really bummed about my blackjack...

bigdaddybud · Post by **bigdaddybud** » Sat May 28, 2011 3:24 am

so last week i took my brand new black jack to work for the first time...and she died on me about 12 mi. in to my ride..i posted earlier about this..my question this time is about the shop..my local authorized genuine repair place has now had my scooter in their shop for longer than i have had the bike in my possession...its been about 7 days now..i really am starting to wonder about if anyone there knows how to fix/or troubleshoot scooters..at first they thought it was vapor lock (i stated it didnt seem like vapor lock)so we waited 4 days for a new vented gas cap? to no avail..now it is memorial day weekend i bought this thing 2 weeks ago hoping to have it on the road in time for the memorial day weekend...and it has brought me nothing but trouble...the problem i think is the lack of knowledge in my local shop..when i asked when it might at least get troubleshot..they said their mechanic was off for the one day a week he is in the store for the memorial day weekend...the next closest authorized repair shop is 50 mi. from my house...so i feel like im stuck...any ideas i dont want to be a jerk...but i would really like to ride my scooter sometime soon...

Hellvis · Post by **Hellvis** » Sat May 28, 2011 3:47 am

I understand your frustration but it looks like you have to build a relationship with a different shop if you are not happy. From what you are saying I don't understand how your bike was down for 4 days just to wait for a gas cap to arrive. The shop could've drilled the holes for you or at least cleaned out the system and let you come back in to put the new cap on. Usuallly one only has to remove the cap to vent it in a case of vapor lock.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:13 am

Them having you wait for some gas cap to be shipped shows that they likely have no idea what they're doing.

I've had vapor lock, multiple times. All it takes is to open the gas cap to fix it. Though, sometimes, it may happen a few times in a row before the engine will cough everything out.

To this day, I still have not bothered o get a drilled cap. I just try to remember to pop the gas cap off and on before I go for a ride.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:22 am

ed85379 wrote:Them having you wait for some gas cap to be shipped shows that they likely have no idea what they're doing.

BINGO!

Post by **ericalm** » Sat May 28, 2011 6:50 am

Wow. All the symptoms are the same as vapor lock. This is ridiculously easy to deal with. If it's not vapor lock, this is a surefire way to find out so other possible causes can be examined.

Is this dealer a fairly new Buddy shop? They may be a bit timid about drilling it themselves for whatever reason.

Do you own a drill? Have a friend who does?

So easy!

You could also call Scooterworks (1-888-968-3772) or Motorsport (619.280.1718) and ask if they have a vented cap they can ship ASAP.

If I were you, I'd go get the scoot and drill the cap myself. The vented cap is coming in case you screw it up, but you won't! Alternately, if you don't want to drill it for some reason, just leave 2" in the neck when you next fill up the tank and see if the stalls still happen.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat May 28, 2011 1:12 pm

Man that sucks. Ive had 0 problems with my St Tropez. Dont let it sour you on the scooter experience. Just find another shop.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Sat May 28, 2011 1:54 pm

ed85379 wrote:Them having you wait for some gas cap to be shipped shows that they likely have no idea what they're doing.

I've had vapor lock, multiple times. All it takes is to open the gas cap to fix it. Though, sometimes, it may happen a few times in a row before the engine will cough everything out.

To this day, I still have not bothered o get a drilled cap. I just try to remember to pop the gas cap off and on before I go for a ride.

I am pretty sure mine was bad gasoline vs vapor lock but I do pop off my gas cap before I ride. Just in case. I never bothered to drill the gas cap either

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sat May 28, 2011 2:33 pm

I've had problems recently with my shop taking longer than promised – and longer than it should take – to fix my scoot. The problem in this case is a combination of being swamped (that time of year) and the person who makes the promises apparently not talking to the person doing the work.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat May 28, 2011 2:37 pm

TVB wrote:I've had problems recently with my shop taking longer than promised – and longer than it should take – to fix my scoot. The problem in this case is a combination of being swamped (that time of year) and the person who makes the promises apparently not talking to the person doing the work.

The right hand speaking for the left hand. Thats still unproffesional. My dealer has had very quick turnaround. He basically asked, "When do you want it?" My dealer also ONLY sells scooters.

