[NSR]Tron:Legacy

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[NSR]Tron:Legacy

Post by jrsjr »

In the Scott Pilgrim thread, I posted the following:
jrsjr wrote:
ericalm wrote:Tron's a much different deal because it's an established property.
Two weeks ago, I would have just nodded my head in agreement. Now, I'm thinking, Who exactly is Tron an established property with? In light of what we've just seen, I'm thinking Tron:Legacy will do about $47-55M in domestic box office.
...and this just goes to show you how insanely wrong I can be! :roll: Tron:Legacy is cranking out more than $6M in box office per frikking day - every day of the week! T:L cruised by the $100M domestic box office mark this week and just keeps on cranking out $6M in domestic b.o. per day. Unbelievable!

So has anybody seen it? Is it worth the extra $$$ to see it in IMAX?
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Post by JHScoot »

nothing is worth seeing in a fake, overpriced imax theater. or that crappy "new" 3D that seems more like hi def tv then anything else

$18 a ticket to see a movie?

bah!

jeff bridges fan? see true grit. what a good film
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Post by wifiducky »

going to see true grit i wanna see it I WANNA SEEE
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Re: [NSR]Tron:Legacy

Post by ericalm »

jrsjr wrote:In the Scott Pilgrim thread, I posted the following:
jrsjr wrote:
ericalm wrote:Tron's a much different deal because it's an established property.
Two weeks ago, I would have just nodded my head in agreement. Now, I'm thinking, Who exactly is Tron an established property with? In light of what we've just seen, I'm thinking Tron:Legacy will do about $47-55M in domestic box office.
...and this just goes to show you how insanely wrong I can be! :roll: Tron:Legacy is cranking out more than $6M in box office per frikking day - every day of the week! T:L cruised by the $100M domestic box office mark this week and just keeps on cranking out $6M in domestic b.o. per day. Unbelievable!

So has anybody seen it? Is it worth the extra $$$ to see it in IMAX?
JHScoot wrote:nothing is worth seeing in a fake, overpriced imax theater. or that crappy "new" 3D that seems more like hi def tv then anything else

$18 a ticket to see a movie?

bah!

jeff bridges fan? see true grit. what a good film
I don't really balk at paying $18 for something I really want to see on a big, awesome screen. As is, I'll pay extra to see a movie at Arclight Hollywood, which has fewer screaming kids, reserved seating and no commercials. Having a restaurant/bar onsite and a membership card that earns me points towards free tickets or snacks also helps. I even like the Grove and Americana theaters, though they are crowded with kids and teens. My closest megamultiplex is Burbank 16, which is my last resort.

I think IMAX is as overrated as 3D. Only local IMAX I've been to is Universal Studios. The Cinerama Dome screen at Arclight is much bigger, less curved and easier to watch from any seat in the house.

Movies that are filmed in Digital 3D (not converted and not rush jobs) can be stunning. I'll even say that about Avatar, a movie I freakin' hated.

Haven't seen Tron yet and keep waffling because responses are so mixed. I may just bite the bullet and go this weekend.

And, yes, True Grit is really damn good. I loved it.
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Post by bigbropgo »

Loved it. I did see it in reg 3D and not the imax. I thought the 3d was complimentary and not overpowering. I am a fan of daft punk also, so I enjoyed the music. Most of the group I went with thought the music was ok or didn't notice. Visually pretty cool and I even bought the story. A couple of fight scenes were a little short.

Wait.....what was the question?

I don't have an imax right down the street and the ticket is pricey but I'd love to check this one out.
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Post by Hwarang »

ericalm wrote:I don't really balk at paying $18 for something I really want to see on a big, awesome screen.
Yep. I only go to one theater anymore - the one that provides an experience.
- Reserved upper deck area
- mega plush loveseat style seating
- bar and grill
- can have food and drinks sent in.
- 3d / all that jazz.

