Ride Leaders: Your Opinions, Please

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:41 am

SYMbionic Duo wrote:Don't let someone behind you push you!

If i'm riding into the wind and i see a line of cars behind me, i just pull over and let the group pass, then resume. Last thing i want is some idiot in a hurry trying to pass me and two other cars and causing an accident. Almost happened a couple of months ago, chick in a Pontiac almost hit a deer, as she was passing the two cars behind me and me.

From another thread, but I wanna get this some visibility, 'cause I need some advice.

I offered to lead a ride a couple of weekends ago, via our local "club" web site. I mentioned that it was an "advanced ride," and asked that ONLY 125cc+ bikes show up. Of course in our group, we don't care what make or style of bike it is -- we only ask that it be safe, legal and expected to be serviceable enough to complete the ride (shizznat happens, of course). So yeah, your Harley is welcome to ride with our Buddys, Kymcos, Vespas, what have you.

One of our guys showed up on a 50cc scooter that he admitted, before we left, could only do 40MPH.

There were sections of our ride posted at 55MPH, which means 65MPH+ cagers.

Should I have been the Bad Guy, and refused to lead the ride?
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Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:03 am

No need to refuse to lead the ride, just refuse to let the 50cc go. Sounds like the ride requirements were clearly posted. Group safety is always the first concern. Apparently the 50cc guy had no respect for either group policy or group safety. I would remind him of the policies and the requirements for this particular ride and send him home. If he continued to ignore group safety policies in the future then banning him might be necessary.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:20 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:No need to refuse to lead the ride, just refuse to let the 50cc go. Sounds like the ride requirements were clearly posted. Group safety is always the first concern. Apparently the 50cc guy had no respect for either group policy or group safety. I would remind him of the policies and the requirements for this particular ride and send him home. If he continued to ignore group safety policies in the future then banning him might be necessary.

x2 ^^^ Be polite the first time and take the time to explain to him why he can't come along on the 50. Hopefully he gets the idea. Nothing against a 50, but they don't (usually) do 65.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:13 pm

As someone who had to miss out on a couple rides due to being on a 50cc at first, I agree.

If you advertise that is for machines that can do 55+, that person needs to respect that. It's for the safety of the group as well as their enjoyment.

There a a bajillion around town rides for the 50. I still take Zumi out for those, sometimes at the expense of riding the faster scoot. I'd be polite too, and just say "sorry, sit this one out". Or, if there are a few 50cc riders with experience, tell them where you plan to be for lunch, and tell them you'll see them there!

tbonestone · Post by **tbonestone** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:19 pm

Never bag on a ride when there are riders willing to ride. I agree to be polite to the 50cc rider asking them not to attend. I've lead a bunch of rides, was a traffic blocker on other rides, and just a rider on others. I would always make sure I had the correct scoot for the ride du jour.

If your 50cc rider wasn't smart enough to read the details posted of your ride, it is not your fault.

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:22 pm

We frequently have hopped up 50's show up at our rides. All are Welcome but it is clearly stated that a sustained speed of what ever will be nessary.Generally the 50's will break off and go their own way as we get out of the city. But hey where can you show a cute little Rucus to an appreciative audience? Some times we do a intown ride Where 40 mph is enough... R

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:38 pm

I agree with all the above. I try to make sure that about every 3rd ride is "50cc friendly" so that they don't feel left out.

I also agree that a good option would be to tell him where the ride will end, so he can meet you there if that is what he wants to do.

A local favorite ride here is Mt Lemmon. It climbs about 7000 feet in 26 miles. We have folks who just want to see if their 50cc can do it. I have them start at the back and drop off when their bikes cannot hang with the rest of us. They get to the top about 20 minutes after the rest of us, but they do just fine on the way down. Wheeeeee!

Howard

iMoses · Post by **iMoses** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:28 pm

If you have posted a 125cc and up ride he should of respected the parameters of the ride.

I do agree with the be nice the first time, especially if they are newbies, or just new to your group.

Your idea of letting them know the destination and the route is excellent.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:40 pm

I agree that if a requirement is posted it's on the person showing up to sit it out.
I remember my first group ride we had someone came with an unrestricted 50cc and didn't mention it; nobody noticed, that is until we hit a stretch of 55MPH road out of the city and suddenly there was a huge hole in our formation. It wasn't too big of a deal in the end because the ride was all nice curvy backroads with a lower limit, but having a new person create a big gap for cars to pull into on a highway wasn't the best situation.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:46 pm

it's pretty much impossible to exclude anyone on a public ride, publicly posted. I mean, the 50cc will eventually fall way behind and that's their bad since they knew ahead of time the ride wasn't suitable for their bike.

everyone is responsible for their own safety and riding safely within the group. there's nothing going to stop someone from following along.

In the pre-ride debrief, review the route, let smaller displacements know where they will struggle, ask them to stay in the back so as not to split up the whole group.

