The Owner's Manual sucks

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:45 am

Short(ish) rant:

The owner's manual is awful.

It is tough to read. The fonts change like four times. And why is the Genuine logo such a dark grey? I can barely read text that crosses it. Also the English ranges from ok to bad to silly. For example, my scooter performs a "selfish check." (pg.15) Also I should also read about "'Engine Break-In' on page xx before initial riding."

And then, according to the specifications (pg.40), my scooter has a kick start. Could have fooled me... Maybe I can just kick anywhere?

They obviously just cut n pasted a lot of the info when adding in the 170i to the manual, but I would think they'd spend some time proofing before printing.

I don't know what to trust in this thing now.

This all started with me looking for what spark plug I needed C7RHSA (NGK), according to this wad of garbage. The problem is that I can't find anyplace that has that. Most helpfully, NGK's website doesn't even list the 170i as an option in their product finder. (Hopefully my lackluster dealer can help out here).

Interesting (if not trivial) differences that are probably true:
• 170i has a gas tank that is 0.6L smaller than every other Buddy.
• 170i is 70mm longer and 30mm taller than every other Buddy.
• brake light is 2.65W in the 170i compared to 21W in other Buddys.
• front turn signals are 21W in the 170i compared to 10W in other Buddys.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:52 am

cr7hsa...Any good bike or scooter shop or especially a Honda shop will have it. Fits lots of Hondas

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:52 am

The manuals are translated and produced by PGO, which just slaps Genuine logos on the ones bound for the US, "Ligero" on the British ones, "Metro" on the Canadian ones, etc.

No consolation, but those for the other Buddys are no better. Worse, now that they've gotten rid of the hilarious cartoon of a dog getting burned by a hot exhaust.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:54 am

I think this was one of the first complaints I had as well. The way I figure it, at least we have an awesome forum. Can you imagine trying to use their users or service manuals without the help of a few thousand Buddy enthusiasts.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:55 am

May not be PC , but we always called that language Chinglish...same good stuff that is on fireworks

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:13 am

Yeah, I realized it was a poor translation job. For a short time I worked at a place that made the English equivalent of that. The big problem is, to save money, these kind of jobs use non-fluent staff to jam new text into existing text (even if though they can't read it) and just hope everything works out.

The other huge problem is that I never saw a cartoon of a dog being burned by hot exhaust. I demand satisfaction. Demand it.

A final note, the manual specifies (twice) C7RHSA, not CR7HSA. This is part of the problem I'm having.

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:20 am

ericalm wrote:Worse, now that they've gotten rid of the hilarious cartoon of a dog getting burned by a hot exhaust.

He's in my 09 Rattler manual... and now my new avatar.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:29 am

Lotrat wrote:
ericalm wrote:Worse, now that they've gotten rid of the hilarious cartoon of a dog getting burned by a hot exhaust.
He's in my 09 Rattler manual... and now my new avatar.

Holy cow! That just made my night!!! Also, thanks to you, I now know I've been using my scooter "incorrectly." Does the manual specify the "crrect" way to burn dogs?

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:49 am

Here's a secret about how manuals are produced. Nor at every company, but for all too many of them:

The product is almost ready to start shipping, when someone in customer support notices that there is no manual for it. He asks the person in charge of engineering the product to produce one. The head of engineering then assigns the one person on his staff he can most easily spare - his least-qualified person - to do it.

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:55 am

I think this was post #3 for me, and I still read it for Scalpel's explanation.

viewtopic.php?p=139333&highlight=#139333

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:30 am

I don't see anything about "redestrians" either, Wheelz. I got screwed I guess.

@TVB, it is worse than that, because we are getting the translation of that goons terrible halfassmanship.

On another note, I finally found a product listing on the NGK website and there are no C7RHSA plugs, so this must be a simple transposition (twice). Good to know.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:14 am

Don't feel bad, jonlink. The manual for my SYM HD200 is as bad as what I've seen of the Buddy. Plus, the manual for my Fiddle II is exactly the same as the manual for my HD20 - including the suggested coolant, and the Fiddle is aircooled!

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:17 am

There's enough writers, graphic artists and the like on here... perhaps crowd sourcing a new and useful Buddy owner's manual for Genuine to slip in with every new bike would be a fun project. I mean, what other company does a crowd sourced owner's manual? Written by enthusiasts for enthusiasts in plain English and proofread by Genuine staff.

