HOW SAFE IS TOO SAFE?

josephwtyler · Post by **josephwtyler** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:33 am

I just got my buddy 50cc. I'm wondering what kind of lengths (and expenses) I should go through to be safe. Are full face helmets really necessary? Leather jackets? Plus, I dont want to wind up looking like a safety freak all bundled up.

GatsbyGirl · Post by **GatsbyGirl** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:44 am

There's no such thing as too safe. Even though your scooter is only 50 cc, think about the injuries you can have on a bicycle (I personally had a wipeout once that drove a barette into my skull and gave me a nasty concussion). 30 mph is more than enough to do major damage. Come to think of it, I was also in a car accident where another car hit me doing 30 mph and they totaled my car. The cops said that if they had been going 35 they would have driven straight through it.

That said, we all have our different comfort levels. I have a leather jacket, helmet (really need to get a full-face one, but they kind of make me claustrophobic just looking at them), always wear jeans and shoes with a good tred that cover and support the ankle. I need to get googles.

Oh, and next to a helmet, absolutely, positively get a good pair of gloves.

I guarantee the first time you have an incident, you will find yourself buying more gear to guard against the future. So, might as well start now.

Now, as for driving, remember that going too slow can be just as dangerous as going too fast.

notselfcreated · Post by **notselfcreated** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:55 am

According to my state's motorcycle manual (I'm studying up for my permit), most accidents happen under 35MPH and less than 10 minutes from home. No such thing as too safe.

Believe me, an armored jacket and full-faced helmet do not look strange on a buddy. Granted, even I care about looking good, so I'm thinking of springing for the armored hoodie from Corazzo.

Also, when I looked at the Buddy forums, I notices that it had exactly 5,000 posts. Awesome! This is the 5001st.

brat · Post by **brat** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:04 am

full face helmets are only needed if you like your face. More thing can get broken in your face and take longer to fix and heal. Also you cna get away with a 3/4 or 1/2 helmet if you are willing to chance your face and are willing to eat bugs and rocks.

FYI I have a full and 1/2 helmets. I take a lot of care (more than normal) when I ride with the 1/2. I also will not do a long ride with the 1/2, ride during rush hour or ride to certain areas of town (due to traffic).

Susan

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:30 am

We can take it as a given that proper gear offers better protection. How much you wear is a personal decision based on how much risk you're willing to take. I have to admit that in the past I haven't adhered to the "All the gear, all the time" axiom. But, as has been noted, a crash at under 40mph can be catastrophic, even fatal. I recently had a first-hand lesson in how bad a crash at seemingly low speed can be and the benefits of wearing proper gear. So I'm now re-evaluating past behaviors, thinking about buying more and better gear, and thankful the weather will be cooling soon so I won't have to find a mesh armored jacket.

I do have issues with comfort, fit and style with a lot of what's on the market. The Corazzo jackets are great; I'd like to see more gear aimed at scooterists who do not want to go out looking like crotch rocketeers or Imperial stormtroopers. I also have yet to try on a full face or modular helmet that fits on my large, odd-shaped head. But, at the very least, my replacement helmet will be a 3/4 with a visor (Nolan N-42 most likely) and I'll continue shopping for the elusive FF to fit my massive cranium.

weebl · Post by **weebl** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:37 pm

I wear the most gear I can without feeling like a kid in a snowsuit when I get off my bike and go into a store. This means ff helmet, gloves, riding jacket, long pants, and sometimes boots if I thought ahead that day. Now that it's getting chilly out, it's really all stuff I would be wearing anyway.

You don't have to spend a fortune to be safer- I got my gloves from the local welding supply shop for $12. I've had my boots for about 8 years now, so they don't owe me any thing. Make sure when choosing boots that you get a pair with a welted sole - they're protect your feet if you drop your bike on yourself.

when I first got my full face helmet I thought it was really, really awkward to wear. I got used to it after about 20 minutes or so.
One thing to consider when you're purchasing a full-face helmet is the weight. If you can, wear it around the showroom for 10 minutes or so while you look at other gear- thats a quick way to find out if it's too heavy for your comfort level.

I agree about corazzo's making folks look like air traffic controllers. Well protected air traffic controllers... but still. The armored hoodies look a lot better than the 5.0'd in my opinion, but they're not as warm so you'd have to wear something under them during the winter.
Red line makes some jackets that I'm saving up for... they're black leather with reflective piping that's creatively hidden in the design of the jacket, but still stands out at night. Some of them even have black reflective piping. They're online at online now, although I generally reccomend trying on jackets before buying them.