We really only go to "special" movies in the theater anymore, so why not make it a fun time? For everything else, there is netflix and my big azz TV at home.

I liked T:L ... I didn't expect too much out of it. The fx were great.

True Grit is next.
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Post by killbilly »

DISCLAIMER: I am of the age to whom Tron:Legacy was marketed to - people who were kids when the first one came out and loved it. I recently re-watched the original, and it stands up well within its context. You have to remember this was 1982. And yes, this is long.

Tron:Legacy falls in a category of cinema where it's not a particularly good movie, but it's a great flick. If you understand that distinction, you'll have no problems with the rest here. Couple things you need to know right away:

-There is content in Tron:Legacy that will make no sense if you didn't pay much attention to the first one. Confusion will ensue.
-It's a beautifully photographed composition; it's bleak, dystopian (and it's supposed to be.) The prettiest thing is Olivia Wilde. That's also as it should be.
-This movie desperately needed a different plot.

The writing is the Achilles' heel of the movie. While stilted in places, the flow of the plot was jerky instead of light-cycle smooth, (hah! see what I did there?) and there were issues with the characterization that contravened the original characters. That wouldn't normally be an issue, except for the fact that the movie ESTABLISHES itself in the opening minutes on the basis of the original characters.

For example, in the first movie, Flynn was a rogue-nerd. A software developer who got a raw deal. A rebel with a keyboard and an 8-bit graphics vision. But the beginning of T:L and the ensuing characterization play Flynn as an ex-hippie, somewhat burned out. The two Flynns aren't continuous and it's a source of bother.

Surprising was Wilde. Typical sci-fi tropes would have you believe her character would be cynical-combat-ass-kick-chick to the eleventh power. And this was not so. Rather, she plays it as a wide-eyed child, which works in the context of the plot and for Wilde - how can you not adore her dinner-plate-sized blue eyes?

Back to the writing. For this particular movie, it would have been a great boon for the screenwriter to team up with someone like Charlie Stross, Neal Stephenson, Bruce Sterling or even William Gibson, though I doubt Gibson would take the gig. The screen writer could handle the structural aspects, but an established writer with a love of the genre would have crafted the plot with respect for the audience.

And ultimately, this is where T:L falls short. I've seen this plot in a number of movies already. Dressing it up, even as beautifully as T:L does, doesn't make the plot new or interesting.

Yes, I enjoyed it. Yes, I will probably see it again. And yes, I will likely buy the DVD because ultimately it plays to the nostalgia of my childhood. But I do not harbor any illusions about it being a great movie.
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Re: [NSR]Tron:Legacy

Post by ericalm »

jrsjr wrote:In the Scott Pilgrim thread, I posted the following:
jrsjr wrote:
ericalm wrote:Tron's a much different deal because it's an established property.
Two weeks ago, I would have just nodded my head in agreement. Now, I'm thinking, Who exactly is Tron an established property with? In light of what we've just seen, I'm thinking Tron:Legacy will do about $47-55M in domestic box office.
...and this just goes to show you how insanely wrong I can be!
I think we were both wrong. It's a success, but I think that may be in spite of being an established property, not because of. Disney did everything they could to keep the original out of the hands of anyone who wanted to see it. The planned re-release was postponed until after the new year. They stopped restocking retailers with the DVD months ago. Copies were going for $100 on eBay. It was nuts.

But maybe it worked because Tron is MUCH better in hindsight. Easy to forget that aside from its significance in terms of theme and FX, the story is lousy and the acting is wooden.
bigbropgo wrote:I even bought the story.
This is my big reservation. The original story is basically the equivalent of "there are little people in your TV acting out all your shows." It's a pretty hard sell in the post-Matrix world.
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Post by bigbropgo »

I wanted to see it all along. But I was worried the story would be lame. As the movie moved along and as the plot line was revealed, I thought "ok I'll go with it". Killbilly hit it right. Its a realty great flick. And Olivia Wilde is a added bonus.
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Post by ericalm »

killbilly wrote:Back to the writing. For this particular movie, it would have been a great boon for the screenwriter to team up with someone like Charlie Stross, Neal Stephenson, Bruce Sterling or even William Gibson, though I doubt Gibson would take the gig.
None of them would! Stephenson and Gibson have pretty much gone beyond that straight up cyberpunk stuff anyways. (Stephenson's so freakin' good I'm actually considering re-realing the 3,000-ish page Baroque Cycle!)