Could be fun.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:27 am

neotrotsky wrote:There's enough writers, graphic artists and the like on here... perhaps crowd sourcing a new and useful Buddy owner's manual for Genuine to slip in with every new bike would be a fun project. I mean, what other company does a crowd sourced owner's manual? Written by enthusiasts for enthusiasts in plain English and proofread by Genuine staff.

Could be fun.

I've actually thought about this. I'll put some thought back into it.

Chilly · Post by **Chilly** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:11 am

"• 170i has a gas tank that is 0.6L smaller than every other Buddy."

Yikes. That's small.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:54 pm

ericalm wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:There's enough writers, graphic artists and the like on here... perhaps crowd sourcing a new and useful Buddy owner's manual for Genuine to slip in with every new bike would be a fun project. I mean, what other company does a crowd sourced owner's manual? Written by enthusiasts for enthusiasts in plain English and proofread by Genuine staff.

Could be fun.
I've actually thought about this. I'll put some thought back into it.

After going through the manual last night, I was thinking about this too. I think an easy step one would be to get some photos going. Some of the ones in the manual are blurry, use PGO specific equipment, or just aren't helpful.

I don't think we need Genuine's blessing. I'm not saying we shoudn't offer it to them, but even as an unofficial version it could still be much more useful.

I can help with this. I have just moved back to the US from Japan and I haven't found work yet. It would be something to keep me busy. I used to do freelance graphic design and I was employed as a desktop publisher a few years back, plus I've got a background in writing and proofing.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:06 pm

Best manual ever is for my Moto Guzzi Lemans 850:

Preaching to the choir!

Old Crow · Post by **Old Crow** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:00 pm

Well, that Moto Guzzi manual may give me a bit of insight into the tad of the fuel I found in the tube between my air filter and carb after a night of rowdy city riding.

"...if the twist grip is not used correctly in accordance with engine revolutions, there might be excess of fuel which is ejected by the carburetor ending in the air filter box. When traveling at low speeds, in other words at low revs, it is necessary for the throttle grip to be used with care..."

That advice really helps with gas mileage too!

avonpirate · Post by **avonpirate** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:04 pm

I've been rounding up as much info as I can to understand as much as I 'can't.'

Most manuals/books translated from Taiwanese, Chinese, Japanese are a kick.... they make me laugh, alot. But I might assasin their languages if I attempted to do a translation from English.

My issue is with the American company distributing manuals with their products. There should be a proof reading editor on staff. Poorly written manuals is a subtle communication towards the customer. "Once out of the door, we don't care HOW we speak to you, nor if it's complete, accurate or clear"
I'm just saying: you are not selling scooters you are selling fun and transportation. You are not providing a manual you are demonstrating an attitude towards the consumer.

Tristik · Post by **Tristik** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:16 pm

~~
The Blur manual is just as laughably bad. Probably translated by the same person.

When I first got the bike, I read the manual from front to back. In different parts of the manual, it assumes the first service is done at no less than 3 completely different mileages.

The maintenance chart/schedule is, I think, the only useful part of it.
~~

spr0k3t · Post by **spr0k3t** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:24 am

We all are well aware of how horrid the manuals really are, but why not create our own. Pull together a collaborative manual through the use of something like Google Docs. Allow anyone to contribute and update. If clarification is needed, allow people to add comments asking for further information.

I'm willing to start a manual for the RH50 if there's enough interest and people willing to chip in their own efforts. I would need help with pictures as my RH50 is nowhere near stock. The same style guides should be used across all manuals.

Here's a starter:
Genuine Roughhouse 50
Genuine Manual Style Guide

TomCat · Post by **TomCat** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:46 am

spr0k3t wrote:We all are well aware of how horrid the manuals really are, but why not create our own. Pull together a collaborative manual through the use of something like Google Docs. Allow anyone to contribute and update. If clarification is needed, allow people to add comments asking for further information.

I'm willing to start a manual for the RH50 if there's enough interest and people willing to chip in their own efforts. I would need help with pictures as my RH50 is nowhere near stock. The same style guides should be used across all manuals.

Here's a starter:
Genuine Roughouse 50
Genuine Manual Style Guide

I'm new to the scooter world but would be willing to help with what I can.
Pics I could do, mine is stock except for derestricting & debadging.
What kind of pics are you looking for?

tortoise · Post by **tortoise** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:19 pm

Have to give Bintelli kudos for their 49cc owners manual . . even has valve specs on page 24. But in context, before the Schwinn branded scooters joined the departed, they also had excellent owners manuals. Baja Motorsports has at least made a worthwhile effort with their scooter manuals.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:39 pm

spr0k3t wrote:We all are well aware of how horrid the manuals really are, but why not create our own. Pull together a collaborative manual through the use of something like Google Docs. Allow anyone to contribute and update. If clarification is needed, allow people to add comments asking for further information.

