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Latest from Genuine's website on the Stella 4T
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rayk
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:29 pm    Post subject: Latest from Genuine's website on the Stella 4T Reply with quote

Posted yesterday on Genuine's website:

July 12th, 2010
Update: News on new Stella 4 strokes.
We are working to resolve an issue with US Customs regarding an alleged oversight by the factory in India over an issue that would appear easily corrected. We appreciate your patience, and will continue to keep you updated as we obtain more information.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YAY! communication! Razz
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JoshWED
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Lovelandstella
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Latest from Genuine's website on the Stella 4T Reply with quote

"regarding an alleged oversight by the factory in India over an issue that would appear easily corrected."
that is confidence! and it;s good to hear. it sounds like Genuine understands it better than Customs. which, from my personal experience with customs I wouldn't put it past customs taking their sweet time for something easy and simple and not worth it. "It wasn't a cuban cigar- it was a cuban cigar 'container'- it's not rocket science!" I just left it with them anyway, but I digress.

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EvilTweety
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I'm really confused. Genuine had stated previously that the 4t's had cleared customs on June 4th. "Blur And Stella 4t Update!
The bikes have officially cleared customs and are en route" -June 4, 2010 via Genuine Scooter's Facebook. So if they had already cleared, what would US Customs be wanting now? Mad
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dawg onit
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to upset anybody, but I thought this was a lil funny, good things come to those who wait. Stay positive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3v5p5fnDWM&feature=related
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Anachronism
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaHa, all of you 4T guys have to wait while I am enjoying my 2T.


And by "enjoying my 2T" what I mean is regularly visiting it in the shop while they lay it down and the motor blows up.

I've ridden it once in the last month. Sad

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bosco
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anachronism wrote:
HaHa, all of you 4T guys have to wait while I am enjoying my 2T.


And by "enjoying my 2T" what I mean is regularly visiting it in the shop while they lay it down and the motor blows up.

I've ridden it once in the last month. Sad


-if you want to off it cheap, even broken, let me know.

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illnoise
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilTweety wrote:
Now I'm really confused. Genuine had stated previously that the 4t's had cleared customs on June 4th. "Blur And Stella 4t Update!
The bikes have officially cleared customs and are en route" -June 4, 2010 via Genuine Scooter's Facebook. So if they had already cleared, what would US Customs be wanting now? :x


It's sounded all along like they were under the impression they were all set to go until the June 17 announcement that the EPA decided to re-evaluate it, apparently for whatever this oversight was. Even then, they explained that it was unexpected. I don't want to pretend to understand all the steps involved, but it could have passed Customs but not EPA (and there's DOT, and C-ARB in California, lots and lots of roadblocks), even though for simplicity they're just calling it all "Customs" sometimes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

illnoise wrote:
EvilTweety wrote:
Now I'm really confused. Genuine had stated previously that the 4t's had cleared customs on June 4th. "Blur And Stella 4t Update!
The bikes have officially cleared customs and are en route" -June 4, 2010 via Genuine Scooter's Facebook. So if they had already cleared, what would US Customs be wanting now? Mad


It's sounded all along like they were under the impression they were all set to go until the June 17 announcement that the EPA decided to re-evaluate it, apparently for whatever this oversight was. Even then, they explained that it was unexpected. I don't want to pretend to understand all the steps involved, but it could have passed Customs but not EPA (and there's DOT, and C-ARB in California, lots and lots of roadblocks), even though for simplicity they're just calling it all "Customs" sometimes.


From my first career where I worked for the FCC and dealt with approval of electronic equipment and its importation, I know that US Customs does the checking of the paperwork and cursory inspection for other regulatory agencies that actually set the rules for what can be legally imported. If Customs finds something that is apparently amiss, they call in the relevant agency (in this case, the EPA) for further evaluation/investigation.

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jmer1234
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And of course, quite possibly the longer they sat there while the EPA took their turn, Customs may have had time to scratch a little deeper and found something else. There is no telling. But I am taking this as the light at the end of the tunnel.
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BrooktownGeezer
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Likely translation: the scooters that were shipped were not made *exactly* like the one that was approved.
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illnoise
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrooktownGeezer wrote:
Likely translation: the scooters that were shipped were not made *exactly* like the one that was approved.


Yep, that'd be my guess, too. Or LML found a way to ensure the EPA-mandated vapor recovery system didn't screw up the entire fuel system, and the EPA resents their ingenuity.