Any screenwriter would be in the unfortunate position of having to create a compelling and somewhat believable story out of something that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Worse, they may have had to try to make sense of t he original to put it into a new context.

Not having seen T:L yet, I'm guessing they did what they could. At best, if they were going to bring in someone else, it should have probably been a script doctor to punch up dialogue and help with some plot points. Joss Whedon has done this for several action & sci-fi flicks and probably would have been a good choice for this.

I'm hoping this isn't Avatar all over: a senseless piece of junk dressed up as something more. I can appreciate the differences between popcorn blockbuster entertainment and more serious fare. Hell, Ghostbusters is one of my favorite movies and I will watch Independence Day (a pretty dumb, flawed and still awesome movie) or the first Back to the Future movies any time they're on and I'm bored. But our blockbusters have been getting worse and worse, even as the effects get better and better. The past few years have had a lot of disappointments.
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Re: [NSR]Tron:Legacy

Post by JHScoot »

ericalm wrote:
JHScoot wrote:nothing is worth seeing in a fake, overpriced imax theater. or that crappy "new" 3D that seems more like hi def tv then anything else

$18 a ticket to see a movie?

bah!

jeff bridges fan? see true grit. what a good film
I don't really balk at paying $18 for something I really want to see on a big, awesome screen. As is, I'll pay extra to see a movie at Arclight Hollywood, which has fewer screaming kids, reserved seating and no commercials. Having a restaurant/bar onsite and a membership card that earns me points towards free tickets or snacks also helps. I even like the Grove and Americana theaters, though they are crowded with kids and teens. My closest megamultiplex is Burbank 16, which is my last resort.

I think IMAX is as overrated as 3D. Only local IMAX I've been to is Universal Studios. The Cinerama Dome screen at Arclight is much bigger, less curved and easier to watch from any seat in the house.

Movies that are filmed in Digital 3D (not converted and not rush jobs) can be stunning. I'll even say that about Avatar, a movie I freakin' hated.

Haven't seen Tron yet and keep waffling because responses are so mixed. I may just bite the bullet and go this weekend.

And, yes, True Grit is really damn good. I loved it.
i more or less meant the so called "imax" screens in the local multiplex's and malls. these are completely bogus imo. a "big" small screen, and they are charging big prices. just seems wrong. especially when other showings are sold out and thats the only choice

i hated Avatar, also. the rainforest in space, essentially. complete with tree huggers and corporate baddies and exploited, innocent natives. the 3D failed to impress me, however

maybe my computer monitor is just too good and i stare at it too much....because it didn't seem much different looking at that film

i see blue people lol :shock:
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Post by killbilly »

ericalm wrote: None of them would! Stephenson and Gibson have pretty much gone beyond that straight up cyberpunk stuff anyways. (Stephenson's so freakin' good I'm actually considering re-realing the 3,000-ish page Baroque Cycle!)
I thought of that. This has more to do with storytelling than the cyberpunk genre. I named those guys because they are gifted storytellers with a respect, or at least understanding, of the audience. Jack Womack would have been another good one.
Any screenwriter would be in the unfortunate position of having to create a compelling and somewhat believable story out of something that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Worse, they may have had to try to make sense of t he original to put it into a new context.
I agree; it's a crap job for the screenwriter. This is why he needs an actual writer, a....navigator, if you will.

