Whats Up Chinese 50cc-150cc buddy clone scoots for $500-$700

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:43 am

Looking for a second guest scoot I see these new 150CC Buddy/Vino look-alike scoots for only $500-$700 OTD. I looked up some You-tube reviews but posted comments are touchy that its the operator not the Chinese scooter that is as good as Japanese or German. Speaking from experience for the dirt bike community I can say that the difference is like the darkest of nights and the brightest of days. Japanese-European off road quality is as far as the east is from the west when it comes to mainline Chinese. So what about scooters, not many reviews but allot of sellers even online. Is there a $700 150cc Buddy quality scoot made in China. I guy here in town is selling this one, any good?
http://mohave.craigslist.org/mcy/2368543207.html

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:35 am

Generally these mainland Chinese knockoffs are poorly constructed and - more important - poorly supported with parts, warranty, or other service. The Taiwanese scooters such as the Buddy, Kymco, and Sym are as good a bargain as you are going to find. Beyond that, you get what you pay for IMO.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:50 am

Needs a battery.

Usually it's 'just needs a little carb work'. But

what Dooglas said. Maybe you'll get lucky but statistically speaking, you are going to spend the money one way or the other - initial price + maintenance and gas, or initial price repairs, maintenance and gas.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun May 08, 2011 6:13 am

Buddy quality, no. will china scoots run if you get a little lucky and can "wrench" on them? many do, many don't. i have read its all a crap shoot

you can have one of those scooters delivered new to your door "new" and fully assembled for just over $800btw

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/150c ... 0sc-04.htm

guy on another forum is chronicling his experience with a recent purchase

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666002

video of some other guy showing his

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jnm7TPm_FCw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390">

they are cheap, look cheap, and are made from some inferior parts and castings, but they run

this next guy has over 10,000 "trouble free" miles on his china scoot. sort of an irritating poster if you read this forum, as he likes to post a lot about how there is "no difference" between chinese scooters and japanese or taiwan. which is an lol, really. its like chinese scooter propaganda!

http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cg ... read=30592

still, it was $1000 and has given him 10,000 miles in about a year or so. so HE got his monies worth

i assure you build quality, quality of materials, and the overall feel of the scoot is most likely inferior, however. most likely not even on par with budget scoots from brand name makers. talk about squeaks, rattles, and pops. poor fit and finish, for sure

the scooter you linked with the dead battery? offer $400, $500 tops. and its still risky imo. maybe even more so used. yeah, $400. seller is probably hoping for $500

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun May 08, 2011 10:53 am

I'd try to search for POC Phil's public service announcements concerning china scoots. It's one thing to have a scooter die on you, it's another thing to have a scooters engine continue to run just fine but have it's POS anti-lock brakes die on you at 40mph. I'm not say'n you couldn't find a real gem amongst all the crap that are china scoots but unless I had absolutely no other choice I wouldn't ride one till the quality improved. Hell, my bicycles cost more than these drop shipped scooters. I certainly wouldn't buy one and let anyone but me ride it, even if I could live with the guilt of putting someone on an inferior and often unsafe scooter, once they did a bit O' research after their accident, you may just find yourself in a lawsuit.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun May 08, 2011 12:51 pm

Personally, if I were looking for an occasional-use second scoot, I'd take my chances on a well-used known brand over a new no-name of unknown quality from P-R-of-China. At least with the former you know it was made well in the first place.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sun May 08, 2011 2:25 pm

Wow, so I guess its pretty much like the same story with the comparison between CPC Chinese and Japanese/Euro off-road machines. maybe not quite as stark since japan has been out of the scoot making industry for decades and relies on Taiwan and Korea for there retro scoot manufacturing. From what I have seen and it is best demonstrated off-road where the torture test is a given, the stark difference has almost nothing to do with assembly plant worker ability as human beings can be taught to assemble almost anything, it all seems to come down to machine and manufactured parts quality (machined tolerances), performance-technology (metalic brake pads vs cardboard), and materials (high grade treated alloys vs pot metal). I have literally seen a CPC Chinese dirt bikes hit 1 pothole off road and bend a rim completely. The differences in ATV/Quads is even greater since Japan invented the ATV/Quad which were originally for Japanese farmers and are still manufactured primarily in Japan, the ones that are awesome anyway.

