote:That would be totally scary situation!!!
Sounds like you handled it like a champ tho!! People who think they are going to intimidate in that situation by threatening or getting "snippy” are laughably off their rocker! They’ve heard all that before. Much as you’d like to give them a lesson in citizen’s rights, next thing you know you’re being read YOURS!!
“Yes, sir”, “No, sir” while firmly biting ones tongue got people out of a lot worse jams and/or avoided getting in deeper. I applaud your maturity in taking the high road. Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.
That sucks losing the memory card tho!!

I want to be clear, I'm not advocating getting confrontational or trying to use intimidation in a situation like this, but I do think it is helpful to know your own rights and to know what questions to ask. Generally:

"Why am I being detained?"

"Am I free to leave?"

"What law did I break?"

I used to work for the California Highway Patrol. I have a lot of respect for the police. They have a really tough job. But asking these questions can bring a lot of clarity to a situation. The police are there to enforce the laws -- not create them. "Looking suspicious" is not a crime.

MrNatural · Post by **MrNatural** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:45 pm

I’m down with that Ponch!

Traded your HD for a Buddy I see…..

No doubt I too have utmost respect for law enforcement. I also realize when the adrenalin is pumping “things” could happen and I’m not going to fan the flame in any way. I guess it depends on the intensity of the situation, even a “What law did I break”-type question could get you semi Rodney King-ed.
I agree that “looking suspicious” isn’t a crime but around an airport it’s going to be pretty much treated like one UNTIL they sort out otherwise. The signs around Mpls International beckon you to report all suspicious activity.

Anyway, what’s all this have to do w/ridin’ a Buddy??? It’s warm in MN…Let’s ride!!

Hipnerd · Post by **Hipnerd** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:52 pm

MrNatural wrote:I’m down with that Ponch!

Erik Estrada and me from way back in the day:

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:57 pm

LOL. Were you his stunt rider? He's apparently scared to death of riding a MC. Ironic, eh?

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:03 pm

I work in Development and Engineering at DFW Airport and I can definitively tell you that you were not arrested for taking pictures of the planes. You were arrested for being in the Airport Operations Area taking pictures of the plane. Had you been outside the secure fence area, your picture taking could be deemed harmless touristy stuff. However, since you were inside the AOA, without authority or escort, your picture taking could have been assumed terroristic activity.

I carry the coveted all access blue badge for DFW Airport. We get mondo ginormous fine if we lose that baby. Runway security is no laughing matter here at the airport.

Hipnerd · Post by **Hipnerd** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:03 pm

ericalm wrote:LOL. Were you his stunt rider? He's apparently scared to death of riding a MC. Ironic, eh?

I'd heard that. I interviewed him for "Zenith 1200," the official magazine for the California Highway Patrol back when I was working for them. He seemed pretty nice.

The photographer I had with me suggested we get our picture taken together, and Estrada kissed me. I got this photo out of it. It's a great conversation starter.

MrNatural · Post by **MrNatural** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:10 pm

Hip,
That is SWEET!!!! (in more ways than one!!) LOL
His Wikapedia entry says he didn't have a motorcycle endorsement during filming and when he did get it for some other show it took 3 tries.

StL_Stadtroller · Post by **StL_Stadtroller** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:40 pm

That is totally insane!

I used to ride a Ural motorcycle with a dummy but quite realistic looking MG-34 machine gun mounted to the sidecar, and worked just a few blocks from Lambert International..
then one day I went out for lunch, and during my lunch break the @!#$ POTUS had flown in, and every damned road back to work was blocked off and I couldn't get back. Roadblocks everywhere, Police everywhere, dudes in black SUV and suits with wiggly wires going into their ears...

But NOT A DAMNED ONE said ANYTHING about the gigantic machine gun mounted to my motorcycle. and yeah, I was absolutely SH@#$NG myself the whole time too.
And yeah, it was even post 9-11.