I'm willing to start a manual for the RH50 if there's enough interest and people willing to chip in their own efforts. I would need help with pictures as my RH50 is nowhere near stock. The same style guides should be used across all manuals.

Here's a starter:
Genuine Roughouse 50
Genuine Manual Style Guide

This has come up before and there was talk of us crowdsourcing something.

If someone wanted to take this on (definitely a project I don't have time for), I'd happily permit use of any content from MB provided there's credit and that I get to proof it before it's done to ensure anything credited to the site or found here is accurate. We should talk!

I'm also as anal a copy editor as can be found and would find time to help with that aspect of it.

spr0k3t · Post by **spr0k3t** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:45 am

You got it Eric. I'm going to start working on this, but it's going to be a slow going procedure. I'd like to put together everything I've found from owner's manual to maintenance guide. Information will be posted strictly from public domain.

Pictures I will need would be color versions of the pictures found in the original owner's manual.

There will be overlapping material, so the subsections will be marked and edited in their own sub chapters.

Beamster · Post by **Beamster** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:52 am

I especially like the picture about not running over the dog.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:58 am

Beamster wrote:I especially like the picture about not running over the dog.

No longer in the new manuals! It's warning that the exhaust is hot.

jaeger45 · Post by **jaeger45** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:14 pm

ericalm wrote:
Beamster wrote:I especially like the picture about not running over the dog.
No longer in the new manuals! It's warning that the exhaust is hot.

New manual? Does that mean the "Black Cat" manual (with the infamous dog picture) I got with my new Roughhouse 50 is a collectible? $weet....early retirement....

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:13 am

jaeger45 wrote:
ericalm wrote:
Beamster wrote:I especially like the picture about not running over the dog.
No longer in the new manuals! It's warning that the exhaust is hot.
New manual? Does that mean the "Black Cat" manual (with the infamous dog picture) I got with my new Roughhouse 50 is a collectible? $weet....early retirement....

Holy crap their still handing out BlackCat manuals for the RH50. I agree this owners manual thing has got to be done!

pattio · Post by **pattio** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:50 am

ericalm wrote:
spr0k3t wrote:We all are well aware of how horrid the manuals really are, but why not create our own. Pull together a collaborative manual through the use of something like Google Docs. Allow anyone to contribute and update. If clarification is needed, allow people to add comments asking for further information.

I'm willing to start a manual for the RH50 if there's enough interest and people willing to chip in their own efforts. I would need help with pictures as my RH50 is nowhere near stock. The same style guides should be used across all manuals.

Here's a starter:
Genuine Roughouse 50
Genuine Manual Style Guide
This has come up before and there was talk of us crowdsourcing something.

If someone wanted to take this on (definitely a project I don't have time for), I'd happily permit use of any content from MB provided there's credit and that I get to proof it before it's done to ensure anything credited to the site or found here is accurate. We should talk!

I'm also as anal a copy editor as can be found and would find time to help with that aspect of it.

Personally I'm really surprised that it hasn't been worth it for Genuine to 'invest' in good owners manuals. We all understand that conditions aren't right to manufacture inexpensive scooters in the US, so it makes sense to import them from countries where they are cheap and plentiful, but you would think that the skill set to create really good manuals is ample here.

And by 'good', I don't just mean having correct technical information and grammar, I mean something that delights, entertains, and functions as part of both the promotional and the ownership experience. Buddy buyers are novices, and they are hungry for information and support. Genuine, having sprung from the forehead of Scooterworks, has institutional memory of the time when American scooterists had no inter webs, and had to visit and re-visit our cherished print catalogs to get information.

I know if I wrote the manual, page one, if not the cover, would say 'Genuine Buddy, those lights are called the deadlights and they are not wired in, Owner's Manual.'

avonpirate · Post by **avonpirate** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:25 pm

When I was in graduate school, and Sesame Street was in the conceptualization stage, I helped with a few of the early scripts: how to communicate the 'difficult' in a fun way. I'd enjoy reviewing whatever comes out of this group, and given my 'lack of knowledge' I'd be a great thermometer for it's ease of translation and understanding by the newby.