Ressikan · Post by **Ressikan** » Sat May 28, 2011 2:41 pm

So drilling two holes, as shown, in the gas cap prevents vapor lock? Forever? Is it really that simple? I've had my bike only since Tuesday and ridden every day since with no problems at all, well, except for the fact that I sometimes forget to grab the brake lever before hitting the ignition button

DOH!

Post by **jrsjr** » Sat May 28, 2011 2:43 pm

ericalm wrote: If I were you, I'd go get the scoot and drill the cap myself. The vented cap is coming in case you screw it up, but you won't! Alternately, if you don't want to drill it for some reason, just leave 2" in the neck when you next fill up the tank and see if the stalls still happen.

Totally agree. If you don't have a drill and a 1/16th bit, ride it to a shop, even a lawnmower repair place, show them the photo above, and get them to shoot a couple holes in that cap so you can ride the long weekend. Seriously!

Post by **ericalm** » Sat May 28, 2011 2:53 pm

Ressikan wrote:So drilling two holes, as shown, in the gas cap prevents vapor lock? Forever? Is it really that simple? I've had my bike only since Tuesday and ridden every day since with no problems at all, well, except for the fact that I sometimes forget to grab the brake lever before hitting the ignition button DOH!

Well… In almost all instances, yes. It's possible for it to still happen, but the garden variety vapor lock that most people experience will almost always be prevented by venting.

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Sat May 28, 2011 2:57 pm

Motorsport, knowing that my bike is my only mode of transportation, always gets mine done same day. They're amazing. And I've taken it in for a similar stalling issue, and it has taken them less than an hour to fix it.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat May 28, 2011 3:20 pm

Plisar wrote:Motorsport, knowing that my bike is my only mode of transportation, always gets mine done same day. They're amazing. And I've taken it in for a similar stalling issue, and it has taken them less than an hour to fix it.

Only mode of transportation? I thought I was the only one! I did get caught in a monsoon yesterday coming home, but it wasnt all that bad. I have bought lots of weather gear for the winter, so unless its REAL icy, Im going to work. Otherwise, its call-in time.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sat May 28, 2011 3:25 pm

Send a barrage of broadside salvo's to Genuine directly. Do not hold back. Tell them that you bought into their "superior scooter" philosophy. Tell them that you are NOT Feelin' The Love.....

There are other remedies, like demanding a full refund and reporting them to the BBB...

There is a time to be nice and a time to get mean...

You have been wronged by Genuine. I'm sure they would see the light from what I've heard. Genuine needs to know how their dealer base is doing...

I feel your pain, Good Luck!!

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat May 28, 2011 3:45 pm

SteveK wrote:Send a barrage of broadside salvo's to Genuine directly. Do not hold back. Tell them that you bought into their "superior scooter" philosophy. Tell them that you are NOT Feelin' The Love.....

There are other remedies, like demanding a full refund and reporting them to the BBB...

There is a time to be nice and a time to get mean... You have been wronged by Genuine. I'm sure they would see the light from what I've heard. Genuine needs to know how their dealer base is doing...

I feel your pain, Good Luck!!

It doesn't sound like they've even contacted Genuine yet so I don't know how Genuine has wronged them. I agree that the issue needs to be addressed but it sounds like a dealer issue not a Genuine Scooters issue. If Genuine refused to honor their warranty or if the company was giving them the run around then I could see your point but that's just not the case. I do agree that Genuine needs to hear about the OPs poor experience with their dealer but until they actually contact the company this really can't be put on them.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat May 28, 2011 3:46 pm

SteveK wrote:Send a barrage of broadside salvo's to Genuine directly. Do not hold back. Tell them that you bought into their "superior scooter" philosophy. Tell them that you are NOT Feelin' The Love.....

There are other remedies, like demanding a full refund and reporting them to the BBB...

There is a time to be nice and a time to get mean... You have been wronged by Genuine. I'm sure they would see the light from what I've heard. Genuine needs to know how their dealer base is doing...

I feel your pain, Good Luck!!

When is the time to overreact, point fingers willy nilly and take things to some unnecessary extreme? That kind of behavior will rarely get you what you want or need when more direct, less melodramatic actions will suffice.

Dealers are responsible for handling customer service and warranty issues. Genuine backs the warranties and products via the dealers.