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Gary Sebben
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrooktownGeezer wrote:
Likely translation: the scooters that were shipped were not made *exactly* like the one that was approved.


Glad somebody said it. Genuine has made it seem like they had their hands deep in the build of this bike. They may have been trying to sneak some illicit refinements into the US and it backfired. If this is because of something Genuine let slip then the EPA delay is their fault as well as the 3 month delay leading up to it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary, I bet that you're a lot of fun at parties.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rippinyarn wrote:
Gary, I bet that you're a lot of fun at parties.


ROFL

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illnoise
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rippinyarn wrote:
Gary, I bet that you're a lot of fun at parties.


Glad somebody said it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rippinyarn wrote:
Gary, I bet that you're a lot of fun at parties.


SUM BANG! Clap
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EvilTweety
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here come the personal attacks... sigh... I would like at least one 4t discussion to not devolve into an old member vs new member flame fest.
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Silver Streak
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilTweety wrote:
Here come the personal attacks... sigh... I would like at least one 4t discussion to not devolve into an old member vs new member flame fest.


Much less attack than innuendo. Sometimes, a "Debbie Downer" (Wah-Waah) just has to be called on it.
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/111272/605855

P.S. - I'm a relatively new member, too.

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illnoise
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary's made 23 posts here (OK, maybe we deleted a few), each of them whining, stirring up imaginary conspiracy theories, more whining, being dramatic, and demanding things that this group can't give him. He's welcome to spout whatever nonsense he can invent, but we don't have to agree with him, and it's clear that even other frustrated would-be Stella owners are getting tired of his attitude. He's made his point.

Again, Gary, I wonder… if you're so convinced that Genuine is a sinister fraudulent operation bent on making your life hell, why not just ask for your deposit back and buy a different scooter already? Frankly, I hope you never get your Stella because I don't want to read all your complaints about it when you do. Trust me, you're going to hate it.

I know these threads probably make us all look bad, but you have to understand that there is not a more good-natured bunch of people than Modern Buddy. It's our lack of patience for trolls that keeps it that way. I'd once again like to invite everybody to check out the other tens of thousands of posts here that celebrate scootering in a positive, friendly, helpful, constructive manner.

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Gary Sebben
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

illnoise wrote:
Gary's made 23 posts here (OK, maybe we deleted a few), each of them whining, stirring up imaginary conspiracy theories, more whining, being dramatic, and demanding things that this group can't give him.


I'd actually like you to prove that with quotes. I've said two things that have upset people on this board: That I think a company like Genuine should show appreciation to people who have invested in there product with something nice if that product is going to be eternally delayed, AND I've called people out who keep telling 4T deposit holders they should pull their money or stop complaining. You won't find anything more inflammatory than that. But insult me all you want if it makes you feel better.

Why do I think Genuine is capable of making a change to a bike and trying to slip i passed the EPA? Because they're a company. Bigger ones have done it and Genuine is not better than them. If you want to be naive about what for profit institutions do to make a buck, that's fine. I have a bridge in New York I want to sell you.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that I do not believe Genuine has behaved in a fraudulent manner in regards to the 4t. However, I do think the company's handling of the obvious project time over-runs and poor customer communication is not good business practice. Upfront, honest and timely communication is the key to mitigate customer frustration. Had Genuine admitted, let's say in March, that they would not meet the advertised April delivery due to (insert reason here) and then kept the customers aware on a weekly, bi-weekly, heck even a monthly basis, they would not be in the unfortunate position they now find themselves. Will I pull my deposit because of this? No, but it may make me think twice when the next "must have" model is announced.
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illnoise
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary Sebben wrote:
I've said two things that have upset people on this board: That I think a company like Genuine should show appreciation to people who have invested in there product with something nice if that product is going to be eternally delayed, AND I've called people out who keep telling 4T deposit holders they should pull their money or stop complaining. You won't find anything more inflammatory than that. But insult me all you want if it makes you feel better.

Why do I think Genuine is capable of making a change to a bike and trying to slip i passed the EPA? Because they're a company. Bigger ones have done it and Genuine is not better than them.


I actually agree with you on all three of those points. I've said as much that Genuine should 'do something nice' for you guys, and i would bet money they will. I understand that you're frustrated with the delays and I don't think people should call back their deposits, the bike's worth the wait (I simply pointed out it was an option). And I'm probably even a bigger corporation-mistrusting socialist than you are.

