Thank you MB for supporting the blackout

chinaski · Post by **chinaski** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:04 am

Thanks to Eric and everyone who were responsible for supporting the blackout protesting SOPA and PIPA. Even though it was tough to not lurk for those 12 hours it was nice to see MB uniting with the internet community.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:24 am

I second this. Thank you so much. I was so damn proud to see MB dark this morning.

Edit: Don't ask me why "proud". I don't know. It's dumb, but I just was.

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:27 am

Agreed.

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:30 am

+1

think of all the stuff we discuss here, the pics etc. that are used for no financial gain on our part, that we sling around to make a point or share information. If just one of those items are copyrighted and the holder gets bent out of shape, they could shut the site down. It's unreal that such power would be given over to a for profit entity and administered without any due process that is guaranteed by the constitution, the most basic of documents that our entire society is structured upon. It's crazy.

BUT, SOPA isn't really about net censorship, it's about money and how it is used to basically bribe our elected officials, by the few, to enact legislation upon their behalf that adversely affects the entire population.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:36 am

Agreed!

I'm tired of corporations controlling representatives that are supposed to work for the public.

Ima shut up now, but I did want to say that I really do appreciate the support of the blackout.

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:50 am

rsrider wrote: BUT, SOPA isn't really about net censorship, it's about money and how it is used to basically bribe our elected officials, by the few, to enact legislation upon their behalf that adversely affects the entire population.

The next step after SOPA's defeated needs to be the Stop Legislative Piracy Act.

brianwheelies · Post by **brianwheelies** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:54 am

Good on ya' for supporting that.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:57 am

I read that the dude that created SOPA was guilty of illegally using an image for his website.. funny. There is no way SOPA would ever get passed

Early · Post by **Early** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:04 am

Upvote! Long time lurker here. I love this website, it's a great community and the information provided by everyone has been invaluable to me.

Funny story though - I actually bought a used Stella off Craigslist today and I was trying to check this site for some things to look out for but it was down! I bought it anyway of course

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:30 am

Remember: A bunch of millionaires over 65 are debating the future of the internet and commerce on this planet, since this bill would be able to limit information out of this country as well.

Yes, your grandparents who can't even program a cellphone are telling you what you can do with your technology!

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:37 am

+1 for agreement in support of the Blackout! Way to go.

And the "coverletter" was well done!

heyitsomid · Post by **heyitsomid** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:47 am

Quo Vadimus wrote:
rsrider wrote: BUT, SOPA isn't really about net censorship, it's about money and how it is used to basically bribe our elected officials, by the few, to enact legislation upon their behalf that adversely affects the entire population.
The next step after SOPA's defeated needs to be the Stop Legislative Piracy Act.

YUP!!!!!!!!

neotrotsky wrote: Remember: A bunch of millionaires over 65 are debating the future of the internet and commerce on this planet, since this bill would be able to limit information out of this country as well.

Yes, your grandparents who can't even program a cellphone are telling you what you can do with your technology!

Yup again! They are not just doing it with the internet but a whole host of things. I'm just waiting for this class of people to pass on through attrition, hopefully the people that take their places aren't like them.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:51 am

'nother +1. I suffered a bit of withdrawal, and I actually got some work done

, but I was glad to see MB join the blackout.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:24 am

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:25 am

Thanks, all.

Honestly, I hadn't thought of doing it until it was suggested to me. I gave a lot of thought to stepping outside the boundaries of what we usually do and discuss here, but this issue directly affects MB and our future. I was also a bit emboldened when I found out MV was doing the same.

It was a late decision and I didn't even have time to warn the moderators.

A big part of the protest for me was showing people what the Internet might be like should SOPA/PIPA pass. MB would be so vulnerable that I'd have little choice but to shut the site down to avoid litigation.

It also goes to show just how little legislators understand the Internet and technology, even in 2012.

Post by **illnoise** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:49 am

ericalm wrote:It was a late decision and I didn't even have time to warn the moderators.

No worries, it's your site, you never need to think twice about me, seriously.

I will say, just to be the devil's advocate and start a flame war…

From what I've read about these acts, they're a joke and we were right to speak up against them, but there are also forces at work here that I sorta feel 'used' a lot of small sites and individuals to do their work for them.

The new media industry, especially some of the huge players like Yahoo and Google, and YouTube that were behind the blackout, make CRAPLOADS of money, BILLIONS, and a lot of these sites really do depend almost entirely on content created by others. Sites like HuffPo, Gawker, really just about any big blog, generate a small amount of their own content and mostly just rehash insight and content from other sites. Every small-time blogger I know has had a story they worked hard on linked up on some huge site, only to see a tiny link (if that) back to their story, hidden at the end. When TechCrunch or Jalopnik picks up your story, they act like theyr'e doing you a favor, but you really don't see any benefit from that, since they inevitably rewrite the story, post all your photos, and basically take credit for your work. Then they get linked up on facebook, digg, etc, not you.