So I guess there are the differences, Japanese and Taiwan/Korean scooters re pretty much on par "very good" quality/values. However with respect to Motorcycle, ATV and automobile quality/value the Japanese are far superior "awesome" with euro quality/value a close second and everyone else behined the pack IMO.

Thanks everyone for your advice, I will take it and let the temptation pass for these candy looking scooters that apparently are sweet to the taste but quickly tern to mud & gravel in your mouth.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:56 pm

There are still scooters manufactured in Japan, but most are made in Taiwan, Vietnam or China.

Korea? Are any made in Korea sold in the US?

Almost all major scooter companies now do some of their manufacturing in China. Notable exceptions are PGO, which builds most of the Genuines, and LML, which builds the Stella.

Not everything built in China is crap, but when it comes to these generic bikes, the no-name scooters, the clones and copies, most of it is. Some may be better than others, but the problem is that the product is often identical in style and it's very hard to tell what might be a little better than others. When it comes to the sub-$1K stuff, though, it's not worth taking a chance on it being anything but junk.

There's a reason established, legit shops won't carry these, though they could probably sell tons of them. There's a reason many of these shops won't even work on them. Liability. Fix the busted exhaust, something else will likely break in a week and the customers will come complaining.

Beyond build quality, there are many issues with no warranty support. Worse, many of these things are illegally imported and can't be registered once purchased. Buy a $800 scooter online? Who's going to assemble and prep it? Who will service it? I know of a couple instances where the cheap scooters were incorrectly assembled and the front brakes either didn't work or failed.

What's frustrating is that I get asked for buying advice from people all the time. I get email from strangers. I have offered to go with people to look at scoots. But as much as I warn them away from these things, many refuse to believe that some deals are simply too good to be true or that there are many scams out there. I emailed with a local woman for weeks, patiently giving her advice and even sending her CL posts of good used deals. She asked me to go look at a BMS Heritage, saying that she knew I didn't recommend them, but… Not recommend them? I've seen the exhaust fall off one!

Why the hell won't people listen?!

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun May 08, 2011 6:33 pm

I was reading in another forum (yeah, sorry, I admit it, I'm seeing other forums too) where someone was complaining about how bad the rear brake was on his cheap China made scooter. It turned out that the factory had neglected to connect the rear brake to the hand lever. It's usually complete newbies that buy these types of scooters because they don't know the difference between a quality product and something thrown together from recycled tin cans and welded-up by someone who just learned to weld yesterday. To them if it looks the same, it must be the same. I've even read posts were they put down people who buy scooters from Honda or Vespa or any of the other major brands because they think their $800 scooter is as good as those for a lot less money. To make it worst, being newbies, they have no clue how to fix anything on their new scooters nor do they have someone nearby to help them.

I borrowed a cheap scooter once that had welds that looked like a blind monkey had done them. The frame was so spindly that it flexed severly in the turns to the point it was dangerous to ride. I saw screws installed sideways into their respective holes and forced in with a power driver. Wiring was hanging out in several places and allowed to rub on metal edges. The gas tank filler fitting broke when the scooter had less than 350 miles on it, and the rear brake was a request, not a command. It was horrible I tell ya, horrible!

I still get nightmares from riding that thing...
The only good thing about it was that for a 125cc scooter, it was able to go 80 mph - well, that's what it's speedodometer said so it must be true!

Post by **jrsjr** » Sun May 08, 2011 6:38 pm

ericalm wrote:There are still scooters manufactured in Japan, but most are made in Taiwan, Vietnam or China.

Korea? Are any made in Korea sold in the US?

Hyosung, maybe?

ericalm wrote:I emailed with a local woman for weeks, patiently giving her advice and even sending her CL posts of good used deals. She asked me to go look at a BMS Heritage, saying that she knew I didn't recommend them, but… Not recommend them? I've seen the exhaust fall off one!

Okay, you really are way more patient than me. I really would not have been that patient.

ericalm wrote:Why the hell won't people listen?!

Because they are convinced they are going to get a deal!