Maybe I was mentally linking you to a couple posts you didn't make, but you've made a few that ruffled my feathers.

As a moderator I should rise above the bickering, I know. I understand many of you are frustrated with Genuine, but I wish you'd stop taking it out on this group, many of us are simply trying to offer some constructive insight into the company and scootering in general, and we get shot down as "Genuine apologists" by people that are just posting complaint after complaint, which gets us riled up.

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Redcatjack
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the entertaining posts. I've been a bit disappointed that the chatter on the complaints thread petered out this week... Glad to have it all back.

I ran into my dealer at a rally a couple weeks ago and he told me that I'm the only customer with a deposit on the Stella who hasn't been calling and bugging him about when they're going to arrive. Why? Que sera, sera. It's like the weather, it's going to happen, when it happens... When it does I'll be pumped, until then, meh.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redcatjack wrote:
Thanks all for the entertaining posts. I've been a bit disappointed that the chatter on the complaints thread petered out this week... Glad to have it all back.

I ran into my dealer at a rally a couple weeks ago and he told me that I'm the only customer with a deposit on the Stella who hasn't been calling and bugging him about when they're going to arrive. Why? Que sera, sera. It's like the weather, it's going to happen, when it happens... When it does I'll be pumped, until then, meh.


+1. I share your attitude exactly. The delay gives me more time to find appropriate tires to substitute for the Savas. Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redcatjack wrote:
Thanks all for the entertaining posts. I've been a bit disappointed that the chatter on the complaints thread petered out this week... Glad to have it all back.

I ran into my dealer at a rally a couple weeks ago and he told me that I'm the only customer with a deposit on the Stella who hasn't been calling and bugging him about when they're going to arrive. Why? Que sera, sera. It's like the weather, it's going to happen, when it happens... When it does I'll be pumped, until then, meh.


.. you will be the first to know when it hits the back dock.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah +1 on positive attitudes...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

illnoise wrote:
As a moderator I should rise above the bickering, I know. I understand many of you are frustrated with Genuine, but I wish you'd stop taking it out on this group, many of us are simply trying to offer some constructive insight into the company and scootering in general, and we get shot down as "Genuine apologists" by people that are just posting complaint after complaint, which gets us riled up.


SUM BANG!

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Lovelandstella
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:43 pm    Post subject: a health change of subject Reply with quote

back on topic...
any ideas, tips, guesses, or ridiculous ideas as to what they found different fromt he EPA tested one?

I vote that the seats didn't match the hand grips and they wanted me to be happy Laughing


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: a health change of subject Reply with quote

Lovelandstella wrote:
back on topic...
any ideas, tips, guesses, or ridiculous ideas as to what they found different fromt he EPA tested one?


My guess is that it's something minor, or a part substitution. Vespa used to do this all the time. When they first shipped the ET2, and they ran out of Weber carbs, they shipped them with Dell'Orto carbs. Which carb was in the EPA approved dossier? Who knows?

Seems like sometimes Piaggio would change vendors, and so small parts would be just a tad different. Even on the new GTS scooters, some have polished footpegs and some are dull...without regard to rhyme or reason.

Most likely it's not something cosmetic, but something that has to do with the motor or evap system, and my bet would be a product substitution. If that's the case, the simple fix is to get a crate of replacement parts shipped to Chicago pronto, replace the offending part with the one in the EPA reviewed document, and you're in compliance. OR....get the EPA to review the part in the bike as an "or equal" substitution.

This is total conjecture on my part.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilTweety wrote:
Here come the personal attacks... sigh... I would like at least one 4t discussion to not devolve into an old member vs new member flame fest.


Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: a health change of subject Reply with quote

BrooktownGeezer wrote:
If that's the case, the simple fix is to get a crate of replacement parts shipped to Chicago pronto, replace the offending part with the one in the EPA reviewed document, and you're in compliance. OR....get the EPA to review the part in the bike as an "or equal" substitution.


I would think in a case like that the EPA could just do a simple emissions test like any you would get at the DMV in states that require it. How much more testing needs to be done if all you care about it whats coming out of the tail pipe.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think somebody at genuine knocked up somebody at the EPA. Sure, it starts with drinks and maybe a movie. "Wow really, you work for the EPA. I so happen to have a really important shippment coming in. Wanna go back to my place? "

Next thing ya know somebody scorn isn't playing fair with documentation. "I'll show him".