It would be worth sending Genuine a note telling them of your experience. The rest is a lot of effort (on the owner's part) that will yield little results when there's a simple solution to the whole thing. The problem is easily fixed. If your dealer can't do it, you—or just about anyone with a drill—can.

I'll also note—though I won't say that's the case here—that on the forum, we usually only get one side of a customer problem. I know of many instances in which an owner had issues, everyone rallied behind them and got all incensed, but circumstances were not as described.

At the same time, there have also been instances where dealers haven't been upfront about their communications with Genuine, when parts were ordered, etc.

Just some things for people to keep in mind before they start ranting or advocating "a barrage of salvos."

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:01 pm

bigdaddybud wrote:at first they thought it was vapor lock (i stated it didnt seem like vapor lock)so we waited 4 days for a new vented gas cap? to no avail..now it is memorial day weekend i bought this thing 2 weeks ago hoping to have it on the road in time for the memorial day weekend...and it has brought me nothing but trouble...the problem i think is the lack of knowledge in my local shop..when i asked when it might at least get troubleshot..they said their mechanic was off for the one day a week he is in the store for the memorial day weekend...

You all might have missed this part?

This selection of a dealer was made by Genuine. This mechanical flaw was produced by Genuine. The troubleshooting proceedures were produced by Genuine. The training was produced by Genuine.

There are things called the lemon laws. They are in place to protect consumers from this BS.

If you sell me a new anything and it fails in 12 miles, and you tell me to wait because you can't figure it out, and you do not offer me a new one...let me tell ya'.... I'm coming for you with both barrels smoking.

Man-up and make them man-up. Life's too short for this crap... Excercise your rights and don't cower.....sheesh.

Let me ask you a question here. Do you feel the dealer has earned your business now?...I would think not. So get in the cage and drive that 50 miles and see the other dealer. Part of any purchase is the service and not simply the product...

Of all the dealers we could have bought from we narrowed it down to two. Why? Wasn't simply the product as there are many other similar products out there. It was because of the full-time mechanic on staff that we had the oppotunity so interact with before the sale. The full shop services that were provided. The knowledgeable sales staff that tried no BS Kung-Fu on us. and the product offerings.

We bought one 90+ miles away and two 50+ miles away for these very reasons. There are a few that were much closer too...

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:08 pm

I would point out that this Blackjack was manufactured no less than two years ago, and has been waiting for your purchase with who-knows-what in the tank and carb.

My Italia did almost the exact same thing - purchased with zero miles this past January and quit at 20 miles. In my case the carb jets got gunked up, likely due to the fresh gas I added on day zero loosening up some crud in the tank that made its way to the jets and no farther.

Tank vacuum had nothing to do with it, but my dealer stuck a vented cap on as a 'preventive' fix under warranty.

It would behoove the shop guys to take five minutes and pull the jets for a look.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:17 pm

SteveK wrote:There is a time to be nice and a time to get mean... You have been wronged by Genuine. I'm sure they would see the light from what I've heard. Genuine needs to know how their dealer base is doing...

Doesn't sound to me like the OP has benn "wronged" by Genuine. Sounds to me like he is having trouble with an inexperienced or flaky dealer. Yes, Genuine could have a more consistent dealer network, but so could every other scooter manufacturer on the planet. I have heard some folks suggest that you might pick the scooter that you buy (among the solid brands) based on who has a good dealer near you. There is some sense to that idea. Many riders improve their own wrenching skills out of desperation.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:32 pm

Dooglas wrote:
SteveK wrote:There is a time to be nice and a time to get mean... You have been wronged by Genuine. I'm sure they would see the light from what I've heard. Genuine needs to know how their dealer base is doing...
Doesn't sound to me like the OP has benn "wronged" by Genuine. Sounds to me like he is having trouble with an inexperienced or flaky dealer. Yes, Genuine could have a more consistent dealer network, but so could every other scooter manufacturer on the planet. I have heard some folks suggest that you might pick the scooter that you buy (among the solid brands) based on who has a good dealer near you. There is some sense to that idea. Many riders improve their own wrenching skills out of desperation.

Yes but they are getting nowhere quickly too.

Genuine needs to know this, and feel this. It is wrong to assume that Genuine would like this to be an on going saga but there are hard earned ducats on the line here. So where is the love? Genuine could intervene here....

