How many have ridden with no crash?

[Bolbos]

As mentioned in my first post elsewhere, I'm trying to reconcile the whole safety aspect before making scooter purchase (after completing MS couse). This post is in response to the thread that asks riders to list their accidents. Not exactly the kind of thing that psyches you up before a potential purchase, but necessary reading just the same.

But rather than hear from all the accidents, I thought it worthwhile to try to find out if there is a significant readership here that has actually gone incident-free, and hopefully give a potential new rider some hope that a crash is not a fore-gone conclusion. I know that there is a grey area to answering since 'accident' is all emcompassing. But I'm mostly talking about traffic related incidents. After reading the crash horror stories (and mostly low speed ones at that), it would be nice to get an idea of what percentage of riders (from the readers of this forum) have been succesful in attempting to avoid 'conflict'.

I think it would be most telling if responders answered only one question:

1. Did you complete a MS course?

Thanks in advance...

[English]

I have been riding 33 years - virtually as my main form of transport - without a crash.

No, I have never taken an MSF course. I'm originally from England. Our test is much, much more comprehensive than the test in the US.

After having been riding for about twenty years, I underwent our advanced training (Institute of Advanced Motoring), which consisted of two years' training, and a two hour "pursuit" test with a class 'A' police motorcyclist following me on another bike.

Never say never, but training is key. It seems there is very little option for decent training in the US, but, take all you can, and it'll pay dividends.

[robby]

2+ years, ride year-round in New England weather, no accidents, did the MSF course. Did have one close call where I was a distracted idiot but I was still able to stop in time pretty easily.

[Skootz Kabootz]

The "Who's Crashed" thread is indeed a tough read. But I have to say, it is a very beneficial one. I learn from it every time. The sobering effect it has keeps ones scooting feet on the ground and head out of the clouds. It is so easy for one to get complacent and allow bad habits creep into your riding. For that reason I think it is also a good idea to constantly be reading something from David Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling" too. Helps keep your scooting head in the right place.

[TVB]

There is an old "who hasn't crashed?" thread on the same topic.

The closest thing I've done to a "crash" in the 10K miles on my scooter was when I slipped on some wet leaves going around a corner, and the scoot and I ended up on our side. I have not taken a safety course... but a few decades of prior bicycling experience (which did include some crashes) has probably helped.

[ericalm]

Ep_Scoot (who hasn't been on MB in 2 years!) compiled a bunch of stats from our Who's Crashed thread here:
topic5190.html

It's a very unscientific poll, but the results pretty much mimic most other surveys of crashes.

This was done 3 years ago so we have a lot more reports and even newer models and colors to add if we ever compile them again. We need a research intern!

[Raiderfn31]

I would answer that question but I feel I would be jinxing myself.

[Lotrat]

The first time I got on a motorcycle at 18 years of age, I took a corner on my buddy's bike a bit too fast and laid it down. I picked it up and kept going for a few more hours. I got a nasty road rash on my arm and leg. Geezz, I wasn't even wearing a helmet. I ran out and bought my own bike the next day. It's been 20+ years and haven't been down since. I never took any safety courses, but I should have. I can't believe how dumb I was back then. Once I moved to Cali I learned to deal with the helmet and now can't imagine riding without one. A scooter is an easier ride than a motorcycle. Less of a race and more of a cruise. You need to be as alert and aware of who can't see you in traffic, but the slower speeds allow you more reaction time when the boatillac is headed right for you. All things equal, I would say a more mature person is less likely to do something silly to cause a crash. There will always be distracted people on the roads. Its your job to find them and stay away while on 2 wheels. It doesn't matter who's fault it is, the guy on two wheels will always lose.

[jprestonian]

I would answer that question but I feel I would be jinxing myself. :wink:

Not into the supernatural, but... what he said. :)
.

[jasondavis48108]

I've taken the MSF course and haven't crashed yet. Note I am avoiding the jinx by avoiding saying that I have not crashed and instead just stating the fact that up to this point I have not crashed but do not want to tempt fate by being overly confident in the fact that I won't bite pavement today after writing this post.

[Raiderfn31]

I've taken the MSF course and haven't crashed yet. Note I am avoiding the jinx by avoiding saying that I have not crashed and instead just stating the fact that up to this point I have not crashed but do not want to tempt fate by being overly confident in the fact that I won't bite pavement today after writing this post.

[Alb brajn]

I haven't had an accident yet but then again I have only been riding for 3 months.