So you see. The 4t will rock. All will be right with the world. But bitching won't help. Nobody is really listening.

And to address old members vs new. I'm sorry but that's kinda lame. If you come party at my house, and poop in the punch bowl, I will kick you in the teeth. And my friends might help. We don't like poop in our punch. So we discourage that kind of behavior. Ya dig.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigbropgo wrote:
I think somebody at genuine knocked up somebody at the EPA. Sure, it starts with drinks and maybe a movie. "Wow really, you work for the EPA. I so happen to have a really important shippment coming in. Wanna go back to my place? "

Next thing ya know somebody scorn isn't playing fair with documentation. "I'll show him".
...
ROFL
then it took a darker turn...
but still funny.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigbropgo wrote:
And to address old members vs new. I'm sorry but that's kinda lame. If you come party at my house, and poop in the punch bowl, I will kick you in the teeth. And my friends might help. We don't like poop in our punch. So we discourage that kind of behavior. Ya dig.


Clap That's the strangest, and most appropriate, analogy yet. It's also a really good reason to enforce a BYOB policy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed Its kinda late sorry. I just don't get it. Everybody just needs to chill and remember they are choosing to be angry. What are your choices? Pull your deposit and start to shop around for your next scoot. Or wait it out and dream of the fun you will have with the 4t. But the circular logic that some are using to justify the complaining is getting stale. I'll say it again, nobody is listening. Nobody with any influence anyway. And if they do hear your cries, then what? Now you guys are starting to make up reasons why this is happening. Total speculation. Well I speculate there was a brick of cocaine in all the glove boxes. I mean, who's gonna check the glove box right. Or maybe plutonium. Or someone got a slamming deal on the tires, and they are made of baby seal skins. So just relax, its gonna be great. Or go get your money, either way stop poopin in the punch bowl. Were trying to party.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Facepalm

Does anyone actually know what was wrong? As I've said before, it could be anything from placement of a sticker to the way something is worded to something mechanical.

Some folks are, for whatever reason, predisposed to think that Genuine is clearly up to something nefarious, trying to pull one over on federal regulators, officials and customers. I don't know about you, but if my opinion of a company and its behavior was so mow, I'd be unlikely to support them by purchasing their products.

The rest of us can, at the very least, not jump to conclusions. We don't know what the issue is one way or another and there's nothing indicating it's anything major or part of some grand conspiracy.

[sarcasm]That doesn't mean that it isn't, of course. The world is a dark and horrible place full of people trying to screw you over, scam you out of your money and deceive us all just for kicks. Right?[/sarcasm]

Regardless, anyone claiming the EPA issue one thing or another is fulla baloney. We don't know what it is. It's okay to admit that.

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Wheelz
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, my name is Wheelz, and I admit, that I have no idea, what's going on right now. What The?

Good god, bigbro when you loose it, you really loose it Goofy Clap

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dawg onit
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROFL ROFL bigbro , wow.
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EvilTweety
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigbropgo wrote:
... If you come party at my house, and poop in the punch bowl, I will kick you in the teeth. And my friends might help. We don't like poop in our punch. So we discourage that kind of behavior. Ya dig.


Threat received, and understood. I guess we can only post sunshine and puppies...
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laxer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilTweety wrote:
bigbropgo wrote:
... If you come party at my house, and poop in the punch bowl, I will kick you in the teeth. And my friends might help. We don't like poop in our punch. So we discourage that kind of behavior. Ya dig.


Threat received, and understood. I guess we can only post sunshine and puppies...


You obviously either don't understand or choose not to, and your strawman argument does you no good.
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jasondavis48108
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All your scooters are belong to us!

I think someone from Piaggio Snuck some pin-up photos of Osama Bin Laden into the golve boxes and wrote an annonymous letter confirming the governments worst fears, that STELLA stands for

Still
Terrorizing
Everyone
Lots &
Laughing
At your country

So waiting for the Stella isn't just a smart move if you want a kick ass scooter its down right patriotic, its the most American thing an American has ever done, its Bigger than John Wayne and more Badass than Steve McQueen Its the Alamo of the war on terror only you can win this one, o.k. I just can't go on, starting to get teary eyed Crying or Very sad

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bigbropgo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilTweety wrote:
Threat received, and understood. I guess we can only post sunshine and puppies...