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sun May 08, 2011 7:26 pm

yes the hyosungs that are here are made in korea

honestly i wrench on them your best bet is to pony up and buy a good name brand
if you can wrench you might be able to keep the cloes alive
but here is the deal you have to know where to get parts and what of the name brands parts fit on the clone bikes
and not all parts interchage just like the budy 50 is based on the old yamaha vino and the roughouse is fairly simular to the zuma some of the internals are not the same
the quailty on many of the tiwian off shoots like the genuine(pgo) are on par with the japanes brands (many are now made in tiwain)
why is that they started life as sub contractors for the big brand names
pgo had dealings with piagio and i belive yamaha
sym kymco with honda
hyosung was a sub for suzuki

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sun May 08, 2011 8:43 pm

Being mostly an off-roader at heart, its amazing how no other Asian manufacture (other then the Japanese of course) have been able to make any kind of inroad into the "serious" off-road enduro/MX/quad recreational market. Every-time they have tried by handing over a free test unit to a popular off-road magazine for short & long term testing, the results have been embarrassing lol. And even though the recreational race replica and even cruiser market is more forgiving, everyone know that if a new guy is joining a team ride (500+ miles) driving a bargain basement Hyosung, someone in the group is going to have to give up repair supplies, help with wrenching or worse have a passenger.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:41 pm

JHScoot wrote:Buddy quality, no. will china scoots run if you get a little lucky and can "wrench" on them? many do, many don't. i have read its all a crap shoot

you can have one of those scooters delivered new to your door "new" and fully assembled for just over $800btw

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/150c ... 0sc-04.htm

guy on another forum is chronicling his experience with a recent purchase

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666002

video of some other guy showing his

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jnm7TPm_FCw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390">

they are cheap, look cheap, and are made from some inferior parts and castings, but they run

this next guy has over 10,000 "trouble free" miles on his china scoot. sort of an irritating poster if you read this forum, as he likes to post a lot about how there is "no difference" between chinese scooters and japanese or taiwan. which is an lol, really. its like chinese scooter propaganda!

http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cg ... read=30592

still, it was $1000 and has given him 10,000 miles in about a year or so. so HE got his monies worth

i assure you build quality, quality of materials, and the overall feel of the scoot is most likely inferior, however. most likely not even on par with budget scoots from brand name makers. talk about squeaks, rattles, and pops. poor fit and finish, for sure

the scooter you linked with the dead battery? offer $400, $500 tops. and its still risky imo. maybe even more so used. yeah, $400. seller is probably hoping for $500

I have 2200 miles on a china scoot.....so dont be so quick to judge....Im gettin ready to pull the trigger on a Blackjack.....but my lil china scoot has been a godsend

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sun May 08, 2011 10:00 pm

Love that "Burn Warning" label on the muffler in the video. Surprised that it doesn't say "Do not eat". Probably the best-made and most expensive part on the whole scoot.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun May 08, 2011 10:28 pm

Raiderfn31 wrote:
JHScoot wrote:Buddy quality, no. will china scoots run if you get a little lucky and can "wrench" on them? many do, many don't. i have read its all a crap shoot

you can have one of those scooters delivered new to your door "new" and fully assembled for just over $800btw

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/150c ... 0sc-04.htm

guy on another forum is chronicling his experience with a recent purchase

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666002

video of some other guy showing his

they are cheap, look cheap, and are made from some inferior parts and castings, but they run

this next guy has over 10,000 "trouble free" miles on his china scoot. sort of an irritating poster if you read this forum, as he likes to post a lot about how there is "no difference" between chinese scooters and japanese or taiwan. which is an lol, really. its like chinese scooter propaganda!

http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cg ... read=30592

still, it was $1000 and has given him 10,000 miles in about a year or so. so HE got his monies worth

i assure you build quality, quality of materials, and the overall feel of the scoot is most likely inferior, however. most likely not even on par with budget scoots from brand name makers. talk about squeaks, rattles, and pops. poor fit and finish, for sure

the scooter you linked with the dead battery? offer $400, $500 tops. and its still risky imo. maybe even more so used. yeah, $400. seller is probably hoping for $500

I have 2200 miles on a china scoot.....so dont be so quick to judge....Im gettin ready to pull the trigger on a Blackjack.....but my lil china scoot has been a godsend

i think i gave the china scoots a fair shake, here. heck knowing just a little about them now i might even gamble one day and buy one just for fun or otherwise. but i also think you will find your Blackjack a more refined and overall better built and higher quality machine once acquainted. plus i think your china scoot is known for being one of the better ones

like eric said earlier, they are not all created equal. but many have no idea of how to tell one from another or know enough to tell a halfway decent Znen model from some poop that came out of a ramshackle factory down the road from Znen

i am also replying to your PM soon

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sun May 08, 2011 11:24 pm

This new CL add ( a CPC China model I presume) sort of speaks volumes to what we are talking about here. The price sound reasonable considering the displacement, age, condition, and mileage of this maxi mystery model scooter. But the description which mentions the electrical problems as if they are almost ignorable says it all. I bet this seller feels like an angler using the same fish lure that got him to bit lol.
http://mohave.craigslist.org/mcy/2366817893.html