Just my honest opinion folks. I've been here before too....

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:40 pm

PeteH wrote:Tank vacuum had nothing to do with it, but my dealer stuck a vented cap on as a 'preventive' fix under warranty.

It would behoove the shop guys to take five minutes and pull the jets for a look.

Now that's a dealer I would invest in...IMO of course.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat May 28, 2011 4:41 pm

I agree that Genuine could intervene but only if they are made aware that there is a situation to intervene in.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat May 28, 2011 8:18 pm

I'd like to interject a bit into this tirade over this vented gas cap thing. Like it or not, all current motor vehicles sold in the U.S. have to meet certain EPA laws and one of these laws is that no gas vapors can be vented directly into the atmosphere. Therefore, it would be illegal for Genuine Scooter to have vented-to-air gas caps installed. Likewise, it would not be legal for them to tell their dealers to drill vent holes in the gas caps. What dealers do on their own is an entirely different matter.
Theoretically, if the emissions control system for the gas tank is working correctly, it should be vented through a charcoal canister which is also attached to the air filter box. Maybe that's where the problems some people are experiencing is coming from. It could be a plugged-up emissions line or a charcoal canister with too much excess fuel in it due to overfilling the gas tank. This could also be the cause for raw gas being found in some people's air filter box. I'm just saying...

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sat May 28, 2011 9:07 pm

Well I know this fall on 99% deaf ears but out of past frustration and necessity (the mother of all knowledge), I started out leaning the BASICS of hand-tool use, the BASICS of the combustion engine, and BASIC engine trouble shooting and repair. If you would just take the time to lean the BASICS, you'd save yourself so much hassle and save an enormous amount of money every year. BASIC DIY skills are where its at becasue labor is becoming so expensive now. Just on the BASICS vehicle and home repair I probubly save myself $2000 to $5000 a year. With confidence I could easily find out what that scooters problem is in 30 minutes and either have it repaired or know what part is needed.

Without having to guess every member here has the brain and ability to lean the BASICs of hand-tools, trouble shooting and repair for both home and vehicle with the ability to correct 70% of all problems themselves. The dealers and mechanics make 90% of there bread and butter off ignorance of basic easy to repair issues, the less you know the more money they can make on ordering the thingamajig or gizmo that needs to be re-built or special ordered. meanwhile you vehicle sits in the shop with the clock running $$.

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Sat May 28, 2011 9:19 pm

Besides the time issue, why would I want to DIY on vehicle covered under warranty?

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Sat May 28, 2011 10:13 pm

One week is not very long, when most shops are overrun with demands in the Spring. I know you are frustrated because you haven't had the bike for long, but to say that it has been nothing but frustration seems a little extreme considering how short a time you have had it. Give the shop some time to prove themselves. If they don't sort out the problem for you or are rude about it then you have reason to be upset, but is seems more like a timing issue than anything. You wanted your bike back for the holiday weekend, and that didn't work out as you had hoped. After all, if they waited 4 days for a vented gas cap (trying to fix with a new part rather than modifying and forever changing the original) then they have only really had 3 days to troubleshoot (again at the absolute height of their season).

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sat May 28, 2011 10:30 pm

My earlier post was not intended to be personalized, it is a big picture concept intended to spark an "I get it moment" and a desired path to social independence for those that can take it. Even though everyone is capable not everyone willing and that's OK because it employs others. Even I have a bunch ignorance that employ others to do things Im not willing to learn like carpet installation, but I have been considering learning tile installation once my carpet wears out this time around.

Chilly · Post by **Chilly** » Sat May 28, 2011 10:51 pm

30 seconds with a dremel/drill, problem solved. I used that exact picture(that ericalm posted), but used a much smaller bit, problem solved. Seems like a lot of fuss for such a simple fix.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat May 28, 2011 11:05 pm

SteveK wrote:
bigdaddybud wrote:at first they thought it was vapor lock (i stated it didnt seem like vapor lock)so we waited 4 days for a new vented gas cap? to no avail..

You all might have missed this part?

This reads to me that the vented gas cap has not arrived, not that it did arrive and had no effect.