I guess if were also taking pictures though I would have gotten a baton enema that day

Major Redneck · Post by **Major Redneck** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:53 pm

wow milktown thats like something off "24" dont feel too bad check this story out about the April fools joke played on a father that his child was missing... he is now facing felony charges

http://www.salisburypost.com/News/04051 ... n-in-jail-

Milktown · Post by **Milktown** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:31 am

not that it really matters, but this all happend on my birthday haha

dakotamouse · Post by **dakotamouse** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:26 am

ericalm wrote:The Clash said, "Know your rights!" Bob Marley said, "Stand up for your rights!" Eric says, "Pick your battles!"

I'm not a legal expert and don't know everything pertaining to this instance, but in the post-9/11 world any behavior deemed suspicious (regardless of its legality) at or around an airport is enough to get you cuffed and detained.

When it happens to someone we know, we're outraged. If it was discovered that a suspicious person was seen at an airport taking photos and was not detained, then a week later someone tried to blow a plane up, we'd be outraged. If many of us saw a shady character prowling around and taking photos for no apparent reason, we'd be suspicious and maybe even report the activity.

Should something like this happen to you, you could fight and complain and take it to the top. If anyone thinks that doing so is worth it and that they or others would somehow benefit from their doing this, I say go for it.

On the other hand, my smartass brother got snippy with a TSA screener and for the next 2 years he was pulled out of the line and searched every time he went through airport security. And he travels a lot.

I'm with you on this one, Eric. Not worth the argument. But, really. Couldn't they have just watched as the shots were deleted from the camera? Did they really have to keep the card?

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:59 am

dakotamouse wrote:...Couldn't they have just watched as the shots were deleted from the camera? Did they really have to keep the card?

+1 Especially since you could almost certainly have gotten them back if you deleted them with the camera (as long as you didn't shoot new pics over the deleted ones.

dawg onit · Post by **dawg onit** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:47 am

wow happy b-day, i'm glad they didn't take your camera.

JulietFitzie · Post by **JulietFitzie** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:35 pm

I think it makes for an awesome and entertaining story. Its important to have stuff like that happen in your life.
Now you can joke with your friends and say you can't ride to someones house because you're afraid of passing by the airport on your scooter.
Have fun with it.

Hipnerd · Post by **Hipnerd** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:39 am

I missed that they actually took your card last time. I would definitely ask for that back. I would also use that opportunity to point out that you are not happy with your treatment.

Ultimately, you did nothing wrong. They took the signs down. Because of that, you made an understandable, honest mistake.

Handcuffs were unnecessary considering the circumstances -- especially for the length of time they kept you. And they have zero right to your personal property.

Realistically, what are you going to do with your photos of a few FedEx planes? What info could you get with a camera-phone that wouldn't be easier to get from Google Maps or with a really good zoom lens?

A little common sense would have helped a whole lot.

masterofillusion · Post by **masterofillusion** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:19 am

Well no pics, but the story was impressive! I guess you did it!

Milktown · Post by **Milktown** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:12 am

got the memory car back. tried retrieving the pics but no luck

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:51 am

That's too bad. Sounds like they may be learning and overwriting 'siezed' media enough times to make the files unrecoverable. Did you try any tools like Recuva?

Tony McGurk · Post by **Tony McGurk** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:48 am

I know this is an old thread but I just came across it. It must have sucked to be you at that point in time Milktown, but reading about it really cracked me up.

Brilliant story, maybe you should have gone to the press

bpatrick5 · Post by **bpatrick5** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:52 pm

That's the scariest and funniest story!! Sucks they took the memory card. I wonder if you're on the watch list.

Tanuki · Post by **Tanuki** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:54 pm

I had a similar encounter once when I was location scouting for a movie. The police were very interested in why I was taking photos of industrial warehouses at 2 am. They didn't take my camera, but they did run my license and give me a verbal warning.

Modern Buddy

handcuffed for participating in scavenger hunt!!!

handcuffed for participating in scavenger hunt!!!

:)