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon May 09, 2011 1:45 am

CWO4GUNNER wrote:This new CL add ( a CPC China model I presume) sort of speaks volumes to what we are talking about here. The price sound reasonable considering the displacement, age, condition, and mileage of this maxi mystery model scooter. But the description which mentions the electrical problems as if they are almost ignorable says it all. I bet this seller feels like an angler using the same fish lure that got him to bit lol.
http://mohave.craigslist.org/mcy/2366817893.html

i also have to question the knowledge of some who buy these scooters so far as what they are worth to a buyer used, how much to pay for them new, and the fact you can get a new model cheaper then they are selling their old, problematic model for. i mean some have overpaid greatly for their chinese scooters, and you never want to do that!

so far as the $1675 asked for the scooter you listed....

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/250c ... 0sc-13.htm

so $1675 can be a problem for a used scooter with electrical issues when you can get a new model delivered to your door for just a bit more, if not less

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Mon May 09, 2011 3:17 am

Are these crap?

http://www.hammerheadoffroad.com/lavita150.html

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon May 09, 2011 3:37 am

i have read good things about them and while made in china i believe Adly had a hand in them in the beginning, which is a respected Taiwanese OEM

this new MB member actually posted a "hello" thread over the weekend and he has one. the thread has some discussion, pics, and video of the scoot

topic18385.html

and here is a guy who had a hand in getting the whole project off the ground and seems like a sincere dude so far as saying what the scooter is and isn't and its aspirations

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jPxHYFijuIY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Mon May 09, 2011 3:37 am

desmolicious wrote:Are these crap?

http://www.hammerheadoffroad.com/lavita150.html

What is funny is when I put my zip code in at that site to find a dealer, th dealer does not even carry that brand. What I did notice is that the dealer that did pop up in my area has a sale on the Genuine Rattler 100cc 2-stroke for $2299, is that a fast and furious Genie or a model with history of maintenance problems?
http://www.vegasmotorsports.com/product ... uct_id=277

PS- I hope everyone remembered to call there mother today!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:39 am

Raiderfn31 wrote:
JHScoot wrote:Buddy quality, no. will china scoots run if you get a little lucky and can "wrench" on them? many do, many don't. i have read its all a crap shoot

you can have one of those scooters delivered new to your door "new" and fully assembled for just over $800btw

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/150c ... 0sc-04.htm

guy on another forum is chronicling his experience with a recent purchase

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666002

video of some other guy showing his

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jnm7TPm_FCw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390">

they are cheap, look cheap, and are made from some inferior parts and castings, but they run

this next guy has over 10,000 "trouble free" miles on his china scoot. sort of an irritating poster if you read this forum, as he likes to post a lot about how there is "no difference" between chinese scooters and japanese or taiwan. which is an lol, really. its like chinese scooter propaganda!

http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cg ... read=30592

still, it was $1000 and has given him 10,000 miles in about a year or so. so HE got his monies worth

i assure you build quality, quality of materials, and the overall feel of the scoot is most likely inferior, however. most likely not even on par with budget scoots from brand name makers. talk about squeaks, rattles, and pops. poor fit and finish, for sure

the scooter you linked with the dead battery? offer $400, $500 tops. and its still risky imo. maybe even more so used. yeah, $400. seller is probably hoping for $500

I have 2200 miles on a china scoot.....so dont be so quick to judge....Im gettin ready to pull the trigger on a Blackjack.....but my lil china scoot has been a godsend

Don't take this as a knock, because I'm genuinely curious. Do you feel like it'll make it to 10k? I'm genuinely curious, because in my book, thats really not that many miles. Granted I put a TON more miles on my bike than most people, but I'd put 2200 miles on my scooter in less than 2 months.