I suppose what I would have liked to see was the reverse of how "The Abyss" was novelized. Rather than handing a hack SF author a screenplay with a directive to write the book, they actually had Orson Scott Card on-set during the filming. He worked not only with James Cameron, but the actors themselves to create the backstory and fill in motivations and inner narratives. It remains one of my favorite books, ever.

Taking the approach of novelizing T:L - or at least creating a prosaic narrative and then deconstructing it for the screen might have been tedious or expensive, but I do think it would have yielded an ultimately more satisfying experience. T:L, at it's core, is a very cold movie. It's supposed to be at points, but it never thaws out.
Not having seen T:L yet, I'm guessing they did what they could. At best, if they were going to bring in someone else, it should have probably been a script doctor to punch up dialogue and help with some plot points. Joss Whedon has done this for several action & sci-fi flicks and probably would have been a good choice for this.
True, and I agree. Whedon generally has a gift for humanizing otherwise inhuman stock characters.
I'm hoping this isn't Avatar all over: a senseless piece of junk dressed up as something more. I can appreciate the differences between popcorn blockbuster entertainment and more serious fare. Hell, Ghostbusters is one of my favorite movies and I will watch Independence Day (a pretty dumb, flawed and still awesome movie) or the first Back to the Future movies any time they're on and I'm bored. But our blockbusters have been getting worse and worse, even as the effects get better and better. The past few years have had a lot of disappointments.
Sadly, I think it's Avatar-ish in that context, but Cameron made Avatar for a specific audience, just as T:L was. If they ever do the "Halo" movie it will likely be the same; many flaws forgiven by the fan base because of the extant whole.
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Post by charlie55 »

Jeez, you guys make going to the movies seem to be more work than going to work. :wink:
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tron

Post by david12df »

tron, awesome..
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Post by ericalm »

killbilly wrote:…Cameron made Avatar for a specific audience…
I'm not sure how specific "enough people to make it the unjustifiably highest grossing film of all time" is. :D
The higher 3d ticket fees probably helped but the previous topper was Titanic, which I also thought was lame. Maybe, someday, Cameron will do something as straight-up fun as Aliens again, but I've lost faith.
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Re: [NSR]Tron:Legacy

Post by trackpete »

jrsjr wrote:So has anybody seen it? Is it worth the extra $$$ to see it in IMAX?
I saw it opening night, and it was my first "3D" movie as well. I was actually really impressed at some of the 3D scenes and quite surprised how 3D some stuff looked, but overall I hated how dark and confusing the 3D was - I don't think I'm a fan.

Loved the movie though. It's rare that I'd say this, but it's truly worth watching just for the visuals, music, and sound effects. It's not just "popcorn entertainment" but something different, rarely done these days: it's more of a legend or a myth than a story (like say, 300).

The story is not intended to make sense or be logical or follow the rules (just like the original), so everyone who takes issue with it failing to do so misses the point in my mind. Rather, it is simply entertainment in a pure form - a protagonist we identify with, an enemy we empathize with yet wish to see overcome, a love interest we (the men at least) feel desire for, an "unexpected" betrayer, and a father figure for whom we feel unbiased affection (if we are familiar with the first). Proper old school story telling - no inner monologues, just forward motion through a tale of conflict.

In this manner, a "better story" would have crippled the movie, in my opinion. In fact, I thought they tried a bit too hard to give us some of the inner narrative and motivation to pander towards the expectations of a story-driven audience - it would have stood on its own better if they had simply allowed it to be the legendary adventure that they turned it into thirty minutes into the movie. It's the Odyssey, not Shakespeare.

From a side perspective, this may have been the first big-budget movie I've seen that had some legit technical people involved enough to have influence. Much of the nitty gritty computer tech shown in the movie (real world) paralleled real technology, even to the point of proper UNIX commands and the like (though at times they were used incorrectly and the prompts were wrong, one can get past that). I almost popped when a guy does a kill -9 PID instead of typing "kill_window command_alpha" or somesuch tripe.