If you're going to invoke lemon laws, you should know what state the OP lives in and how the laws work there. In some, shops have up to 90 days to fix the issue or replace the vehicle. I don't think there are any in which the law kicks in after a week but if anyone knows different, chime in.

Kicking and screaming and raising a ruckus are all useful tools when used in the right issues for the right problems. In this case, I'm not sure it's going to do much to help solve the problem.

babblefish wrote:I'd like to interject a bit into this tirade over this vented gas cap thing. Like it or not, all current motor vehicles sold in the U.S. have to meet certain EPA laws and one of these laws is that no gas vapors can be vented directly into the atmosphere. Therefore, it would be illegal for Genuine Scooter to have vented-to-air gas caps installed. Likewise, it would not be legal for them to tell their dealers to drill vent holes in the gas caps.

Nope, this is only the case in California. The evap system which is at the heart of the issue is SOLELY required by the state of CA. The problem is that the state imposes design requirements on these systems that are problematic when many new scooters are outfitted with them—retrofitted, really. The very first tech post on ModernVespa was how to disconnect the evap system. It causes problems for a lot of models.

Disconnecting the evap system or drilling the cap is perfectly legal in 49 states.

Given the fuel economy and low emissions of a 4T Buddy 150, I seriously don't think the environment notices when you do this.

You're right about one thing: Not overfilling the tank will also usually prevent this. I think many people are like me and just love to fill to the very brim. This is a recipe for vapor lock with any scooter, not just a Buddy. I have done it to a Vespa and a Stella after filling up.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sat May 28, 2011 11:13 pm

The last amount I paid the dealer was $425 in repairs. I was 19yrs old. Now I'm 22 and can rebuild the whole buddy motor. It takes time, but you will learn it all and won't have to rely on the dealer for easy fixes.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun May 29, 2011 12:05 am

Yup Eric is right.

1) Illinois has a 30 day lemon law requirement. No matter though, the lemon law does not apply to scooters unless they are motorcycles or RV's.
2) No business is required to issue you a refund or return in Illinois either.

You are SOL on this one unless you

1) Throw yourself at the mercy of (read kiss the butt of) this so-called dealer.
2) Get Genuine involved directly.
3) Get the BBB involved directly.

More reason to contact Genuine IMO... A one day a week mechanic is unheard of for a reputable new vehicle dealer. Do you think he is gonna fix your scooter next Monday or prep all the one's sold in the last two weeks?

Illinois law stinks for this. Mass law is far different. You certainly should "feel like you are stuck".

Buy out of state next time or from another dealer atleast...

There is one provision for if you used a credit card but that is a long dispute.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sun May 29, 2011 12:08 am

The way I read this is that the dealer/owner confirmed that the scooter runs fantastic without the gas cap and somehow came up with choice (C) leave the scooter at the dealer and pine away at home until another OEM gas cap that might work arrives. Decided against choices (A) take the Scooter home and drill the cap, (B) Dealer (switches-out) provides loaner cap from inventory that works and orders another takes scooter home.

If its already been confirmed that your scooter runs fine without the cap, go get your scooter and wait for the new cap (or drill) and use a vented freezer bag and produce rubberband to seal the gas tank, and take a ride...

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun May 29, 2011 12:10 am

ericalm wrote:
SteveK wrote:
bigdaddybud wrote:at first they thought it was vapor lock (i stated it didnt seem like vapor lock)so we waited 4 days for a new vented gas cap? to no avail..

You all might have missed this part?

This reads to me that the vented gas cap has not arrived, not that it did arrive and had no effect.

This whole deal is BS. How many other bikes are sitting right there with new caps, Emission control components, Carbs and the like.

This dealer is dragging his bum....and Genuine needs to know this.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun May 29, 2011 12:53 am

ericalm wrote:
babblefish wrote:I'd like to interject a bit into this tirade over this vented gas cap thing. Like it or not, all current motor vehicles sold in the U.S. have to meet certain EPA laws and one of these laws is that no gas vapors can be vented directly into the atmosphere. Therefore, it would be illegal for Genuine Scooter to have vented-to-air gas caps installed. Likewise, it would not be legal for them to tell their dealers to drill vent holes in the gas caps.
Nope, this is only the case in California. The evap system which is at the heart of the issue is SOLELY required by the state of CA. The problem is that the state imposes design requirements on these systems that are problematic when many new scooters are outfitted with them—retrofitted, really. The very first tech post on ModernVespa was how to disconnect the evap system. It causes problems for a lot of models.