YouTube is maybe 50% user-generated content (baby videos, mentos explosions, cell phone concert video, bad acoustic covers of hit songs, etc) and 50% stuff that's, honestly, the property of someone else… music videos, clips from movies and tv shows, I get indignant when I can't watch a sports highlight or a music video on youtube, but honestly, they have no right to host a lot of that stuff, and it needs to be addressed. Flickr is the same thing, they're raking in cash as we pay them to host our photos, but many people upload galleries of copyrighted images, too.

We all hate the music and film industry because they've been capitalist pigs and tripled the price we paid for LPs by introducing the 'cheaper, more cost-effective" cd, then frak up digital content for the last decade. It was easy for these huge new media corporations to turn consumers against the old media corporations, but the truth is, the new media corps have an awful lot to answer for, and many are valued ridiculously high because we freely give them our content, ideas, images, and personal information.

SOPA is some truly stupid legislation, but copyright issues on the internet DO need to be addressed, and some of these new media corporations need just as much reigning-in as their old-school enemies. Google has done some SERIOUSLY messed-up stuff in the last few months. Apple is about to launch an education initiative that may or may not be in our best interests. These aren't your friends' blogs or Modern Buddy, these are corporations, some of the biggest, most profitable corporations out there.

So fight SOPA, but fight to protect yourself and your friends, don't feel sorry for I can haz cheezborger and ebaumsworld and google and flickr, they're using you to fight hollywood's lobbyists, which is just proof that they're just as evil as hollywood, but smarter and sneakier.

End rant, sorry. I just really didn't see a single story anywhere today that made that point and it got me kind of angry.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:45 am

Along the lines of Illnoise's post above, has anyone here read the text of SOPA or PIPA? I got about half way through the text of SOPA today, and hope to finish tomorrow. SOPA is only 78 pages of double spaced, heavily indented text, with lots of Definitions in the beginning.

It is very legal language, so pretty dense (read boring) reading. And I'd wager that many of your Congressmen haven't and won't read it either. they'll allow their staffs and lobbyists to handle that for them.

Help your representatives out. Read the bills, make your decision and let them know how you feel.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:51 am

ericalm wrote:Thanks, all.

Honestly, I hadn't thought of doing it until it was suggested to me. I gave a lot of thought to stepping outside the boundaries of what we usually do and discuss here, but this issue directly affects MB and our future. I was also a bit emboldened when I found out MV was doing the same.

It was a late decision and I didn't even have time to warn the moderators.

A big part of the protest for me was showing people what the Internet might be like should SOPA/PIPA pass. MB would be so vulnerable that I'd have little choice but to shut the site down to avoid litigation.

It also goes to show just how little legislators understand the Internet and technology, even in 2012.

Hey....I want a refund for the time MB was not up. I think its only fair to be compensated for denial of access at a rate of 1/365 of what $ I pay on an annual basis.

Seriously eric...it's your site and your decision....and this was one I agree with.

Good on you!

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:05 am

Isn't the ability to choose, a fundamental human conditioning, is what this whole thing is really about.
Think about it, so I use an image, or even a text script , from another site,book,magazine, or whatever, as long as I am not using said material for profit or gain or in some way that benefits me in any way, and credit is given to the original author, what is the real harm done?
If I or any of you were to copy something word for word and claim that as your own that's plagerism and possible copyright infringment, both of which have laws in place to correct that type of behaviour. Photographic and music content also have similar laws in place to protect that as well, so why do we need more law on top of law?
The legislators that are trying to "Do what's best" for us are ( to use a common phrase) 'money grubbing whores', some one is trying to make a buck from this to make themselves feel like they have done something for the good of all. It may be well intentioned but short sightedness and stop gap measures are not needed. We all have enough of that in our daily lives.

Was I bummed out that MB wasn't up and running in its usual fashion on the morning in question. You betcha'. But I do have to agree with the way it was done.
If this legislation was to pass all of you may wake up one morning to find your favorite internet site as dark as a burned out 404 code.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:16 pm

illnoise I couldn't agree more. These bills were pretty poorly written and far too vague which is what I think scared people. We do need to protect folks copyrighted work but we need to get some folks involved in the bill drafting process who actually understand the interwebs

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:46 pm

I am very happy with the choice to participate in the blackout as well.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:48 pm

illnoise wrote:From what I've read about these acts, they're a joke and we were right to speak up against them, but there are also forces at work here that I sorta feel 'used' a lot of small sites and individuals to do their work for them.