I definitely wasn't threatening anybody. It was meant to be funny. Some new members seem to think there is a right of passage or something to be accepted arount here. To have the support of the forum. That's not quite it. A couple of members seem dissatisfied that we are not joining in with the genuine bashing. I would like to think it is sunshine and puppies. If someone has a problem. Lets get in out, and deal with it and get over it. (I know sometimes its not that simple,but we try).

I really, and honestly think you and others (deposit holders), have every right to be angry and discouraged. But how many threads are going to be started to vent? And that's not really even it. I guess, as older members who chose to help and lend advice, what do y'all need to make the wait more comfortable? We haven't seemed to help so far. its gone beyond just simple venting.

I will not make anymore punch bowl references and apologize if that was offensive. I really was messing around. I also won't post about the 4t until I have one.
The simplest answer is this. Anyone can post an opinion, and I can ignore it. Responding to it becomes my problem.

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illnoise
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scooter Pilot's analogy was a bit weird, but it's very close to one I was thinking of last night…

Picture Modern Buddy as a big bar, (like Cheers!), where there are a lot of regulars who've been drinking here for years There's a big Old Style sign out front, and Old Style is sort of the drink of choice. Now imagine a small handful of well-intentioned guys coming in after reading about new Old Style Red and thinking "oh, yeah, we gotta try that." The Yelp reviews all say we're a well-known Old Style bar, so they came to our bar to get some.

Now, we've got Old Style, and we've been looking forward to Old Style Red, too, and our bartenders know the distributor, so we tried some when they were testing it and we know it's good. We were supposed to get it this week, but the distributor showed up without it.

We all know the stuff's coming and everything's gonna be OK, but these new guys are miffed, they drove out of their way to try this new beer. So they sit at one table and sulk.

Meanwhile, the bar's going like usual, everyone's having fun, it's all good. Over time, our patrons start interacting with the new guys, who haven't left their table, and are still being crabby about the new beer. They aren't interested in any social interaction or any other beer, they're just going to sit there indefinitely until the new beer shows up. Some regulars invite them to try other beers, or try to console them by saying we know this company makes good beer, you just gotta be patient, and are rebuffed with "You guys are Old Style shills!" Then, one of the new guys stands up and yells "Hey, aren't you guys all pissed about Red not being here yet?" More people join the conversation, and are shut out again, so the regulars start getting angry. The new guys start yelling at the bartenders and patrons, demanding to know why the beer's not here, and why we don't do something about it. One guy stands up and says "Everyone here knows the bartenders SUCK!" even though the regular patrons are old friends with the bartenders.

That turns the bartenders against all of the guys at that table, even the ones that have been polite, and it all goes downhill from there.

</analogy>

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dawg onit
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrDYJ5LNKA
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EvilTweety
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one thing missing from the bar analogy is that I have already paid for my beer... I have tried to keep my posts civil and simply express what I believe are legitimate concerns regarding Genuine's poor handling of this entire situation. I have never asked for anything other than information and help. If the "regulars" take this as bashing their favorite beer, than I apoloize.
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jasondavis48108
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawg onit wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrDYJ5LNKA


Those where some awesome puppies, but did you see the end "camp for dogs" is the EPA holding those dogs? Did they not pass CARB emissions standards? I know they come in a creme color but what about red, I hate it when evil capitolists use ones love for puppies to make a buck and I don't want to hear anything from you cat love'n apologists Wink

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Wheelz
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- GTS 300 super...

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Tweety,

I don't think anybody has been rude to you specifically, I think the frustration comes from the few, maybe one of the new members that just don't get the idea of pleasant discourse, or have some kinda idea that it's being done as some kinda grand corporate conspiracy.
Getting back to illnoise's bar anology, and your comment, you already paid for your beer, but you didn't pay this bar for that beer you paid somebody else, and all this bar can do is offer details of how good that beer is gonna be when it gets to ya.
And Bigbro's analogy while out there, rings quite true as well, if you attack the pack it attacks back.
I have found you to be most respectful and naturally frustrated, and as that is, I have no problem with you, and I'm sure nobody else here does either.

@Illnoise-Old Style huh, your not from Chicago are ya? Does the fictitious Modern Buddy bar have a non descript Old Style sign out front with the words "Jimne Pivo" along the bottom?

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BrooktownGeezer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're only talking about scooters here guys. Not life or death issues.

If you're so frustrated by waiting for a 4T stella, maybe you really should consider getting something else. Life is too short to make yourself miserable over a big boy toy.

Buy a 2T and get riding! You'll de-stress in minutes.
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