The Buddy wasn't even totally broken in till around 1500 miles, so I feel like 2200 miles is almost brand new.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:56 am

I've actually been thinking about buying a used China made scooter just to play around with it. Even though I'm a pretty decent mechanic, there are some questionable things I'd like to try on the engine and suspension of a disposable scooter rather than my Blur. Also, if it gets stolen, no great lost. Sorta like wearing a Timex watch rather than a Rolex if I'm going out to the rough side of town.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:58 am

CWO4GUNNER wrote:
desmolicious wrote:Are these crap?

http://www.hammerheadoffroad.com/lavita150.html
What is funny is when I put my zip code in at that site to find a dealer, th dealer does not even carry that brand. What I did notice is that the dealer that did pop up in my area has a sale on the Genuine Rattler 100cc 2-stroke for $2299, is that a fast and furious Genie or a model with history of maintenance problems?
http://www.vegasmotorsports.com/product ... uct_id=277

PS- I hope everyone remembered to call there mother today!

The La Vita, at least, was designed to some degree in the US and originally built under the direction of a US company.

As I've said before, much like Taiwan a few decades ago, the quality manufacturing in mainland China is currently done in partnership with foreign firms, which have higher standards for QC and manufacturing. This does not mean all the products of these partnerships are good. And I've seen instances of US companies basically "partnering" by making minor style and color changes and calling something new.

Another concern is whether some of these companies will last long enough to provide warranty and parts support over the next few years. Roketa, Tank and many others that were big in '08 have since folded. Some were targeted by the DOT and received fines for illegally importing product or distributing non-approved product.

Again, sometimes the promise of a really good deal inhibits common sense. I've been guilty of this when it comes to a few things, but never something as big or expensive as a scooter. With some of them, it's not just he likelihood of mechanical failure; they can be a danger to riders.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:01 am

babblefish wrote:I've actually been thinking about buying a used China made scooter just to play around with it. Even though I'm a pretty decent mechanic, there are some questionable things I'd like to try on the engine and suspension of a disposable scooter rather than my Blur. Also, if it gets stolen, no great lost. Sorta like wearing a Timex watch rather than a Rolex if I'm going out to the rough side of town.

I've got one you can HAVE if you can get it down to you

It was shipped as a 50cc 2T GY6, but due to who knows what the factory installed a 65cc top end on the bike when it was built. It needs work. the engine seized at 650 miles on the clock... It was given to me by one of those people 'wanting a deal'. I just want it outa my garage to make room for a scooter I actually want to work on

Post by **ericalm** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:01 am

babblefish wrote:I've actually been thinking about buying a used China made scooter just to play around with it. Even though I'm a pretty decent mechanic, there are some questionable things I'd like to try on the engine and suspension of a disposable scooter rather than my Blur. Also, if it gets stolen, no great lost. Sorta like wearing a Timex watch rather than a Rolex if I'm going out to the rough side of town.

For the price, you can probably pick up a used Honda or Yamaha. Just sayin'.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:08 am

Kaos wrote:
babblefish wrote:I've actually been thinking about buying a used China made scooter just to play around with it. Even though I'm a pretty decent mechanic, there are some questionable things I'd like to try on the engine and suspension of a disposable scooter rather than my Blur. Also, if it gets stolen, no great lost. Sorta like wearing a Timex watch rather than a Rolex if I'm going out to the rough side of town.
I've got one you can HAVE if you can get it down to you
It was shipped as a 50cc 2T GY6, but due to who knows what the factory installed a 65cc top end on the bike when it was built. It needs work. the engine seized at 650 miles on the clock... It was given to me by one of those people 'wanting a deal'. I just want it outa my garage to make room for a scooter I actually want to work on

Ha! Thanks Kaos, but I'd be looking for a 4-stroke 150cc. I still want to try my idea of an electric supercharger. Beef up the charging system and install a 50 AH lithium battery pack and I'm good to go.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:09 am

ericalm wrote:
babblefish wrote:I've actually been thinking about buying a used China made scooter just to play around with it. Even though I'm a pretty decent mechanic, there are some questionable things I'd like to try on the engine and suspension of a disposable scooter rather than my Blur. Also, if it gets stolen, no great lost. Sorta like wearing a Timex watch rather than a Rolex if I'm going out to the rough side of town.
For the price, you can probably pick up a used Honda or Yamaha. Just sayin'.