[chloefpuff]

I would answer that question but I feel I would be jinxing myself.

Not into the supernatural, but... what he said.
.

Ditto ditto

[SteMer]

I would answer that question but I feel I would be jinxing myself.

Not into the supernatural, but... what he said.
.

Ditto ditto

Ditto to the Ditto ditto

[TVB]

Ditto to the Ditto ditto

I'll buck this trend.
I am not any more likely to crash my scooter tomorrow or in the next week than on any other day in the past 2+ years. It's Science! In fact, I am much less likely to have one than I was two years ago. So there.

[pdxrita]

I now have two years and almost 6k miles under my scooter belt, so far without a traffic related spill. I do have two low speed drops to confess, one on a Honda Rebel motorcycle and one on the scooter. The Rebel was while practicing in a parking lot - turned the handlebars at low speed. Newbie mistake. The Scooter - I arrived home in our driveway and began to execute my normal maneuver to turn around and found that my partner had placed the garbage cans in my path, which caused me to brake with the wheel turned = bad. Anyhow, both were very near a standstill when I dropped, so I don't consider those crashes. I took the MSF years ago when I bought the Honda Rebel. It was certainly a good way for a brand new rider to start. In my every day riding, I keep my distance from cars, I never ride through an intersection without looking both ways, and I generally use the zen sense I've developed around how other cars are going to behave. It's made me a better cage driver too. All of this, of course, is backed up by a healthy dose of luck. I never let myself believe that it won't happen to me.

[peabody99]

I hate the thought of jinxing myself, but for the sake of offering a balanced perspective to a new rider I will put myself out there. So far I have not had any accidents/drops. I have ridden over 20,000 on my scoots since 2006 in all kinds of weather and road conditions. I have taken the basic and experienced rider classes and highly recommend them. I do avoid night riding for a few reasons. I have very poor night vision so I worry about seeing road problems. Second, people can't see us as well either and quite, frankly there are a lot of people under the influence of alcohol. I still do drive at night of course, but not often, and only in better lit areas.

I was a very cautious new rider, and remain very defensive. In reading the who has crashed thread many (most?) of those accidents are preventable where the rider sees it that way or not. This is not to say if I have an accident it won't be my fault, I just want to do the best I can to minimize rider errors.

[jmazza]

I know the anxiety you have right now. It was the same thing that happened to me because I read many many threads here before purchasing my scooter. That's a very good thing though because you have a much more realistic sense of the dangers of riding than someone who buys on an impulse and finds himself in the middle of scary traffic.

So I'll echo others in saying that if you take it easy, ride within your limits, take the MSF, read Proficient Motorcycling and ride aware, you'll drastically reduce your chances of an accident.

As for me, I've been riding for 3 1/2 years and have 10k miles without any kind of accident. I have had several close calls- I ride in pretty difficult and fast traffic most days- but so far have been able to avoid a wreck mostly due to riding smart (all the things above except I haven't taken the MSF). I'll also add that at least half of my close calls were my own fault. My worst one was early on in my riding I tried to turn right on red and beat the traffic that had just gotten a green light. Found myself inches from a car that had the right of way. Dumb move by me. Others have been where I had a feeling a car was about to make a dumb move and I didn't slow down and anticipate it and ended up with a much closer call than had I ridden defensively.

I started a thread called I rode to work...I rode home...nothing happened for this very same reason. It hasn't been added to in a while but it highlights that we just don't post about the non-eventful riding experiences the way we post about the bad ones.

Having a crash is NOT a foregone conclusion. It's possible and even likely, yes. But you can do a lot to reduce your risk. This is proven.

Good luck!

[Bolbos]

Appreciated Jmazza (and others).....thanks much.

[squasher5]

Hey buddy riders,

My wife and I have been riding for two years...with no accidents. We did not take a course as it was too far away in another city in order to take it. We are both careful drivers.....but we did a lot of reading before buying our buddy 50.

I am 71 yrs of age.....so i know that having an accident for me would be a calamity....tough to bounce back. But here is my belief.....if you think you might have an accident, then you should not buy a scooter. I am a defensive driver, and when I get on the scooter having an accident is not on my mind at all....otherwise I would not get on.

This is similar to flying....I do a lot of that. If you believe your plane is going to crash, then you should not get on it.

Good Luck with your decision.

[mg1342mg]

A caveat: you must be a very defensive driver on a scooter. I managed to go 19 years riding in Germany, Britain, and the US before I was finally knocked off my ride. I've had quite a few more vehicle accidents, so evidence supports that I am oddly safer on my bike. However, I've dodged far more bullets riding than driving.