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:07 pm

I ride with a full face helmet, a jacket, and gloves.

I don't tend to wear shorts unless I'm at the beach, so I'm pretty much always wearing jeans when I ride -- that's been without exception up to this point.

Sometimes, people ask me why I wear a padded/reinforced jacket when I'm riding a scooter. My reply has been that the ground that I'd hit isn't going to be any softer or gentler because I'm on a scooter instead of a motorcycle. No one has disagreed.

ScooterN2 · Post by **ScooterN2** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:01 pm

I have a motorcycle safety book that reports on a study done in Germany. In the study, the frequency of points of impact on the head were described. The area of most frequenct contact was the front jaw area with about 18% of the hits occuring there. Full face for me. I like my teeth.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:10 pm

josephwtyler wrote:Plus, I dont want to wind up looking like a safety freak all bundled up.

Why not? It's better than road-rash!

Seriously, as others have said, at a minimum you should get a FF helmet and some good gloves. Even if you just lose your balance getting off your parked scooter, your hands will hit the ground, and besides, how will you type up your embarassing story if your hands are all messed up?

A good riding jacket will not only offer protection should you take a spill, but it can also make the ride itself more pleasurable- no flapping in the breeze of loose garments, better protection from the elements, and improved visibility so others are less likely to run you down.

PS- Welcome to ModernBuddy!

deserthealer · Post by **deserthealer** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:24 pm

I'm sure I look like a geek to some but I will not get on my scooter without ff helmet, armored jacket/ pants and boots. I have found that the best thing I wear is a bright yellow zippered safety vest. I notice that people give me more space (they probably assume I'm like Ralph of the Simpsons and just a little "special"). Even when doing 50-55mph on my 18 mile commute to work daily, the "I'm late for work" crowd still gives me space. So if you're anywhere within 150 miles of Scottsdale, Az and you see a very bright yellow vest than that's me

I think when I was 20yrs old i wouldn't have been so careful but with a wife and daughter to support (I'm the "cash-cow") I'm extra cautious.

p.s. I've got a huge life insurance policy and great medical just in case

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:46 pm

I'm pretty much an ATGATT advocate, but I definitely make compromises on the scooter. When I'm on something bigger and faster, I always wear an armored leather jacket, armored textile pants, moto-specific boots and gloves. I have 2 helmets, an EXO-400 full face and Fulmer 3/4. i wear the Scorpion at least 90% of the time, especially now that the Fulmer is getting too big for my now shaved head. Not only is the full face helmet safer, it vents better and it's much quieter.

On the scooter I always wear a helmet, long pants, something with long sleeves, sturdy shoes and gloves. Yeah, there are times when I'll cut corners and run out in a short sleeved shirt, but everything else is non-negotiable. As the weather cools off I'll wear more of my armor on the scooter as well. What really makes me cringe is helmet-less riders in shorts, skirts and flip-flops.

It's already been said but most crashes are low speed. What hasn't been said is something that's a hunch of mine and a lot of other riders. A significant number of crashes are not just low speed, they're "no-speed". Lots of riders, especially inexperienced riders, just fall down or drop their bikes. There are lots of reasons, from your foot slipping on sand to you getting softly rear-ended at a stop sign. But, even stopped, that 4 or 5 foot fall can pretty much destroy a head with no helmet.

dru_ · Post by **dru_** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:52 pm

I try to find a happy medium between comfort and convenience and obsessive (there is no such thing as excessive) safety.

So, for me, it's FF helmet (HJC CL-MAX flip face so I don't have to remove my glasses when I put it on), gloves (Icon Patrol's until it gets truly cold), and an armoured jacket. I now have a couple, each to suit a different need, all are leather. I'm not a big fan of the motorcyle boots as they tend to be very uncomfortable for me, so I've gone to using various forms of over the ankle, reinforced shoes, from dress shoes to baseketball hightops, to hiking boots or steel toed work boots.