Disconnecting the evap system or drilling the cap is perfectly legal in 49 states.

Given the fuel economy and low emissions of a 4T Buddy 150, I seriously don't think the environment notices when you do this.

You're right about one thing: Not overfilling the tank will also usually prevent this. I think many people are like me and just love to fill to the very brim. This is a recipe for vapor lock with any scooter, not just a Buddy. I have done it to a Vespa and a Stella after filling up.

Thanks for clearing that up. I should have known that California has to be different from everyone else...
But, the point is that all of the Genuine scooters coming into the U.S. are made to meet California's over zealous emissions laws so everyone gets to enjoy the consequences, good or bad. Unless there are two different versions imported - one for California and one for the other 49 states?...

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun May 29, 2011 1:13 am

Not to hijack your thread but. Wife and I just went out for an evening cruise. Got 2 miles and her Buddy 50 scoot bogged down and stalled. 46 miles.

Did not start. We waited a few and still did not start. She got on my scoot and went back home. I started pushing it. After 10 minutes it started and ran just enough to get me home (ran great!) then stalled. Did not restart. Waited ten minutes and it fired up then stalled....

Absolutely no vapor lock....

So now I get to see just how good my decision was to go with this dealer in Boston.

Feeling the pain here in Mass.....

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Sun May 29, 2011 1:21 am

SteveK wrote:Not to hijack your thread but. Wife and I just went out for an evening cruise. Got 2 miles and her Buddy 50 scoot bogged down and stalled. 46 miles.

Did not start. We waited a few and still did not start. She got on my scoot and went back home. I started pushing it. After 10 minutes it started and ran just enough to get me home (ran great!) then stalled. Did not restart. Waited ten minutes and it fired up then stalled....

Absolutely no vapor lock....

So now I get to see just how good my decision was to go with this dealer in Boston.

Feeling the pain here in Mass.....

Possibly bad gas? These things seem to be pretty temperamental.

I haven't needed anything repaired yet from Scooters Go Green, but I've dealt with them plenty (Buying two scooters from them...), and they're quick with an oil change. Never even need an appointment (though I always call first to make sure they're not too busy). Steve and Steve are good guys.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun May 29, 2011 1:29 am

Ed, we had filled up last night and had driven it the last two nights briefly. It drove just fine. We both filled-up last night with the same gas and Mnes running great.

I have full confidence in Go Green. It's just too weird that this thread lead to her demise...

Too freaky.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun May 29, 2011 3:00 am

Plisar wrote:Besides the time issue, why would I want to DIY on vehicle covered under warranty?

Most work on your scooter will be routine servicing and adjustments. Those aren't warranty issues anyway. Doing some of those things yourself is a good way to start getting familiar with your scooter.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Sun May 29, 2011 3:28 am

Dooglas wrote:
Plisar wrote:Besides the time issue, why would I want to DIY on vehicle covered under warranty?
Most work on your scooter will be routine servicing and adjustments. Those aren't warranty issues anyway. Doing some of those things yourself is a good way to start getting familiar with your scooter.

It is also a good way of voiding your warranty if you screw something up.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sun May 29, 2011 3:52 am

babblefish wrote:
ericalm wrote:
babblefish wrote:I'd like to interject a bit into this tirade over this vented gas cap thing. Like it or not, all current motor vehicles sold in the U.S. have to meet certain EPA laws and one of these laws is that no gas vapors can be vented directly into the atmosphere. Therefore, it would be illegal for Genuine Scooter to have vented-to-air gas caps installed. Likewise, it would not be legal for them to tell their dealers to drill vent holes in the gas caps.
Nope, this is only the case in California. The evap system which is at the heart of the issue is SOLELY required by the state of CA. The problem is that the state imposes design requirements on these systems that are problematic when many new scooters are outfitted with them—retrofitted, really. The very first tech post on ModernVespa was how to disconnect the evap system. It causes problems for a lot of models.
Disconnecting the evap system or drilling the cap is perfectly legal in 49 states.
Given the fuel economy and low emissions of a 4T Buddy 150, I seriously don't think the environment notices when you do this.
Thanks for clearing that up. I should have known that California has to be different from everyone else...