Parts for those cost more and I'd hate to ruin something that one day may be collectable.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:11 am

ericalm wrote:
babblefish wrote:I've actually been thinking about buying a used China made scooter just to play around with it. Even though I'm a pretty decent mechanic, there are some questionable things I'd like to try on the engine and suspension of a disposable scooter rather than my Blur. Also, if it gets stolen, no great lost. Sorta like wearing a Timex watch rather than a Rolex if I'm going out to the rough side of town.
For the price, you can probably pick up a used Honda or Yamaha. Just sayin'.

yeah but then the scooter may actually be a good one, worthy of care. sounds to me like babblefish just wants something he can disrespect for awhile

like pamala anderson

you wouldn't want to do that to a defenseless Honda or Yamaha

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon May 09, 2011 6:22 am

I wouldn't mind disrespecting a Yamaha Zuma 125... Lots of go fast parts for those.

And for the record, I don't believe in disrespecting any woman...well, maybe a couple of my ex-girlfriends, but that's a different story...

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon May 09, 2011 9:05 am

yeah sometimes they earn our disrespect. however other times they want it :naughty:

Post by **ericalm** » Mon May 09, 2011 11:13 am

JHScoot wrote:yeah sometimes they earn our disrespect.

This is most definitely not the place to disrespect them.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon May 09, 2011 12:08 pm

i will remember that if i ever find anyone doing so

oh and just to update the thread that guy on ADVrider with the chinese scooter thread updated it. 2000 miles on the scooter and may be having some rear end problems. he is fearing its something to do with the swingarm.which apparently is important

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:59 pm

babblefish wrote:I've actually been thinking about buying a used China made scooter just to play around with it. Even though I'm a pretty decent mechanic, there are some questionable things I'd like to try on the engine and suspension of a disposable scooter rather than my Blur. Also, if it gets stolen, no great lost. Sorta like wearing a Timex watch rather than a Rolex if I'm going out to the rough side of town.

Thing is, if your Timex breaks, it does not really have a chance to injure you.

If your bike breaks while you are riding it, there is a possibility of crashing and getting hurt.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue May 10, 2011 2:32 pm

A while back, I had purchased a Tank (Chinese) scooter for my wife to destroy while she was learning how to ride. I had chronicled some of the issues I had in a different post. In the end, it still ran after 2 years of abuse from my wife.

But before we call everything bad from China, remember there are 3 main stream scooter manufacturers builting product there: SYM, Kymco, and Piaggio. SYM is producing the Fiddle II and the Lance Cali Classic. Kymco is making the Super 8 and the Agility. Piaggio is manufacturing the Piaggio Fly. Personally, only the Fly and the Agility are worth considering. However, they are priced higher than the crap scooters.

To the pain of Piaggio (including Vespa) owners, many of the parts on their scooters are made in China.

BTW, my wife is now scooting safely on a Buddy.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:03 pm

Like I pointed out and alluded, mt first hand experience with most CPC Chinese based company, drastically inferior (junk) cycle and quad products has absolutely nothing to do with cultural or geographical strength or weaknesses. Yes allot of of these scooters from around the world are assembled or even manufactured in CPC China with the technology, oversight, and craftsmanship of the originators. Eventually CPC China scooter manufacturers will get it right and those off-the-wall $700 models will really start to shine with some quality and reliability just like it did for Japan, Korea, and Taiwan who used to make junk back in the 60's. But in the mean time I have to call it like I see it at least in the off-road ATV and Cycle market I see nothing coming out of CPC China but scrap metal, no disrespect intended.

pcbikedude wrote:before we call everything bad from China, remember there are 3 main stream scooter manufacturers builting product there: SYM, Kymco, and Piaggio. SYM is producing the Fiddle II and the Lance Cali Classic. Kymco is making the Super 8 and the Agility. Piaggio is manufacturing the Piaggio Fly. Personally, only the Fly and the Agility are worth considering. However, they are priced higher than the crap scooters.
To the pain of Piaggio (including Vespa) owners, many of the parts on their scooters are made in China.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:10 pm

pcbikedude wrote:But before we call everything bad from China, remember there are 3 main stream scooter manufacturers builting product there: SYM, Kymco, and Piaggio. SYM is producing the Fiddle II and the Lance Cali Classic. Kymco is making the Super 8 and the Agility.

And the Like!

It's not that Chinese manufacturers can't build a good scooter -- its that they can't build a good scooter for the price that a lot of U.S. wholesalers want to pay per unit (and they have not yet learned that reputation is valuable, and that saying "no" to building cheap, dangerous junk is sometimes more profitable in the long-run).
.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:53 pm

ericalm wrote:There are still scooters manufactured in Japan, but most are made in Taiwan, Vietnam or China.

Japan still makes TONS of scooters. Many of them just aren't available in the US.