Which just leaves pants. I have a pari of armoured jeans, but I don't wear them unless I'm out for a 'ride' on the weekend. During the week, I'm a commuter, and that means work clothes. Fortunately for me, that means my Levi's 501's most of the time, but for those days when I have to go a bit nicer, it's Docker's. Depending upon the weather, I frequently add a pair of running or bicycling tights long tights underneath as this improves both warmth and resist road rash longer than the cotton in the docker's.

Recently, I've decided I want something more protective, so I'm shopping around, particularly looking at the Bohn Adventure Pants, armoured tights that you wear under normal clothing, but I find that they are very bulky for what they are. It would seem that there are less bulky ways of adding armor, so I'm still looking...

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:49 pm

gt1000 wrote:A significant number of crashes are not just low speed, they're "no-speed". Lots of riders, especially inexperienced riders, just fall down or drop their bikes. There are lots of reasons, from your foot slipping on sand to you getting softly rear-ended at a stop sign.

Excellent point, although I would add that being rear-ended at a stop (or even as you are slowing to stop) may be anything but gentle. Recently, though I can't find the link now, there was a motorcyclist rear-ended at a stop by someone going 65 mph. About 10 years ago, I was rear-ended in a small pickup with three cars already stopped in front of me (so it wasn't as if it were a surprise stop). Fortunately I was able to pull off to the median and not be knocked into the cars in front of me, but the back of my truck was accordianed so much that the cab frame and bench seat were bent and the back window popped out. The truck was totaled. About a hundred yards up the road, a lady in a Jag ran into a cement wall while trying to look at our wreck. I was in too much shock to even notice until the ambulance pulled up to her car. I had whip lash and some swollen vertebrae and torn ligaments in my back. I still remember, about two blocks from home, putting on my seatbelt.

Needless to say, because of my accident, I watch my rearview mirror as much as anything to the front or beside me. And I wear all the gear all the time, because scooter or motorcycle, the cars are just as deadly, the drivers just as careless, and the pavement just as hard.

For me all the gear includes a FF helmet, a Corazzo hoodie (I love it because it looks fairly normal and so I will wear it), gloves, boots (though not motorcycle boots), and pants. I wish there were something convenient for commuting to protect the legs, but so far I am still looking for that.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:55 pm

Recently, I've decided I want something more protective, so I'm shopping around, particularly looking at the Bohn Adventure Pants, armoured tights that you wear under normal clothing, but I find that they are very bulky for what they are. It would seem that there are less bulky ways of adding armor, so I'm still looking...

Ikon makes at least two different pairs of jeans. I think one has soft armor and the other is just reinforced, but they'd be better than regular jeans. I like overpants that can be worn over my work clothes. I found a nice system from Olympia that's a mesh outer pant with armor that can be worn in all weather. It also has a removeable thermal, waterproof liner that can be worn with the mesh pant or alone. I've found that one or both of these pants really works well for me in most weather. For really long rides, a dedicated pair of armored tex or leather pants would be better and more comfy, but I'll try to find those on sale during the off-season.

GatsbyGirl · Post by **GatsbyGirl** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:03 pm

gt1000 wrote:A significant number of crashes are not just low speed, they're "no-speed". Lots of riders, especially inexperienced riders, just fall down or drop their bikes. There are lots of reasons, from your foot slipping on sand to you getting softly rear-ended at a stop sign. But, even stopped, that 4 or 5 foot fall can pretty much destroy a head with no helmet.

This is absolutely true. The second week I had my Buddy I was coming out of a parking garage that was on an incline. In a moment of inattention, I lifted my foot before hitting the throttle. That and the degree to which the ground was already tilted was enough to make me lose my balance and fall over. Thanks to my gloves and jeans there was no damage to me or my bike other than a bruise on my thigh, because over 200 pounds falling on you is going to leave some sort of mark.

Physics and gravity are both a bitch and neither will cut you any slack.

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:40 pm

Also, I've never heard someone say after an accident: Man, I wish I'd been wearing less safety gear.

KidDynomite · Post by **KidDynomite** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:43 pm

Are full face helmets really necessary?

Well, let's see.....Last night after work, I took an alternate route home dueto construction. A wrong turn, spot of road gravel, and a head plant into the street later, I got to spend 7 hours at the emergency room. I have plenty of rash, but the worst part is I broke my wrist so bad that I have surgery scheduled for Friday.

The "thank god" part was that although I dont have a full face helmet, I did opt for one with a full face shield. If not, I would have some SERIOUS face rash as well.........If not worse. My face shield is completely scraped up!