Truth be told: this is why I largely only lead groups of people I know. I will join just about any ride that's going where I want to go BUT I will only lead a ride of riders I know and trust. I just don't want any complainers ruining my good day and I don't want anyone giving me shit about missing a turn

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:09 pm

Now that people have chimed in, I'll tell ya how it went down.

I did lead the ride. The software is a bit funky over there, so here is the ride notice I posted, and here's this rider's question about bringing his Zuma (my response is just below that, #668).

Despite this, he rides up on the Zuma, and fool that I am, I go ahead with the ride, going over the safety spiel as I always do. He said, "Don't worry -- if I can't keep up, I'll drop off and head back," etc. Of course, being a social group of people, most of the riders that day kept their speed down on the 55MPH+ sections of the route, to match his. That meant one yahoo passed us on a somewhat risky stretch of road, and it was only then that I started to get pretty angry about it. After all, this guy also has a Kawasaki Ninja (bigger than the 250, even... not sure of the displacement), and he certainly would have been welcome to come on the ride with that.

So, I dunno... my inclination is to simply not lead anymore rides at this point.
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Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:16 pm

jprestonian wrote:...So, I dunno... my inclination is to simply not lead anymore rides at this point.

Why stop leading rides? Don't punish yourself. Just don't let that nimrod (or anyone else) join you when they don't have an appropriate scooter.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:57 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
jprestonian wrote:...So, I dunno... my inclination is to simply not lead anymore rides at this point.
Why stop leading rides? Don't punish yourself. Just don't let that nimrod (or anyone else) join you when they don't have an appropriate scooter.

Well, the point I was making was that you can't stop 'em from showing up, and others will ride slower to accommodate them when they do.
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Post by **ericalm** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:10 am

jprestonian wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:
jprestonian wrote:...So, I dunno... my inclination is to simply not lead anymore rides at this point.
Why stop leading rides? Don't punish yourself. Just don't let that nimrod (or anyone else) join you when they don't have an appropriate scooter.
Well, the point I was making was that you can't stop 'em from showing up, and others will ride slower to accommodate them when they do.
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Make him your sweeper and tell everyone his job is to now be behind everyone else unless he gets totally left behind, in which case his job is to go home.

Okay, only slightly facetious. If you have a sweeper, let the group know it's his job to keep the back of the pack together. Then let the sweeper and the 50cc rider know that if the 50 can't keep up, the sweeper will pass him and allow the group to go the posted speed.

Honestly, this is an issue even when you say 125cc+ in posting a ride. A Buddy 125 is much faster than many other 125s on the market. I often mention the Vino. Not picking on them, but there they are, falling behind our pack every time.

It may be good to ask that members/riders respect the rest of the group and opt out of rides they're not capable of doing. Let them know you'd rather avoid the awkwardness and potential embarrassment (to them) of having to single them out and exclude them at the start of the ride.

I've run into this recently since our group has started capping attendance at some rides. We've had to get a bit firm in letting people know that there's a reason for the policy and that if they want to ride with us, they should respect it, like it or not. Most are okay with it since we also put on rides where all can join as well.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:49 pm

ericalm wrote:I've run into this recently since our group has started capping attendance at some rides. We've had to get a bit firm in letting people know that there's a reason for the policy and that if they want to ride with us, they should respect it, like it or not. Most are okay with it since we also put on rides where all can join as well.

Capping as in "only 12 riders," etc.?

Gee, we rarely have more riders than we "need," but I would try to get two "leaders," and break up the groups a few minutes apart if that were the case, I think.

Thanks for the other suggestions, Eric. I'm putting together an official safety document, and will incorporate some of what you mentioned, here.
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Post by **ericalm** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:32 am

jprestonian wrote:
ericalm wrote:I've run into this recently since our group has started capping attendance at some rides. We've had to get a bit firm in letting people know that there's a reason for the policy and that if they want to ride with us, they should respect it, like it or not. Most are okay with it since we also put on rides where all can join as well.
Capping as in "only 12 riders," etc.?

Gee, we rarely have more riders than we "need," but I would try to get two "leaders," and break up the groups a few minutes apart if that were the case, I think.

Thanks for the other suggestions, Eric. I'm putting together an official safety document, and will incorporate some of what you mentioned, here.
.

Usually capped at 15 or 30. Without caps, we now get 45-60 per ride.

The problem is that we need to train more leaders! And we need to line up all of our help ahead of time. We've relied on the same 5 people for a couple years and that's not practical anymore.

moriahskies · Post by **moriahskies** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:06 pm

I take turns leading the rides in our club with a few others. If you posted the minimum requirement then you or one of the other leaders should have politely said no, he can't go.