Concur and one of many reason I left Cali after being a resident for 47 years. Now live just inside the border of AZ on the South bend Colorado River. We all have to be careful whenever we venture onto Cali side with our AZ street legal dirt bikes and quads as no one wants to get their bike impounded. The CHP patrols Needles CA and Lake Havasu CA looking for those who venture past the border.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun May 29, 2011 4:41 am

SteveK wrote:Ed, we had filled up last night and had driven it the last two nights briefly. It drove just fine. We both filled-up last night with the same gas and Mnes running great.

I have full confidence in Go Green. It's just too weird that this thread lead to her demise... Too freaky.

If you overfill the tank then you will flood the little black charcoal canister attached to the exhaust. I just removed the damn thing altogether and now I don't have to worry about it. Damn California and their CARB BS

Post by **ericalm** » Sun May 29, 2011 4:46 am

babblefish wrote:
ericalm wrote:
babblefish wrote:I'd like to interject a bit into this tirade over this vented gas cap thing. Like it or not, all current motor vehicles sold in the U.S. have to meet certain EPA laws and one of these laws is that no gas vapors can be vented directly into the atmosphere. Therefore, it would be illegal for Genuine Scooter to have vented-to-air gas caps installed. Likewise, it would not be legal for them to tell their dealers to drill vent holes in the gas caps.
Nope, this is only the case in California. The evap system which is at the heart of the issue is SOLELY required by the state of CA. The problem is that the state imposes design requirements on these systems that are problematic when many new scooters are outfitted with them—retrofitted, really. The very first tech post on ModernVespa was how to disconnect the evap system. It causes problems for a lot of models.

Disconnecting the evap system or drilling the cap is perfectly legal in 49 states.

Given the fuel economy and low emissions of a 4T Buddy 150, I seriously don't think the environment notices when you do this.

You're right about one thing: Not overfilling the tank will also usually prevent this. I think many people are like me and just love to fill to the very brim. This is a recipe for vapor lock with any scooter, not just a Buddy. I have done it to a Vespa and a Stella after filling up.
Thanks for clearing that up. I should have known that California has to be different from everyone else...
But, the point is that all of the Genuine scooters coming into the U.S. are made to meet California's over zealous emissions laws so everyone gets to enjoy the consequences, good or bad. Unless there are two different versions imported - one for California and one for the other 49 states?...

No, there's just one version. Producing two would cost too much. As is, there are adjustments to the various BuBu iterations to meet international regulations.

While we all have to suffer the consequences, there's no reason for those in the other 49 to simply remove the problem.

Don't get me wrong, I think the law is well-intentioned and other regulations have immensely helped to clean up the state's air. This particular regulation is just very poorly implemented and in the instance of many vehicles doesn't do much with regards to pollution.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun May 29, 2011 5:34 am

jasondavis48108 wrote:
SteveK wrote:Ed, we had filled up last night and had driven it the last two nights briefly. It drove just fine. We both filled-up last night with the same gas and Mnes running great.

I have full confidence in Go Green. It's just too weird that this thread lead to her demise... Too freaky.
If you overfill the tank then you will flood the little black charcoal canister attached to the exhaust. I just removed the damn thing altogether and now I don't have to worry about it. Damn California and their CARB BS

Cool Jason, since it's Memorial Day weekend I'll have a peek at that. Go Green won't be in service till Tuesday and We don't want to go without riding.

Thanks!!

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sun May 29, 2011 3:04 pm

ericalm wrote:
SteveK wrote:Send a barrage of broadside salvo's to Genuine directly. Do not hold back. Tell them that you bought into their "superior scooter" philosophy. Tell them that you are NOT Feelin' The Love.....

There are other remedies, like demanding a full refund and reporting them to the BBB...

There is a time to be nice and a time to get mean... You have been wronged by Genuine. I'm sure they would see the light from what I've heard. Genuine needs to know how their dealer base is doing...

I feel your pain, Good Luck!!

When is the time to overreact, point fingers willy nilly and take things to some unnecessary extreme? That kind of behavior will rarely get you what you want or need when more direct, less melodramatic actions will suffice.