(incidentally I am one of those who enjoyed the original but only because it was a true nerd movie, it doesn't hold much impressive on its own IMO - honestly I'd say it has less entertainment grounding than Legacy by a long shot, just makes up for it with nostalgia)
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Post by ericalm »

Saw and despite my reservations (see above) I really liked it. That's not just "enjoyed it" but actually "liked it." Overall, I'm impressed because it's a better movie than Disney had to make to make a bundle on it.

I agree with trackpete; it's more than just popcorn fare. It's a classic adventure/quest type story with a sci-fi backdrop. The writers did a great job of dealing with how nonsensical the premise of the original is. Instead of trying to make sense of it, they did enough to make it palatable, allow suspension of disbelief, and trust in the actors and director to sell it convincingly. The more they would have tried to explain, the deeper a hole they'd have dug for themselves.

The simplicity of the plot is a big point in its favor. IMHO, far too many movies are packed full of distractions and digressions that don't serve the story, characters or pacing. It's now quite as efficient as something like "Up in the Air," but better than, say, the both over-and under-written mess of "Avatar."

Going way out on a limb, the story is a cross between "The Tempest" and "Fifth Element."

The effects are good, but the style was maybe a little too tied to the original. It's like Flynn creates this whole new world without thinking to add more colors. The light cycles are stunning.

Garrett Hedlund is okay. Olivia Wilde pulls off the difficult task of not just being "the hot chick." It's probably her least Olivia Wilde-ish performance to date. She also pulls off the difficult task of those asymmetrical bangs. Jeff Bridges is Jeff Bridges and with the exception of that TV movie about the poorly-behaved border collie, he's always fun to watch.

My big fear now: They laid many seeds for a sequel. Cillian Murphy, uncredited, as Dillinger's evil genius kid? Get ready for Tron 3.
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Post by killbilly »

ericalm wrote: My big fear now: They laid many seeds for a sequel. Cillian Murphy, uncredited, as Dillinger's evil genius kid? Get ready for Tron 3.
Good Lord, you're right.

I recognized him but figured he was just phoning in a cameo.

I dunno. I see what you guys are saying. Maybe I take my sci-fi/geek canon a little too seriously. I just wish it had had a better storyline.

Pardon me while I yell at some kids to get off my lawn...
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Post by ericalm »

killbilly wrote:
ericalm wrote: My big fear now: They laid many seeds for a sequel. Cillian Murphy, uncredited, as Dillinger's evil genius kid? Get ready for Tron 3.
Good Lord, you're right.

I recognized him but figured he was just phoning in a cameo.
There were several other things near the end that leave the door open. I don't want to unleash any spoilers. :)
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Post by TVB »

ericalm wrote:It's like Flynn creates this whole new world without thinking to add more colors.
Bah. Eight bits should be enough for anybody.
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Post by jrsjr »

I found the following very interesting quote in a BoxOfficeMojo.com article about last week's box office.
Brandon Gray writing for Box Office Mojo wrote:Tron Legacy pulled in $44.3 million, slowing 35 percent from its opening week and growing its total to $112.5 million in 14 days. In estimated attendance, the sci-fi sequel has essentially matched the original Tron's final score.
:shock:
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Post by Roose Hurro »

wifiducky wrote:going to see True Grit i wanna see it I WANNA SEEE
I saw the ORIGINAL, with John Wayne, in the theater... long, long ago. I just can't imagine anyone else as Rooster.

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Post by ericalm »

Roose Hurro wrote:
wifiducky wrote:going to see True Grit i wanna see it I WANNA SEEE
I saw the ORIGINAL, with John Wayne, in the theater... long, long ago. I just can't imagine anyone else as Rooster.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cure is to see the sequel with Katherine Hepburn. It's SO AWFUL you'll be begging to see someone else as Rooster.