Too much pain meds to tell the full story, but suffice it to say, I won't be going without a face shield. It all happened so fast. I'll write further later.

I have a good three months before I'll be riding again.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:07 pm

KidDynomite wrote: I have a good three months before I'll be riding again.

Damn, that sucks! Sorry to hear about your mishap and hope you'll be feeling better soon!

For the rest of you, we don't need any more crash reports for a while! Be careful out there....

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:09 pm

Yeow.

Damn.

Careful out there, everyone.

tinalee123 · Post by **tinalee123** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:15 am

KidDynomite -- so sorry to hear about your crash. It sounds really painful! Hope your surgery goes well. The best to you...

josephwtyler · Post by **josephwtyler** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:30 am

I just wanted to say that I am shocked at the remarkably friendly and responsive crowd here at Modern Buddy. Thanks for all the input. By the way, I bought a full face helmet, with the liftable face, armored nylon jacket, an orange neon vest, and some armored leather gloves. Thanks again.

SteMer · Post by **SteMer** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:38 am

Good choices! I really don't think you can be too safe. Well, on the other hand, maybe sitting at home and NOT riding would be considered too safe. But that's not why you bought a scooter. Ride on!

RisingSunset · Post by **RisingSunset** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:02 am

I'd go to whatever lengths and expenses you can afford to in order to be safe. If you fall onto your chin you will be happy that you had on a full face helmet. I don't wear leather, but I wear an armored jacket for protection. If you are laying in bed for several weeks because of an injury you won't care what people think of you. You will most likely care about how much pain you are in.

lou76 · Post by **lou76** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:44 pm

josephwtyler wrote: Are full face helmets really necessary?

i dont want to be alive and ugly... full face it is...

dahuffy · Post by **dahuffy** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:49 pm

josephwtyler wrote:I just wanted to say that I am shocked at the remarkably friendly and responsive crowd here at Modern Buddy. Thanks for all the input. By the way, I bought a full face helmet, with the liftable face, armored nylon jacket, an orange neon vest, and some armored leather gloves. Thanks again.

Great decision and welcome to the Family

Jeffindenver · Post by **Jeffindenver** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:54 pm

Eyeware always. My half helmet on trips more than a few blocks. Jacket if it's cold.

Ready for my scolding.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:12 am

Jeffindenver wrote:Eyeware always. My half helmet on trips more than a few blocks. Jacket if it's cold.

Ready for my scolding.

I've seen moto forums sink into some real ugliness over ATGATT so I'm not about to scold anyone. You have a drivers' license so you're an adult, that makes you more than capable of making your own choices.

Good luck and ride safely.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:47 am

Hey, KidDynomite...I'm really sorry to hear about your headplant. Glad to hear it wasn't worse!

As for the original question; "how safe is too safe?" Um, I'd have to say that the only way to get TOO safe is to climb into something with four wheels. Ick!

--Keys

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:57 pm

Ha! Nice, Keys.

thepickupbear · Post by **thepickupbear** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:30 pm

As I sit here typing with one hand because of my broken shoulder, bear in mind that sometimes all the safety gear in the world can't beat good judgement. Always excercise caution and good judgement!

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:07 am

thepickupbear wrote:As I sit here typing with one hand because of my broken shoulder, bear in mind that sometimes all the safety gear in the world can't beat good judgement. Always excercise caution and good judgement!

Not another one!

I hope this is not a Buddy-related misadventure...

Whether it was or not, I hope you heal quickly!

thepickupbear · Post by **thepickupbear** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:13 am

Hi VitC--

I posted about it in Ericalm's wreck thread, yeah, unfortunately it was Buddy related. I biffed it in the rain, going down a hill making a sharp right hand turn. Fortunately it was slow speed, barely any damage to the Buddy but I dislocated my shoulder and broke a chip off the bone that they repaired with Surgery. Will probably be 6-8 weeks total off the bike

hermitgirl · Post by **hermitgirl** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:55 am

thepickupbear wrote: Will probably be 6-8 weeks total off the bike

I can't afford 6-8 weeks off the bike- it's my only form of transportation. I commute and hour and a half each day.

Yet another reason to wear my full face and be extra careful. Today I was getting cocky and half climbed a curb going around a speedbump.

Modern Buddy

HOW SAFE IS TOO SAFE?

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