Dealers are responsible for handling customer service and warranty issues. Genuine backs the warranties and products via the dealers.

It would be worth sending Genuine a note telling them of your experience. The rest is a lot of effort (on the owner's part) that will yield little results when there's a simple solution to the whole thing. The problem is easily fixed. If your dealer can't do it, you—or just about anyone with a drill—can.

I'll also note—though I won't say that's the case here—that on the forum, we usually only get one side of a customer problem. I know of many instances in which an owner had issues, everyone rallied behind them and got all incensed, but circumstances were not as described.

At the same time, there have also been instances where dealers haven't been upfront about their communications with Genuine, when parts were ordered, etc.

Just some things for people to keep in mind before they start ranting or advocating "a barrage of salvos."

Eric=Working for the man.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun May 29, 2011 3:32 pm

Raiderfn31 wrote:Eric=Working for the man.

If I was really working for the man, I'd just delete posts like that instead of openly disagreeing with them. It'd be really easy to craft a shiny, happy forum where no one is critical of the product or Genuine. I've no problem with that; I just disagree with that tact for this problem.

I'd also make more money than I do now. right? If working for the man doesn't pay a shitload, there's no point!

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun May 29, 2011 3:50 pm

This is just for the record, not that it is required.

I do hold the open exchange of info here to be top notch. I'm sure Raiderfn is kiddng here.

It has been determined that the OP does not have a vapor lock (suction/pressure) problem that any drill bit could fix. If not, then the dealer is playing games and hasn't even touched the scoot and does not intend to do anything for 8 more days atleast.

I think we can all agree that this is unacceptable behavior?

How would you like it if it was your primary source of transportation? Willy nilly?.....heh! I'm thinking nuclear option.... That dealer is lucky to be hiding in Illinois, here in MA we have a little thing called "Triple Damages" to fail to back a refund for defective goods...

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sun May 29, 2011 5:43 pm

OK, just re-read the OP's history with this scoot, and have had a chance to collect my thoughts a little better:

From May 8:

bigdaddybud wrote:went with the blackjack...got a really good deal on her too...2599.99
no warranty but only 40 mi. think i made the right choice...what do you guys think?

From May 13:

bigdaddybud wrote:i just bought my new blackjack from a place in milwaukee that was a genuine dealer but has given up the line and is now blowing out their genuine scooters.
got a very good deal on a brand new never been titled blackjack. they said they could no longer honor the manufacturer warranty since they were no longer a genuine dealer..my question is if i take my bike to an authorized genuine dealer..would it still have the manufacturer warranty? the salesguy said this to me when i asked why id didnt have the warranty..he said it would have the warranty they just couldnt honor it..but if i took it too an authorized place...it would honor the warranty...is this right?

So, it would appear that the servicing dealer is local (in Illinois) to the OP and that the scoot was purchased out-of-state (Milwaukee, Wisonsin) from a dealer who was dropping the Genuine product line. I wonder which state's "lemon law", if any, applies. (i.e., assuming there is a law, is it applicable to the originating dealer or to the manufacturer?).

Also, I wonder if the servicing dealer might be giving priority to customers who purchased from him.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sun May 29, 2011 7:52 pm

Raiderfn31 wrote: Eric=Working for the man.

Um..Don't think it right to label someone with an accusation, besides everything else it doesn't show good caracter. The OP or anyone of us have many choices and alternatives not to get into these stranded situations and we have talked about them. Anybody who doesn't want their scooter down and out for maintenance had better buy 2. Early on as a man I leaned that if I wanted to stay in wheels not only should I wrench on them but better to have 2 used sets of wheels so that 1 of the 2 could being wrenched on and I still had wheels.

We have the brains to get into these situations and get ourselves out, labeling and blaming is not the long term answer, I know becasue I have done it and sometimes slip and still do, it is worst path.

One good thing about all paths is we can always hop back on the right path anytime.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun May 29, 2011 8:01 pm

I'm pretty sure that quip from Raiderfn31 was just for fun. Sometimes the true intentions of the written word is missed due to the lack of tonal inflections. Or...I could be wrong and he was trying to be snide...

Modern Buddy

really bummed about my blackjack...

really bummed about my blackjack...

Re: really bummed about my blackjack...