For example from Suzuki we can only get the Burgman 400 and 650. Suzuki also makes 125 and 250 versions of the Burgman (Skywave)
# UH125 Burgman 125 - Often misquoted as AN125. The AN125 is an earlier Suzuki model and shares none of the Burgman traits. Burgman UH125 is classed as a super scooter. AN125 is a scooter.
# UH200 Burgman 200
# AN250 Burgman 250
# AN400 Burgman 400
# AN400 Burgman 400 ABS
# AN650 Burgman 650
# AN650A Burgman 650 Executive

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:58 pm

Kaos wrote:
babblefish wrote:I've actually been thinking about buying a used China made scooter just to play around with it. Even though I'm a pretty decent mechanic, there are some questionable things I'd like to try on the engine and suspension of a disposable scooter rather than my Blur. Also, if it gets stolen, no great lost. Sorta like wearing a Timex watch rather than a Rolex if I'm going out to the rough side of town.
I've got one you can HAVE if you can get it down to you
It was shipped as a 50cc 2T GY6, but due to who knows what the factory installed a 65cc top end on the bike when it was built. It needs work. the engine seized at 650 miles on the clock... It was given to me by one of those people 'wanting a deal'. I just want it outa my garage to make room for a scooter I actually want to work on

Take it to a rally and set it on fire!

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:24 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
ericalm wrote:There are still scooters manufactured in Japan, but most are made in Taiwan, Vietnam or China.
Japan still makes TONS of scooters. Many of them just aren't available in the US.

For example from Suzuki we can only get the Burgman 400 and 650. Suzuki also makes 125 and 250 versions of the Burgman (Skywave)
# UH125 Burgman 125 - Often misquoted as AN125. The AN125 is an earlier Suzuki model and shares none of the Burgman traits. Burgman UH125 is classed as a super scooter. AN125 is a scooter.
# UH200 Burgman 200
# AN250 Burgman 250
# AN400 Burgman 400
# AN400 Burgman 400 ABS
# AN650 Burgman 650
# AN650A Burgman 650 Executive

Not just Suzuki. Honda and Yamaha also. Though I can't list them all, the big three makes quite a few scooters that we may never see here (I've ridden a few of them). The scooter mindset of most Americans is for "vintage" type scooters while the rest of the world has moved on years ago. But, I'm starting to notice a change toward more sporting scooter designs in this country. Maybe in five years or so, we'll be where Europe and Asia were ten years ago.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:35 pm

Kaos wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote:
JHScoot wrote:Buddy quality, no. will china scoots run if you get a little lucky and can "wrench" on them? many do, many don't. i have read its all a crap shoot

you can have one of those scooters delivered new to your door "new" and fully assembled for just over $800btw

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/150c ... 0sc-04.htm

guy on another forum is chronicling his experience with a recent purchase

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666002

video of some other guy showing his

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jnm7TPm_FCw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390">

they are cheap, look cheap, and are made from some inferior parts and castings, but they run

this next guy has over 10,000 "trouble free" miles on his china scoot. sort of an irritating poster if you read this forum, as he likes to post a lot about how there is "no difference" between chinese scooters and japanese or taiwan. which is an lol, really. its like chinese scooter propaganda!

http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cg ... read=30592

still, it was $1000 and has given him 10,000 miles in about a year or so. so HE got his monies worth

i assure you build quality, quality of materials, and the overall feel of the scoot is most likely inferior, however. most likely not even on par with budget scoots from brand name makers. talk about squeaks, rattles, and pops. poor fit and finish, for sure

the scooter you linked with the dead battery? offer $400, $500 tops. and its still risky imo. maybe even more so used. yeah, $400. seller is probably hoping for $500

I have 2200 miles on a china scoot.....so dont be so quick to judge....Im gettin ready to pull the trigger on a Blackjack.....but my lil china scoot has been a godsend
Don't take this as a knock, because I'm genuinely curious. Do you feel like it'll make it to 10k? I'm genuinely curious, because in my book, thats really not that many miles. Granted I put a TON more miles on my bike than most people, but I'd put 2200 miles on my scooter in less than 2 months
The Buddy wasn't even totally broken in till around 1500 miles, so I feel like 2200 miles is almost brand new.