Our rides are all 50 cc friendly, but we had a chinese scooter show up one day that could only go 20-30 mph (found out during the ride). So we changed our rules to your scooter has to be able to at least go 40. And we've got some aggressors who aren't afraid to enforce things!

okcgravity · Post by **okcgravity** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:06 am

Hey, thought I would chime in a little. Don't come back over here much since my Buddy was wrecked and I ended up on a Vespa afterwords. This topic however is close to my heart as of late.

I am one of the ride leaders/leadership committee for ReadySteadyGo SC in Dallas. We host once a month rides and have recently been running into this issue. On most of our rides we've been posting that someone needs to maintain a minimum speed of 35 at all times, but we try to avoid saying no 50cc's. We have a guy on a Buddy 50cc that runs 45 without any real problems. However we recently had a ride where a pair of new riders showed up on a moped and an old Honda 50cc Aero that topped out at 25. They assured us they could maintain 35 so we figured they knew their bikes and we left. Luckily this ride was limited to a few brief stints on 40 mph roads but mostly 35. However not only was this a safety issue we also had several regular riders just leave the ride due to the speed being done. So this also becomes an issue of enjoyment on a ride, do you cater to the odd duck or the group?

One thing we have discussed to address these issues is trying to make 2 types of rides. One type where the ride is the event. These will probably have a min speed posting of 40mph and feature longer rides. The focus of these gatherings will be the ride. Other times we will be having rides to an event that is the focus. This weekend were doing a Mardi Gras Parade, the ride leading to the parade will be smaller side streets and roads so the ride will be open to any scooter. So we will have "rides" and "rides to social gatherings" This will allow us to include everyone, while taking care of what needs to be taken care of. We also allow people who own scooters and motorbikes to choose what bike might be best for the ride. We have folks that bring their MC's on Maxi rides and their Buddy's on others.

The other option we've entertained as our rides are getting up to the 30-40 rider number is splitting into two groups. Letting the 150 and down group leave first and 5-10 min later the 150 and up group leave later. Basically 50cc folks in the first group and Maxi's in the second while all the 125-300 guys can chose their group.

If you want some paperwork to look at while making your rules and ride guidelines check out the RSG website and contact us there. We will offer our guidelines and PreRide script for people to look at for ideas on their own. We have a PreRide script we've made so the information is consistent and easy to remember.

http://readysteadygosc.com

pattio · Post by **pattio** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:00 pm

I have some experience leading group rides.

My scooter shop was open for eight years. We had Wednesday night rides, open to all. That's over four hundred Wednesdays. I believe I led the majority of them, which is to say at least and probably more than two hundred group rides. Most of those groups ranged from 1 to 12 riders, sometimes getting to the 20s.

My biggest ride led was 100 vintage scooters at a rally. I will never forget the moment that day when I crested a hill and looked back over my shoulder and saw that the entire road behind me was filled with friends on sparkling scooters and nothing else, and that they were all following my lead. I will always have fond memories of blasting around on winter nights with 3 to 5 trusted, experienced friends out for a good time on our scooters, taking short-cuts, darting down alleys, and stopping only for pinball or food.

I think you made the right call forging ahead with your group ride even though a person came on a slower bike. This stuff is supposed to be fun and bring people together (you can attend a Solo Ride anytime you want, after all), so there's no need to be heavy handed. That said, I think you may have missed an opportunity to send the guy home _before_ you felt pissed about the pace. As a part of your route planning, I suggest having a place in mind for regrouping early in the ride- and using this place, if need be, to point out to a person that it's not working out.

I also want to respond to the earlier joke about 'make the slow guy the sweeper', because this really is important: the sweeper (in our local parlance the tailgunner) is a vital position and should be occupied by someone competent who you trust, the most experienced person you can put in the job. Sure you're the one in charge, but part of being in charge is looking someone else in the eye and getting an all-ready from them before you launch the mission.

black sunshine · Post by **black sunshine** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:45 pm

jprestonian wrote:Now that people have chimed in, I'll tell ya how it went down.

I did lead the ride. The software is a bit funky over there, so here is the ride notice I posted, and here's this rider's question about bringing his Zuma (my response is just below that, #668).

Despite this, he rides up on the Zuma, and fool that I am, I go ahead with the ride, going over the safety spiel as I always do. He said, "Don't worry -- if I can't keep up, I'll drop off and head back," etc. Of course, being a social group of people, most of the riders that day kept their speed down on the 55MPH+ sections of the route, to match his. That meant one yahoo passed us on a somewhat risky stretch of road, and it was only then that I started to get pretty angry about it. After all, this guy also has a Kawasaki Ninja (bigger than the 250, even... not sure of the displacement), and he certainly would have been welcome to come on the ride with that.

So, I dunno... my inclination is to simply not lead anymore rides at this point.
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okay, wait. there was a 50cc-friendly ride afterwards, too? he REALLY should have just waited for that one. i have several friends that ride 50s, and while i invited them to our scoot meets, when it comes to rides unless they have at least a 125 i really advise against it . . .