I have had the MSF course twice.

[Bolbos]

Hey buddy riders,

My wife and I have been riding for two years...with no accidents. We did not take a course as it was too far away in another city in order to take it. We are both careful drivers.....but we did a lot of reading before buying our buddy 50.

I am 71 yrs of age.....so i know that having an accident for me would be a calamity....tough to bounce back. But here is my belief.....if you think you might have an accident, then you should not buy a scooter. I am a defensive driver, and when I get on the scooter having an accident is not on my mind at all....otherwise I would not get on.

This is similar to flying....I do a lot of that. If you believe your plane is going to crash, then you should not get on it.

Good Luck with your decision.

Squasher...

Thanks for the reply, however...I'm going to disagree with you. To scooter or not based mostly on whether or not you 'think' you might crash, rather than educating yourself on the risks and - equally important - pursuing (and completing) the process of seeing if it's right for you....seems bad advice. I mean...it works for you because that's your temperament, but I don't know that I'd recommend it to others.

It's not a black and white thing and just having the right attitude has no bearing on whether or not someone else will ruin your day. I understand your position - I'm out here riding and I'm going to just drive safe but not ruin the experience by worring about what might happen'. But many folks have to reconcile and weigh the consequences before getting there. Guessing at what you can stomach fun-wise and risk-wise rather than being as informed as possible means missed opportunities or potentially harmful results. Scootering is not just a 'just do it or don't just do it' proposition. Or at least it shouldn't be.

Even an informed decision doesn't guarantee that one won't crash or even that taking a pass on scootering will amount to nothing more than missed cherished life experiences. But the process and journey of finding out if something is right for you (informed decision), has merit, and often, surprises. Challenging and overcoming your fears, exploring whims, or just seeing if you're up to the task....your advice does not include these options....that is if your first instinct is to take a pass.

That said, I appreciate your response and am empowered by your willingness to take up the activity at your age (middle age here). I'm sure you're not the oldest one doing it, nor even the oldest rider on the forum. Thanks again, hope you don't mind my reply.

[MYSCTR]

Ok, after starting a reply over several times - here is the short (?) and direct answer.

Never taken any MSF course - never wrecked a scooter.

- - - YET - - -

I have been riding bicycles for 35 plus years, rode a few different motorcycles as far back as 30 plus years ago, got into mounting bike racing about 17 years ago and still ride both road and MTB all the time.

I have close to 2 years on a Buddy and over 12,000 miles on it trouble free. At times the Buddy keeps me off my bikes and I hate that. At other times, I enjoy scooting areas I have ridden (road bike) and it gets me wanting to go get on the road bike which I love.

I truly believe my driving style in a car/truck as well as my off and on road cycling has all helped to make me a better defensive scooter rider which to me equates to riding wreck free - to date anyway! I do still believe cagers who do not ride 2 wheels DO NOT see us and we have to always see them.

If it suits you - buy it - ride it - be safe - be aware. If you have no background of riding then at least take the MSF course and refresher courses every year to not allow yourself to get lazy or sloppy mentally. Just a suggestion. Of course the relevance may be affected by what we are riding, how fast or slow we ride and/or where we ride or how far we ride on an ongoing basis. I rode 9,200 miles in 2010 riding 40 - 100 miles from home frequently yet met some local club members that ride under 2,000 a year and never out of a 15 mile radius from their homes. Hope some of this helps!

Now crap – that was not so short.

[ericalm]

Skootz mentioned David Hough's Proficient Motorcycling. The early chapter on risk acceptance should be mandatory reading for any new rider, or anyone considering buying a scooter or motorcycle.

No one buys scooter "thinking" they'll have a crash. However, anyone who doesn't recognize and prepare for the possibility of it is deluding themselves and increasing their risk. Crashes are not self-fulfilling prophecies, they're an ever-present risk. Turning a blind eye to that risk simply means you're ill-prepared to deal with it.

Sad to say, but no amount of defensive riding or skill will guarantee you will not crash.

For example: There are no better-trained and more experienced riders on the road than motorcycle cops. Motorcycle cop crashes are not unheard of—in fact, I'd wager that in my area they're becoming more common due to errant drivers. True, because they spend so much time riding,m motorcycle cops' probability of a crash is much higher than most of us. But that's offset by the fact that very few if any of us are nearly as skilled on two wheels.