My gut feeling is that it will make it to 10,000 miles. I have taken good care of it mind you and its garage kept. Its a 2-stroke BTW.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:18 pm

All of these considerations of what and why to buy any vehicle comes down to true monetary value over reliability and performance. For example in truth a Honda Accord is far less expensive then all of it US counterparts by as much as 50% less expensive because it is a very high performing, extremely low maintenance 20 year vehicle. It take a minimum purchase of 2.5 US manufactured comparably classed vehicles to match the durability of the Honda Accord. The sad part is that this is not becasue the US cannot make an equal or even better valued vehicle to the Honda Accord, but becasue US auto makers choose, and deliberately design inferior vehicles to increase short term profit margins rather then a true concept vehicle based on company and national pride. We stopped doing that in 1970, now we make OK cars.

But don't take my word for it, just go to any junkyard near a large metropolitan area that segregates its junked car sections by national origin. The Japanese section is very small and has cars/truck that are more the 20 years old and more then 60% stripped of parts. The American section is colossal in size and looks like a new-used car lot with fresh looking paint and full of parts galore specifically engineered to fail at 50K-100K...Absolutely true

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:01 pm

Ok, I know I said I was looking for a second scooter for guest and I diden't want to spend allot and asked your thoughts on the cornucopia of CPC-Chinese brands the cost 1/4 the price of the Buddy or appropriately named "genuine scooter". Man whoever came up with that company name really had vision when it came to a marketing name brand and followed though on the product, at least for now.

So I gave in and bought a $775 yellow colored scooter. Whoever can guess the name brand and size I will ship my old/new Buddy grab-bar, notebook, T-shirt , and sticker FREE.

Hints: Its yellow, its between 50 and 125cc, its a 4-stroke, super retro cool looking and gets 100 MPG. Please ask and questions for more hints before I show the photo's Common ask me!

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat May 14, 2011 12:02 am

A Benelli Pepe(50cc 2t) can be found real cheap. 1000 and its a great scoot. Its a fast 50cc. I love my 150 now, but Ill always take ole Lucy out sometimes.

Just google "Benelli Pepe"

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sat May 14, 2011 12:16 am

OK I couldn't wait and was up early this morning to grab the scooter that posted on Craiglist last night at 10pm. Picked it up at 8am 35 miles away for $775. Its like it came out of a time capsule.
I give you the 1967 Honda CT90 Trail 8 speed

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat May 14, 2011 12:31 am

CWO4GUNNER wrote:OK I couldn't wait and was up early this morning to grab the scooter that posted on Craiglist last night at 10pm. Picked it up at 8am 35 miles away for $775. Its like it came out of a time capsule.
I give you the 1967 Honda CT90 Trail 8 speed

I would have given 1000 if I had the chance...that is such a great scoot....GREAT BUY. Let me know what the power and top end speed is!

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sat May 14, 2011 12:57 am

My first bike was a 1970 CT-90!! That would make a terrific guest scoot.

Gotta love that auto-clutch. Top speed around 40, or 45 with a tailwind.

Mine did not have the left-hand rear brake lever.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sat May 14, 2011 4:01 am

I haven't tested to speed but it really seems to go-fast-quick with the 4 high gears and the centrifugal clutch and climbs like its a little mule. Oh by the way its a 1965 not 67 my mistake. I posted on another thread "Companion ride for my Buddy 150 Pamplona" the statistics. But I did not include weight 198 pounds light becasue its all sheet metal box welded. My guest will be riding my Buddy to make raiding less complicated as the CT90 requires shifting and working the throttle between gears, also the brakes are touchy strong. Also not as smooth, hit the throttle and it engages now no waiting but use the wrong gear and and your hunting for the right one. The gear set is 1st gear up and 3 gears down to high. Its a Choo-Choo scoot. Man driving home older people (my age) were rolling down there windows asking me where I got that scooter, even young people at the drive-thru In & out Burger were telling me who makes that new model scooter, I told them Honda lol.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sat May 14, 2011 3:50 pm

Mine shifted 4-down, and used the back pedal to get back to neutral.

I also now notice that you have the early dual rear sprockets. With the chain extension on, that thing'll climb like a mountain goat. At about 5mph, but....

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:22 pm

Very cool

My first bike was a 65 CT-60, they're fun little bikes

Modern Buddy

Whats Up Chinese 50cc-150cc buddy clone scoots for $500-$700

Whats Up Chinese 50cc-150cc buddy clone scoots for $500-$700

Hammerhead LaVita

Re: Hammerhead LaVita

Re: Hammerhead LaVita

Benelli Pepe m50/used to be Andretti