This is one of those remakes that doesn't try to reproduce the original, doesn't try to improve on it or take it someplace else, but manages to respect the source and stand up on its own.

As good as Bridges is, the girl is stellar.
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Post by Roose Hurro »

ericalm wrote:
Roose Hurro wrote:
wifiducky wrote:going to see True Grit i wanna see it I WANNA SEEE
I saw the ORIGINAL, with John Wayne, in the theater... long, long ago. I just can't imagine anyone else as Rooster.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cure is to see the sequel with Katherine Hepburn. It's SO AWFUL you'll be begging to see someone else as Rooster.

This is one of those remakes that doesn't try to reproduce the original, doesn't try to improve on it or take it someplace else, but manages to respect the source and stand up on its own.

As good as Bridges is, the girl is stellar.

I've been hearing that, and though John Wayne is "Rooster" in my eyes, I'd have no problem seeing this movie, if only to see how the new cast handled the roles, and how the story may have been changed. I'm just not sure I'll be able to see it in the theater, so I might have to wait for the DVD. I've been missing a lot of interesting films, lately, due to my ongoing, tight financial situatiion.

Besides, I'm a cowboy at heart, and I love a good western. They don't make them very often anymore. (3:10 To Yuma was excellent...)

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Post by charlie55 »

"Fill your hand, you son of a bitch!"

IMHO, one of the all-time great movie lines, and oft repeated in the parking lot at my office.
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Post by TVB »

I just wish that, instead of sequels and remakes of good movies, that are just fine as they are, directors would remake bad movies, and fix them. Someone give me a watchable version of Howard the Duck, Anger Management, Mannequin, Ace Ventura, The Spirit, Gigli, Whiteout, Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot, or Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever.
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Post by ericalm »

TVB wrote:I just wish that, instead of sequels and remakes of good movies, that are just fine as they are, directors would remake bad movies, and fix them. Someone give me a watchable version of Howard the Duck, Anger Management, Mannequin, Ace Ventura, The Spirit, Gigli, Whiteout, Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot, or Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever.
I couldn't make it through 30 minutes of The Spirit and I'm a big Will Eisner & Frank Miller fan. On the other hand, I made it through Howard the Duck at least a couple times.

Also, a lot of people will argue Ace Ventura is a great movie. I know an NYU film school grad who tried to convince me of this. Pretty sure he didn't learn that in Scorcese's class.
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Post by killbilly »

TVB wrote:I just wish that, instead of sequels and remakes of good movies, that are just fine as they are, directors would remake bad movies, and fix them. Someone give me a watchable version of Howard the Duck,


:shock:

How could you not love Howard the Duck?

I'd say half my preteen hormones were caused by Lea Thompson in that movie...her and Kelly LeBrock.
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Post by Tocsik »

Not to derail, but I would love to see a remake of Escape From New York; applying 2011 techniques to a 1981 movie.
The film is very good as-is but some modernization ("futurization"?) could be great if done right.

But I suppose anything is great when done right. Take The Mummy with Brendon Fraser. It's just plain fun.

Some things should never even be conceived. Like Yogi Bear as a feature film.........
.::I know the voices in my head aren't real, but man do they come up with some great ideas::.
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ericalm
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Post by ericalm »

Tocsik wrote:Not to derail, but I would love to see a remake of Escape From New York; applying 2011 techniques to a 1981 movie.
The film is very good as-is but some modernization ("futurization"?) could be great if done right.
For me this is one of those that's so attached to its time period (when it was made, that is) that redoing it now wouldn't make sense.

Of course, another one like that is Red Dawn, and that didn't prevent a remake. OOoh, COMMUNISTS! I'm so scared.
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TVB

Post by TVB »

ericalm wrote:For me this is one of those that's so attached to its time period (when it was made, that is) that redoing it now wouldn't make sense.
On the other hand, I keep expecting a remake of The Grapes of Wrath or It's a Wonderful Life....
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