[peabody99]

For example: There are no better-trained and more experienced riders on the road than motorcycle cops. Motorcycle cop crashes are not unheard of—in fact, I'd wager that in my area they're becoming more common due to errant drivers.

too bad they don't wear more gear. Around here they are wearing half helmets and short sleeves. Although don't get me wrong, coming of age in the CHIP's generation I get my cheap thrill for the day when one passes me up on the freeway.

ahhh here we go http://youtu.be/hAidnO64NE4

[BuddyLicious]

I'd say crashes are very dependent on what and how you ride 2-wheelers.If you ride dirt bikes your chances are nearly 100% you will take a spill(s),it's just how it is with dirt biking.If you play on your scooter in winter chances are very high your going to take a spill on ice or snow.If all you do is ride your scooter or motorcycle on the street chance are very much lowered of crashing.A person willing to take greater chances and is a bit like a daredevil should have a higher crash rate. And then you have crashes that arn't your fault but caused by another person.

I'm not sure how you would conduct a poll that could give fairly accurate crash results since everyone's situations are so different.

I have crashed on dirt bikes and bicycles that were my own fault.I have not crashed on any of the 3 scooters I have owned.

Owned Derbi GP1 50cc,Derbi Boulevard 150cc & now Genuine Buddy 125cc

[ericalm]

For example: There are no better-trained and more experienced riders on the road than motorcycle cops. Motorcycle cop crashes are not unheard of—in fact, I'd wager that in my area they're becoming more common due to errant drivers.

too bad they don't wear more gear. Around here they are wearing half helmets and short sleeves. Although don't get me wrong, coming of age in the CHIP's generation I get my cheap thrill for the day when one passes me up on the freeway.

ahhh here we go http://youtu.be/hAidnO64NE4

CHP has started issuing modular helmets for some officers.

I can get why they don't wear more gear. Probably makes on-foot pursuit and such pretty tough. This could be an area where they could use some serious innovation from gear companies!

[ScooterTrash]

For example: There are no better-trained and more experienced riders on the road than motorcycle cops. Motorcycle cop crashes are not unheard of—in fact, I'd wager that in my area they're becoming more common due to errant drivers.

too bad they don't wear more gear. Around here they are wearing half helmets and short sleeves. Although don't get me wrong, coming of age in the CHIP's generation I get my cheap thrill for the day when one passes me up on the freeway.

ahhh here we go http://youtu.be/hAidnO64NE4

CHP has started issuing modular helmets for some officers.

I can get why they don't wear more gear. Probably makes on-foot pursuit and such pretty tough. This could be an area where they could use some serious innovation from gear companies!

Bullet proof crash jackets?

[jasondavis48108]

Bullet proof crash jackets?

I want one! My jacket is made out of kevlar but unfortunately it's the wrong kind to make me bullet proof. Then again it might be kind of difficult to sew patches to a bullet proof jacket

[peabody99]

Believe me I think about risk. Probably the dumbest thing that has happened since my husband and I started riding is assuming the way we will die will be on the scooter. I have foolishly stopped worrying we might die in a car, as a pedestrian (I walk a lot) or from some chronic disease.

[birdmove]

Well, I'm almost 58 years old and started riding off road at 8. Got my motorcycle riding permit at 15 1/2 and never looked back. Starting off road was very beneficial to my future street riding. If you dirt ride you WILL crash--and often. But you most likely won't get any serious injuries.

I have never crashed on the street. I've had an almost endless amount of stuff happening to me riding-but never a crash. I do ride scooters also, but the majority of my riding has been motorcycles. I never took a riding course.

Jon

[Beamster]

40 years, no unintentional meetings with the ground.
Now, a bit of adolescent behavior on the trailbike wouldn't be any fun without a chance encounter or two.

[jasondavis48108]

Believe me I think about risk. Probably the dumbest thing that has happened since my husband and I started riding is assuming the way we will die will be on the scooter. I have foolishly stopped worrying we might die in a car, as a pedestrian (I walk a lot) or from some chronic disease.

So True! Being a math guy I'm way more concerned about dying in an automobile accident, or worse cancer, than I am of dying on a scooter. Mainly because unless we really try, we forget how unsafe cars really are. A lot of this is non-rider perception of course. I've never heard of someone getting seriously injured or dying in a car accident and someone else saying "well he had it coming driving around in that dangerous automobile" and doctors and nurses all over the country drive to work every day in their four-wheeled donormobiles without giving it a second thought.