I don't have a problem with that. There are some factions opposed to SOPA whom I find downright contemptible. But that's not the point any more than it's the point when the American Nazi Party insists they have a right to free speech (which they do). The question is whether the law is right or wrong, not whether some of the people who might benefit from it are good or evil.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:16 pm

I also support the initiative against these bills.

After years of suffering the unintended consequences of Sarbanes-Oxley (changing passwords every 15 minutes, ridiculous restrictions of who can access what, dealing with the cottage industry of lawyers, auditors, certifying agencies, and other 'sperts who feed off the imposition of inane regulations) I'm loathe to place any trust in these sorts of things.

At worst, legislation such as this places heavy burdens upon everyone but the "perps". At best, they're just wolf tickets.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:19 pm

TVB wrote:
illnoise wrote:From what I've read about these acts, they're a joke and we were right to speak up against them, but there are also forces at work here that I sorta feel 'used' a lot of small sites and individuals to do their work for them.
I don't have a problem with that. There are some factions opposed to SOPA whom I find downright contemptible. But that's not the point any more than it's the point when the American Nazi Party insists they have a right to free speech (which they do). The question is whether the law is right or wrong, not whether some of the people who might benefit from it are good or evil.

+1... not sure if I would use right/wrong though cause alot of people have different ideas of right/wrong, but I understand what you mean. Too many rules/laws that are just there to benefit one group.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:37 pm

illnoise wrote:
ericalm wrote:It was a late decision and I didn't even have time to warn the moderators.
No worries, it's your site, you never need to think twice about me, seriously.

Agreed- I didn't need a warning and was happy when I saw @scooterism tweet that Modern Vespa and Modern Buddy were participating. I headed to the site just to see what it looked like. Great decision, Eric!

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:04 pm

I couldn't get on anyway due to an evil trojan, but was happy to read from a fellow club member that MV was down in protest of SOPA... I had a feeling that meant MB was down too.

Kudos to you for making the decision, Eric.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:36 pm

agrogod wrote:Isn't the ability to choose, a fundamental human conditioning, is what this whole thing is really about.
Think about it, so I use an image, or even a text script , from another site,book,magazine, or whatever, as long as I am not using said material for profit or gain or in some way that benefits me in any way, and credit is given to the original author, what is the real harm done?

Depending on how much text you use and your relationship with the original content, you likely wouldn't be violating copyright in that instance. Distributing entire articles, passages from books, etc., however isn't permitted by fair use—and rightfully so.

Replicating images and distributing them immediately devalues them. It makes it harder for the creator/rights owner to make money by selling an image that's already been all over the Internet or widely seen.

Sometimes, propagating images is good for the creator/rights holder. It gets them noticed. It helps with their marketing, personal branding, etc.

AND there's a lot of grey area there as well, when many people don't or can't know when or how they're infringing on copyright. All the more reason to get rid of these bills.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:05 pm

illnoise wrote:We all hate the music and film industry because they've been capitalist pigs and tripled the price we paid for LPs by introducing the 'cheaper, more cost-effective" cd, then frak up digital content for the last decade. It was easy for these huge new media corporations to turn consumers against the old media corporations, but the truth is, the new media corps have an awful lot to answer for, and many are valued ridiculously high because we freely give them our content, ideas, images, and personal information.

SOPA is some truly stupid legislation, but copyright issues on the internet DO need to be addressed, and some of these new media corporations need just as much reigning-in as their old-school enemies. Google has done some SERIOUSLY messed-up stuff in the last few months. Apple is about to launch an education initiative that may or may not be in our best interests. These aren't your friends' blogs or Modern Buddy, these are corporations, some of the biggest, most profitable corporations out there.

So fight SOPA, but fight to protect yourself and your friends, don't feel sorry for I can haz cheezborger and ebaumsworld and google and flickr, they're using you to fight hollywood's lobbyists, which is just proof that they're just as evil as hollywood, but smarter and sneakier.

End rant, sorry. I just really didn't see a single story anywhere today that made that point and it got me kind of angry.

There are no white hats in this fight and there's plenty of hypocrisy on both sides and even among the protesters such as myself. I'll own up to being vigilant about certain types of copyright and creators' rights (particularly with regards to photography, illustration/art, writing and works produced by "the little guys") while wantonly violating them at other times.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:15 pm

Ummm, yep, I guess a lot of us will have to generate 'original' avatars.....

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:20 am

All I will say is....Long live the x- files

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:40 am

PeteH wrote:Ummm, yep, I guess a lot of us will have to generate 'original' avatars..... :oops:

I do this cheaply for those who do not have the means or the time. :)
.